View Full Version : Total Failure
I am at my wits end...Since starting the tank and being very patient with the cycle, I slowly added my fish (2 blue Chromis which did well) Then I added 2 clown fish and a manderine dragon goby.
The clown fish died, and I still haven't found the maderine goby. I had my water tested by my LFS and was told my water was fine and that they were just bad fish.
So I tried again...3 more clown fish and a Royal Gramma Basslet. All very compatible and hardy fish from my research and they all got along.
First went the Royal Gramma and a clown, and now within 12 hours my last 2 remaining clowns died within 12 hours of each other which leaves me with 1 green chromis as of this morning.
I should mention that all my snails and crabs are doing great as well as the few corals (zoa, candy cane and my green star polyp is doing great). I put in an LTA a week ago and he is fine as well...
I tested my water last night and although I dont have the readings the only thing that was a bit low was my PH which I have been using Buff to raise...
I am at a loss and ready to give up on keeping fish on account of incompetence and just keep corals and snails :cry:
I just don't get it. :sad:
parkinsn
03-17-2009, 08:26 PM
What are your peramiter's? How long has your tank been running? What size tank and equipment are you running?
Chaloupa
03-17-2009, 08:36 PM
First off...too many fish being added at the same time to a new small tank.
You just finished your cycle....added 2 fish, then a couple weeks later you added 4 more....you are causing mini cycles to happen with your tank each time....add fish SLOWLY.....1 fish at a time...or in the case of the clown pair once the tank has been established for a while longer...then add the pair. Your tank is not ready for a few fish at a time...and it can't cope. When you say your levels are "fine"...more info would really help. This hobby is about patience and trust me, with my first tank I rushed it BADLY and lost many fish as I just didn't slow down. Once you slow down you will LOVE your tank and the hobby! And you have asked questions which is fantastic! I didn't even know about Canreef when I started...I may have done a much better job if I had!
Also a mandarin dragonette will not do well in a tank that small..unless it's eating frozen foods very very very well....as there will not be enough pods to keep it fed. They also require a well established tank.....sorry but it's not the best choice for your tank.....
Just my opinion on what could be going wrong..you can keep corals..you're not doing everything wrong AT ALL!
Chaloupa has good advice. I agree on the Mandarin...do not consider one in a tank smaller than 75g except in rare instances. I would suggest you do not use a pH buffer for your tank unless your pH is less than 7.8, in which case you likely need to adjust something else, and not use buffer at all. What kind of buffer are you using? How often are you using it? What does the pH read before using it? What does the pH read after using it?
If you provide more information like tank size, when you started it, when you first had 0 nitrite and 0 ammonia, what all your levels are (specific gravity, temp, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, and phosphate), what brand test kits you use, what additives you use, what salt, what your daily/weekly/monthly maintenance schedule is, etc. Provide as much info as possible.
Taking a read through my guide for just starting out, and also the chemistry guide would be a good read to skim through to see if you're missing anything that may be a key to your tank's current challenges.
Nixon
03-17-2009, 09:48 PM
just a shot in the dark here but how are you acclimating these fish? too short of an acclimation time? just a thought.
untamed
03-17-2009, 11:18 PM
I wouldn't be using any kind of buffer...especially as you are just starting out. pH is not likely to be the problem.
parkinsn
03-17-2009, 11:23 PM
I wouldn't be using any kind of buffer...especially as you are just starting out. pH is not likely to be the problem.
Agreed. Your Ph will also be directly affected by your KH so if you post you tank perimeters your KH may reflect the problem with PH. Also KH, Mg and Ca have to be in line with each other for one to stay up they all have to be at proper level's.
FlamesFan
03-17-2009, 11:31 PM
Possibly bad luck? I have an established tank and still manage to have issues with fish. I belive it's mostly due to the fish being either cyanide caught or stressed from all the transfers they go through. Most of the deaths i've had come within the first month of being added. If they last more than a month, they live a nice life in my tank.
reeferious
03-17-2009, 11:53 PM
did you test for ammonia?
Phew that was a lot of information to go through but I believe I have the answers to all.
To start I would like to clarify a few things. Whenever I have bought fish I have always asked for the advice of the LFS and let them know the history of the tank, I always bring in a water sample and I let them know whats in the tank.
