SmallFry's first tank.. (27g FOWLR)

[SmallFry]

Thought I'd keep a log of how it's going - you never know, someone might be interested! :biggrin:

So after what seemed like ages, I finally got some water mixed up and in the tank, I also got my hands on a couple of pieces of live rock from the local LFS. It doesn't look like much (because it isn't!), but I plan to use mostly dry rock...

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/live_rock.jpg

I chose these pieces because they had plenty of coralline algae on them, which I was hoping would spread. The rock had been in the LFS tank for a good while, so it was well cured, and only had a 10 minute trip home, so no die off to speak of - a brittle star, some polyps and a few fans made it through, the brittle star was wandering around the tank for a week or so, but has since mysteriously disappeared . I did try putting tiny bit of food in the bottom of the tank so he didn't starve, but he's just vanished - no body or anything, I suspect unless we get CSI fish tank I'll never know...

The rock was just left to do it's thing for a good while as I was waiting for the dry rock, the odd thing is, that right from the start, even before the rock went in, I've had ammonia (it was RO water), not that much - 0.5ppm, but still there. No nitrates, nitrites, just ammonia... The new live rock carried on getting greener and greener (I was letting it have light to try not to kill the coralline). I thought it was the nitrate that fueled the algae, but still no nitrate to speak of.

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/empty_tank.jpg

See how green/brown the rocks are now...

This went on for weeks.. In the end I added some "cycle", I know there are a lot of people who say it's rubbish, but I thought it was worth a try for the $8 from wal-mart..

Four days later, I have 3.0ppm Nitrite, 17ppm Nitrate, and STILL 0.5ppm ammonia. So something must be generating the ammonia, beats me what, unless it's the brittle star (how much ammonia do you get from a dead brittle star, I wonder)..

The dry rock arrived (South Seas), it has plenty of structure to provide hiding places for the inmates when I can get rid of the pesky ammonia..

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/south_seas_rock.jpg

Some of it was a little gritty, and there were some (not many) very fine roots in some of it. It was scrubbed in warm tap water, rinsed again, then thoroughly rinsed in RO water. Incidentally, it's quite rough stuff, so don't do this in your nice new bathtub... :biggrin:

Then I got to try my hand at aquascaping...

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/aquascaping.jpg

You may just be able to make out a partition in the back left corner of the tank, this is something I made out of acrylic from home depot to keep livestock away from intakes and heaters. Hopefully there'll be some growth over it to hide all the hardware eventually. All I can say is that bending acrylic with a camp stove is an interesting process, and I ended up drilling over 800 holes with a battery drill.. :neutral:


As of today, my ammonia is still at 0.5ppm (never seems to go higher), nitrite still at 3ppm, and nitrate the far side of 20ppm. And the live rock is getting hairy... Still has live polyps and fans on it though.. What I'm wondering is should I do a big water change to get rid of some of that nitrate, or should I wait till the ammonia bottoms out (whenever that happens..)?

Any suggestions/comments?

[Myka]

Looks like a good start!! You should definately do a 50% waterchange to get rid of some nitrates. You will find you will probably fight nitrates for the first 8 months or so while the dry rock establishes a good bacteria colony. If you can add a few more pieces of live rock this will speed up the process. Take a sample of your water to your LFS and get them to test ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Maybe your kits are off. What brand are you using?

[SmallFry]

Hi,

Thanks for the advice on the water change. I'd read you weren't supposed to change the water while cycling unless the ammonia got high enough to kill your live rock, but this was looking a bit weird, so I didn't really know what to do..

Ammonia test is API, the rest are done off Mardel test strips - I'm beginning to think that maybe the latter were a mistake though...

I think taking a sample to the LFS is probably a good idea.

I think I get what you mean about the nitrates with mostly dry rock - takes a long time for the anaerobic bacteria that get rid of the nitrates to establish..

I know that the nitrate must be coming from the ammonia, but I'm at a bit of a loss to explain why the ammonia isn't dropping as the nitrate rises - no food in the tank for several weeks, and nothing I can see dying off apart (maybe) from a small brittle star. Could that create that much ammonia?

