Griffie the puffer keeping in shape

[my2rotties]

My husband snapped these shots this morning at lights on. Griffie does this about three to four times a month and it is not due to any stress... he is not under any stress and nobody was bothering or ever does. I( used to freak out when he did since I have read that puffers blow up due to stress, but this proves otherwise...

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo330/my2rotties/LAte%20March%20shots/photo.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo330/my2rotties/LAte%20March%20shots/photo2.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo330/my2rotties/LAte%20March%20shots/photo3.jpg

[lastlight]

How did you mount that birdsnest colony that has the big eyes?

[my2rotties]

I am not too sure which colony you are mentioning... but it is all reef epoxy and gel glue...or some are mounted by being wedged into the rocks really well.

How did you mount that birdsnest colony that has the big eyes?

[lastlight]

I actually meant your puffer =)

[Delphinus]

He does look like a floating birdnest colony! Hahaha!

Guess he's just checking to make sure he still knows how?

[my2rotties]

ZING!!! Right over my head... need more coffee pronto. He does look like a floating birdsnest colony. Too funny. I love this fish, he is the best. We had a rough time at first but he was well worth the trouble in the end.

I actually meant your puffer =)

[levi1803]

haha, that's awesome!!

[my2rotties]

I LOVE this guy, he is such a blast. He is particularly endearing when he begs against the glass. He will do a "blowfish" on the glass, and then stick his eyeball and part of his face against it, flattening himself, and then swim back and forth like this...he is the first fish to greet me, and follows me around the room begging.

haha, that's awesome!!

[karazy]

hahaha, thats funny.

the reason they puff up when not stressed is usualy because they just feel like stretching.

if you put your arms at your sides for weeks at a time you'd probably wanna stretch too.

[my2rotties]

True enough and he probably ate a snail that I got from Colby yesterday. He bee lined for then and was chewing on one for awhile...When he has a belly ache he normally does the puffing to realign himself inside so he could eat even more.

hahaha, thats funny.

the reason they puff up when not stressed is usualy because they just feel like stretching.

if you put your arms at your sides for weeks at a time you'd probably wanna stretch too.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

^^

Not true. I am not sure where you heard this but there are soooooo many rumors about why puffers puff.

They do often tend to inflate in captivity for little to no reason but thats not to say its stress free. Puffing puts so much strain on their body and does not feel good. Most likely he is indeed scared of something or was startled. Thats not to say its horrible but it does stress them.

Inflating is a defense mechanism and can decrease a puffers immune system and life span. It puts a great deal of pressure on their internal organs. They don't actually "puff" up per say, they actually pump water into their stomach which expands to nearly a hundred times its original volume. This is possible because the puffers stomach is pleated, like a skirt. They have so many pleats in their stomach that you need a microscope to see the smallest ones.

As the puffer fills with water its spine bends into an upside-down U and the liver, intestines, and other internal organs get very tightly squeezed between the fish's backbone and its now huge stomach.

They have two layers of skin too. The outer layer is elastic and stretches when they inflate. The inner layer is fibrous and actually pleated like the stomach. So if they did not have the outer 'stretchy' layer, they would look hilarious (all wrinkled up) once they deflated :D :D :D The outer layer of skin also works to raise the spines of the puffer up...

Another interesting fact about puffers is that their stomachs have lost all digestive function.

A few biologist actually believe Puffers have evolved from Triggerfish who can do the same 'pumping' of water with their stomachs. But if you watch triggers do it, they simply pump water in a bit (not to the stomach) and then blow it right back out to move sand around and flip urchins over. But its the same action.

Anyways, a bunch of random stuff here but the bottom line is that they do not have 'fun' puffing up and its certainly NOT stretching.