I would also like to clarify that it wasn't a manderine goby I had in there, (thats on my future wish list) its was a dragon goby...the guy who eats the sand and spits it out through his lungs...or did before he died...He is still in the tank somewhere...do I need to rip it apart to find him or will my cleaner shrimp make short work or him if they haven't already?
The tank is 33 gal, no sump with a protien skimmer, in tank fluval, T5 HO lights and a power head. I started the tank on Dec 29th and waiting 9 weeks before I and my LFS (Big Al's) was satisfied that it was cycled.
Anytime a fish was added I dripped them for about an hour...maybe a bit longer using some rubber tubing and a chip clip.
I am using Red Sea marine lab test kit and the quick dip 6 in 1 test strips.
My test results as of tonight are Alk 120-180, pH 7.0-7.4 (hard to tell), Salinity :1.022 Nitrites :0 Nitrates :0 and the one that of course caused the problem I am sure Ammonia : 1.0...
After seeing the ammonia test I did a 10-15% water change...hopefully not too much. I have been doing weekly water changes along with the freshwater tank every weekend...
I hope I answered everything...maybe the one thing I am missing is how often I am testing and what I am testing for...maybe I would have seen this coming. The odd thing is that all my inverts, corals and my anemone are doing great...everyone just keeps telling me I got bad fish but those bad fish are costing me good money...I hope I can get this worked it but its just heartbreaking and I just feel so defeated after soo many losses.
I just need hope that I am not a complete failure at this to keep going!
Thanks to all who replied...
68shelby
03-18-2009, 03:56 AM
The only thing I see that looks odd is your Ph (low) Possibly ph shock. and I get roused everytime I take mine in and its at 8.3 how is the KH? As for the ammonia I assume its more your reading the test strip as nitrates are zero. I myself havent even dared keeping an anenome yet as i hear they are tough to keep. So you are doing something right.
naesco
03-18-2009, 04:01 AM
All very good advice.
Forget about what your LFS is saying. He makes money selling you fish and reselling them when they die.
In a small tank you should be only adding one fish at a time once a month. The tank adjusts slowly.
If an animal dies you must remove it or is will cause your tank to have an ammonia and than nitrite spike and kill everything.
Do not add any fish to your tank until everything stabilizes and do not add any further chemicals.
Patience is the key in this hobby, eh
Phew that was a lot of information to go through but I believe I have the answers to all.
To start I would like to clarify a few things. Whenever I have bought fish I have always asked for the advice of the LFS and let them know the history of the tank, I always bring in a water sample and I let them know whats in the tank.
I would also like to clarify that it wasn't a manderine goby I had in there, (thats on my future wish list) its was a dragon goby...the guy who eats the sand and spits it out through his lungs...or did before he died...He is still in the tank somewhere...do I need to rip it apart to find him or will my cleaner shrimp make short work or him if they haven't already?
The tank is 33 gal, no sump with a protien skimmer, in tank fluval, T5 HO lights and a power head. I started the tank on Dec 29th and waiting 9 weeks before I and my LFS (Big Al's) was satisfied that it was cycled.
Anytime a fish was added I dripped them for about an hour...maybe a bit longer using some rubber tubing and a chip clip.
I am using Red Sea marine lab test kit and the quick dip 6 in 1 test strips.
My test results as of tonight are Alk 120-180, pH 7.0-7.4 (hard to tell), Salinity :1.022 Nitrites :0 Nitrates :0 and the one that of course caused the problem I am sure Ammonia : 1.0...
After seeing the ammonia test I did a 10-15% water change...hopefully not too much. I have been doing weekly water changes along with the freshwater tank every weekend...
I hope I answered everything...maybe the one thing I am missing is how often I am testing and what I am testing for...maybe I would have seen this coming. The odd thing is that all my inverts, corals and my anemone are doing great...everyone just keeps telling me I got bad fish but those bad fish are costing me good money...I hope I can get this worked it but its just heartbreaking and I just feel so defeated after soo many losses.
I just need hope that I am not a complete failure at this to keep going!
Thanks to all who replied...
