HELP!! Porcupine Puffer might be sick.

[alfredshouse]

New baby puffer hasnt been eating and since this morning has a bruise on the left eye. Puffer is housed in a 135gl with small Valentini Puffer and small Stars and Stripes Puffer. I have attached a picture any insight on what this could be?:question: Thanks!!!!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

How big is the Stars and Stripes (I know you said small but even 8" or 10" is small for a S&S :D )? Looks like it COULD be a bite mark but hard to tell. Any aggression? Some puffers will go for the eyes when fighting.

A 135G is way too small for a Stars and Stripes (pushing it for a porc really), so hopefully he is going to at least a 200G eventually or you may have problems.

If you haven't seen aggression then it could be some kind of infection. Is the eye cloudy at all? Doesn't look like it from the picture I guess. Are you sure its not just his coloring? How long have you had him?

[alfredshouse]

Stars and Stripes is about 3 inches and they dont seem to mind each other. I havent seen any aggression, but who knows at night. It doenst really look like a bite to me, it looks more like a bruise. I got him on Friday from JL and I havent been able to get him to eat yet. Im planning on a 300gl for them in the future and using the 135 for a sump. Thank you for your help and I loved your comment about my free fish ad. LOL

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

LOL. Well it just seemed funny to ask "only one?" when someone is offering a free fish!

Anyway...If you don't see aggression and the porc seems to be acting ok then I wouldn't worry too much at this point. Get him eating first.

Generally S&S and Porcs get along very well, so I doubt you will have problems.

If he really won't eat, try soaking some prawn in garlic and putting it on a feeding stick. Keep the S&S away somehow (good luck) and try gently rubbing the food right on the porc mouth. He will probably shy away but kind of persist and try like once an hour for a while. Don't stress him too much but just kind of follow him with the food on a stick and rub it on his teeth. Eventually they will often bite either realizing its food or out of frustration. Either way, he will probably like it and want more ;)

Just keep trying meaty foods like prawn or squid to start. Although squid is harder to chew, so I would stick to prawn for now.

If that doesn't work, I have other ways that have worked but thats usually the best.

Good luck!

He is very, very cute :)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

This looks like Puffer teeth marks to me but its hard to tell. You will be able to see better. Does it look like two "U" shapes? Like this: ()

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/Elliot.jpg

[my2rotties]

OMG!!! They are so cute when they are babies.

My big puffer was really picky with eating, unless it was a clownfish. To keep the bioload down in my tank, I get the raw seafood mix from the supermarket. It has squid, cuttlefish, mussels, clams, octopus and prawns or shrimp in it. I put it all in my blender with a few cloves of garlic, selcon and RO water. I blend it up (fried my blender the last time), put it out onto a cookie sheet and freeze it. I then cut it into cubes and Griffie (my puffer) goes nuts for it.

He devours it and would eat himself to death if I kept feeding him since he is bottomless. All the other fish come and wait for him to eat since he chows it down and tidbits blow out his gills. Because the uneaten portions melt and go into my overflow, into filter socks and the skimmer, my tank stay very clean. I have no spikes in ammonia or nitrates at all anymore.

When I tried prawns or shrimp he did not care for it and they would be rotting on the bottom of my tank. This has worked very well for me and Griffie and he is very healthy and robust. I don't know how well I am duplicating his natural diet but he is doing very well.

Good luck with your baby, he is adorable. I think GSP is right about the bite and perhaps he got it at the store prior to coming home with you. You may not have noticed it until now, since you have had a chance to admire him for awhile.

This is what you little baby will look like some day. My guy is huge and is about 9" long now. He has grown a little since I bought him. One of the pictures he has puffed up (my tang got in the way of the shot), and he does this whenever he has eaten something (snails) he shouldn't and needs to digest it.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo330/my2rotties/005.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo330/my2rotties/corals026.jpg

[alfredshouse]

His eye is now cloudy and I cant get him to eat. Ive tried feeding him with a target skewer and he wont take it. Ive tried food soaked in garlic, mysis, clam, squid and krill. He is very inactive and Im really worried. Any advice is really appreciated. thanks!!:cry::cry::cry:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Bump...anyone have a good med for treating an eye infection you can recommend?

[my2rotties]

Does your little guy have places to hide. I know Griffie loves his caves and tunnels. I also know Griffie is more nocturnal, and is pretty inactive during the day. When he came home I spent hours building tunnels and caves for my puffer.

Perhaps after lights out you might see the little fellow venture out more. He is so tiny perhaps he is a little overwhelmed with all the attention and activity. I know with the food Griff did not have much interest in prawns and such. He really LOVES the frozen pureed blend of seafood mix I mentioned before.

I also noticed Griff did not have a huge interest in food for the first few days after coming home. He did eat, but until I started making his "puffer chow", he was not anything like his now. He ate my clownfish before he ate prawns.

I don't know what medication you can give him. My LFS gave me orange gel caps for my sick Majestic angel. I never asked what they were since I was more concerned about making her better and getting instructions on dosing the meds.

I hope we are all concerned about nothing and he just needs time to adapt. I have never seen such a little puffer before. I would imagine he is very overwhelmed with being caught, transported, going to the store and now a new tank. That is a lot for a little baby to absorb in a short period of time. I am hoping the bite might be from the LFS prior to him coming home. GIve him a little space to hide from everyone else at night time in case he is being picked on by the others.

Was he in a tank with other puffers at the store?

[alfredshouse]

found him this morning dead.

[my2rotties]

Oh geez I am so very sorry about your loss. They are such wonderful fish. That really sucks.

[belzebuth]

So sorry for you lost Tammy:sad:

[alfredshouse]

I phoned them this morning and explained what had happened and they sad that they will not replace any fish. I bought lots of fish before that have died,I mean we all have. BUT, this fish was damaged when I got him. I think that they should replace the fish. They are going to lose 2 customers because of it, but Im sure this means nothing to them. thanks for listening to me vent.:hurt:

[Rbacchiega]

bah, sorry to hear this.

Only thing I can reccomend is possibly dividing the tank somehow when adding another puffer until the are comparable in size...

Sorry again...

[alfredshouse]

That is really good advice and I will do that next time. Thank you!!!!!!

[Rbacchiega]

Not a problem. I've used the method countless times when adding agressive freshwater fish in with one another, so I don't see why it wouldn't work for saltwater.

[my2rotties]

Maybe if you went to the store and pitched a fit, they would help you out. It is easy to say no when you are not face to face...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I phoned them this morning and explained what had happened and they sad that they will not replace any fish. I bought lots of fish before that have died,I mean we all have. BUT, this fish was damaged when I got him. I think that they should replace the fish. They are going to lose 2 customers because of it, but Im sure this means nothing to them. thanks for listening to me vent.:hurt:

Yeah they really don't do this for anyone who looses a fish. I love the shop but this is the one thing I have always found weird. Even Big Als replaced a fish that I got which died three days later. No questions asked.

I lost 6 Scissor Tail gobies over the past few weeks and I feel they were sick to begin with (because other fish in my tank never just die and the gobies are suppose to be tough) and I should be able to get a credit or something. But I will not even bother asking since I know it won't happen ;)

Like I said, great, great shop but I have never understood their policy or lack of one for fish that die within a few days. Many of the places I used to shop at in the US would just ask that you bring the fish in or take pics and sometimes a water sample. Then replace it or give you a credit. Seems easy enough but I guess they don't want to take the loss.

[belzebuth]

Great shop but the last 3 fish I purchased there were all sick:sad: Not sure if I will keep on buying livestock from this place...There policy is a little bit sketchy.

[Borderjumper]

You guys are saying the fish you purchased were injured or sick.. Why then are you buying them?

I can understand a no refund policy completly on fish and corals purchased in person.. your there observing the fish or coral..and your making the decision to purchase. Ive bought a few at my own risk that I thought might be sketchy.. but I wanted them enough to take the risk.

BUT I think buying online or off a website is different, as you are taking their word or deciding from the pics they post, that the fish or coral is healthy. IMO if a sick or injured fish is shipped then replacement should be an option.

[Rbacchiega]

Good point Borderjumper.

When considering a fish in the LFS I'll tell them I'm interested in it and ask them to put it on hold a couple of days. A decent LFS will do this for a customer. Then I'll take a look at it over the next few days and if I'm happy with it THEN I'll buy it. There have been plenty of times where I won't buy a fish after looking at it for a few days

[Borderjumper]

Ive actually sat in front of a tank and watched a fish for an hour.. also if there is one visably sick fish in the tank you might as well pass as the whole tank has been exposed.. and ask if the tank is on a shared system.

One question I always ask now after a bad discus experiance is if the tank is on a UV sterilizer. I wont buy the fish it it is.

[my2rotties]

Most puffers I see at the store lay on the bottom of the tanks and don't really do all that much. They are active at night and sleep during the day. When I bought Griff, I had many to choose from and he was just super active and had been in the store for a few months. It was also five minutes to closing time and it was night time for him, so he was out. Some fish are difficult to buy since their natural habits are hard to assess in the store. Some injuries could happen just prior to purchase and the bruising and damage may not show up right away.

I think they should have given her another fish since she just wanted to help him instead of rush him back for an exchange while he was still alive. I'm sure they would have taken him back alive. Mind you I don't know anything about this store. I'm sure he didn't even cost all that much but it is not about the money most of the time. It's a little life and puffers are quite endearing.

Having a dead fish in the morning really sucks especially after trying so hard to save it.

[my2rotties]

Why is that? I am just curious just to learn to be a better buyer in the future.I have UV on my system and thought it is an excellent investment.

Ive actually sat in front of a tank and watched a fish for an hour.. also if there is one visably sick fish in the tank you might as well pass as the whole tank has been exposed.. and ask if the tank is on a shared system.

One question I always ask now after a bad discus experiance is if the tank is on a UV sterilizer. I wont buy the fish it it is.

[Rbacchiega]

Just what I was about to ask. I only run UV sometimes, havn't ever run it on my Discus, but have occasionally run it on my SW tanks.

[alfredshouse]

these are all really good points. Im thinking the fish may have been injured during bagging,cause it looked great before.But Ill never know. I can say that I did learn alot from this experience. From now on I will watch the fish for awhile and I will also watch them bag it.

[Borderjumper]

this is just from my personal experiance, but its like buying a fish in a bubble.. its been in basically sterile water.. and I take it home and put it my healthy, but far from sterile tank. I think its ok in your personal tank cause the fish isnt being re-homed, but IMO it lowers a fishs resistance and if that fish is moved into a new enviroment that is not as sterile.. its going to be exposed to stuff it has no resistance to.

[my2rotties]

That makes perfect sense and thank you for sharing.

this is just from my personal experiance, but its like buying a fish in a bubble.. its been in basically sterile water.. and I take it home and put it my healthy, but far from sterile tank. I think its ok in your personal tank cause the fish isnt being re-homed, but IMO it lowers a fishs resistance and if that fish is moved into a new enviroment that is not as sterile.. its going to be exposed to stuff it has no resistance to.

[Rbacchiega]

Very interesting. Makes sense too. But if you're running UV at home and the store is aswell, wouldn't it be fine? I only run UV when I notice something isn't quite right with my fish. For example, noticed the new CBB had what looked like a burn near the base of his pectoral fin. Ran UV for the last 3 days and it's cleared up. Odd indeed.

[Borderjumper]

I dont run UV.. I like my buggy tank:mrgreen: but I do have a big honkin one I set up when I see a problem, like an ich spot . Im just not a believer in running one all the time. Again, its JMO as I have never run one for more than a few days.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

You guys are saying the fish you purchased were injured or sick.. Why then are you buying them?

I can understand a no refund policy completly on fish and corals purchased in person.. your there observing the fish or coral..and your making the decision to purchase. Ive bought a few at my own risk that I thought might be sketchy.. but I wanted them enough to take the risk.

BUT I think buying online or off a website is different, as you are taking their word or deciding from the pics they post, that the fish or coral is healthy. IMO if a sick or injured fish is shipped then replacement should be an option.

I never buy a fish I think is sick. Pretty much a no brainer. I am not so sure many people would. LOL.

I always ask to see them eat and watch them for a bit. Usually try to wait until they have been in the shop for a few weeks even.

In my case, they were fine for a few days and then suddenly started dying. No signs of stress and they were eating fine. No aggression towards them (I work from home and watch the tank all day)...not sure what went wrong but like I said, I don't even bring it up anymore when I am in there once or twice a week.

But I am not bashing the store...I know the policy and can go other places if I don't like it. I still think a majority of their livestock is in excellent condition and have had very few problems over the years.