H20 ocean salt is just rebadged Red Sea salt

[bigblack]

Ok so i was recommended to switch from seachems reef salt to H20 by my lfs that shall remain unnamed as i am sure they did not know, but i just read that

"Please don´t use H2O this salt is relabeled Red Sea Coral Pro and we have some really problems with the coral coloration."

This was written by fauna marin on this board, I am really dissapointed that i've bought 3 cans of this stuff only to find this out. ESPECIally since its 90 bucks with tax. Did anybody else know this or was i the only putz??

[fishytime]

Claims are unfounded.

[Jason McK]

I've heard nothing but good things about this salt. To the point that I was going to switch from Reefers best.

[Whatigot]

At OA, where I bought my new bucket of this salt, they told me they had tested it extensively and found it to be very good for trace minerals,, especially magnesium...

It wouldn't surprise me if this were a red sea rebadge, but I would definitely like to see some evidence before I denounce OA's recommendation.

[deep6er]

I have bought around 6 pails of H2O. And I pre test my water before I do any WC. And it has always been bang on.
I dont care what its called, I think its better than IO or kent

[Drock169]

Can you post were you found that claim?

[Trigger Man]

the tread you were talking about from fauna Marin was a old thread, and if you read further when they were asked to explain and show some proof they did not show any. In the end I'm pretty sure it was a misquote due to the language translation (remember he is from Germany), and if I remember right he either mentioned that he meant it was like Red Sea and a couple others that did not work well with the ultra lith system. Kinda like how ZeoVit systems work better with certain salts due to their contents. I am currently using and have used the H2O ocean salt for a while now and have loved it. I switched from RBS to it and my tank is looking great. On a side note I have used Red Sea Coral Pro in the past and my test results for it come in differently then the results I get for H2Ocean.

[dkcrx]

I've heard nothing but good things about this salt. To the point that I was going to switch from Reefers best.

x2

[Whatigot]

I have bought around 6 pails of H2O. And I pre test my water before I do any WC. And it has always been bang on.
I dont care what its called, I think its better than IO or kent

out of curiosity, what do you mix (water to salt ratio) and what d you test and what is the tests bang on to?

just curious as I have this salt now...

[fkshiu]

the tread you were talking about from fauna Marin was a old thread, and if you read further when they were asked to explain and show some proof they did not show any. In the end I'm pretty sure it was a misquote due to the language translation (remember he is from Germany), and if I remember right he either mentioned that he meant it was like Red Sea and a couple others that did not work well with the ultra lith system. Kinda like how ZeoVit systems work better with certain salts due to their contents. I am currently using and have used the H2O ocean salt for a while now and have loved it. I switched from RBS to it and my tank is looking great. On a side note I have used Red Sea Coral Pro in the past and my test results for it come in differently then the results I get for H2Ocean.

But someone wrote it on the Internet, it must be true! :)

[Whatigot]

careful.
you might get sued.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have been using it for a bit now and really like it myself. I have tested the Mg, calcium, alk, nitrate, K+, ect. a few times now and been very pleased with the results.

Its funny though because when I first got the salt, I thought, this is the exact same bucket I used to get the Red Sea Stuff in (same handle). Then I opened it and was like, wow, this is the exact same bag and little "tie" thingy used to close the Red Sea bags. Then I opened it and though, hmmmm...it smalls exactly the same (slightly different from other salts, IMO). It also takes longer to mix like the Red Sea stuff does.

So I wouldn't at all be surprised if at the very least it is in fact made at the same plant or actually just the same stuff. Both are real sea salt...

[Jason McK]

OK People who are using it and clam to have tested it. Can we see some numbers!

[24storm]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1287118

[Whatigot]

ok people who are using it and clam to have tested it. Can we see some numbers!

+10

[Whatigot]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1287118

now any body on this forums tests match up?
details?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

OK People who are using it and clam to have tested it. Can we see some numbers!

Here is what I got most recently in my book about the salt:

12/12/08

PH 8.37 (Probe)
Alk 9 dkh (Elos) (This worried me since I am running ZEO)
Ca 420 (Salifert)
Mg 1280 (Elos) (Would be nice a bit higher I guess)
K+ 400 ish (ZEO) (I have a hard time with this test but it was high)
Nitrate None that I could test but my test kits are not great in the low range.

01/30/09

PH 8.4 (Probe which was calibrated on 12/26/08)
Alk 9.5 (Elos)
Ca 480 (Elos)
Mg 1300 (Elos)
K+ 380 (ZEO)

Did not test nitrate


Hope this helps. I can go back through my "test records" for more if you want. I tested it a few more times back when I started using the salt but I was also using less reliable test kits back then too, so figure the results may not be useful.

