Tank transfer didn't go well

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well it didn't go well at all. I have the worst luck with transfers :(

So I simply moved everything over in old tank water two nights ago. Added 5G at a time of newly mixed water (mixed for a full day in advance). It ended up being about 40% new water that was matched for salinity, temp. and alk. I have done water changes this big before, so thought it wouldn't be a big deal.

I rinsed out some sand in old tank water and added that. Really not much at all. about half the tanks bottom is bare. I just want a bit for looks.

Everything seemed to go really well but the next morning, three of my nicer, big sps colonies were either completely dead or receding. Then this morning I noticed a gorgonian is dying and also my birdsnest is dying. The birdsnest is kind of loosing flesh in random spots :( This one kills me because its one of my favorites.

Everything else looks really good though. Makes no sense to me :(

[Borderjumper]

awww thats crappy! Im sorry to hear it didnt go well.

[Leah]

Sometimes it can really suck, good luck with all the rest hope it get's better.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well I can add a few digitata to the list and two cap frags :(

Hope this doesn't keep getting worse.

I just don't see what I did wrong.

[Borderjumper]

Ive done 3 tank transfers and never had anything skip a beat. Only thing I did different from you was I didnt transfer ANY sand.. I bought new.

Was there lottsa crap in the sand and did it rinse pretty clean?

How does the tank test today for ammonia or nitrates?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ive done 3 tank transfers and never had anything skip a beat. Only thing I did different from you was I didnt transfer ANY sand.. I bought new.

Was there lottsa crap in the sand and did it rinse pretty clean?

How does the tank test today for ammonia or nitrates?

The sand was very clean. I was surprised. I only used the very top layer. When I "cleaned" it, the water I cleaned it in, only got a slight beige color. This sand that I used was only in my old tank about a month.

I checked nitrates and they were 5 but I haven't checked ammonia. I will check everything again now.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Temp. 79
SG. 1.027 (a little high I know)
PH 8.4

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 8
Alk 7.5

[Delphinus]

I'm sorry to hear this. My guess is it's a cycle of some kind. If it were me, I'd throw some Cycle or some Zeobak or whatever into the water, I figure it couldn't hurt. Good luck!

[Borderjumper]

after you skimmed off the top layer of sand did you use the water? Jeeze how can I type this so it makes sense, its harder to type than to talk :razz:

The top layer of sand is usually cleaner, not only visually but bacterially.. so when you skimmed off the top layer maybe leaving the bottom gunge layer exposed released somthing into the water.. or did you not use that water?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

after you skimmed off the top layer of sand did you use the water? Jeeze how can I type this so it makes sense, its harder to type than to talk :razz:

The top layer of sand is usually cleaner, not only visually but bacterially.. so when you skimmed off the top layer maybe leaving the bottom gunge layer exposed released somthing into the water.. or did you not use that water?

No didn't use that water. I transfered everything over to the new tank except the sand and about an inch or two of old water. Then I siphoned out the top layer of sand and the rest of the water to a bucket. Rinsed it out in there, sand went to the new tank, water was thrown away. So even if it released anything into the water, that water was never used.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm sorry to hear this. My guess is it's a cycle of some kind. If it were me, I'd throw some Cycle or some Zeobak or whatever into the water, I figure it couldn't hurt. Good luck!

Yeah maybe. If it was though, it was very small. Not to mention, some of my more delicate SPS are fine. Its not like all the delicate stuff died and the hardy stuff made it. Actually almost the other way around. Most of the dead sps are tough species.

I have noticed one more acro now that looks to be receding from the tips a bit. Should I frag the branches off now do you think??? This is another of my favorites :(

[High tide]

That totally sucks! What kind of salt did you use? Generally a bad idea to reuse sand, it upsets the ecology and things you can't even see die by the thousands. That being said, I've done it successfully several times. I think it could be shock from the transfer and such a large water change at the same time.

[High tide]

Did you putty down your corals?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

That totally sucks! What kind of salt did you use? Generally a bad idea to reuse sand, it upsets the ecology and things you can't even see die by the thousands. That being said, I've done it successfully several times. I think it could be shock from the transfer and such a large water change at the same time.