You say try keeping your arms at your side for a few weeks and then see if you want to stretch--try this instead. You feel normal and loose but then you suddenly get startled and react by filling with air like a balloon as your internal organs squish up into a fraction of the area they usually occupy and press against your spine which is now also bending with great strain...I bet you will like to deflate as quick as possible and never want to inflate again ;) They are not stiff and need to stretch. In fact, after inflating I bet they do not feel too well. There is just so much pressure put on their body when inflated. Their skin stretches so much that the collagen fibers are stressed directly and the skin becomes stiff.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

This was one of mine just over a year back after he was bitten by another puffers while eating. Check out the strain on that skin!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00683.jpg

[my2rotties]

I can honestly say that Griffie is not at all stressed when he blows himself up. I also read that puffers do this in the wild to make sure everything is working correctly. This fish does not get scared of anything and swims into my hand for belly rubs. I cannot say he looks bothered by blowing up unless a powerhead kicks on while he is inflated...

I don't think he does it for fun, but I do think he does it because he can. When he is done he comes up to us and starts doing blowfishes on the glass, begging for a treat. NO fish in my tank has ever bothered him or ever will. When we turn the lights on he is the first one out begging. Nothing scares him at all.

I do at times think he blows up to align whatever he should not have eaten... for example snails. He will usually just suck them up and spin them to find soft spots... then spits them out again. I have never seen him find one with a soft spot and eat it, but I am sure it has happened.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I can honestly say that Griffie is not at all stressed when he blows himself up. I also read that puffers do this in the wild to make sure everything is working correctly. This fish does not get scared of anything and swims into my hand for belly rubs. I cannot say he looks bothered by blowing up unless a powerhead kicks on while he is inflated...

I don't think he does it for fun, but I do think he does it because he can. When he is done he comes up to us and starts doing blowfishes on the glass, begging for a treat. NO fish in my tank has ever bothered him or ever will. When we turn the lights on he is the first one out begging. Nothing scares him at all.

I do at times think he blows up to align whatever he should not have eaten... for example snails. He will usually just suck them up and spin them to find soft spots... then spits them out again. I have never seen him find one with a soft spot and eat it, but I am sure it has happened.


I wrote out a long response but its not fair to start a debate in your picture thread about why puffers puff. I would stop reading the source that says they do it to make sure 'everything is working properly' though.

You know best.

[my2rotties]

It's all good, he is my fish and I know him very well. I think it all depends on personality and such, Griffie pitched a fit at me for ignoring his begging once and blew himself up (that sounds funny). I dropped in his cube and he deflated right away. He still does it to this day if I am not feeding him fast enough since he knows it gets results. He probably did it this morning to my husband since he was hungry and Frank was not feeding him I (my job and I was not out of bed yet). Perhaps I taught him a bad habit with positive reinforcement... He blows himself up and I give him food. People train animlas with this method all the time...

I wrote out a long response but its not fair to start a debate in your picture thread about why puffers puff. I would stop reading the source that says they do it to make sure 'everything is working properly' though.

You know best.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

And now we get into the anthropomorphism...lets just enjoy the pics I guess. Hope he stops his monthly puffing for you soon though.

EDIT: i read that again and it sounds bad. I don't mean it in a negative way but sometimes we have to separate what we feel and what is fact. Its easy to get attached to fish and make yourself believe they have feelings and personality when in fact they have behavioral instincts. It does vary a bit from individual fish to fish (of the same species) but not much. Most all puffers act the same and are thought to have 'loads of personaility' which in fact is just how they are. Even in the wild I was able to pet them. They paced in the wild too up and down, up and down the poles at piers...but we like to think they are bored if they do this.

Fish like Puffers have defense mechanisms for a reason and use them for the most part involuntarily. Its not like they choose to do stretch or make sure they can. Its stress.

Anyways, I really apologize for being a bit off topic but the fact is that its not good for them to puff and we want our fish to live long. Just don't want people to read this and think they are doing it for 'fun'.

[fishoholic]

^^

Not true. I am not sure where you heard this but there are soooooo many rumors about why puffers puff.

They do often tend to inflate in captivity for little to no reason but thats not to say its stress free. Puffing puts so much strain on their body and does not feel good. Most likely he is indeed scared of something or was startled. Thats not to say its horrible but it does stress them.