All results are based on H2O salt mixed to 1.026 with 0 TDS RO/DI water and heated to 78-80 degrees.

[Jason McK]

Thanks Justin. numbers look good. But I agree ALK maybe high for Zeo

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

now any body on this forums tests match up?
details?

I got a lower Mg.

The high Alk seems to be consistent with my results too though. I think this is what I worry about being a ZEO user. But so far once I do my water change, my tanks ALK is still only around 8 (in the safe range) and drops from there over a few days.

I dose two part for ALK and Ca and after a water change, do not dose either for a few days.

Actually I am finding that with my tank being relatively young still (coral wise) that the weekly water changes take care of most of the ALK needs and about half the Ca needs.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Thanks Justin. numbers look good. But I agree ALK maybe high for Zeo

J

NP.

I am doing a water change today and will test the salt again.

[Whatigot]

pretty close..
thanks for posting them
close enough that we can assume any difference is probably a result of a difference in the testing parameters (different hydrometer, test kits, etc).

After looking at that, I may be going to seachem from now on as a non zeo user....
I havent cracked my h20 salt bucket I paid almost 90 bucks for as im still working my way through the tropic marin pro but for the near 30 dollar savings, from that one test, it looks like seachem reef is where its at.
great numbers all across the board.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Taken from that link, I find this interesting:

Reefer's Best

Ca 420
ALK 11
Mg 1200

High ALK for ZEO but low Mg for most "high end" mixes. But this is just one test.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Tested again today:

1.026
80 degrees
RO/DI TDS 0

ALK 10
PH 8.4
Ca 500
Mg 1320

Didn't test K+ this time or nitrates.

So pretty consistent for me. The three results I have posted are all from different buckets, months apart.

Whether its the same as Red Sea or not, I like this salt. I do not have any Red Sea to test but when I used to use it years ago, it was very low in Calcium. I never used to test Magnesium or ALK though, so I have no idea what they were.

I have a feeling based on the packaging that they are indeed made in the same plant. Even the printing on the buckets is so similar. Actually the layout is the exact same.

Perhaps the Red Sea stuff is a lower grade salt while they make sure the H2O levels are correct. Kind of like Tropic Marin Pro versus the regular stuff...I would assume they are produced in the same place but I have used both and they are not the same product.

I think people need to make sure they know the facts before they post things like this. Seems like maybe someone found out they are made in the same place and assumed they are the same product.

[bigblack]

I've been digging around a little more and seems that this is prob made in the same factory as red sea coral salt, the similarities are just too alike, with alk being a little diff with respect to each other, i'm going back to seachems reef salt its numbers are good and 30 bucks cheaper, i can buy alot more salt for that. And No just cuz i heard it on the net doesnt make it true but i was just going on fauna marin's reputation when i read that, and i don't think he is the only one that thinks its rebadged rscs, have a looksy on the net and many people express that opinion. i won't say where and leave it up to you to look, I just think in this hobby we get use to equating quality with a higher price and get that nice placebo effect, Its no surprise that aquarium companies know this and prey on our weakness, just look at all the rebadged things in the industry which cost double then it normally would. Don't get me wrong i'm not cheap but This hobby is expensive enough, i dont need my salt to be anymore so for no reason.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I've been digging around a little more and seems that this is prob made in the same factory as red sea coral salt, the similarities are just too alike, with alk being a little diff with respect to each other, i'm going back to seachems reef salt its numbers are good and 30 bucks cheaper, i can buy alot more salt for that. And No just cuz i heard it on the net doesnt make it true but i was just going on fauna marin's reputation when i read that, and i don't think he is the only one that thinks its rebadged rscs, have a looksy on the net and many people express that opinion. i won't say where and leave it up to you to look, I just think in this hobby we get use to equating quality with a higher price and get that nice placebo effect, Its no surprise that aquarium companies know this and prey on our weakness, just look at all the rebadged things in the industry which cost double then it normally would. Don't get me wrong i'm not cheap but This hobby is expensive enough, i dont need my salt to be anymore so for no reason.

If your just talking about the threads on Reef Central, that is not enough to base this on. Things spread like wildfire there. As soon as one person says its rebagged, a thousand others jump on the bandwagon and agree without actually knowing the facts. Many people expressing an opinion on the net does not make it a fact. Also being made in the same factory doesn't mean its the same product.

I am going to go get a bucket of the Red Sea stuff on friday when I am in Richmond (I know Big Als sells it) and test it.