I'll get the water tested and set up for the water change and see what happens..

[Myka]

I don't think your source of ammonia is the starfish. If your tank is showing nitrates then the cycle is well on its way. A small amount of ammonia like you have can linger in the tank for a few weeks before it seems to "break", but I am not convinced as there is so little live rock in your tank. Even the 17 ppm of nitrates seems questionable to me. Let us know what the LFS says about your testings. The dip strips that you are using aren't very accurate, and I have never liked API, others do though. Hopefully your LFS will use high-quality test kits like Elos or Salifert.

[Doug]

:wave:
Hi. Good to see another from around here on the board.


Welcome
to Canreef

:mrgreen:

[BlueAbyss]

:wave:
Hi. Good to see another from around here on the board.

:mrgreen:


+1

:grouphug:

:welcome:

You guys are all in the south though, where a LFS is actually local. :wink:

[SmallFry]

:wave:
Hi. Good to see another from around here on the board.


Welcome
to Canreef

:mrgreen:


+1

:grouphug:

:welcome:

You guys are all in the south though, where a LFS is actually local. :wink:


Thanks for the welcome - does it ever strike you as ironic that we're keeping saltwater fish about as far away from the sea as you can get? :lol:

[SmallFry]

So it's been a good while since I updated this, mainly because until recently not a lot's been happening - I've been deliberately going slowly, especially as I've started off with very little live rock.

Oh, and the computer kind of temporarily died too... :neutral:

After talking to the people at the LFS, I bought a couple of Mollys to give the biological filter a bit of a kick (the tank had cycled at this point, I just wanted to get the bacteria colonies growing a bit). In hindsight this might not have been the best idea, but they have been eating some of that darn algae, though feeding them has probably been fuelling it too.
Thinking about it I also should've had a clean up crew before any fish, but hadn't found a source of these that didn't involve a lot of money for shipping a few snails.. I have now found somewhere that has them, so not a mistake I'll be making again!

The nitrates have bottomed out, though I think that may have something to do with the hair algae eating them all, ditto phosphates..

A while back I had an outbreak of cyanobacteria which was unpleasant to say the least. I think that basically I water changed my way out of trouble on this one - sucking off as much of it as possible each time and then running some phosphate media in an effort to mop up the phosphate before the cyanobacteria got to it. I now have some still, but much, much less than before..
I also now have a skimmer which is helping to keep things a little more under control too.

Having got that sorted I felt confident enough to get my first real saltwater fish, a tomato clown. He's a bit of a character, and gave the Mollys a bit of a run for their money in the beginning (both got small chunks taken out of their tails), but after a couple of days peace broke out and tails are almost back to normal.. The clown is quite a character, but does have one odd habit that I've no explanation for. He'll put his nose against a rock (usually the one in the corner of the tank below his lurking/sleeping spot and swim really hard for a second or so, sending sand just about everywhere and digging himself a hole in the process. There's now a heap of sand you may be able to see on the bottom right of the tank which is the result of his excavations. Any ideas what on earth he's up to??

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/aquarium_may_22.jpg

I also managed to get my hands on some critters for a clean up crew. I now have a couple of bumblebee snails, three zebra turbo snails and two blue legged hermits, though on closer inspection one turns out not to have blue legs. Oh well! I can see why hermits can be a problem if you get too many, they are just plain crazy. Entertaining, but crazy. :biggrin:

The turbo snails are putting in some hard work eating all that algae - it's going to take them a while to catch up as there are only three, but I prefer that than to have more of them and them run out of food and starve. In any case I'm pretty impressed with their work, all those clean patches on the rocks are the result of just under a weeks work.. I think given a few more weeks they'll be pretty near caught up.. Hopefully without that hair algae the corralline which is just starting to colonise will get a bit more light and make some more progress..

I'll try to update this a little more often in future..

[fishytime]

Looking good!.....just a heads up.....bumblebee snails arent reef-safe....they are predatory to other snails....dont know why lfs sell them as reef-safe?