Your salinity is low as is your ph...you also add to quickly. Don't listen to big als. Clean your fluval every week. Check your ammonia if it keeps rising the missing fish is probably decaying. You don't mention (or i Missed) a cleanup crew, this is an essential part of a tank as well. Test your own water most lfs use the tests till they run out who knows if they have expired (this is not all LFS, but with big als...well). Remember most ammonia tests rely on a valid ph test as well...ph is a certain level then ammonia toxicity is higher or lower. Save your money, stabilize your tank then try again.
The point in adding fish slowly to a tank is to build up the bacteria you need...which needs ammonia to form..but a tank can only process so much at one time...the bacteria doesn't keep growing and growing...it grows as more ammonia is added...to much the system cannot cope....so you have to think of it like this...every time you add a fish you are essentially doing a little cycle.
also...since you are new...try testing your replacement water for everything you test your tank for...see how everything compares...
Interesting...The pH has always been low which was why it was suggested I use the buff to help increase it...not sure how else to do it...
The ammonia, nitrite and nitrate reading were all from the test kit...only the alk and pH are from the test strips...
Thanks for the encouraging words...I just wish my clowns were still around to enjoy the annenome.
68shelby
03-18-2009, 04:10 AM
I would be more than happy to test your water for you, What kind of water are you using? Reverse osmosis water the Ph is very low. and you will definitely have to raise with a buffer.
Your salinity is low as is your ph...you also add to quickly. Don't listen to big als. Clean your fluval every week. Check your ammonia if it keeps rising the missing fish is probably decaying. You don't mention (or i Missed) a cleanup crew, this is an essential part of a tank as well.
Is t suggested that I tear the tank up in order to find and remove the goby??
I will start cleaning the fluval weekly with the water changes...I do have a CUC in there consisting over small burrowing snails, big (I think Turbo) snails and some little hermit crabs...they are all doing fine.
Test your own water most lfs use the tests till they run out who knows if they have expired (this is not all LFS, but with big als...well).
I do test my own...lately I have been needing replacement fish and so I doubt my test results and want a second opinion...
Remember most ammonia tests rely on a valid ph test as well...ph is a certain level then ammonia toxicity is higher or lower. Save your money, stabilize your tank then try again.
The point in adding fish slowly to a tank is to build up the bacteria you need...which needs ammonia to form..but a tank can only process so much at one time...the bacteria doesn't keep growing and growing...it grows as more ammonia is added...to much the system cannot cope....so you have to think of it like this...every time you add a fish you are essentially doing a little cycle.
also...since you are new...try testing your replacement water for everything you test your tank for...see how everything compares...
Thanks!
I would be more than happy to test your water for you, What kind of water are you using? Reverse osmosis water the Ph is very low. and you will definitely have to raise with a buffer.
Just regular tap water with that concentrated tap water conditioner...I dont have a fancy RO machine...
To start I would like to clarify a few things. Whenever I have bought fish I have always asked for the advice of the LFS and let them know the history of the tank, I always bring in a water sample and I let them know whats in the tank.
I am using Red Sea marine lab test kit and the quick dip 6 in 1 test strips.
My test results as of tonight are Alk 120-180, pH 7.0-7.4 (hard to tell), Salinity :1.022 Nitrites :0 Nitrates :0 and the one that of course caused the problem I am sure Ammonia : 1.0...
After seeing the ammonia test I did a 10-15% water change...hopefully not too much. I have been doing weekly water changes along with the freshwater tank every weekend...
I hope I answered everything...maybe the one thing I am missing is how often I am testing and what I am testing for...maybe I would have seen this coming. The odd thing is that all my inverts, corals and my anemone are doing great...everyone just keeps telling me I got bad fish but those bad fish are costing me good money...I hope I can get this worked it but its just heartbreaking and I just feel so defeated after soo many losses.
I just need hope that I am not a complete failure at this to keep going!
Thanks to all who replied...
Most LFS employees don't know enough about sw tanks. Knowledge usually comes with time, and with time comes age, so most people with lots of sw knowledge aren't going to be young enough to be willing to work a $8-14/hour job. Just my two cents on that one. So take their advice with a grain of salt.
The test kits you have are not very high quality, and their accuracy is hot or miss at best. I believe your pH is low (which is often the case in new tanks) I don't believe your pH is that low provided you have aragonite sand in the tank, and use marine salt in your water! :lol:
I also don't believe you have an ammonia reading without seeing nitrite. If you have ammonia in a cycled tank you should have nitrite as well. You could have nitrite without ammonia though, but it would be a sign that ammonia was recently present. I believe that either you DO have ammonia, but also have nitrite, or you don't have ammonia and may or may not have nitrite. Doing a water change is a good idea. 10-15% is definately not too much, you can do 90% water changes provided you match specific gravity, temperature, and pH very closely. For smaller water changes as long as you're close on the temp and salinity you should be good to go. Make sure you allow fresh saltwater to mix with a powerhead and heater for 24 hours before using it for a water change.
Your specific gravity is far too low for a reef tank, it should be 1.026. Slowly raise it up to that level over a week or ten days. Take your hydrometer (assuming you're using a swing arm hydrometer) to your LFS and get them to check it's accuracy at 1.026 against their refractometer so that you know how much your hydrometer it out by. Almost all hydrometers are out, by as much as 0.008 I have seen! :eek: Your (very) low salinity is likely an attributing factor to your low pH.
You need to get a more accurate reading for your alkalinity. 120-160 ppm is a huge gap. 120 is too low, and 160 is barely high enough.
Take a quick skim through the chemistry guide and the getting started guide in my signature. You might find some key information in there you are missing.
Ron99
03-18-2009, 04:44 AM
Just regular tap water with that concentrated tap water conditioner...I dont have a fancy RO machine...
This is likely a major part of your problems. Tap water is not good and has alot of dissolved elements you don't want. Probably even more so in Alberta than here on the West Coast. Get an RO/DI machine or buy RO/DI water from a purified water supplier. You can probably find them in the yellow pages. Some grocery stores and Walmarts also have the Culligan RO machines that dispense purified water.
subman
03-18-2009, 05:20 AM
What brand of salt are you using?
Most LFS employees don't know enough about sw tanks.
+++1
That is only part of the problem. The other part is that they are salesmen whose product carries no guarantee and if you need to replace your livestock on a regular basis all the better. A part of it may be bad fish as has been suggested. But if that is what you suspect then a trip to a different store may be in order. If those parameters were what they considered good I would certainly question their knowledge.
I would also check the temperature you are keeping your livestock at. Many people keep it at a much lower temperature than optimal. While it may not kill your fish directly, it will contribute to the stress. Finally, don't tear apart your tank unless you do have reason to suspect that there is a rotting fish. The small burrowing snails should be necessarius (sp?) snails. They will usually eat the dead fairly effectively. Good luck with the tank and keep reading.
Oh, you likely already know- but be careful how you clean the fluvial- you don't want to kill or replace all of the bacteria on the filter. Which actually brings me to the next question (though unrelated to a complete crash...) how much live rock did you include in the tank?
Canadian
03-18-2009, 11:44 AM
A few things:
1. Yes your ammonia is high - too high.
2. Yes your pH is too low (assuming your test kit is accurate - check it with a pH probe/pen)
3. Nitrite is basically considered non-toxic if you look more closely at the chemistry information posted by Randy on RC
4. Your slow drip acclimation is probably doing more harm than good for your fish - again another well discussed topic on RC. Over the years I have adopted the float, cut, drain, and dump method of fish acclimation and have had more success than I ever did with slow acclimation. However, given your low pH I don't think any acclimation procedure is going to give your fish much of a fighting chance.
All of you have told me that my pH is too low but no one has suggested how to solve it. On top of all that everyone has a different suggestion as to what I am doing wrong which just adds to me theory that everything I am doing is wrong.
If I cant use tap water then I might as well quit now because I am not putting any more equipment into this tank and I am not going to buy huge jugs of water just for the tank.
My ammonia is too high...Great...how do I fix it? Just water changes over the next few weeks?
My pH is too High...Once again...How do I fix that...
Why is slow dripping bad for the fish...Seems to be 2 schools of thought on that...and if it was slow dripping that hurt them then why did they last for so long afterward and then suddenly die.
I dont know what kind of salt I am using...
My test kits suck...ok great...What test kits don't suck so I can buy the right one?
My gravity is too low...I have read so much conflicting information on this I don't know who to believe any more...
Sorry if I seem ungrateful but the more people that respond with something different, the more discouraged I get.
michika
03-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Have you possibly considered the fact that it is your source of livestock that is the actual issue here? Is everything you've purchased from the same LFS? Can you describe the corpses? Are their spots on them, are they bloated, what is the time frame from addition to death, etc?
You can successfully run a SW tank without RO/DI water. I used to live in Edmonton, and I ran tanks for quite some time with tapwater. I used a good conditioner, Prime, and let it sit (in a rubbermaid with a circulation pump) for at least 2 days before using it. Eventually down the line though you may want to invest in an RO/DI system, however you do not have to.
Do you have a camera? Can you post a few pictures of your set up?
To answer your other questions
1) Ammonia, just keep doing regular water changes, 10-15% as you were doing until it comes down. The ammonia may be the result of decay as you mentioned.
2) You're pH is actually low, assuming you're talking about the reading of 7.0. I'm wondering about your salt, so I'm waiting to hear about about that.
3) Acclimating fish - there are lots of schools of thought on it. Pick whichever you feel works best for you.
4) Find out what type of salt you are using
5) Bump your specific gravity up, SLOWLY, to 1.024-1.025
6) Test kits - see if you can meet up with someone here, or take your water sample to another LFS and just see what they say. As well make sure you are tracking your parameters in a notebook or a spreadsheet. This will let you easily identify known issues, or pinpoint any problems.
So if I was you, I would be changing out 10%-15% of my water each week to lower the ammonia levels, like you are doing. I would also be watching my tank for any dead fish that need to be removed asap. While I did water changes I would be slowly uping my S.G. levels. Also don't add any fish, etc. until you've got this sorted out.
Right now your biggest issues seem to be Ammonia levels, pH, and fish, in that order. Try attacking them systematically and see what happens.
1. can use treated tap, not ideal in the long run but think about a ro/di in the future.
2. Ammonia, water changes, time and don't add anymore livestock.
3. pH, raise salinity good aeration, but wouldn't worry to much
4. I drip for shrimp, some corals but for fish, add water by the cup, works
5. If it a marine salt, again wouldn't worry, Sifto or water softener be concerned
6. I started with Hagen, but moved to Saifert as found easier. Numbers between the kits really weren't too for off from each other. For pH I had to give up on the test kits and got a meter.
7. salinity 1.026 is the ideal and a lot depends on the method of testing, found my swing arm one day was good, next day was toast against a refractometer.
Anyway here's values to go for NSW (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php). Also not knocking Canreef members and everything here is good advice but remember we have the same range of experience as LFS employees.
Relaxing hobbie eh?
Aquattro
03-18-2009, 02:03 PM
All of you have told me that my pH is too low but no one has suggested how to solve it. On top of all that everyone has a different suggestion as to what I am doing wrong which just adds to me theory that everything I am doing is wrong.
If I cant use tap water then I might as well quit now because I am not putting any more equipment into this tank and I am not going to buy huge jugs of water just for the tank.
My ammonia is too high...Great...how do I fix it? Just water changes over the next few weeks?
My pH is too High...Once again...How do I fix that...
Why is slow dripping bad for the fish...Seems to be 2 schools of thought on that...and if it was slow dripping that hurt them then why did they last for so long afterward and then suddenly die.
I dont know what kind of salt I am using...
My test kits suck...ok great...What test kits don't suck so I can buy the right one?
My gravity is too low...I have read so much conflicting information on this I don't know who to believe any more...
Sorry if I seem ungrateful but the more people that respond with something different, the more discouraged I get.
Hi, welcome to the board :) First, your pH is way too low for a SW tank, therefore, I don't believe the value, I've seen tap water with a pH of 7. Yours is not 7.0. Trust me, it's just not. If you have cleaner shrimp in the tank surviving, your pH is fine enough.
Tap water is not the best, but many successful people here use it. Again, not likey your problem.
what kind of salt your using is important, maybe check it and report back.
Ammonia is too high if you can read it, so yes, you need to find the dead fish. Sucks, I know, but you gotta get it out. The tank is too small to support natural decomposition.
I agree with Canadian, dripping for an hour is not required, I float to match temp, dump them in.
Salifert kits are good. Elos kits are good.
Specific gravity is too low for a reef, it should be 1.026. But, at this point, you're just trying to keep fish alive, 1.022 will not be harmful to them.
Now wait until you stabilize things a bit, do a water change to get rid of ammonia, next time you get one fish only, acclimate as described by Canadian, and see if you have better luck. If someone here has offered to test your water, take them up on it, a third opinion is great.
Tonight I will tear down the tank and try to find the goby and make sure I grab the brand of salt...
I keep track of all my tests in my iPod so I have them with me whenever I need them...
I am using a refractometer (the swing arm was just way to inconsistent) so I will slowly start to increase my salinity. Should be relatively easy to do with the more frequent water changes...
You guys are really awesome...this whole board just being there for people like me and taking the time to help out...Really...thanks!!! I cant say it enough...
rocketlily
03-18-2009, 06:20 PM
I buy my RO water in Sherwood Park. A $60 card buys you 25 - 5 gal jugs. $ 2.40 for 5 gals. Not too bad of a price. PM me for the store's name if you need it.
My wife and I are going to look at RO water in the big blue jugs the next time we go and consider it...We buy the jugs anyway (just not the RO ones) so I guess a few more wouldn't be too bad...do you just have to add your salt after that then and not the conditioner I take it?
P.S. Where on that site did you get that ticker I see so often...I had a look but could only find ovulation ones...hahaha
saltynuts
03-18-2009, 07:12 PM
www.tickerfactory.com
Apparently I just didnt understand what I was reading at first..Got it figured out...
Thanks again!
Hi, welcome to the board :) First, your pH is way too low for a SW tank, therefore, I don't believe the value, I've seen tap water with a pH of 7. Yours is not 7.0. Trust me, it's just not. If you have cleaner shrimp in the tank surviving, your pH is fine enough.
Tap water is not the best, but many successful people here use it. Again, not likey your problem.
what kind of salt your using is important, maybe check it and report back.
Ammonia is too high if you can read it, so yes, you need to find the dead fish. Sucks, I know, but you gotta get it out. The tank is too small to support natural decomposition.
I agree with Canadian, dripping for an hour is not required, I float to match temp, dump them in.
Salifert kits are good. Elos kits are good.
Specific gravity is too low for a reef, it should be 1.026. But, at this point, you're just trying to keep fish alive, 1.022 will not be harmful to them.
Now wait until you stabilize things a bit, do a water change to get rid of ammonia, next time you get one fish only, acclimate as described by Canadian, and see if you have better luck. If someone here has offered to test your water, take them up on it, a third opinion is great.
As per dumping in...if his salinty is 1.022 and the stores is 1.025 or 1.026 then simply dumping is foolhardy...if his is higher then it is a bit less shock, but if his is lower than the stores i would say dumping them in is bad advice.
Thats what I figured... I had been testing theirs vs mine...and dripping based on that...but even then it was suggested I was dripping for too long.
subman
03-18-2009, 08:54 PM
The problem with slow dripping is temperature unless you can float and drip!
You are using marine salt though right?
The reason I ask is marine salt is buffered right out of the pail so you would have a higher ph.
Good call...I never considered the temperature when I was dripping...Thanks!
I thought I would try and save a few bucks and I am using those round salt tablets that we use to soften our water...
<dramatic pause>
Kidding of course...Until I get home I don't remember the details of the type of salt I bought...I originally bought a bag and then bought a big pail from big al's on boxing day...
Aquattro
03-18-2009, 09:28 PM
As per dumping in...if his salinty is 1.022 and the stores is 1.025 or 1.026 then simply dumping is foolhardy...if his is higher then it is a bit less shock, but if his is lower than the stores i would say dumping them in is bad advice.
Well, that was the point of a lot of the comments, the differences that work for people. I always dump, regardless of salinity. Fish are a lot tougher than we give them credit for...not bad advice, just different..
Well, that was the point of a lot of the comments, the differences that work for people. I always dump, regardless of salinity. Fish are a lot tougher than we give them credit for...not bad advice, just different..
then when doing hypo treatments you would not have to slowly increase salinity..hmm..
Good call...I never considered the temperature when I was dripping...Thanks!
I thought I would try and save a few bucks and I am using those round salt tablets that we use to soften our water...
<dramatic pause>
Kidding of course...Until I get home I don't remember the details of the type of salt I bought...I originally bought a bag and then bought a big pail from big al's on boxing day...
Aah..water softening tablets....i'd be inclined to say that is your problem at the very least the problem with the low ph
subman
03-18-2009, 10:00 PM
Good call...I never considered the temperature when I was dripping...Thanks!
I thought I would try and save a few bucks and I am using those round salt tablets that we use to soften our water...
<dramatic pause>
Kidding of course...Until I get home I don't remember the details of the type of salt I bought...I originally bought a bag and then bought a big pail from big al's on boxing day...
I know it sounds like a stupid question but you never know!
Aquattro
03-18-2009, 10:26 PM
then when doing hypo treatments you would not have to slowly increase salinity..hmm..
Well, your probably right, but let's not tell my fish, ok :) They think they're fine..
Well, your probably right, but let's not tell my fish, ok :) They think they're fine..
Just like most people....they think they are fine as well...little do they know...:razz:
I hope no one took me seriously on the water softener salt...hehehe
The official word on the salt is Coralife Scientific grade Marine salt. It's almost an empty bag and once its done I have a big tub of instant ocean sea salt that I bought on boxing day...
Now for the bad news...I tore up the tank and found no trace of the dragon goby...He was pretty darn small to begin with so I cant say that I am surprised...My cleaner shrimp hopefully made short work of em...
I like the new look of the tank even though my anemone doesn't...he is all angry now just keeps pacing the current...hehe
I will agree with much of what has been said. You are keeping inverts successfully, so you are doing something right. One major issue is the accuracy of the equipment you are using. If the test is faulty then the actions that you take to correct a problem is going to cause problems instead of fix them. Be sure of the equipment / tests you are using. I think earlier on somebody had offered to come test your water. Take them up on the offer- they may spot something else that nobody has noticed and that you could only see in person.
Next, as to a million different suggestions- you will find that in this hobby. Everybody has their own way of doing things from those who use no skimmer to those who use Zeovit. Neither is wrong. How to acclimatize fish? Well, on both sides you will find people very adamant that their way is the “right” way. Try to remember that neither will kill everything you put in the tank or nobody would follow it. It is like that with most disagreements. Drip or don’t- one may cause slightly less stress- but neither will guarantee dead stock (but do keep an eye on the temperature.)
R/O water- nice but if you are doing 15% changes not a requirement. Not using it may cause some other issues with algae or the likes- but as has been mentioned- many people are successful without. It may not be ideal- but keeping saltwater fish was popular (though slightly more difficult) before every home “needed” a filter- and the last tank that I kept I did not use R/O and I did not do huge water changes. Nothing was what I would consider stressed or unhealthy.
Finally, concerning issues such as S.G and temperature, I use http://www.ronshimek.com/reef_aquaria.html In the article on salinity / temperature he gives the actual temperatures and salinity of the ocean around the world. I don’t know if he outright states what is best- but if you can think he does make it so you can draw your own conclusions. Then you just have to be confident that you are providing the best conditions that you can and that most closely match natural conditions and ignore any well meaning advice. Good luck.
alfredshouse
03-19-2009, 04:53 PM
I am just getting over a major tank crash, I lost all my fish over night. However, I did learn alot. My suggestion is, go to the LFS and buy an O2 test kit, they are only $15. I had no O2 in my tank, none. I now have a sump and I raised my O2 using airstones and a few other tricks. Oh yah, the LFS cannot test for O2 because the water has to be tested as soon as it comes out of the tank. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the tip...I have an air stone in there but I will pick up a tester just in case...
Anyone have any thoughts on the salt I was using? Just to recap I am using Coralife Scientific grade Marine salt. It's almost an empty bag and once its done I have a big tub of instant ocean sea salt.
Aquattro
03-20-2009, 01:49 PM
Thanks for the tip...I have an air stone in there but I will pick up a tester just in case...
Anyone have any thoughts on the salt I was using? Just to recap I am using Coralife Scientific grade Marine salt. It's almost an empty bag and once its done I have a big tub of instant ocean sea salt.
I used Coralife salt once, it didn't kill anything, but I would recommend the Instant Ocean instead. Just a better salt, IMO.
Oh, and I wouldn't waste money on an O2 test kit. Unless you get a major die off, or huge algae bloom, your O2 levels will be fine. Maintaining decent flow in your tank is sufficient to off gas the CO2, and O2 just loves to replace it. Most tanks with normal temps and stocking will always have sufficient O2.
In your opinion, is a single power head good enough flow for a 33 gallon tank with 50 lbs or rock? I have been debating getting a second power head with an oscillating head or replacing the one I have with one...
Aquattro
03-20-2009, 02:21 PM
Depending on what you keep, you may want another powerhead. As long as you've got some surface agitation, you'll be fine for O2 levels, but a reef may appreciate more flow. It helps corals slough off mucus and stuff.
Interesting that you mention that because just recently I have noticed an increase in stringy slime in the tank...only within the last week tho...If it was from the snails I would have thought it would be more consistent from the day I put them in...my Duncan coral only slimes me when I move him and that is a rare occurrence...just very odd.
Canadian
03-20-2009, 03:11 PM
There are pockets of variable salinity water near river outlets into the ocean that fish swim past and don't suddenly start floating. Fish can deal with the salinity changes much more readily than they can deal with toxic conditions.
Slow acclimation exposes the fish to low pH in the presence of increased ammonia making it more toxic. Additionally, slow acclimation exposes the fish to water low in O2 as it stagnates.
If the large swing in SG was dangerous you'd think those of us who float, cut and dump would have lost some fish - but it hasn't happened.
then when doing hypo treatments you would not have to slowly increase salinity..hmm..
There are pockets of variable salinity water near river outlets into the ocean that fish swim past and don't suddenly start floating. Fish can deal with the salinity changes much more readily than they can deal with toxic conditions.
Slow acclimation exposes the fish to low pH in the presence of increased ammonia making it more toxic. Additionally, slow acclimation exposes the fish to water low in O2 as it stagnates.
If the large swing in SG was dangerous you'd think those of us who float, cut and dump would have lost some fish - but it hasn't happened.
yeah...kinda what the message said...was more of a hmm good then a hmm bad... :)
Interesting that you mention that because just recently I have noticed an increase in stringy slime in the tank...only within the last week tho...If it was from the snails I would have thought it would be more consistent from the day I put them in...my Duncan coral only slimes me when I move him and that is a rare occurrence...just very odd.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? It kind of got buried in the river salinity talk :P
I have noticed an increase in stringy slime in the tank...only within the last week tho...If it was from the snails I would have thought it would be more consistent from the day I put them in...my Duncan coral only slimes me when I move him and that is a rare occurrence...just very odd.
I would also like to take someone up on their offer to have my water tested. I am on the NE side of town if anyone can help.
Cheers!
Slime is usually a sign of distress. Can also be poop from the fleshier corals or an anemone (can't remember if you have a nem or not).
Take a sample of your water to the LFS for testing if you can't find someone willing to do it for you.
Slime is usually a sign of distress. Can also be poop from the fleshier corals or an anemone (can't remember if you have a nem or not).
Take a sample of your water to the LFS for testing if you can't find someone willing to do it for you.
That must be exactly what it is...I recently put in a LTA and the slime started appearing shortly afterward...
Is there a best method to controlling it? its very difficult to suck up with the fluval (or the HOB I just put on to help with that) considering all the flow in the tank...
I haven't had any other suggestions so I did a google search and was what the likely hood that its red slime algae?
Well if the slime is red, then it's probably red slime algae aka cyanobacteria. Which is caused by excess nutrients. Best to get that under control asap. Read the guide in my signature about nuisances algaes.
Marlin65
03-23-2009, 07:14 PM
I had a bit of that in one of my tanks you can buy some stuff to treat that. Worked great on my tank.
BTW nems don't do well in SG less than 1.024 but I assume you already took care of that.
digital-audiophile
03-23-2009, 07:26 PM
I had a bit of that in one of my tanks you can buy some stuff to treat that. Worked great on my tank.
BTW nems don't do well in SG less than 1.024 but I assume you already took care of that.
Also, anemones need mature stable tanks. Three months is a little young to have one in there.
The anemone is doing great as is everything else right now. Salinity is up to 1.025 as of yesterday...
Thanks for asking.
digital-audiophile
03-23-2009, 08:38 PM
Red Slime aka Cyano is just part of the regular tank cycling process. It may come and go for a while. Once you switch to RO/DI you will see less of it.. tap water always seems to be a major culprit. You can treat with chemiclean or one of the other red slime removers but IMO it just masks the issue and it comes back. I say this all from my own experience.
You can syphon it out but have some patience and it will get better.
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