As I said earlier, I have already found differences. Give me proof its the exact same and I will use the cheaper one but until then and as long as the H2O tests as well as it does, I will continue to use it.

Its not easy to find another salt testing high in Potassium.

[Whatigot]

I'd go halfers on that salt, just to know...
I think they sell the mini buckets at big als...

Maybe someone who is using it could even donate some to this cause...

[deep6er]

out of curiosity, what do you mix (water to salt ratio) and what d you test and what is the tests bang on to?

just curious as I have this salt now...

Im not realy sure how much salt I add at one time because I always make different amounts of water.The mixing pail is 30g. And I mix it to 1.025
ph - 8.2
Ca - 420/440
dkh - 9.0
mg - 1300/1340

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'd go halfers on that salt, just to know...
I think they sell the mini buckets at big als...

Maybe someone who is using it could even donate some to this cause...

I am just going to go ahead and buy a bucket. I will use it regardless, so its not a big deal.

I really want to see how it tests compared to the H2O using the exact same test kits/water/mixing methods,ect.

[naesco]

Claims are unfounded.
Who is the manufacturer? Is it the same as Red Sea?
If it is Red Sea, what is the difference between the two products?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Who is the manufacturer? Is it the same as Red Sea?
If it is Red Sea, what is the difference between the two products?

Well thats kind of the mystery here.

I for one am leaning towards same manufacturer but different product.

[bigblack]

just tested my batch in the garage .025 salinity, 430 cal, 9 alk, 1320 for mag using elos kits. Now these are supposedly the numbers for rscs 490 cal, 7 alk, 1300 mag, test done by bertoni on his salt tests on rc. i'm in the same boat as you puff as i have 3 buckets of this stuff so would appreciate also your tests,

[soups]

Well thats kind of the mystery here.

I for one am leaning towards same manufacturer but different product.

I was told by my LFS and many friends, that this salt has a better Mag leval then red sea salt. "People that actually use this salt"

BTW: We have to stop reading about so much bad advise on some products that we know nothing about. (Just Gossip after Gossip)


just My2cent

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

just tested my batch in the garage .025 salinity, 430 cal, 9 alk, 1320 for mag using elos kits. Now these are supposedly the numbers for rscs 490 cal, 7 alk, 1300 mag, test done by bertoni on his salt tests on rc. i'm in the same boat as you puff as i have 3 buckets of this stuff so would appreciate also your tests,

Yeah they are looking close, huh?

I will post the results friday evening or saturday morning after I mix up a batch of the Red Sea product and test it.

[i have crabs]

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/?q=node/407

http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages.com/AWT_Salt_Analysis_0208.pdf

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/?q=node/407

http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages.com/AWT_Salt_Analysis_0208.pdf

Hey I like that second link.

Whoa...lots of phosphates in Instant Ocean :neutral:

[Mrfish55]

Geeze, got me thinkin, I just bought two buckets of H2O (normally use Instant Ocean, but they were out of stock) I am nearing the end of the first bucket now and have not noticed any signifigant change to the system (actually think it looked better before) I have some mixed for a change right now so took the time to test and see where it was at (never tested new mix before) This was what I came up with
Sample tested at 78deg.
51.7ms/34ppt/1.0252sg - Pinpoint monitor
KH 9.5 or 3.39mgl - Elos
Calc 440 - Salifert
Mag. 1360 - Salifert
PH 8.47 - Medusa colorometer
Nitrate 1.5ppm - Medusa colorometer
Phosphate 1.24ppm - Medusa colorometer

Considering they promote it as nitrate and phosphate free I was a little surprised that there was readings on both (water for makup is RO/DI with 0 TDS) I have a small amount of Instant Ocean left that I am going to mix and test to see if there is any signifigant difference to justify the additional price.

[Trigger Man]

OK People who are using it and clam to have tested it. Can we see some numbers!

I had posted the actual numbers that I got with the first 3 buckets I used a while back on here when people were asking about the salt, all numbers fell within the spectrum listed on the pail (I found them to be on the higher side of the spectrum). I just cracked open a new bucket last week, so when I do my next mixing in around 10 days I can measure it again if needed (but if anyone searches old treads on here for the H2Ocean salt you should be able to see my posted results, done with RO water).

[FBNitro]

I can see why someone would suggest that Red Sea Coral Pro and H2Ocean were the same, they have the same bucket, tie strap, bag etc. So, for sure they use the same packaging supplier.

I find that Alk is higher in H2Ocean than in Red Sea Coral Pro (I was using Red Sea Coral Pro until December, then I switched) but calcium is lower in the H2Ocean and I've had to start dosing it on a regular basis. I used to dose alk the day after a water change, now I've got a few days grace before it starts to get into the 'dose now' range.

I've got a 10 gallon Zoa/softy/LPS tank w/no skimmer, so I tend to notice the differences in the water pretty quick due to the frequent water changes.

[Trigger Man]

One thing to remember is that in many industries the same factory is used to produce a brands product, but the products are different in makeup. The factory time is basicly rented for the time used and whatever brand uses the facility still uses their own methods and materials. In this way a factory can produce many different brands of a item, but each brand's item would have some differences as, each item would be made to that brand's specs.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

One thing to remember is that in many industries the same factory is used to produce a brands product, but the products are different in makeup. The factory time is basicly rented for the time used and whatever brand uses the facility still uses their own methods and materials. In this way a factory can produce many different brands of a item, but each brand's item would have some differences as, each item would be made to that brand's specs.

Yes and I would be willing to bet (as I said earlier) this is whats happening. I would go even further and say its the same salt with different trace elements added (or not added).

I am going to test to find out. I am very curious about the K+ reading for both.

I looked into it though and the Red Sea Coral Pro salt at Big Als is about the same price as the H2O salt anyways, so it really won't make a difference to me. I will keep using H2O as its been very good to me.

I would actually keep using Tropic Marin Pro if they still had a distributor in North America :(

[Red Coral Aquariums]

I have emailed D-D about Fauna Marin's accusation:
"Please don´t use H2O this salt is relabeled Red Sea Coral Pro and we have some really problems with the coral coloration."
It will be interesting to put this to rest. I will share my reply upon receipt.
Kevin

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have emailed D-D about Fauna Marin's accusation:
"Please don´t use H2O this salt is relabeled Red Sea Coral Pro and we have some really problems with the coral coloration."
It will be interesting to put this to rest. I will share my reply upon receipt.
Kevin

Great!

I look forward to hearing back about this.

[Stuart Bertram D-D]

Guys

I can categorically say that our salt is a unique formulation which D-D developed to have in our opinion the ideal parameters for a reef aquarium.

You only have to test the parameters to see that it is obviously not Red Sea Coral Pro rebadged - you can answer this question then yourselves.

We heard this many times in the early days on the UK forums however tests will show that we have:
Lower Calcium at 440ppm
Higher dKH at 9.3
Higher Magnesium at 1340
Higher Potassium at 410

David Saxby http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/david-saxbys-aquarium-20
spent many months adjusting parameters of salt mixes on his 3500g system adding magnesium, buffer and calcium as required in line with the Balling method.

Once we new where we wanted to go with a formulation we looked at a number of manufacturers, there are only a small number of serious manufacturing companies globally if you take out the small plants where the product is made in small batches in cement mixers.

We decided to use a natural base for the salt using evaporated water from a coral sea as this has the benefit of having all of the main and minor trace elements in the correct balance and more importantly they are homogenous throughout the mix.

As many trace elements are at levels of 1 gm per tonne - how can you expect to mix this small amount evenly through the salt in a synthetic manufacture without tub to tub variations and will these trace elements act as toxins if you get more than natural levels in your bucket or do you just not add them at all?

In the UK the salt has been accepted extremely well and gets excellent reviews from serious reef keepers and this is being repeated in all the other countries that we are now moving into. I have seen some very positive responses on this forum too.

David Saxby has now been running his aquarium exclusively on our salt for the last year and is getting the most amazing colouration and good growth. He can now keep some of the more difficult species of sponges as they are presumably responding to trace elements in the salt that were not there previously.

The only other product that David adds is iodine which he maintains at a level of 0.06ppm. The salt contains iodine at this same level but becomes depleted in the aquarium. Interestingly many salt mixes do not contain any iodine at all.

Side note: On my last aquarium I started to get severe RTN on many corals and this was stopped in its tracks by the addition of iodine as recommended to me by someone on Ultimate Reef forum. The iodine is apparently used to form an enzyme that helps to remove active oxygen from the coral flesh during the night.

David has now stopped the daily dosing of magnesium, calcium and buffer as the H2Ocean salt allows the levels to be maintained through water changes alone - about 15-20% per month.

He still runs a Deltec Calcium reactor however this now only runs at about half the output as the high magnesium makes it significantly easier to maintain the calcium level in your tank.

The only other things that he does are to control phosphate using Rowaphos, control the nitrates using a Deltec NFP vodka reactor and to feed heavily. There are 500 fish in the system and the fine particles that come off the frozen food will feed the corals too.

Hopefully this has answered your question and given you some additional info to think about too

All the best

Stuart

[fishytime]

Stuart, thank you for taking the time to respond. Welcome to our little board.

[Whatigot]

I remember when I used to be a vodka reactor...
I was going to take my tub back to OA and get some seachem..
But I love to see this kind of customer support so I will stick with the h2o and give it a shot...
Plus that article from aquarium water testers takes a little luster off of the seachem reef....

I'm with gsp on staying with tropic marin pro if anybody was going to keep carrying it.

[Zylumn]

And No just cuz i heard it on the net doesnt make it true but i was just going on fauna marin's reputation when i read that,
Quote from http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45707&highlight=fencer&page=6
"Please don´t use H2O this salt is relabeled Red Sea Coral Pro and we have some really problems with the coral coloration.
Take TUNZE Salt or SeaChem or Instant Ocean"

Has anyone ever talked to a store owner etc. with a good "reputation" that would recommend instant ocean for a reef setup unless they have a wide variety of additives they want to sell??

[Stuart Bertram D-D]

I was going to take my tub back to OA and get some seachem..
But I love to see this kind of customer support so I will stick with the h2o and give it a shot...


I am glad that my response did some good however I would rather you stick with our salt on the quality of its formulation and consistency than our customer support as this is the real test of a good product range.

To add to what I said earlier I saw that a couple of people had readings that were outside the range that we publish and this concerns me about the method of testing.

We are extremely confident about the levels that we achieve - so much so that we print both a standard and a range on each bucket - how many companies give you that much information in the salt market?. There are retained samples of each 1 tonne batch (batch number on the instructions) and in the past we have had queries about measured levels and gone back to the samples and fond the salt to be correct.

From this I have produced a series of FAQ's on our website to allow people to fully understand our experience with testing and how people use the testing equipment.

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/node/576

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/node/494

An extraction from the above is as follows

Whilst we are checking the parameters again I would like you to recheck your own tests and hopefully learn a few things from the further information below.

SALINITY

The levels on the salt are given at a salinity of 1.025 at 25C or 35.5ppt

To measure this salinity with a refractometer you must aim for a reading of 1.0262 as a refractometer will always measure as if the water is at 20C. (most refractometers have on the viewer 20/20)

If you read our salt instructions you will see how to calibrate the refractometer properly which say that the instrument must be at 20C during calibration and not the water.

When you then take a reading the REFRACTOMETER will always measure the SG as if the water is at 20C as the small amount of water that you add to the slide will have no impact on the temperature of the equipment and will soon change to the same temperature as the refractometer.

What ATC ( auto temperature compensation) means is that once calibrated at 20C you can use the refractometer in higher ambient temperatures where the instrument is hotter or colder.

If you use a HYDROMETER which is calibrated at 25 then you must have the water at 25C to get a reading of 1.025 at 25C, (check the calibration temperature printed on the hydrometer). If the water is colder than 25C then you can use the chart on the salt instructions to work out what the salinity must be at that lower temperature so that when you warm it to 25 it drops to 1.025.

Complicated stuff but simple when you understand it.

Whilst writing this reply I have realised that the temperature chart has a mistake on it. It should say on the right hand column "hydrometer calibrated at 25C" and not "SG calibrated at 20C". I changed this as the most common measuring tool was a refractometer however as I have already explained - a refractometer will always read as if the water is 20C and so you always must aim for 1.0262 if you want 1.025 at 25C.

TESTING

What we also found during development was how difficult it was to get accurate testing and we tried a lot of hobby kits against water samples measured in the laboratory. We even sent the same water off to a number of laboratories as 2 separate blind samples and got different results on some parameters, (not on magnesium), on the same water, so if laboratories find it hard to measure then what chance have we with hobby test kits.

What we did conclude is that the Tropic Marine Calcium/Magnesium Test Kit was the most reliable and accurate of the kits that we tried and agreed with the laboratory for magnesium every time. This is not the easiest kit to use and obtains a magnesium reading having first measured the calcium level. You therefore get 2 results with one test kit.

Other test kits we found could often be variable and sometimes out by up to 10% either way, although we did not test all manufacturers' kits.

If you follow the above many people will find that their salinity or SG is not as high as they think it is which is why the readings are often lower than we publish.

Hope this also helps a few people

Cheers

Stuart

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Thanks Stuart!

I was going to stick with H2O (as I mentioned earlier) because I have had nothing but great results with it and it tests within range each time I test but this just reassures me even more I guess.

Nice to have you come here and explain things. And put this whole thing to rest.

I think your explanation was pretty much exactly what a few of us thought...salt is only manufactured in a few places around the world so many different mixes are made at the same place but that doesn't make them the same product...

[JDigital]

My choices are limited right now... I just ran out of Aquamedic Reef salt, which i REALLY liked, mixed extremely clean and quick... but the LFS can't get any in for a year... so I am stuck between choosing Instant Ocean, H20 or RBS... :neutral:

Thinking about going with this H20... but for $5 more i can get the RBS.. something I know isn't a rebrand.


EDIT: Maybe I should have read all the new posts before posting... LOL Thanks Stuart, for posting. :)

[BC Mosaic]

Guy
.......We decided to use a natural base for the salt using evaporated water from a coral sea as this has the benefit of having all of the main and minor trace elements in the correct balance and more importantly they are homogenous throughout the mix.............
Stuart

Hello Stuart,

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't evaporated water the same as distilled water which is basically just pure H2O. Can trace elements be suspended/supported by water vapour? I use RO/DI for water changes and distilled water for drinking and cooking (doctors freak over this) and both read 000 TDS.

Thanks

[Stuart Bertram D-D]

I perhaps was not completely clear. If you evaparate the water from salt water from the coral reef you are left with the dried salt.

Cheers

Stuart

[RCFA]

I perhaps was not completely clear. If you evaparate the water from salt water from the coral reef you are left with the dried salt.

Cheers

Stuart

So then are you saying that your salt is produced by evaporating saltwater and packaging the salt? I'm sure there are other steps involved, but essentialy this is the base of your salt?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So then are you saying that your salt is produced by evaporating saltwater and packaging the salt? I'm sure there are other steps involved, but essentialy this is the base of your salt?

Yes this is basically how the salt is made (I would assume Ca and Mg among other elements are supplemented). That is the reason its called Natural Sea Salt instead of synthetic. If you go to the D-D site its explained.

This part was never a unclear. Rumors were just started about the salt being the exact same as the Red Sea product but they were never based on any fact, just people speculating based on packaging and...not really sure what else.

[BC Mosaic]

I perhaps was not completely clear. If you evaparate the water from salt water from the coral reef you are left with the dried salt.

Cheers

Stuart

Thanks. Makes sense now.

[naesco]

Stuart, very informative.
What is the country of manufacture?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

On the bucket is says "Made in Israel"

I would guess WAY down in that little area of the south that touches the Red Sea. Would make sense...more salt per gallon of water ;)

If I remember correctly the salinity is high in the Red Sea because it has some of the highest average surface temps of any ocean and come of the least amounts of rain in the area, leading to lots of evaporation and not much fresh water.

[Pan]

On the bucket is says "Made in Israel"

I would guess WAY down in that little area of the south that touches the Red Sea. Would make sense...more salt per gallon of water ;)

If I remember correctly the salinity is high in the Red Sea because it has some of the highest average surface temps of any ocean and come of the least amounts of rain in the area, leading to lots of evaporation and not much fresh water.
So it is re-packaged "red sea" :)

I had to....


Just kidding of course....

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So it is re-packaged "red sea" :)

I had to....


Just kidding of course....

LOL...can't argue with that!

Good one :yield:

Or maybe... :israel:

[Ryan L]

As some who has followed the development of salt mixes over the years we allmust understand something.

Salt used for aquarium is generally just the base scientific grade sodium chloride and a additional trace mineral mix with everything we need for aquariums.

One of the largest reclaimer of trace minerals from salt occurs in the dead sea region in Israel where they extract everything from cobalt to gold from the dried brine.

Lots of aquarium salt manufactures buy their trace element mixes form this large operation in Israel hence dd saying that salt comes from an evaporation based processes.

Whether or not who is combining the salt mix, lots of companies use the trace element mix sourced from the dead sea operations. There is lots of information about over on the zeo forums.

Sorry for the long winded answer but a friend of mine is an engineer at this project and you would be surprised how many salt "manufactures" use their products.

Ryan L

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Thanks Ryan...makes even more sense.

I had forgot about the dead sea :) I was just thinking oceans boardering Israel and not lakes.

So I guess they could just collect salt from the shores in that case ;)

Isn't the salt built up a few miles deep now as the lake continues to evaporate?

I think scientists have figured out how many more thousands of years the lake would be around until its just a huge salt deposit.

[Ryan L]

They both mine existing evaporate and have large ponds on the north end for evaporation.

You can see the operation on google earth it is quite extensive. The amount of gold and other trace elements the reclaim is quite impressive.

My buddy says it's hot as hell and it's out in the sticks but I just thinks he's bitchin' cause he's an Egyptian living in Isreal:biggrin:

Ryan L

[Stuart Bertram D-D]

Guys

The water to create the base salt comes directly from the ocean where we are sure that the balance of elements is correct for coral growth.

The raw salt is dried and then refined (cleaned) but not processed into individual elements to then re combine them as this would not make sense.

There are certain elements that partially precipitate out when dried and need to be re added and others that need to be boosted for the pro formulation.

It is obviously a little more complicated and scientific than this but you get the idea.

Stuart

[Treebeard]

Who in Calgary sells H2O? Some of my LPS were not looking so good and I found out my K was low so I started dosing, and now they are looking much better. Now I know why the K was low. Time to ditch the IO and get something better.

[RCFA]

Great info. just out of curiosity, does anyone know what processes are involved in 'cleaning' the evaporated base product before it is supplemented?

[Mrfish55]

Great info. just out of curiosity, does anyone know what processes are involved in 'cleaning' the evaporated base product before it is supplemented?

+1
I am finding there is quite a bit of material left in the bottom of my mixing tank that does not dissolve, kinda looks like silica sand.

[fencer]

Great info. just out of curiosity, does anyone know what processes are involved in 'cleaning' the evaporated base product before it is supplemented?

I wondered about this too. I would think that they evaporate the seawater and collect the residual salt and add it to the wholesaler salt. Since trace elements are in the ppm to ppb range. I also imagine they add supplments to their salt to balance the composition. I have a hard time imagining that the use of evaporate sea salt can be uniform from batch to batch.

FYI...sort of related. I have seen in refineries that produce gasoline make blends for other companies. The refinery just adds the components that the buyer request in the gas. I would think by the same token many sellers of salt buy from the same wholesaler and the wholesalers just blends the trace components in as per the buyers request. It is possible that the salts inquestion share that same base stock.

[RCFA]

I wondered about this too. I would think that they evaporate the seawater and collect the residual salt and add it to the wholesaler salt. Since trace elements are in the ppm to ppb range. I also imagine they add supplments to their salt to balance the composition. I have a hard time imagining that the use of evaporate sea salt can be uniform from batch to batch.

FYI...sort of related. I have seen in refineries that produce gasoline make blends for other companies. The refinery just adds the components that the buyer request in the gas. I would think by the same token many sellers of salt buy from the same wholesaler and the wholesalers just blends the trace components in as per the buyers request. It is possible that the salts inquestion share that same base stock.

Yes that is what i was thinking as well. I don't really know anything about the salt manufacturing process but this is exactly what done fo engine oil. Esso manufactures about 10-12 different brands of engine oil at their refinery in Edmonton and just adds different additives for each companys specifications. but the base stocks are all the same (i suspect alot of the oils are very similar).

I am not familiar with the area where this salt is being evaporated at all, but in general wouldn't the salt water be affected seasonlly based on the currents and plankton blooms etc. Just curious how the manufacturing process maintains a consistent product.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I wondered about this too. I would think that they evaporate the seawater and collect the residual salt and add it to the wholesaler salt. Since trace elements are in the ppm to ppb range. I also imagine they add supplments to their salt to balance the composition. I have a hard time imagining that the use of evaporate sea salt can be uniform from batch to batch.

FYI...sort of related. I have seen in refineries that produce gasoline make blends for other companies. The refinery just adds the components that the buyer request in the gas. I would think by the same token many sellers of salt buy from the same wholesaler and the wholesalers just blends the trace components in as per the buyers request. It is possible that the salts inquestion share that same base stock.

Ya this is what he said earlier.

[Ryan L]

Hello Stuart,

I was wondering where in Israel your solar drying pans are located?

Thanks Ryan L

[Red Coral Aquariums]

Who in Calgary sells H2O? Some of my LPS were not looking so good and I found out my K was low so I started dosing, and now they are looking much better. Now I know why the K was low. Time to ditch the IO and get something better.

We sell H2Ocean salt and have been happy with customer feed back.
Kevin

[Treebeard]

Thanks Kevin. If I am in town on the weekend I will pick some up.

[Pescador]

I switched to H2O from Tropic Marin Pro because of supply problems and have been pretty happy with it but where TMP mixed up totally clean, H2O leaves a yellow-brown slime.
Any ideas what it's from?
Also for what it's worth H2O takes about 1 lb. more per 50 gals to get the same salinity.

[bigblack]

i just drop a powerhead in there with a heater and let it mix overnight in the bucket and i find that the residual that i use to get is almost all gone. And yes when mix 5 gallons of water to the seachems i use to use 2 and half to 3 cups and i find with the h20 i have to use 3 cup-ish to get 1.025.

[Stuart Bertram D-D]

I switched to H2O from Tropic Marin Pro because of supply problems and have been pretty happy with it but where TMP mixed up totally clean, H2O leaves a yellow-brown slime.
Any ideas what it's from?
Also for what it's worth H2O takes about 1 lb. more per 50 gals to get the same salinity.

The brown deposit that you are describing is actually composed of small amounts of insoluble material, mostly ferric oxide which is added to the salt with one of boosting additives and is completely inert. In fact it has the potential to act as a flocculent, binding any soluble organic polymers and orthophosphate so that it can be easily removed by the skimmer thus contributing to the quality of the water.

As people have commented negatively on the aesthetics of this occasional deposit we have now changed the supply of the additive so that this is no longer present.

As far as the mix ratio is concerned - the actual mix should be 39.6g / lt whereas a check that we made with some Tropic Marine Pro required 41.2g / lt to give the same salinity.

Remember that the mix is done by weight/volume of water and so to measure in cups per gallon is very rough as it depends on how dry the salt is and how fine/compacted it is.

The correct mix according to my calculation is 1lb of salt to 3.025 US gallons of water to get a salinity of 35.5ppt or an SG at 25C of 1.025.

Remember that the most important thing is how good the tank looks and how healthy the corals appear to be. Do not fall into the trap of the pilot who flies into a mountain because his instruments tell him he is high enough to miss it - use your eyes and observe the differences in your tank.

Cheers

Stuart

[Aquatic Addictions]

We carry the H2O salt and have been extremely impressed with it to the point that I have even changed the store into using it as the only salt for our tanks. Cost wise it may be more but when you factor in having less losses and happier fish and corals...I wouldnt go back:mrgreen:.

Of course we carry other brands as there is no changing everyone until they see the difference for themselves:biggrin:

Dan

[Pescador]

The brown deposit that you are describing is actually composed of small amounts of insoluble material, mostly ferric oxide which is added to the salt with one of boosting additives and is completely inert. In fact it has the potential to act as a flocculent, binding any soluble organic polymers and orthophosphate so that it can be easily removed by the skimmer thus contributing to the quality of the water.

As people have commented negatively on the aesthetics of this occasional deposit we have now changed the supply of the additive so that this is no longer present.

As far as the mix ratio is concerned - the actual mix should be 39.6g / lt whereas a check that we made with some Tropic Marine Pro required 41.2g / lt to give the same salinity.

Remember that the mix is done by weight/volume of water and so to measure in cups per gallon is very rough as it depends on how dry the salt is and how fine/compacted it is.

The correct mix according to my calculation is 1lb of salt to 3.025 US gallons of water to get a salinity of 35.5ppt or an SG at 25C of 1.025.

Remember that the most important thing is how good the tank looks and how healthy the corals appear to be. Do not fall into the trap of the pilot who flies into a mountain because his instruments tell him he is high enough to miss it - use your eyes and observe the differences in your tank.

Cheers

Stuart

Thanks for the great reply, you answered all my questions. And my tank is looking great.

[dkcrx]

Wow lots of great info in this thread, I'm going to switch over from Instant ocean to H2O.

[cav~firez22]

I made the switch. running my 135 & red sea on it. Colors of corals are awesome. Of course im using Zeo too :)

[TonyR]

Ive been using H20 for about a year now and my corals always respond well after a water change.Coral colours became richer,especially the reds.
I was a pleasantly suprised that i was able to use the salt without any calcium,Alk or magnesium additions as i had to previously with another well known salt.

[patpare]

I know,I know this is an old thread but i'm thinking of switching salt from Reefer's best to this H2o salt.Reason is i can get H2o localy and the Reefer's best i have to order.
So i wanna know if everyone is still happy with this salt.
Thank you

[Myka]

You guys get high Potassium readings on the H2Ocean salt? I have been getting 270-280 ppm in my buckets of H2Ocean.

Calcium 440 ppm (Elos)
Alkalinity 8 dKH (Elos)
Mg 1350 ppm (Salifert, double checked with Elos)
K 270-280 ppm (KZ)

[TonyR]

Hi

I have been getting on well with the H2O, my aquarium is still growing well.

With regards to the KZ kit beware as i have had a faulty kit in the past showing my aquarium and salt mix at 260.
I ended up overdosing Potassium chloride and killing a few corals. A fauna marin kit and a new KZ kit showed my Potassium was actually off the scale. Test a few aquariums and you will probably find they all read around 260 if the kit is faulty,