[SmallFry]

Looking good!.....just a heads up.....bumblebee snails arent reef-safe....they are predatory to other snails....dont know why lfs sell them as reef-safe?

Uh-oh.. Will they go after the turbo snails (who are twice their size)? I was under the impression that they ate detritus from the sandbed when I bought them, though I heard afterwards that they went for worms and things like that, but not about the snails. Maybe I should evict them before they get too hungry i.e. while I still have all three zebra turbo snails? :biggrin:

I'm only FOWLR at the moment, but I plan to go reef when I upgrade - yes, only running for 5 months with a few fish, and I'm already sort of planning my upgrade (won't happen for a good while though)! This hobby is addictive - they should have warning stickers on all the tanks so you know before you buy one... :lol:

[fishytime]

This hobby is addictive - they should have warning stickers on all the tanks so you know before you buy one... :lol:

Definitely....and stickers that say " these snail eat other snails":mrgreen:

[SmallFry]

So another update..

The snails have been working hard over the past couple of weeks and the hermits have been doing their bit too. You can see a lot more white patches on the rocks now. It's taking a while but I think patience will be rewarded... Also I still have all the turbo snails - none have been eaten by the bumblebee snails (which seem to do a fat load of absolutely nothing).

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/fulltank_31_05_09.jpg

Unfortunately you'll also note that the Mollys have had their tails bitten again, so I'm trying to find a new home for them before they get eaten or stressed to death.

If I'm honest I didn't really appreciate quite how grumpy the clown would be... :neutral:

Anyway, now that I *have* a grumpy tomato clown, any suggestions as to what I could add now that won't get beaten up? I'd like a shrimp or two of some sort, and another fish or two. Would he go for the shrimp as well - if he did they probably wouldn't stand a chance - he's quick..

I'd wondered about a yellow headed jawfish and I like the coral beauty and flame angelfish, though I suspect adding either of the latter might be too much in my small tank - best left to after the inevitable upgrade?. Any thoughts or livestock suggestions appreciated. :biggrin:

The other option I'd considered was another tomato clown to make a pair (they'd be the only fish in there). Is my tank big enough for this, and could I do it without starting world war 3 in there?

Rob

[Doug]

As long as the clown does not see the newly introduced shrimp as food, they will be fine. I have seen large adult clowns eat small shrimp when being put into tank. Just make sure they are larger in size.

Its a crap shoot trying to introduce another clown. Could try a tiny one and see if she will accept it as a mate. Be prepared to remove it though if she beats on it. Most of our attempts at adding a mate for a larger clown, has failed.

Although your tank is on the bottom end of size for a coral beauty, with lots of rock it may be ok. Find one thats eating mysis at least and better yet mysis & spirolina flakes. They are a tough fish and a brute also, so as long as the tomato accepts it, which again is a question mark.

With a smaller tank like that and no corals, perhaps you could remove the clown to a holding tank while adding something else and then put the clown back. Perhaps even a smaller tomato. If you could get a pair of them to live together, that would be a nice and easy to keep pair of fish for your tank. For sure I would not add any other similar sized fish then, like the angel.

Or, you could add smaller tough fish like a royal gramma or some of the other dottybacks or something like a 6-line wrasse. They both are tough and as adults, are ignorant brutes like the clown. :lol:

[SmallFry]

As long as the clown does not see the newly introduced shrimp as food, they will be fine. I have seen large adult clowns eat small shrimp when being put into tank. Just make sure they are larger in size.

Its a crap shoot trying to introduce another clown. Could try a tiny one and see if she will accept it as a mate. Be prepared to remove it though if she beats on it. Most of our attempts at adding a mate for a larger clown, has failed.

Although your tank is on the bottom end of size for a coral beauty, with lots of rock it may be ok. Find one thats eating mysis at least and better yet mysis & spirolina flakes. They are a tough fish and a brute also, so as long as the tomato accepts it, which again is a question mark.

With a smaller tank like that and no corals, perhaps you could remove the clown to a holding tank while adding something else and then put the clown back. Perhaps even a smaller tomato. If you could get a pair of them to live together, that would be a nice and easy to keep pair of fish for your tank. For sure I would not add any other similar sized fish then, like the angel.

