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GreenSpottedPuffer
04-05-2009, 01:23 AM
Here is a video with some footage of dynamite fishing and even a picture or two of cyanide fishing (1:12). Just thought since every time the subject comes up and literature is not enough to convince people it happens that some images might work. I was at a LFS today and overheard someone talking about how cyanide fishing was a myth...

"Recent studies have shown that the combination of cyanide use and stress of post capture handling results in mortality of up to 75% of the organisms within less than 48 hours of capture. With such high mortality numbers, a greater number of fish must be caught in order to supplement post catch death.

Colourful, particularly eccentric, and therefore rare coral fish are packed into plastic bags; up to two thirds of these fish die during transport. They are mostly sold to aquariums in the US, Europe and Asia. In the 1990s 80% of the western trade in coral fishes alone came from the island of Palawan in the Philippines. Estimates suggest 70 to 90% of aquarium fish exported from the Philippines are caught with cyanide.cite journal|author=McManus, J. W., Reyes, R.B., and Nanola, C.L.|year=1997| title=Effects of some destructive fishing practices on coral cover and potential rates of recovery|journal=Environmental Management| volume=21|issue=1|pages=69–78| doi=10.1007/s002679900006] Due to the post capture handling stress and the effects of the cyanide, fish are bound to have a shorter life span than usual in our aquariums. According to an interview with experienced aquarium owners, they were willing to pay more for net-caught fish because of the higher survival rate. (50% on Canreef based on the poll) cite web | title=A glance at the marine aquarium fish trade in Hong Kong. | work=Tsang, A. | url=http://www.hku.hk/ecology/porcupine/por24/24-vert-fish.htm | accessdate=May 27 | accessyear=2005] They also said they would not trust an eco-labelling system, which can be misleading."


There is an even better video out there somewhere showing footage of cyanide fishing but I can't find it anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2HdhcpRN4&feature=related

Dynamite fishing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP2cc1y6dp8&feature=related



Good article explaining cyanide fishing (more about fish for food but same principle) :

http://www.cdnn.info/news/article/a030429.html

http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/OCEAN_PLANET/HTML/peril_bombs.html


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/05/30/MN232485.DTL

http://www.albionmonitor.com/9608a/dynamitefish.html

Check out the image on Wiki:

Those are some huge dead fish and very damaged corals :( Wonder how many stunned fish they managed to collect and how many survived until someones aquarium?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_fishing

More than 150,000 kg of cyanide is believed to be used in the Philippines annually by the aquarium trade and more than a million kg have been used since the 1960’scite journal| author=Pratt, V.R.|year=1996|title=The growing threat of cyanide fishing in the Asia Pacific Region and the emerging strategies to combat it.| journal=Coastal Management in Tropical Asia| volume=5|pages=9–11] cite journal| author=Barber, C.V., Pratt, R.V.|year=1998| title=Poison and profits: cyanide fishing in the Indo-Pacific|journal=Environment| volume=40| pages=5–34]


:(

GreenSpottedPuffer
04-05-2009, 01:32 AM
I don't bring this up to start an argument or make people feel guilty for keeping fish but only because it drives me nuts that people still deny it happens. Especially on here.

Scavenger
04-05-2009, 01:45 AM
It is truly sad what's happening to the natural world, however, we can't go pointing fingers and telling other countries they are wrong unless we sort out the mess in our own backyard first. Again, truly sad.

Myka
04-05-2009, 02:10 AM
it drives me nuts that people still deny it happens. Especially on here.

I agree 100%. Thanks for taking the time to post this. :)

jsmth321
04-05-2009, 02:15 AM
This hobby is going to have some big changes in my opinion over the decade or 2, and it wont be for the better if we continue the trend we are now.

One thing we consumers can do is to send a message to stores that we will not buy wild caught fish when captive bred are available even if it costs a few dollars more.

False and True percs are 2 species that I don't even think should be taken from the wild at all anymore but some just wont spend the extra money for a captive bred fish.

fishoholic
04-05-2009, 04:30 AM
:sad: Here's another good related video that explains it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYKLHCyBgIk&feature=related

spoot
04-05-2009, 05:07 AM
Where is Cites when you need them? There ought to be better enforcement into matters like these; especially on products/livestock coming into North America and Europe.

randallino
04-05-2009, 06:40 AM
+1

blueyota
04-05-2009, 07:08 AM
WOW!!!!!!...i never saw anything like that before although iv heard of it ...and hope it comes to stop...even if it means the hobby has to come to an end...myself i think we as people with the power we have together or as a singles we can totally stop this .....or help replace some of it by growing frags in our tanks then taking them and putting them back into our delicate reefs or raising what fish we can and setting the back ....i am really sad to see all this terror we are doing to our oceans we really need to take a few steps back and take a look at the big picture... sorry for the rant ....just needed to say something....

TheRealBigAL
04-05-2009, 09:00 AM
We should go find all those dynamite/cyanide fisherman and give em a good canadian Ass Woopin.

Its terrible that nothing in the Philippines is protected. The reefs are not going to last much longer like that :sad:

Leah
04-05-2009, 10:46 AM
What I do not understand is if 75% die off within 48 hrs. Than what are they selling?
How are they making any money this way? I can not seem to understand why then
this would be profitable. If they see this why would they continue. I can not see the
logic in this. Sorry this really confuses me! I agree this is really sad.

cav~firez22
04-05-2009, 02:57 PM
Cites from the Phillipines, does not take much to get, considering that when the collector/supplier applys for the Cites, they slip a little cash in as a bribe, and they get their Cites.

All the beautiful fish that we like come from 3rd world countries (except Hawaii). and in these countrys, the "laws" are more catering to the money.

Its quite unfortunat, but, unless we ALL stop buying fish (not gonna happen here) then there will still be a demand for the product.

On a side note, i have not seen any videos that look like they are recent, ie. later than the 80s, unless their technoloy is crap over there.

just my 2 cents.


We should go find all those dynamite/cyanide fisherman and give em a good canadian Ass Woopin.

Its terrible that nothing in the Philippines is protected. The reefs are not going to last much longer like that

Haha, even better would be to make them injest it all. and watch. :)

Could be fun!.

untamed
04-05-2009, 04:23 PM
What I do not understand is if 75% die off within 48 hrs. Than what are they selling?
How are they making any money this way? I can not seem to understand why then
this would be profitable. If they see this why would they continue. I can not see the
logic in this. Sorry this really confuses me! I agree this is really sad.

It just takes too long to catch fish any other way. The sad fact is that this IS efficient, even if the mortality is 75% or more.

Sadly, I don't think that reducing wastefulness is really going to solve anything in the long term. Eventually, there are just so many people on this planet that there just isn't going to be enough of anything.

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

GreenSpottedPuffer
04-05-2009, 05:11 PM
It just takes too long to catch fish any other way. The sad fact is that this IS efficient, even if the mortality is 75% or more.

Sadly, I don't think that reducing wastefulness is really going to solve anything in the long term. Eventually, there are just so many people on this planet that there just isn't going to be enough of anything.

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

I agree 100%.

GreenSpottedPuffer
04-05-2009, 10:27 PM
Cites from the Phillipines, does not take much to get, considering that when the collector/supplier applys for the Cites, they slip a little cash in as a bribe, and they get their Cites.

All the beautiful fish that we like come from 3rd world countries (except Hawaii). and in these countrys, the "laws" are more catering to the money.

Its quite unfortunat, but, unless we ALL stop buying fish (not gonna happen here) then there will still be a demand for the product.

On a side note, i have not seen any videos that look like they are recent, ie. later than the 80s, unless their technoloy is crap over there.

just my 2 cents.




Haha, even better would be to make them injest it all. and watch. :)

Could be fun!.

Most are from the 90's. I knew that when I posted because as I said this wasn't to debate anything. Yes things are better than the 90's and especially the 80's. I know that but that doesn't mean it doesn't still happen.

Like I said, this wasn't to 'start anything' or put the hobby down. It was all just about awareness.

A day after posting, I wish I wouldn't have. I know better than to post stuff like this here but I was so frustrated after hearing what an employee was telling customers when the customer asked if any of their fish were caught with cyanide..."thats a myth and doesn't happen". I was also kind of bored at the time, so I posted. Again...should post stuff like this here :D

This hobby actually is NOT EVEN CLOSE to being as destructive as fishing for food, farming and chemical dumping is to the oceans. The reefs in Australia are going fast because of farming. The reefs in the Caribbean are being decimated by raw sewage. The reefs here in Canada are destroyed by overfishing and trawling...we like to blame seals for our overfishing though ;)

So the hobby is not even close to being the major problem but was is a concern is how fast fishes are declining. The hobby needs to eventually become self sustainable through breeding or it will no longer exist. Someone told me today about how they had been to Hawaii twice diving and never seen a Yellow Tang.

The US last week started a bill that would severely limit importation of commercial fishes. I am all for it because this would mean breeding would have to be looked at. Yellow Tangs have been bred already (although not very successfully) so it can be done. The problem is that right now there is absolutely no reason to put the money into it.

Just want to make this clear before people start the big debate. The Philippines are starting to do a great job of policing the cyanide fishers and actually put them in jail but for hobbyists just deny it happens is so ridiculous.

RuGlu6
04-05-2009, 10:58 PM
How about seals being killed in Canada, also how about cows being slaughtered, chickens, turkeys, lamb etc. How about them, they suffer as much as anything alive.

How about countries like Usa and Canada making War and killing hundreds per day?

people are knee deep in blood...


Humanity has a long way to go even to be called humans, we need to grow and we need to wake up.

jsmth321
04-05-2009, 11:14 PM
How about seals being killed in Canada, also how about cows being slaughtered, chickens, turkeys, lamb etc. How about them, they suffer as much as anything alive.

How about countries like Usa and Canada making War and killing hundreds per day?

people are knee deep in blood...


Humanity has a long way to go even to be called humans, we need to grow and we need to wake up.

Not going to the seal thing but people need to eat, so there will always be animals killed for this purpose, but this does not mean we as humans have to go out and destroy the environment in the process of our daily living.

Remember there is no need to keep fish in a glass box, we do it for our pleasure and nothing else and in the process we should be taking steps to limit loss as best we can and leave the reefs the same way they are found.

Everything in the ocean is connected to one another and once one is removed it starts a domino effect.

Take the Chinook Salmon declines of recent years and Orca's, there is some evidence that whales are not getting enough to eat because of this decline and even though many like to blame the whales for declines in fish stocks, it us humans who have been fishing various species for food at rates that are not sustainable.

Everything in the ecosystem is connect to one another and once one is removed like I said, a domino effect.

GreenSpottedPuffer
04-05-2009, 11:24 PM
How about seals being killed in Canada, also how about cows being slaughtered, chickens, turkeys, lamb etc. How about them, they suffer as much as anything alive.

How about countries like Usa and Canada making War and killing hundreds per day?

people are knee deep in blood...


Humanity has a long way to go even to be called humans, we need to grow and we need to wake up.

Well yeah...but I don't think any of that fits into the 'Marine Fish' section of Canreef. Lets please keep this on topic.

phillybean
04-12-2009, 02:54 AM
It's the giant circle of life that humans have f-ed up!

Too many whales killed in the 1800 and early 1900's = lower population = More Seals = Less Fish. Solution? Kill the seals with clubs!

The fact of the matter is that our hobby has one of the least impacts of the marine problems. Overfishing for food and pollution take more fish and corals out of the reef than what collection for the hobby even comes close too. Quite frankly, within the next 20 years, we'll be looking to breed fish not for the hobby, but to re-introduce them into the wild.

chandigz
04-12-2009, 04:52 AM
Heres what one of the exporters has to say. I've always been happy with their fish.
http://www.marinefauna-cebu.com/cyn.html

BlueAbyss
04-14-2009, 07:49 PM
It is truly sad what's happening to the natural world, however, we can't go pointing fingers and telling other countries they are wrong unless we sort out the mess in our own backyard first. Again, truly sad.

+1000! Just like people sending money to other places when there are starving / homeless kids here in Canada.

Where is Cites when you need them? There ought to be better enforcement into matters like these; especially on products/livestock coming into North America and Europe.

CITES only controls trade on threatened and endangered species, from what I remember. Though I personally consider anything that lives in the ocean to be threatened...

What I do not understand is if 75% die off within 48 hrs. Than what are they selling?
How are they making any money this way? I can not seem to understand why then
this would be profitable. If they see this why would they continue. I can not see the
logic in this. Sorry this really confuses me! I agree this is really sad.

They are selling the other 10 percent that actually make it to a store. For a ridiculous price, considering it costs very little to actually catch the fish by these methods. I suppose you are paying for them to hold it for 48 hours to make sure it actually survives, and the shipping. And the 100 percent markup at the LFS.

I can't wait to open my restaurant that sells only rare and endangered dishes. Manatee steak, anyone? I'll have mine medium-rare...

fiorano
04-15-2009, 12:40 AM
i did a paper for an environmental science class on reef ecosystems in indonesia. Cyanide fishing and dynamite fishing cause a ridiculous amiount of damage and the profits outweigh the fines received from actually doing the deed... i think it is just absurd that this is not policed more effectively

Tarolisol
04-15-2009, 11:40 PM
I just read an article today in the sun that states there are over 2.5 million fisherman in the philipeans(sp?) and indonesia thats alot of fish being taken out of the water for various reasons. I do have to agree if the home aquarium keeper is the cause of most of the problems with fishing that I would gladly sacrifice my hobby to ensure the survival of the oceans, but there is alot more to it then that.

Puff
04-24-2009, 06:49 PM
i work in thailand most summers and we have a very nice tank in the office. i went to the supplier one day and had a good ole' b***h out. the guy was putting the completely wrong fish and corals in the tank, and things were suffering. the next day the tank had fewer, and better suited inhabitants. it's a rougly 30-40 gallon tank, and this idiot had about 5 clownfish, a mandarin, a koran angel, and a bunch of other fish. i walked in after not being in the office for a year and freaked out.

then i went down to the big fish (livestock) market with our office manager. she LOVES marine fish and has a tank of her own. we went into one store and she literally got chased out. apparently most fish sellers in the market think she works for the Wildlife department, as she always goes in and bitches people out, and one time the wildlife officers came in and shut a place down a few hours after she left (she hadnt called), but she was angry because she saw some extremely rare corals and fish jammed into a tank.

honestly though...things are just done differently out there. many people are just struggling to survive, and view the ocean as an easy thing to rape and pillage.

living in north america, many of us dont realize how hard it is to make a living in some of these countries. obviously i dont agree with their methods, and i absolutely hate it, but at the same time they are just trying to live. unfortunately it's unavoidable, as they will always need to eat, and the ocean will always be in their backyard.