Inflating is a defense mechanism and can decrease a puffers immune system and life span. It puts a great deal of pressure on their internal organs. They don't actually "puff" up per say, they actually pump water into their stomach which expands to nearly a hundred times its original volume. This is possible because the puffers stomach is pleated, like a skirt. They have so many pleats in their stomach that you need a microscope to see the smallest ones.

As the puffer fills with water its spine bends into an upside-down U and the liver, intestines, and other internal organs get very tightly squeezed between the fish's backbone and its now huge stomach.

They have two layers of skin too. The outer layer is elastic and stretches when they inflate. The inner layer is fibrous and actually pleated like the stomach. So if they did not have the outer 'stretchy' layer, they would look hilarious (all wrinkled up) once they deflated :D :D :D The outer layer of skin also works to raise the spines of the puffer up...

Another interesting fact about puffers is that their stomachs have lost all digestive function.

A few biologist actually believe Puffers have evolved from Triggerfish who can do the same 'pumping' of water with their stomachs. But if you watch triggers do it, they simply pump water in a bit (not to the stomach) and then blow it right back out to move sand around and flip urchins over. But its the same action.

Anyways, a bunch of random stuff here but the bottom line is that they do not have 'fun' puffing up and its certainly NOT stretching.

You say try keeping your arms at your side for a few weeks and then see if you want to stretch--try this instead. You feel normal and loose but then you suddenly get startled and react by filling with air like a balloon as your internal organs squish up into a fraction of the area they usually occupy and press against your spine which is now also bending with great strain...I bet you will like to deflate as quick as possible and never want to inflate again ;) They are not stiff and need to stretch. In fact, after inflating I bet they do not feel too well. There is just so much pressure put on their body when inflated. Their skin stretches so much that the collagen fibers are stressed directly and the skin becomes stiff.

GSP what you're saying is what I have always understood about puffers puffing. Mostly that they only do it if something is stressing them (even if nothing seems to be stressing them, something unknown is, otherwise they wouldn't puff, at least that's what I've been told and what I have read about) and that the stress of puffing does shorten their lifespan.

Some interesting puffer links if anyone is interested.

http://biomechanics.bio.uci.edu/_html/nh_biomech/pufferfish/puffer.htm

http://www.pufferfish.net/

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/puffcareinfo.htm

[SeaShell]

Those are great pictures! I don't even care WHY he's puffing.... it's cool and it sounds like he's a real card. :) Enjoy him.... he's a keeper!

[karazy]

This was one of mine just over a year back after he was bitten by another puffers while eating. Check out the strain on that skin!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00683.jpg

Isnt that the EXACT same picture you have on a thread thats basicaly the same as this one,
saying your puffer puffs up for food and its hilarious? So hilarious you were laughing so hard that you were almost crying?

link below:
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37420

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Isnt that the EXACT same picture you have on a thread thats basicaly the same as this one,
saying your puffer puffs up for food and its hilarious? So hilarious you were laughing so hard that you were almost crying?

link below:
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37420

Yup and since then I have learned a lot and know better. Actually I told my brother that story and he got pretty mad as he knew a lot more about puffers than I did at the time. I think this picture was actually from after he was bit on the tail though. Perhaps I have the two mixed up, don't remember anymore. But the point is that mine was puffing sometimes for food which is a sign of stress.

This is why I said a lot of myths about why they puff up are out there and unfortunately not true. Like stretching. A year and a half ago I would have believed that. I have kept puffers for 12 years now, 6 years saltwater and never knew these things until I was told. I tried to pass on the knowledge and basically got the 'doesn't apply to my puffer, hes just got personality' answer. No problem...I am learning (maybe too slowly) to just keep my mouth shut and not bother giving advice unless its asked for around here.

[my2rotties]

But in the picture you mentioned he puffed up for food, and then in this post you said he was bitten by another puffer. If you were standing right there laughing, would you not have seen the bite happen and know why he puffed up?