Or, you could add smaller tough fish like a royal gramma or some of the other dottybacks or something like a 6-line wrasse. They both are tough and as adults, are ignorant brutes like the clown. :lol:

Thanks for the pointers, the clown isn't actually that large - about 1.5 - 2". It isn't always attacking the Mollys - just every now and then it seems to have a hissy fit...

If I could find a clown that was smaller, perhaps remove the current clown to a rubbermaid for a while, add the new one, then return the old one - or would it take longer than you can keep one in a rubbermaid? If I do manage to get the clowns to pair up will they become even more territorial - not an issue if there's just them, but when I get a bigger tank and want more fish (when I get a bigger tank I'd like a yellow tang)? When you say the coral beauty is a brute too, does that mean they're likely to fight to the death or just not take any crap from one another?

I'm beginning to have second thoughts on the angels, as you say my tank is the bottom end of what's OK, and I'm getting the impression they can be a handful. Having said that, I do have nigh on 35lbs of rock in there - and algae is something I'm good at. :mrgreen:

[Doug]

The new clown would only need a day or two to become established. Dont want him to much so, as then he may be the territorial one, which could be the case anyways. Sometimes, unless introduced as a small pair, they are impossible to pair up.

Perhaps you could take the resident one out for a few days and then put the two back together at the same time and see what happens then, as neither is the established fish.

Yes, the coral beauty is just good at defending itself but can become a bully after being in a tank for awile and new fish are introduced, esp. in a smaller tank.

If your upgrading in the future, then the coral beauty could be added to the larger tank, when the yellow tang is. Both are very capable of looking after themselves. Thats the best option for angels, even the smaller ones.

[SmallFry]

So another update - the Mollys have a new home and I've been to the fish shop again! :biggrin:

I had been wondering what I should add next that would keep up with the clown. The options were a 'friend' (hopefully more than that :biggrin:) for the clown, or a coral beauty or a flame angel and maybe something else small. What was available at the time made much of the decision for me - no small clowns, no flame angel, but a nice looking coral beauty that seemed active, ate, had no itch or anything, and had been there for a couple of months. I figured if it'd survived a couple of months there shouldn't be too much wrong with it..
I also got a small royal gramma who is an interesting little character and is apparently able to swallow things up to about half his size. Still not sure quite how he does it...

The Coral Beauty
http://www.mts.net/~sempers/Blueberry.jpg

The Royal Gramma
http://www.mts.net/~sempers/Rhubarb.jpg

Everyone seems to be happy and eating well. The Gramma eats practically anything that floats within range of his hole, the clown eats everything apart from the expensive food he was supposed like, and the coral beauty eats flake, algae off the rocks and nori.

I got inventive with the nori and cut a small rock in two then epoxied a magnet into each half (magnet totally encased in epoxy) so they stick together with the nori held in between. Seems to work pretty well so far..

I think I've got all the livestock I'll have in this tank, in fact I may be a bit overstocked at this point, especially if things grow. I do however have a plan.. It comes in the form of a 75 g tank which I am replacing a broken panel on, so larger quarters are in the offing..

[SmallFry]

So I've not posted anything for a while, mostly because not a lot has happened - apart from my ballasts exploding. Really, they actually did explode..

Anyway after much messing around a new ballast from Canadian Tire has the fishes back in the daylight again. So there's time for my current project - the upgrade...

It's going to be the slowest upgrade ever as I'm buying bits as I go. I've fixed up the broken 75 gallon tank I got my hands on and now have finally finished building the stand.

I wanted to have all the sump, skimmer etc hidden out of sight so it had to be built as a cabinet as opposed to a stand. I wanted it to match the rest of our furniture so it's made of a mix of maple and birch faced plywood. Anyway here come the photos - angles are a little odd as it's in the smallest bedroom and I couldn't get far enough away from it for sensible photos.

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/tankstand2.jpg

In a fit of madness I actually made the door handles myself out of some scrap maple because I wanted them to match. Me? Obsessive? No!!! :lol:

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/tankstand3.jpg

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/tankstand4.jpg

And an out of focus one of the box beams that support the top.

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/tankstand5.jpg

There are a few things that I'd have done differently, perhaps not using hard white maple for the doors and the front of the cabinet. It's nice wood, but they're not kidding about the 'hard' bit - you could make car parts out of the stuff! :neutral:
I'd planned on using ready planed dimensional lumber, but it was really expensive so I bought larger rough lumber, then re-sawed and planed it myself. In fact the price difference was so big that it actually paid for a thickness planer... So I now have a new toy as well! :biggrin:

[kylejordan]

I went with this type of design when I did my stand its mostly 2x4 construction with Maple Coverings and Finishes. Then i Just stained it to my preference.

I hope these Pictures work.

[SmallFry]

It's been a while again, but there's been quite a bit going on outside the tank - bought a house and had to halt the tank upgrade for a while. Also it looks like it's going to go in the basement, which needs a ceiling!

I have managed to pick up a few bit here and there though. A 30 gallon tank second hand for a sump is the latest. I'm currently in the process of tearing out the old wrecked silicone before re-siliconing it.

I have the skimmer, just the lighting and a load of rock from BRS to go.

It's a bit frustrating, but there you go, but that brings me to the main subject of the post. My current piece of crap hang on skimmer. Seriously it's a waste of the earth's natural resources - no kidding. :neutral:
If anyone tries to sell you a Weipro skimmer, just say no...
Anyway, with the move to the big tank and the better skimmer on hold, I had to do something. I'm battling to keep the water quality up and getting no help from the skimmer. I left it running to boost gas exchange as I have a covered tank, but lately I reckon it can't be doing much for that either. No matter how much I clean it, play with it, cajole or curse it, it just seems to get worse. Something had to give, so I was left with a choice of buying another one (which would cost about half the price if the rock for the big tank) or rig something. I chose the second option. :mrgreen:

A trip to Windsor Plywood saw me with a board foot of 1" basswood (apparently the same as limewood) which I ripped into a 1/8" piece of end grain. Then I got out the C/A and made an airstone that would fit down in the body if the skimmer by the inlet. It's about 1" square by 3/8" (sorry, didn't have the presence of mind to take a photo). I drilled the lid of the skimmer and fed the airline down through the neck.

The results are spectacular. If I block the venturi, it's much quieter or a start, and there's bubbles - lots of bubbles.

From this:
http://www.mts.net/~sempers/Venturi_skimmer.jpg

The skimmate and the foam you see is left over from running it with the airstone earlier. Check out the lack of bubbles!

To this:
http://www.mts.net/~sempers/Skimmer_airstone.jpg

For the first time (pretty much ever) it's skimming! :biggrin:

And the best bit is for 6 bucks I've got enough wood for about a hundred or so airstones.. It may be my imagination, but the fish seem to be more active too, perhaps the oxygen levels have increased.. Or it could be in my head.

But still - IT SKIMMS!!!

[Greenmaster]

Right on I'll follow along... and add any advice that I think can help.

[Skimmerking]

Hey where about do you live at . Give Doug a PM he has a great hang on Skimmer for that tank... love to see your tank too. I'm on Dennis Street too.It's been a while again, but there's been quite a bit going on outside the tank - bought a house and had to halt the tank upgrade for a while. Also it looks like it's going to go in the basement, which needs a ceiling!

I have managed to pick up a few bit here and there though. A 30 gallon tank second hand for a sump is the latest. I'm currently in the process of tearing out the old wrecked silicone before re-siliconing it.

I have the skimmer, just the lighting and a load of rock from BRS to go.

It's a bit frustrating, but there you go, but that brings me to the main subject of the post. My current piece of crap hang on skimmer. Seriously it's a waste of the earth's natural resources - no kidding. :neutral:
If anyone tries to sell you a Weipro skimmer, just say no...
Anyway, with the move to the big tank and the better skimmer on hold, I had to do something. I'm battling to keep the water quality up and getting no help from the skimmer. I left it running to boost gas exchange as I have a covered tank, but lately I reckon it can't be doing much for that either. No matter how much I clean it, play with it, cajole or curse it, it just seems to get worse. Something had to give, so I was left with a choice of buying another one (which would cost about half the price if the rock for the big tank) or rig something. I chose the second option. :mrgreen:

A trip to Windsor Plywood saw me with a board foot of 1" basswood (apparently the same as limewood) which I ripped into a 1/8" piece of end grain. Then I got out the C/A and made an airstone that would fit down in the body if the skimmer by the inlet. It's about 1" square by 3/8" (sorry, didn't have the presence of mind to take a photo). I drilled the lid of the skimmer and fed the airline down through the neck.

The results are spectacular. If I block the venturi, it's much quieter or a start, and there's bubbles - lots of bubbles.

From this:
http://www.mts.net/%7Esempers/Venturi_skimmer.jpg

The skimmate and the foam you see is left over from running it with the airstone earlier. Check out the lack of bubbles!

To this:
http://www.mts.net/%7Esempers/Skimmer_airstone.jpg

For the first time (pretty much ever) it's skimming! :biggrin:

And the best bit is for 6 bucks I've got enough wood for about a hundred or so airstones.. It may be my imagination, but the fish seem to be more active too, perhaps the oxygen levels have increased.. Or it could be in my head.

But still - IT SKIMMS!!!

[Skimmerking]

well get that 75 gal on this thread as a roll over come on ROB:mrgreen:

you should take my 150 gal off my hands too

[SmallFry]

well get that 75 gal on this thread as a roll over come on ROB:mrgreen:

If that darned rock would cure I would be making some progress. I'm going to start the overflow and drilling the tank as soon as I've done finishing the garage - taped the drywall today, so just the sanding to go..

you should take my 150 gal off my hands too
Ya, the thing is - I haven't managed to get the 75 off the ground yet... :neutral:

[Skimmerking]

if ya need a help with the drilling Rob let me know ok. i have a dremel
and where my TV is now. That is where the tank will be going. Tammy says she wants a fake wall there to hide the tank ..:neutral:

[SmallFry]

if ya need a help with the drilling Rob let me know ok. i have a dremel
and where my TV is now. That is where the tank will be going. Tammy says she wants a fake wall there to hide the tank ..:neutral:

May well do.. Likewise if you want a hand framing the wall...

[Doug]

Uh guys. I have a bit remember. :D

[Skimmerking]

ya the wall thing i may ask you for some since you are a framing guy to get some advice...

[SmallFry]

Uh guys. I have a bit remember. :D

Ooh.. Out of curiosity what size is it? Would be really handy if I could borrow it when the time comes to drill holes in my overflow. I've been talked (by Mike) into cutting a slot in the back and having an external overflow. Still on the fence as to whether I drill the returns through the back or go over the top..

Rob.

[Skimmerking]

its up to u rob

[SmallFry]

its up to u rob

Oh no, don't get me wrong - I think it's definitely the way to go, I'd much rather not have an overflow protruding into the tank. After all, all that rock I made is going to take up a fair bit of space as it is if it ever cures... :biggrin:

I was initially a bit nervous of the idea of cutting a slot (never drilled glass before, let alone cut a slot), but as you say, all the pressure is at the bottom of the tank, and the overflow will brace it anyway. I'm thinking I'll make the slot pretty long (almost coast to coast) and narrow so I don't need a grating across it. Will look really clean I reckon.

I just needed a nudge in the right direction.. :mrgreen:

[Doug]

Its around a 2in. hole. Not sure of the exact size but could look it up. Anyways it takes a bulkhead for a 1.5 in. stack and drains, which is the only size I would do unless going duel overflows or the ever popular "herbie". I have never done one but with the popularity on here, thats the route I would choose now.

Lots of plans on here for the herbie, including with externals. I think my bit may be to large for them however.

My tank has a 1.5 in. Duraso, which I drilled my self but uses the standard corner overflow.

[SmallFry]

Its around a 2in. hole. Not sure of the exact size but could look it up. Anyways it takes a bulkhead for a 1.5 in. stack and drains, which is the only size I would do unless going duel overflows or the ever popular "herbie". I have never done one but with the popularity on here, thats the route I would choose now.

Lots of plans on here for the herbie, including with externals. I think my bit may be to large for them however.

My tank has a 1.5 in. Duraso, which I drilled my self but uses the standard corner overflow.

Thanks, I think that may be a bit big - I was planning on the herbie, as you say it seems like a sensible way to go. I was going to use 1" bulkheads into 1.25" drains, because I don't think I'll have enough running through the sump to keep a 1.5" drain in full syphon mode. I know I can adjust the flow down with the valve, but I want the water to be going through the pipe fast enough to purge any bubbles that might get in there before they can break the syphon.

I was also going to go for the version with the third emergency emergency drain - basically because I'm paranoid. :biggrin:

[SmallFry]

So the build is in motion again. At last!

Progress has been painfully slow for a good while, the cure/kure/crap leaching out/whatever you decide to call it, for my diy rock seems to just be going on and on, but that's another story..

I've finally gotten around to cutting up the back of the tank and building an external overflow box. It's 1//4" glass as it's not going to be holding much water anyway. The rest of the glass in the tank is about 3/8" I think.

Anyway, the cutting of the tank went OK for a first attempt I guess. I was determined the the water level will be above the bottom of the top trim so it's not visible (if that made any sense), so I cut the trim back. To do this I marked everything out carefully and then used a large (wood) hole saw to drill a hole in a piece of plywood, which I used as a guide to start the hole bit in the plastic trim. I then positioned this so the saw cut a nice semi circle at each end of the bit I wanted to take out of the trim. I used the mandrel for the hole saw back to front to avoid having the pilot drill bit sticking out. Then it's just a matter of drilling carefully until you get to the glass.. From there I used a cutting wheel (for wood again) to join the tops of the semicircles. It would have been fine to just cut out the trim square, but I'm just like that..:biggrin:

I then used a 3/8" diamond drill bit to cut four holes (one at each end of both slots) and then a 2" diamond cutting wheel to join them up.

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/75_overflow2.jpg

I noticed something that may be of interest to others in this process. I intended to use a dremel clone to do the majority of the cutting (not the drilling) because I thought it'd be the best way to do it. I was wrong. The cutting wheel on the 'dremel' was not really a success. Since it was one you screw the blade onto the shaft, there is always some whirl to it. At low speeds the 'dremel' has no torque and stalls if you apply any amount of pressure, at high speed settings it whirls and chatters like mad until you press down then the 'dremel' itself overheats. Maybe this isn't an issue if you have a real dremel not a piece of crap imitation like mine, I don't know, but it was pretty much only good for cutting the first very shallow track in the surface of the glass as a guide. I then found it far more effective to put the wheel in the drill and use that. With the extra torque of the drill, you can press harder (back off the pressure before you break through of course) and actually cut the glass faster than your beard grows.
Also, if you cut in such a direction that the wheel is coming upwards at the forward edge as you cut along it also helps reduce any splintering of glass. I found it best to do the cut in a number of passes.


After that I set to work on the overflow, which is when crap started really going wrong! :biggrin:
I already had some glass from when I was replacing the back of the tank as I bought a panel of the wrong thickness the first time around. No problem, I'll use it for the overflow. Now let's just say there are some things in my opinion best left to those who know how - flying jumbo jets etc. Let's just say that cutting 1/4" glass has now been added to that list.... If anyone has a use for a large number of irregularly shaped bits of 1/4" glass, let me know. :redface:

So if you don't succeed, try again, and if you still don't, give up because there's no point making a fool of yourself.. I went to the glass shop with a list of measurements...

A few days later I drilled three 1 3/4" holes in the bottom panel of the overflow and stuck it all together.

http://www.mts.net/~sempers/75_overflow1.jpg

One point to note is that when I put the new pane in the tank, I stuck stuff in place with masking tape. This time I used Tuck Tape because it sticks like you know what to a blanket. Unfortunately I hadn't thought about the fact that being plastic, it stops (pretty much)the silicone underneath it from setting so you have to take it off then wait another day. Finally it leaves behind bits of red adhesive when you take it off. This does come off with gas, but you then stink out the laundry room and have to run the ventilator full throttle for a couple of hours to get the smell out of the entire house BEFORE the wife comes home...

I've also resealed the tank for the sump. I ended up doing it twice because I ran out of silicone the first time. By the time I got some more the first lot had half gone off which meant it lifted with the masking tape so I had to scrape it off and do it again. Lesson, always have more silicone in hand than you think you'll need. No Photos of that yet because it's not got any baffles or anything yet so it's a bit boring..

Rob.

[SmallFry]

I'm just so mad right now - last night I was well beyond that. I'd just finished getting the tank ready for water, painted the back, put in the bulkheads, all the plumbing. Looking pretty tidy if I say so myself. :mrgreen: Secured the drains to the stand to stop them shaking around with the water flow, stood back to admire my handiwork.

I got to do so for about 30 seconds before "CRACK" the bottom of the overflow cracked from the one bulkhead to the back of the tank.

Not happy at all...

So I had to detach the plumbing, and then take the bottom off the overflow - which wasn't easy so the back of it is a little chipped, not that that'll be a real problem; it's not taking much weight anyway, just about 3" in the overflow. Now I have to get more glass cut three more holes re-silicone together repaint and then try again.

I think the problem is that the pipe was slightly out of line with the bulkhead so it twisted it sideways and that was goodnight - I'm thinking when I put it back together I'll use some of those rubber joiners you get for plumbing that are just a tube with a hose clip at each end in the lines, hopefully they will allow for some movement and avoid anything like this happening again..

I realise this is more of a rant than a progress update, but I had to vent...:neutral:

[Skimmerking]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Rob may be buy a little thicker glass for the over flow on the bottom. and the weight of the water pushing on it Rob too

[SmallFry]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Rob may be buy a little thicker glass for the over flow on the bottom. and the weight of the water pushing on it Rob too

I take it you mean deflection of the tank wall that it's stick to due to the weight of the water in the tank? I see your point - when I get water in it! Clearly though this wasn't the issue this time - I didn't even get the chance to get it damp never mind wet! :biggrin: It also would've gone the other side of the bulkhead if that had been the case I guess, but that point is moot...

Glass thickness wise I didn't think 1/4" was too thin for an overflow - it also seemed to be the thickest I can get in Brandon without them having to order it in - unless you know someone who carries something thicker in stock? Not averse to using thicker if I can get my hands on some fairly quickly and at a sensible cost.. The plan is to use it as a curing vat for that concrete of mine - more volume than what it's in at the moment..

[Skimmerking]

did you try Diamond edge

[SmallFry]

did you try Diamond edge

Yup, unfortunately they didn't have any 10mm glass on hand, so I went with two layers of 1/4" (6mm) which are clamped together with lots of silicone spread in a thin layer (my visa will never be the same :mrgreen:) between them as I write this. I'm interested to find out if it'll cure all the way through in a sensible length of time since there's very little path for moisture to get in and cure it in the middle because it's sandwiched between two layers of glass. The guy at the shop reckoned about 24 hours should do it - I guess we'll find out when I drill the holes...!

At least I'm making progress again - albeit stuff I've already done once :biggrin:

[SmallFry]

I've got water in the 75! :biggrin:

Ok, so it's only fresh water - I'm still trying to cure my diy rocks, but I think this is the point where it should have a journal of it's own...

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71572

[Skimmerking]

I have some rock if you wanna buy it

[SmallFry]

So this is the end of this tank, it's final duties as a quarantine tank are over and all occupants (apart from a number of bristle worms) have been moved on to the new 75 gallon.

In the longer term when I have some or a lot of other projects out of the way, I'm going to drill it and add a sump. I'm probably going to build it a new stand more along the lines of the one for the 75. The plan is to build another light so that I can keep an anaenome and a pair of clowns in there as a display on the main floor since the big one is in the basement. I have an idea for a really cool light that involves the Wife's old wok, but she doesn't know this yet.. :biggrin: