I'm back with questions...

[Dolf]

A short intro-
I used to keep a 75 gal with a refugium, DSB, no skimmer and a fairly light bio load. It was successful until a power outage during a McMurray winter while I was at work killed everything. That must have been 04 or 05. Now I am thinking that I should get back into the hobby (I am a little more stable- location wise, at least.)

I may have found a 180 gal to pick up. Aside from the added cost to aquascape it and the added maintenance are there any drawbacks to the larger tanks? Are they really that much more work? I seem to recall the 75 not really being that bad to keep up with...

Finally, on a 24 inch deep tank that is 6 feet long what am I going to need to keep clams and soft corals? I realize that MH will likely be a minimum- but how many at what wattage? Will 2 work or will I need more...

One last question- will a lionfish or an angler eat cleaner shrimp or soft corals? I really did used to know the answers to some of these questions... or at least where to find them...

[Doug]

A short intro-
I used to keep a 75 gal with a refugium, DSB, no skimmer and a fairly light bio load. It was successful until a power outage during a McMurray winter while I was at work killed everything. That must have been 04 or 05. Now I am thinking that I should get back into the hobby (I am a little more stable- location wise, at least.)

I may have found a 180 gal to pick up. Aside from the added cost to aquascape it and the added maintenance are there any drawbacks to the larger tanks? Are they really that much more work? I seem to recall the 75 not really being that bad to keep up with...

Finally, on a 24 inch deep tank that is 6 feet long what am I going to need to keep clams and soft corals? I realize that MH will likely be a minimum- but how many at what wattage? Will 2 work or will I need more...

One last question- will a lionfish or an angler eat cleaner shrimp or soft corals? I really did used to know the answers to some of these questions... or at least where to find them...

I would say not much more work from a 75 or 90g to a 180g. Guess the larger water changes and more dosing to maintain alk. & calcium, depending on whats in the reef tank. Always figure in the more humidity factor of a larger tank and how to remove it from the house.
....direct venting the hood, HRV, dehumidifier or whatever method you choose, something is needed to remove the moisture in a Calgary winter.

A lionfish would be fine in a reef, except for trying to keep small fish, shrimps, etc. They will not bother corals. Plus, myself being clumsy and always working in my coral tank, I would be worried about getting poked by a lionfish. Esp. if one has bad reactions to things like bee stings.

[e46er]

[QUOTE=Dolf;388352] I realize that MH will likely be a minimum- but how many at what wattage? Will 2 work or will I need more...

QUOTE]


Far as i am aware of a MH light will cover 24"by 24" so for a 6 foot tank you will need 3

[new but handy]

Hey
I am running 3 250 mh and and 450w of pc's on mine

[Myka]

Ya you will need 3 MH lamps to produce an even lighting appearance. If you only plan to keep softies and corals, you could get away with a single MH, and supplement with T5s, just put the clams under the MH. if you do it that way though, your lighting will not be even. It will be really bright under the MH, and then much dimmer under just the T5s. You will need your MH lamps to be at least 250w for the clams. Buying 3 MH lamps just for softies and a few clams seems like quite a waste to me, as the softies do not need that strong lighting.

The biggest difference between a 70g and a 180g will be setup costs, and they will be considerably higher. There will be a lot more live rock (think about 150 lbs minimum at $4-8/lb), lots of sand, a much bigger skimmer, more lighting, etc. A 180g is quite a considerable project to tackle.

As far as the sand goes, DSB is kind of old school now. there are still people that do it, but there are more disadvantages than there are advantages imo.

[Dolf]

Thanks for the replies. I may just go for a 90... really, I want more coral than fish and to fill a 180 with coral may deplete all savings and future earnings. The only thing is that I like the "24 X 24" dimensions rather than "24 X 18" I guess I will see when the right tank comes along...

A DSB, refugium and macro's with no skimmer never was a "popular" set up and most people thought it a horrid idea. However, I kept a few species of coarl that were considered very hard to keep- no SPS. Clams and scallops were also happy and I think that for the first while I will likely run that way- stick with what you know. On that note, does anybody know what happened to Doctor Ron Schmeck? I assume that he has not been convinced into skimmers yet?

[Myka]

You could get a 120g which is 48x24x24" or how about a 60g cube which is 24x24x24"?

Refugiums w/ macros are popular. DSBs eventually fail given a few years most of the time. They are a great way to cause a tank crash down the road. What do you hope to achieve by using a DSB that you can't achieve by using a SSB? I can understand skimmerless (as I run skimmerless myself), however I only recommend that to experienced reef keepers as it provides a plethora of challenges of which most are easily diminished simply by using a quality skimmer.

[Dolf]

I guess I was wanting to keep one or the larger mantis shrimp and considered that a good excuse...

I used to keep a fairly light bioload and had just s small layer of CC on the bottom of the main tank. The refuge flowed through bioballs and then into an area with 4 inches or better of live sand. From there it was into the compartment that contained a large return pump. Everything was actually stable and easy to maintain. I used to buy the argument that skimming took out certain “things” that were good for an aquarium to keep... I remember quite a few people back then saying that it was a horrible way to keep an aquarium- but the results were great for me. I did not keep hard coral and I did not keep anything that was temperamental in that manner. I did keep a couple of corals that, at the time, needed a diet that consisted of the unknown. (They had no symbiotic algae for photosynthesis to help with the diet???) Things may have changed in that regard and I may find after a few months of reading here and the other board that I have a change of heart and breakdown and buy a skimmer. I also may find that I want to keep a different type of coral or a larger bioload (I am considering a Lionfish...) and may need to do something different.

As to the DSB... I would never put it in the display tank... but I think it was a great place for bristle worms and the likes. I would love to find what happened with Dr. Ron and his research... to me he always seemed to be somebody who did the research on keeping a tank in a way that I liked to keep it. Some of his studies and wittings made it easier to believe in how I was keeping the tank when you would have people say that a skimmer was a necessity and a “no brainer.” I realize that you are not one of them and being as you run skimmerless please point me to any new research or ideas that I may have missed in the last couple of years if anything has changed... I may skip the DSB- but that means no large mantis shrimp :( . I realize that a large mantis would likely defeat the purpose of a DSB anyhow- too much “sand shifting...”