Yup and since then I have learned a lot and know better.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

But in the picture you mentioned he puffed up for food, and then in this post you said he was bitten by another puffer. If you were standing right there laughing, would you not have seen the bite happen and know why he puffed up?

No I said I have a few pictures from a year and a half ago and don't know which one is which anymore. I have one from after he was bitten and one from the food incident. Actually I have a third from even before that and I have no idea why he was puffed. Unfortunately he used to puff a lot and only lived two years before suddenly dying.

[my2rotties]

Well I can honestly say I have provided Grffie with all that I possibly can give him. I have went through hell with this fish, and am very happy to have him with and he will always be with me for the rest of his life.

There is nothing I can do more I possibly do for him, and I know in my heart I have done more then anyone else would do. I hope he has a long and happy life for however log it might be. As sad as I would be to lose him, I will be in peace with myself knowing he had a wonderful and was the king of my tank.

I didn't post pictures to have a thread about puffing being bad for him. He just does it and my friend at the LFS says it is very normal and not to worry about it. This is not the store I bought him at obviously. I do not see anything stressing him out, he eats well, he is ich and disease free and his eyes are clear and bright... I can see him hunting my reef now after the lights are out, but he will have his face sucked against the glass when I come down in the morning.

I have done all I could and know I did and I am not going to constantly worry about his puffing. He does what he needs to do and I see no stress in him afterwards. Their skin is make to do this and I am not about to worry about him now... He is happy so I am happy.

No I said I have a few pictures from a year and a half ago and don't know which one is which anymore. I have one from after he was bitten and one from the food incident. Actually I have a third from even before that and I have no idea why he was puffed. Unfortunately he used to puff a lot and only lived two years before suddenly dying.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well I can honestly say I have provided Grffie with all that I possibly can give him. I have went through hell with this fish, and am very happy to have him with and he will always be with me for the rest of his life.

There is nothing I can do more I possibly do for him, and I know in my heart I have done more then anyone else would do. I hope he has a long and happy life for however log it might be. As sad as I would be to lose him, I will be in peace with myself knowing he had a wonderful and was the king of my tank.

I didn't post pictures to have a thread about puffing being bad for him. He just does it and my friend at the LFS says it is very normal and not to worry about it. This is not the store I bought him at obviously. I do not see anything stressing him out, he eats well, he is ich and disease free and his eyes are clear and bright... I can see him hunting my reef now after the lights are out, but he will have his face sucked against the glass when I come down in the morning.

I have done all I could and know I did and I am not going to constantly worry about his puffing. He does what he needs to do and I see no stress in him afterwards. Their skin is make to do this and I am not about to worry about him now... He is happy so I am happy.

Ugh...yes I already said I apologize this became a debate. I said its not personal and I wouldn't worry about your puffer. I also just decided (and regret) to post some info about why they puff and how hard it on them. Yes their skin has evolved to handle it, doesn't mean its good. As you see from that old post, I used to think it was hilarious. I know how hard it on them now and feel terrible I ever felt it was so funny. I have learned a lot since then and thought I would pass it along. It wasn't even directed at you specifically, just a general idea of why they puff and how harsh it is when they do.

You get so incredibly defensive and I knew better (don't mean that in a bad way other than to myself). I just wish you understood why I posted and you would not have felt the need to defend anything. I think you know I feel you have given an incredible home to this puffer as I have told you this countless times and even encouraged you not to get rid of him when you thought about it because you were not going to find a home as good.

Anyways, back on topic. Great pictures and as I said before, theres not much you can do and I wouldn't worry about his puffing up.

[Snaz]

I just wanted to chime in here about defensive responses and stress. Many animals have many different response mechanisms to stress all in an effort to improve survivability; camoflauge, ink-jets, tails that fall off or just run like hell etc. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any defensive response of any creature that would put that creature in further harms way, except bee stings but that is whole hive organism thing.

To say a defensive response contributes to that creature's demise does not make sense to me on an evolutionary scale. Can anyone think of any examples where a defensive response actually does the organism harm?