Well thats why I asked here and at RC and both places got about 90% of people saying to reuse some of the sand after rinsing it. I honestly don't think its the sand or I would have had some kind of spike in ammonia and then nitrates. My nitrates are lower now than before the move. As for the water change, I have my doubts as well unless something bad was in the water. There is no way a 40% change should harm a tank if its done properly.

I am using the Deltec salt.

Did you putty down your corals?

No everything was already encrusted to rocks. I did superglue gel a few frags that broke off rocks but thats out of the tank and I have been doing that for years with no problems.

I don't know...like I said, I was so careful about how I did this and really made sure it was quick and parameters stayed the same. The only obvious change for some of the corals would be flow.

[Borderjumper]

If the sand released anaerobic bacteria you wouldnt see it and tests wouldnt pick it up. This also could mess with the oxygen in your tank.. fish ok?

I dont think flow change would kill them this fast.

[High tide]

I have never used Deltec salt, but I know some salts take a couple days to dissolve properly. Flow changes would not trigger RTN throughout your tank. Unless there is some information you left out, the stress of the transfer and a 40% water change with freshly mixed salt resonates. I never do a water change when I transfer a tank, too much change at once is detrimental to SPS. Ideally you would have started the new tank slowly with some water from your old tank and some live rock, while doing small fresh water change in your established tank prior to transfer.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

If the sand released anaerobic bacteria you wouldnt see it and tests wouldnt pick it up. This also could mess with the oxygen in your tank.. fish ok?

I dont think flow change would kill them this fast.

I would be amazed if anaerobic bacteria was able to colonize 1 month old sand, especially the very top layer. But I guess thats possible. Just that from what I read, it takes a while. Would make sense though if thats what happened.

Fish are fine. Water is crystal clear and actually I was amazed at how clear it stayed through the whole process.

One thing I learned from this was that my old tank was VERY clean. No detritus anywhere. I was super happy about that.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have never used Deltec salt, but I know some salts take a couple days to dissolve properly. Flow changes would not trigger RTN throughout your tank. Unless there is some information you left out, the stress of the transfer and a 40% water change with freshly mixed salt resonates. I never do a water change when I transfer a tank, too much change at once is detrimental to SPS. Ideally you would have started the new tank slowly with some water from your old tank and some live rock, while doing small fresh water change in your established tank prior to transfer.

That wasn't possible. It had to be done all at once.

I still don't see why the transfer would have really caused these kind of problem. Obviously it did but it still doesn't make sense to me. There really were not many changes. The corals were out of the old tank and in the new tank within 30 minutes.

I guess it must have to do with the water change, new tank having something bad in it (I did clean it though with RO water) or just my luck :D

FWIW, I always mix my salt a day before or less and have never had any problems over the past 6 years.

[Lance]

Jeez! Sorry to hear this. IMO you did just about everything you could have in the transfer. Something obviously got out of whack, but why? Hopefully everything else makes it.

[High tide]

That wasn't possible. It had to be done all at once.

I still don't see why the transfer would have really caused these kind of problem. Obviously it did but it still doesn't make sense to me. There really were not many changes. The corals were out of the old tank and in the new tank within 30 minutes.

I guess it must have to do with the water change, new tank having something bad in it (I did clean it though with RO water) or just my luck :D

FWIW, I always mix my salt a day before or less and have never had any problems over the past 6 years.

I hear ya, it's not always an ideal situation when doing a big job like that. Sounds like your salt dissolves quickly. All we can do is try and learn something from it to save our asses next time. Hopefully the death will stop soon and you can enjoy your new tank!:wink:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I hear ya, it's not always an ideal situation when doing a big job like that. Sounds like your salt dissolves quickly. All we can do is try and learn something from it to save our asses next time. Hopefully the death will stop soon and you can enjoy your new tank!:wink:

Yeah originally I wanted to do exactly what you had described and go really slow but it just wasn't going to work well. For one, I don't have enough equipment for both tanks (even just to keep good circulation) and two I didn't have nearly enough water or space. The new tank is quite wide and so even when I had just filled it with established tank water, it was under half full. Plus most of my corals are already encrusted to rocks. You can't even see the putty or superglue anymore to remove them. So most corals had to go with the rocks.

Perhaps it was the salt though or big water change...

Its either that or the sand I think. Will never know I guess.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Jeez! Sorry to hear this. IMO you did just about everything you could have in the transfer. Something obviously got out of whack, but why? Hopefully everything else makes it.

I had thought so. Don't think I am going to figure this one out.

Still what baffles me the most is that some of the hardy stuff like monti caps, birdsnest and gorgonians died??? So weird.

[Whatigot]

may not be anything you did.
It's odd that some more delicate specimens made it some that were hardier did not.
Odd that your prams seem good and odd that you didnt do anything different than the 5 or 6 times I've had to move a reef and got few if any losses.


we're missing a piece of this puzzle and may never get it...
I guess thats aquaria for you sometimes, no matter how much you play by the book you just can't win em all.

[michika]

Wow that just flat out sucks.

In all my previous tank moves/upgrades I did EXACTLY what you did, right down to the rinsing of the sand, etc. Everything was always fine. Although the one time I didn't transfer the sand at all, I had a crash, but I also moved from Edmonton to Calgary...so who knows with that.

I hope everything improves, or maybe you can create some frags and send them to heal in a friends tank. At least then you might have a chance of keeping something that might otherwise not make it.

[Doug]

Sorry to hear about this GSP. Truly unfortunate. I have switched tanks more than most, {but thats another story,:lol:}. Seldom any acro or other sps losses. Now that I have said that, my stuff is moving from my 20g to my 30g this weekend, so hope I never jinxed myself.

Cant see salt mix being a problem. Lots of times, I have mixed a major cganhe for only a couple hrs. no problem. Most of my tank changes have been like yours. Part old water and part new water. Have not done sand changes in awile but when we moved Mike,s from his 120 to his 150, we moved most of his sandbed, which he did rinse well prior to putting it in the new tank. And we left the sand over night before moving more, so not sure if that helped or not.

A few years back, the one time I did have a problem and lost many sps and clams on a tank move, was an alkalinity issue with then new water. How many of us measure the alk. of the new water? For sure back then I never. Do now though.

Other than that I,m at a loss.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

may not be anything you did.
It's odd that some more delicate specimens made it some that were hardier did not.
Odd that your prams seem good and odd that you didnt do anything different than the 5 or 6 times I've had to move a reef and got few if any losses.


we're missing a piece of this puzzle and may never get it...
I guess thats aquaria for you sometimes, no matter how much you play by the book you just can't win em all.

Yup, something is missing but I can't figure out what. Some good ideas have been brought up but most of them I think are things I was aware of before the move and did my best to compensate for. Just going to be one of those mysteries.

I am amazed that this hasn't really affected my acros more. A horn coral dies overnight??? Those things have always been indestructible in my tanks, same with birdsnest. I didn't even realize birdsnest could die ;)

One of the acros that died had only been in my tank a few weeks and come from another members tank, so perhaps all the moves were too much.

Wow that just flat out sucks.

In all my previous tank moves/upgrades I did EXACTLY what you did, right down to the rinsing of the sand, etc. Everything was always fine. Although the one time I didn't transfer the sand at all, I had a crash, but I also moved from Edmonton to Calgary...so who knows with that.

I hope everything improves, or maybe you can create some frags and send them to heal in a friends tank. At least then you might have a chance of keeping something that might otherwise not make it.

I may frag some of the colonies that are receding still but probably just keep them in the tank to see what happens. Its not like they are rare or anything. I can get them again.

It just sucks because most of them were getting quite big and I can't afford to replace all this stuff anytime soon. I actually think I am going to just keep whatever sps lives and then add more LPS instead of new sps. Even a few more softies.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Sorry to hear about this GSP. Truly unfortunate. I have switched tanks more than most, {but thats another story,:lol:}. Seldom any acro or other sps losses. Now that I have said that, my stuff is moving from my 20g to my 30g this weekend, so hope I never jinxed myself.

Cant see salt mix being a problem. Lots of times, I have mixed a major cganhe for only a couple hrs. no problem. Most of my tank changes have been like yours. Part old water and part new water. Have not done sand changes in awile but when we moved Mike,s from his 120 to his 150, we moved most of his sandbed, which he did rinse well prior to putting it in the new tank. And we left the sand over night before moving more, so not sure if that helped or not.

A few years back, the one time I did have a problem and lost many sps and clams on a tank move, was an alkalinity issue with then new water. How many of us measure the alk. of the new water? For sure back then I never. Do now though.

Other than that I,m at a loss.

Thanks Doug.

I thought alk right away too but I did actually test my new water and the old water. The new water was 8 and the old water 7ish, maybe closer to 7.5 (I am using Elos and it started to change colors inbetween drops kind of). So it was a little different but once I mixed the new water in, I tested and got 7.5. A day and a half later and I am still getting 7.5, so alk has stayed steady.

I guess I should mention, I have a lot of sps and even though I lost some of the bigger colonies, its maybe only about 15% loss. The tank doesn't look bare or anything. Infact it looks decent and now has plenty of room to grow. The problem is I lost some of my favorites :(

[fmelindy]

I have done a few tank transfers in my day (moved a lot), but the only time I ever had anything like this happen (and it was exactly like this) was the only time I reused the sand, so naturally I blame the sand. It was a total and complete tank meltdown within a few days of moving, beginning immediately after setting up the new tank. Sorry to hear about your losses, I feel for you.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have done a few tank transfers in my day (moved a lot), but the only time I ever had anything like this happen (and it was exactly like this) was the only time I reused the sand, so naturally I blame the sand. It was a total and complete tank meltdown within a few days of moving, beginning immediately after setting up the new tank. Sorry to hear about your losses, I feel for you.

Thanks. Well I hope this doesn't continue and become a total meltdown. Next time I think I would just skip using the old sand all together.

EDIT: Actually the latest acro that I thought was receding from a few tips was one that had fallen into another acro yesterday, so I think its fine and just damaged from that.

The lights are on now and all the remaining corals look really great actually. No signs of any new stress. The birdsnest has not receded anymore but I think I will frag it tonight to make sure it doesn't spread.

[mark]

No ideas but hope things come back

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

No ideas but hope things come back

Well no new casualties today. The birdsnest seems to have stopped receding but I have a funny feeling its a goner. I have been told though that birdsnest can be tough with moving tanks.

Everything that died seemed to die by yesterday morning, so perhaps thats it. I hope.

There was one acro I though was going but then I remembered it had lost a battle when falling into another acro, so I think its fine. Looks fine anyways.

All in all, if that it for deaths, I would have to say it DID go ok. Fish are fine. Most corals look good or even better. The tank overall looks much, much better than my old tank. Its just that much bigger and was very nice to aquascape 30" from front to back.

[Jack]

Any pictures?

[fishoholic]

Sorry to hear that some of your favorites are gone :sad:

[RnR]

That sucks man Cant tell u what happened but everytime i've transfered my tank i've used all sand{small rinse} and added at least 40% new water never had any problems. Went from 33g to a new 33g then to a 75g then 5 months later to a 90g with no problems. Hope everything works out.

[TheRealBigAL]

Sorry for your losses man.

[johncody]

Man GSP so sorry to hear about the move. Hasen't been a good month for us . thats for sure..
Cheers bud

JC

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Man GSP so sorry to hear about the move. Hasen't been a good month for us . thats for sure..
Cheers bud

JC

Well nothing has died the past two days now and my birdsnest seems to be fine now although some dead spots remain. I may still frag it.

I still have some concerns for a green acros that has what looks like slightly receding tips but at the same time has incredible color and polyp extension.

But I can't complain after seeing what you have had to deal with today :(

[Drock169]

Good to see your back on Fred.

Justin, not sure how you do your water changes. But you could've had a contaminated bucket, I know a few people that has had that happen to them, although its usually the fish that die first with contaminated buckets