Need help keeping new fish alive.

[hummer]

Not sure why but all the new fish I buy die within 3-4 weeks. I've tested the water and nothing seems wrong. I acclimate new fish using the guidelines on the JL site. I have a 90Gal tank w/ 33Gal sump holding 4 clowns, 1 blue damsel, 2 cardinals and 1 blue tang. The blue tang is about 3-4". The latest fish that died was a 3" salfin tang and a 2" rabbitfish. Nothing seems to bother the old fish though. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

[dkcrx]

are the new arivals getting enough to eat? common problem with new fish, they don't know the feeding drill and can't compete with the established livestock. Other idea, are the new ones getting picked on?

[Myka]

Your tank is not big enough to have more than one Tang, especially not a Sailfin Tang. Sailfins grow very big very fast, and need a lot of swimming space. They need a 200g tank.

Have the new fish been eating? Are they getting picked on? Do they just hide? 3-4 weeks sounds more like it is a problem with the fish like internal parasites or collection with cyanide or something like that. How many fish have you lost like this? What other types of fish?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Can we get a bit more info on the system?

How much LR? Skimmer? Water parameters?

Is there or has been ich in the tank?

As much of the history of the tank that you can honestly think of. Something may come up...otherwise it could be a million different things.

It can be so hard to figure these kinds of sudden deaths out without more info.

[hummer]

Thanks for the replies. I watch them eat all the time and they seem to be getting enough food. They are a lot faster than the other fish. I don't see anyone pick on them. They are bigger than all the other fish except the blue tang which is about the same size.
The blue tang was the last fish I got that has survived. I got him 3 years ago. 9 months ago I bought a new 90Gal w/ 33Gal sump. Previously i had a 77Gal.
Live Rock: 50-60lbs.
Skimmer: Euro-Reef RS100
Phosban reactor with carbon.
The system never had Ick or any other disease. Except the blue tang has lateral line.
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.05
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Calcium: 400
Magnesium: 1305
Alkalinity: 177
KH: 4.9
Salinity: 1.025
Temp: 25-26 celcius
Fish that have died in the last 3 years within 1 month of getting them (purchased from 3 different fish stores):
2 watchman golby, 5 blue/green chromis, 3 firefish, blenny, raccoon butterfly, threadfin butterfly, salfin tang and a rabbitfish.

[3MTA3]

Your tank is not big enough to have more than one Tang, especially not a Sailfin Tang. Sailfins grow very big very fast, and need a lot of swimming space. They need a 200g tank.

Have the new fish been eating? Are they getting picked on? Do they just hide? 3-4 weeks sounds more like it is a problem with the fish like internal parasites or collection with cyanide or something like that. How many fish have you lost like this? What other types of fish?

This is the wrong way to answer a posted question....and not offering anything that can be checked but are offering critisism.

Can we get a bit more info on the system?

How much LR? Skimmer? Water parameters?

Is there or has been ich in the tank?

As much of the history of the tank that you can honestly think of. Something may come up...otherwise it could be a million different things.

It can be so hard to figure these kinds of sudden deaths out without more info.


This is the correct way to answer a question of need!!! kudos to you GSP.

Maybe with some of these answers the kind people of this forum might be able to help you out. Should I be able to offer any HELPFUL information as this thread grows I will be sure to add in :mrgreen:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Thanks for the replies. I watch them eat all the time and they seem to be getting enough food. They are a lot faster than the other fish. I don't see anyone pick on them. They are bigger than all the other fish except the blue tang which is about the same size.
The blue tang was the last fish I got that has survived. I got him 3 years ago. 9 months ago I bought a new 90Gal w/ 33Gal sump. Previously i had a 77Gal.
Live Rock: 50-60lbs.
Skimmer: Euro-Reef RS100
Phosban reactor with carbon.
The system never had Ick or any other disease. Except the blue tang has lateral line.
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.05
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Calcium: 400
Magnesium: 1305
Alkalinity: 177
KH: 4.9
Salinity: 1.025
Temp: 25-26 celcius
Fish that have died in the last 3 years within 1 month of getting them (purchased from 3 different fish stores):
2 watchman golby, 5 blue/green chromis, 3 firefish, blenny, raccoon butterfly, threadfin butterfly, salfin tang and a rabbitfish.

Ok this is good info to start with.

My first concern is that you get an ammonia reading. Although very low and shouldn't be toxic, but that worries me. Can you double check that?

If you are getting some ammonia with your current fishload, you may be getting spikes when adding new fish. BUT, why would only the new fish be effected and die? Doesn't really make sense.

If you are getting some ammonia, double check the flow in the tank and make sure detritus is not building up anywhere. You are on the lower side for LR as well (I run my tanks the same way) which is fine but perhaps adding a few more pieces of cured LR might add enough bacteria to get rid of that ammonia.

Having said all that, I don't think thats the problem.

Do you see any stress to the new fish caused by the old ones? Does the Tang bully new fish?

Oh and by the way, for that lateral line, make sure you feed that tangs lots of nori and vitamin soaked foods. They can recover from this with some time and care. Don't know how long he has had it but it can/will get better.

Keep adding more and more info about your tank as it comes to mind. Even if you think its silly, something may come up.

I hope things turn around for you...its a weird situation that only new fish die :(

[hummer]

Ok this is good info to start with.

My first concern is that you get an ammonia reading. Although very low and shouldn't be toxic, but that worries me. Can you double check that?

If you are getting some ammonia with your current fishload, you may be getting spikes when adding new fish. BUT, why would only the new fish be effected and die? Doesn't really make sense.

If you are getting some ammonia, double check the flow in the tank and make sure detritus is not building up anywhere. You are on the lower side for LR as well (I run my tanks the same way) which is fine but perhaps adding a few more pieces of cured LR might add enough bacteria to get rid of that ammonia.

Having said all that, I don't think thats the problem.

Do you see any stress to the new fish caused by the old ones? Does the Tang bully new fish?

Oh and by the way, for that lateral line, make sure you feed that tangs lots of nori and vitamin soaked foods. They can recover from this with some time and care. Don't know how long he has had it but it can/will get better.

Keep adding more and more info about your tank as it comes to mind. Even if you think its silly, something may come up.

I hope things turn around for you...its a weird situation that only new fish die :(

My Ammonia readings have never changed. I always get 0.05. I'm going to go pick up a new test kit to see if there is a big difference. Should I get a new nitrate/nitrite kit as well? Or do those matter at this point? But I agree that it shouldn't affect only new fish. I don't notice any stress in any of the fish. Only the Rabbitfish occasionally spike its fins up but there's no one around him that is bothering him. I figured it was a reaction from me watching him. I did notice the rabbitfish stopped eating the day before he died. Could his death cause a water imbalance that the sailfin couldn't cope with? The skimmer has been going crazy last night after they died. I'll retest the system after I do a water change. I also do my water changes every 3-4 weeks. Should I do more frequent changes? I change out about 10-15%.

[digital-audiophile]

I see you are not getting the livestock all from the same store? I found this issue with one store where it seemed everything I would bring home would be dead within a couple weeks. Needless to say I avoid buying livestock there :p

You tank is pretty well established, 9 months as the 90 I gather and a couple years as the 77G so even with the transfer you would have a pretty stable mature system so unless you started doing something drastically different your paramaters should not fluctuate too much.

You KH is a bit low, but Ca and PH are in line so if you mess with the KH too juch you might end up throwing the other measurements out of whack.. you could look at buffering but try slowly and montior monitor monitor. I would double check the ammonia, I find those test kits to be kind of useless they are brand new, after a couple months on the shelves they always seem to give a false positive.

Have you meaured O2 at all.. what is the flow like in your tank, with a sump and skimmer in theory you should be getting decent surface aggitation (did I spell that wrong? lol) so I'm not sure... although you think you would see issues with your existing fish if that was the problem.

hmmm.. I hate losing fish.. especially when its hard to figure out why?

What are you using for water and salt?

[hummer]

I see you are not getting the livestock all from the same store? I found this issue with one store where it seemed everything I would bring home would be dead within a couple weeks. Needless to say I avoid buying livestock there :p

You tank is pretty well established, 9 months as the 90 I gather and a couple years as the 77G so even with the transfer you would have a pretty stable mature system so unless you started doing something drastically different your paramaters should not fluctuate too much.

You KH is a bit low, but Ca and PH are in line so if you mess with the KH too juch you might end up throwing the other measurements out of whack.. you could look at buffering but try slowly and montior monitor monitor. I would double check the ammonia, I find those test kits to be kind of useless they are brand new, after a couple months on the shelves they always seem to give a false positive.

Have you meaured O2 at all.. what is the flow like in your tank, with a sump and skimmer in theory you should be getting decent surface aggitation (did I spell that wrong? lol) so I'm not sure... although you think you would see issues with your existing fish if that was the problem.

hmmm.. I hate losing fish.. especially when its hard to figure out why?

What are you using for water and salt?

Flow: To move the water I have 1 Seio M1500. It's positioned on the left side of the tank so it blows to circulate the water clockwise.
Salt: I have been using Coralife salt for the past 2 years.
Water: I use reverse osmosis.
I have never measured O2. Is it something I should keep an eye on?
Ya I hate losing fish. That is why I stop buying fish for 6 months. My water chemistry has never been better. So I started buying again. It sucks that it cost so much and I love spending it on fish.

[digital-audiophile]

I don't test O2 at home but every once in a while I'll bring a sample into one of the LFS and have them test for me. Unless you water is really stagnant it should not be something you need to worry about testing to often.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

My Ammonia readings have never changed. I always get 0.05. I'm going to go pick up a new test kit to see if there is a big difference. Should I get a new nitrate/nitrite kit as well? Or do those matter at this point? But I agree that it shouldn't affect only new fish. I don't notice any stress in any of the fish. Only the Rabbitfish occasionally spike its fins up but there's no one around him that is bothering him. I figured it was a reaction from me watching him. I did notice the rabbitfish stopped eating the day before he died. Could his death cause a water imbalance that the sailfin couldn't cope with? The skimmer has been going crazy last night after they died. I'll retest the system after I do a water change. I also do my water changes every 3-4 weeks. Should I do more frequent changes? I change out about 10-15%.

Strange...

The rabbitfish putting his spikes up when you watch him is normal--mine still does that to me sometimes and I have had him for years. It is a defense mechanism but shouldn't mean he is really stressed, especially to the point that he would just die.

Yes the rabbit dieing could cause water issues that effect the Sailfin but it really would have effected all the fish. I guess with the Sailfin being newer though maybe he got more stressed. Still doesn't make any sense to me though.

Your tank is ready for fish (established long enough), you have fish that have been with you for 3 years (you know what your doing) and the new fish last a month and then suddenly die (all from different stores though)...really strange.

Were the rabbit and sailfin from the same store though? Bought at the same time? I can't remember.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I don't test O2 at home but every once in a while I'll bring a sample into one of the LFS and have them test for me. Unless you water is really stagnant it should not be something you need to worry about testing to often.

To add to this, unless all your fish are dying, I wouldn't worry too much about O2. Its not something that would only effect the new guys.

As digital-audiophile said, as long as you have good surface agitation with the powerheads and your skimmer going, it should be just fine.

Plus you would have noticed your fish breathing very hard and getting quite lethargic.

[hummer]

Strange...
Were the rabbit and sailfin from the same store though? Bought at the same time? I can't remember.

Yes the rabbit and sailfin were from the same store and bought at the same time. They weren't from the same tank though. The guy had troubles catching the sailfin from the same tank because it kept hiding under the rocks. The butterflies were bought from another store and they were both in the same tank.