I understand that puffing is probably stressful and if a puffer was puffing too much and or constantly inflated it's not going to do well but I expect whatever condition is eliciting the defensive response is more harmful than the actual response.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I just wanted to chime in here about defensive responses and stress. Many animals have many different response mechanisms to stress all in an effort to improve survivability; camoflauge, ink-jets, tails that fall off or just run like hell etc. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any defensive response of any creature that would put that creature in further harms way, except bee stings but that is whole hive organism thing.

To say a defensive response contributes to that creature's demise does not make sense to me on an evolutionary scale. Can anyone think of any examples where a defensive response actually does the organism harm?

I understand that puffing is probably stressful and if a puffer was puffing too much and or constantly inflated it's not going to do well but I expect whatever condition is eliciting the defensive response is more harmful than the actual response.

There is a horned lizard that uses its horns when attacked to put pressure on its sinus cavities which ends up exploding its own eyes as a defensive response. There are ants that explode. There is also some species of hairy frog that breaks it bones to extend claws out from under its skin. Scientists are not sure though if they can ever get them back in.

Anyways, there are more Im sure but thats some I have heard or read about in the past. Many insects kill themselves for the good of the colony but that doesn't really count...so I guess the ants don't count :)

You can just do a simple google search about puffers defense mechanisms and get all the info you need about what it does to shorten their life. Just because they have evolved to be able to do it doesn't mean its good for them. Take the info how you want. If you don't believe it, you don't believe it...

Man, why do I bother to post stuff like this??? Need to remember to stay out of these things ;)

The intentions really were good but somehow it was all taken as some kind of attack and false information. Oh well.

[Snaz]

GSP I think all of your information is great, I do not feel attacked and I doubt my2rotties feels attacked either.

My post was really an uneducated evolutionary observation and reading it again and your examples illustrate that yes some defensive responses can cause harm to the organism.


Man, why do I bother to post stuff like this??? Need to remember to stay out of these things ;)

The intentions really were good but somehow it was all taken as some kind of attack and false information. Oh well.

[my2rotties]

I do not feel attacked at all, but rather tired of every single post I make turning into something other then its intention. I posted these pictures because they are quite neat and nothing was done to make him do it... it is just Griffie being a puffer. I know many people would love to have puffers and cannot for obvious reasons... so I thought it would be fun to share mine.

I tend to agree with Snaz's observation on this and I don't know how long puffers live in the wild or the aquarium. I guess I will see what happens with my guy. I am very proud of him and how far we have come since he came home with me.

I do think all puffers do puff up and perhaps since they are night fish we don't typically see it happen.

[my2rotties]

This what what Griffie had to say about this thread this morning... then he ate his breakfast and was back to doing what he does...

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo330/my2rotties/Griffie/griff003.jpg

[fishoholic]

I do think all puffers do puff up and perhaps since they are night fish we don't typically see it happen.

Not so sure about that, as far as I'm aware Simon never puffed. He came close when it came to feeding time but I always backed away quickly from the tank in order to stop him from getting to excited and puffing.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

This what what Griffie had to say about this thread this morning... then he ate his breakfast and was back to doing what he does...

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo330/my2rotties/Griffie/griff003.jpg

Good to see he is nice and happy this morning :razz:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I do not feel attacked at all, but rather tired of every single post I make turning into something other then its intention. I posted these pictures because they are quite neat and nothing was done to make him do it... it is just Griffie being a puffer. I know many people would love to have puffers and cannot for obvious reasons... so I thought it would be fun to share mine.

I tend to agree with Snaz's observation on this and I don't know how long puffers live in the wild or the aquarium. I guess I will see what happens with my guy. I am very proud of him and how far we have come since he came home with me.

I do think all puffers do puff up and perhaps since they are night fish we don't typically see it happen.

Hey so then you know how I felt when you persisted in my copperband thread :mrgreen: after I asked to please stay on the subject I hoped to stay on. That didn't last though as you and one other wanted to make it a cyanide/bacteria.ect. debate.

I think you said (paraphrased) that I had no say in what was discussed because your opinion was contrary to mine and you had every right to post your opinion. Along those lines anyways. Something about how I was hiding from the truth...I will look it up if you like. But you may remember better than I.

I agree, you did. Just as I gave facts about puffers here. It wasn't even an opinion in this case. My first post was NOT personal and actually not even directed at you. Someone gave false info and I stated a few facts. That was it. If the 'hes just stretching' comment was never made, then I would not have said anything more than nice photos. Actually I wouldn't have posted. Then after that my credibility was questioned and thats fair enough but my thread was from a year and a half ago before I knew any better. Although that calling out (not by you) made it personal.

[Aquattro]

Hey so then you know how I felt when you persisted in my copperband thread

you don't quit, do you?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

you don't quit, do you?

I sent you a PM about that. It has to work both ways man.

Anyways, I won't say another word here. People can do their own research about why these wonderful creatures use their defense mechanisms and how it effects them long term.

[my2rotties]

I go for a hike and come back to a war zone:sad:

Today Griffie came for a belly rub which he hardly ever does these days. When I gave him one he started upchucking something... was fine... came for a bely rub, and started upchucking...

Went to his cave puffed up, came back out and upchucked a snail... or what was left of the shell he did not crush when he ate it...

It has happened before and will happen again. They are known to eat things like this and I guess he did not crush it enough this time or the times before it.

Griffie will be just fine... now can we all get along?

[fishytime]

*shakes his head*

[Skimmerking]

WOW, Diana that is cool to see I had a Koran Angel what would swim upside down to look for food, not like yours that would puff and a lavender tang that would let me scratch his head along with my foxface that would eat out of my hand...

its a shame that threads like this go for a mess. people just want to post on what happens, it happened with myself, about my thoughts about certain things that happened with my overseas pay. I guess its hard to express your self on these boards. and they always get into a flame war.....

any ways, I think that is what PM's are for to express your self speak what you want to say in good taste..

keep the pics coming, I always thought that puffers puffed for something to do... oh well

[my2rotties]

I am so glad to see you here!!! I thought you were banned...

What is really funny about all of this is the busted up snail managed to dig himself into the sand after Griffie bounced it off of the glass in the direction on my concerned face... I can still hear the sound of the shell bouncing off the glass.

I just saw him try pull a larger snail off my rockwall just now... he never learns:wink::wink:

The most I can hope for at this point is that he will always be able to upchuck escargot...

WOW, Diana that is cool to see I had a Koran Angel what would swim upside down to look for food, not like yours that would puff and a lavender tang that would let me scratch his head along with my foxface that would eat out of my hand...

its a shame that threads like this go for a mess. people just want to post on what happens, it happened with myself, about my thoughts about certain things that happened with my overseas pay. I guess its hard to express your self on these boards. and they always get into a flame war.....

any ways, I think that is what PM's are for to express your self speak what you want to say in good taste..

keep the pics coming, I always thought that puffers puffed for something to do... oh well

[Skimmerking]

eheh i didnt think that he would eat snails funny..... griffie must be a total hambone. Man i love this hobby was banned and now im back i let my silly side pop out in which was not called for...

[SeaShell]

The most I can hope for at this point is that he will always be able to upchuck escargot...

I always upchuck escargot.......

[banditpowdercoat]

MMmmm Escargot.

[my2rotties]

Snails... crunchy on the outside and juicy on the inside:lol:

eheh i didnt think that he would eat snails funny..... griffie must be a total hambone. Man i love this hobby was banned and now im back i let my silly side pop out in which was not called for...

[fishoholic]

Snails... crunchy on the outside and juicy on the inside:lol:

Ok, now I think this thread has gone to far! j/k :lol: Thanks for the visual YUCK! :lol:

[my2rotties]

They must have some sort of appeal to make him eat them... At least I didn't have to pound a fart out of him this time... I know you think I joke...:surprise:

Ok, now I think this thread has gone to far! j/k :lol: Thanks for the visual YUCK! :lol: