Simple method of dosing alk?

[ponokareefer]

I was looking for the simplest method for dosing alk. Presently, it is the only item that is being depleted in my system that water changes are not replacing. I have to manually add alk to my system daily, so was looking for a simpler way of doing this, in case I go on vacation, and don't have to count on someone else doing it for me. I recently baked some baking soda to use instead of a Seachem product, as the price was a lot less. I have looked at the GHL profilux dosing pump, with 1 pump, but believe that I would need to buy more items in conjunction with this system. I want to avoid a calcium reactor as I don't have the room to store it.
My system is 125 gallons, with a 55 gallon sump. I have a mainly softie system, but have a hammer coral, a small birdsnest frag, and 3 clams(1 being 15 inches long).

[Aquattro]

There is no easy way, it's either kalk reactor, Ca reactor, dosing pump system or dumping baking soda. Lowest tech method would probably be using kalk in your top off water, depending on how this is done on your system.

[ponokareefer]

There is no easy way, it's either kalk reactor, Ca reactor, dosing pump system or dumping baking soda. Lowest tech method would probably be using kalk in your top off water, depending on how this is done on your system.

I manually add top off into my system, so that wouldn't simplify the process. Both reactors are too large for the area I have left under my system. Any idea what you need to buy or need with a dosing pump system?

[mseepman]

One of the cheapest methods might be to buy a TOM aqualifter from J&L and then use it to dose from a DIY Kalk container. I haven't started yet but that's what I'm planning on doing for my nano. Just make sure you buy the TOM prefilter too so that the Kalk doesn't mess up your aqualifter too quickly.

[ponokareefer]

How would you make a DIY Kalk container?

[Aquattro]

BTW, what are your nitrates at?

[Aquattro]

How would you make a DIY Kalk container?

Buy jug of milk, drink milk, wash container, use for kalk :)

[ponokareefer]

My nitrates are at 0. You don't need to stir the contents of a milk jug after mixing them together? The contents would be baking soda, not kalk.

[untamed]

Holmes-Farley would say that if you are able to measure decline in Alk...then you need to be added more of BOTH Ca and Alk...not just Alk. It is beyond me to explain why it works that way.

[fkshiu]

Holmes-Farley would say that if you are able to measure decline in Alk...then you need to be added more of BOTH Ca and Alk...not just Alk. It is beyond me to explain why it works that way.

Bingo! Ca/Alk/Mg are all interlinked. You can't change one without affecting the other two.

[ponokareefer]

Bingo! Ca/Alk/Mg are all interlinked. You can't change one without affecting the other two.

I totally get that. For part of 2008, I was getting my magnesium level up, and until it was up, I couldn't get my alk & calcium high enough. After my magnesium level was at 1400, my calcium and alk levels were good. After I bought my largest clam, my magnesium levels stayed the same, calcium levels went in the high 400's, and alk dropped below acceptable levels. By adding alk, my alk comes back into an acceptable level, my calcium dropps into the low 400's, and my magnesium stays the same. Should I be adding calcium as well, even though what I am doing is keeping all levels in the acceptable levels?

[Aquattro]

The contents would be baking soda, not kalk.

Personally, I'd use kalk. It keeps Ca and alk at proper levels, baking soda should be used more of a fix, IMO. I only use it if I notice a sharp drop in my alk. Otherwise, kalk. You wouldn't need it full strength either, and likely wouldn't need to mix it once stirred.

[untamed]

I think the standard advice would be to add Alk supplement only until you achieved "balanced Ca/Alk"...What you consider to be balanced is maybe a bit subjective... Let's say it is around 400-440 Ca...and about 8-9DKH.

Once you have that, you should maintain it with a balanced additive (like A/B, Kalk, Ca Reactor). Then use this balanced additive to maintain these levels. A dropping Alk level serves largely as an indicator that you are not replacing BOTH...even though the Ca level appears to be holding.

To quote Holmes-Farley..."The "mechanism" arises in the simple fact that alkalinity rises and falls much faster than does calcium because seawater has a much bigger reservoir of calcium than it does alkalinity."

A good recommended read:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php

[midgetwaiter]

I totally get that. For part of 2008, I was getting my magnesium level up, and until it was up, I couldn't get my alk & calcium high enough. After my magnesium level was at 1400, my calcium and alk levels were good. After I bought my largest clam, my magnesium levels stayed the same, calcium levels went in the high 400's, and alk dropped below acceptable levels. By adding alk, my alk comes back into an acceptable level, my calcium dropps into the low 400's, and my magnesium stays the same. Should I be adding calcium as well, even though what I am doing is keeping all levels in the acceptable levels?

You use tap water rather than RO right? I imagine Ponoka has fairly hard water like the rest of the province so every time you do a top up with your tap water you are adding a fair amount of calcium but not very much alkalinity. If you use something like Kalkwasser in your top up it won't fix the problem as you are adding more or less balanced amounts of calcium and alkalinity to water that already has a lot of calcium. Boosting only alk in the top up by adding something like sodium carbonate (your baked baking soda) makes you top up into a balanced calcium / alk additive as well.

The easy way to go forward is to get yourself an auto top off of some kind and supplement the ATO water with Alk.

[ponokareefer]

You use tap water rather than RO right? I imagine Ponoka has fairly hard water like the rest of the province so every time you do a top up with your tap water you are adding a fair amount of calcium but not very much alkalinity. If you use something like Kalkwasser in your top up it won't fix the problem as you are adding more or less balanced amounts of calcium and alkalinity to water that already has a lot of calcium. Boosting only alk in the top up by adding something like sodium carbonate (your baked baking soda) makes you top up into a balanced calcium / alk additive as well.

The easy way to go forward is to get yourself an auto top off of some kind and supplement the ATO water with Alk.

Any recommendations on a good ATO? I see Tunze carries one, but it appears to come with a tank to hold water, and I'm going to have to make a custom one, as I don't have a lot of space to put it.

[Myka]

If you want to automate your tank more, I would also suggest you get an ATO and add your Alk to the reservoir. You will need to have a reservoir for the ATO. The size depends on what you want, but I would suggest something at least 15% of your total system's volume or you will end up having to fill the reservoir too often.

I can't imagine what you have under your tank that is taking up all the space when you only have a 55g sump and no reactors?? Is it poor space management? Maybe you can try to do a renovation under there, and get some more space opened up?

Is it true that you are using tap water? If so, that may be your answer as to why you're needing to add alk, but not calcium as midgetwaiter suggested. If you are in fact using RO/DI water then you need to look into the alk usage futher.

[ponokareefer]

If you want to automate your tank more, I would also suggest you get an ATO and add your Alk to the reservoir. You will need to have a reservoir for the ATO. The size depends on what you want, but I would suggest something at least 15% of your total system's volume or you will end up having to fill the reservoir too often.

I can't imagine what you have under your tank that is taking up all the space when you only have a 55g sump and no reactors?? Is it poor space management? Maybe you can try to do a renovation under there, and get some more space opened up?

Is it true that you are using tap water? If so, that may be your answer as to why you're needing to add alk, but not calcium as midgetwaiter suggested. If you are in fact using RO/DI water then you need to look into the alk usage futher.

I use RO water, not tap water, so I don't think that is the problem. When I was using tap water over 2 years ago, I was having issues with phosphates, so switched.
A main issue with space is I have to set up a fan underneath in the summer to keep the temperature down, so that chews up a lot of the space. I suppose I could put the fan on top of the reservoir, rather than a stand, opening that up, and also screwing in my MH ballast's to the wall.

[Myka]

I use RO water, not tap water, so I don't think that is the problem. When I was using tap water over 2 years ago, I was having issues with phosphates, so switched.
A main issue with space is I have to set up a fan underneath in the summer to keep the temperature down, so that chews up a lot of the space. I suppose I could put the fan on top of the reservoir, rather than a stand, opening that up, and also screwing in my MH ballast's to the wall.

Ok, so you're using RO water. Do you test the TDS of your product water regularly? If so, what is it at? If not, it is $28 well spent. An RO unit is really not complete without a TDS meter. What salt are you using? What products are you using for magnesium and calcium? What are your magnesium and calcium sitting at? Take a quick glace through Myka's Guide to Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium... in my signature, maybe you can pick up a missing link or something. It's an easy read, don't worry! ;)

Another option for fans is to cut out a hole in each end of your stand and install fans one in each direction that mount right into the holes. This way you get really good airflow through the stand, not just in the stand, plus they don't take up any room at all. PFO ($40 each I think) and IceCap ($90 I think, but variable speed) make good ones. I'm sure you could find them in a hardware store too for much less, just look for ones with as little metal on them as possible to lessen rusting.

[hillegom]

If I read correctly, that you have the ballasts under the tank, maybe if you moved them out, the temperature would not go up so high in the summer

[ponokareefer]

Ok, so you're using RO water. Do you test the TDS of your product water regularly? If so, what is it at? If not, it is $28 well spent. An RO unit is really not complete without a TDS meter. What salt are you using? What products are you using for magnesium and calcium? What are your magnesium and calcium sitting at? Take a quick glace through Myka's Guide to Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium... in my signature, maybe you can pick up a missing link or something. It's an easy read, don't worry! ;)

Another option for fans is to cut out a hole in each end of your stand and install fans one in each direction that mount right into the holes. This way you get really good airflow through the stand, not just in the stand, plus they don't take up any room at all. PFO ($40 each I think) and IceCap ($90 I think, but variable speed) make good ones. I'm sure you could find them in a hardware store too for much less, just look for ones with as little metal on them as possible to lessen rusting.

Presently, I am not testing my RO water regularly. I use Bio Sea Marinemix salt. My magnesium is at 1410, and my calcium is at 440. I am not real keen on cutting holes in my stand, but it may be an option that I have to consider. I'm curious is cutting holes in the canopy wouldn't be the better solution though, as this is where the heat is generated.

[High tide]

First of all, for anyone to help you properly we need to know the ph and alk levels of your tank. Adding a bunch of baking soda and nothing else is not going to solve your problem, it will just throw things more out of wack. Are your corals and clams growing? Is your RO unit working? If you live in a place with high mineral content it is possible that your RO membrane is clogged. Test the RO unit for calcium. If the RO is working fine and you want to keep it simple, which it sounds like you do, (no reactor,doser, or stirrer)here is what I would do. First of all I would switch salt, Instant Ocean is tried and tested with buffering capacity. Secondly, I would do a large water change(at least 50%) after a couple smaller ones(25%)to get your animals used to the change in salt/chemistry.Thirdly, take a five gallon pail, mix kalk accordingly, and drip kalk to match evaporation. Your aquarium probably has little demand for calcium so this should suffice.

[midgetwaiter]

This is awful.

First of all, for anyone to help you properly we need to know the ph and alk levels of your tank. Adding a bunch of baking soda and nothing else is not going to solve your problem, it will just throw things more out of wack.


The baking soda he is adding will raise alkalinity. He has problems with low alkalinity. WTF is the disconnect there?


Are your corals and clams growing? Is your RO unit working? If you live in a place with high mineral content it is possible that your RO membrane is clogged. Test the RO unit for calcium.


Probably a good idea.


First of all I would switch salt, Instant Ocean is tried and tested with buffering capacity.


Yeah it's got higher alk than other salts but the calcium sucks when mixed with RO water. Regardless of your personal salt preference the fact is BioSea is an excellent salt mix, it is not the root of this problem.


Secondly, I would do a large water change(at least 50%) after a couple smaller ones(25%)to get your animals used to the change in salt/chemistry.Thirdly, take a five gallon pail, mix kalk accordingly, and drip kalk to match evaporation. Your aquarium probably has little demand for calcium so this should suffice.

So your solution to somebody with normal calcium but depressed alkalinity is to add calcium and alkalinity to the tank in equal parts. Respectfully, WTF?

It's indeed a little unusual to see alkalinity demand much higher than calcium but it's not unheard of. Phosphate resins and liquids can eat it up, other things can contribute. It's an easy fix.

The ozmolator is nice, doesn't come with a tank though, you can just use a bucket. I also like the Tsunami AT-1 + Aqualifter combo, it's served me well for years and the Aqualifter stands up fairly well to moving sodium carbonate solutions or kalk.

[High tide]

Thank you midgetwaiter for your respectful WTF. Obviously you have no clue what the desired effect is....returning ionic balance! If you have to throw baking soda at your aquarium and calcium levels never drop most definitely there is an ionic imbalance. Besides that, we don't even know the Kh or the Ph of the system. You can adversely affect both with excessive baking soda use. Baking soda will not buffer.Treating the cause is always a better way to go than treating the symptom. It's more important that the alk/ca ratio are proportionate than have "normal calcium" levels. If the alk is low and the Ca is "normal" things are not "normal".

[ponokareefer]

My PH is at 8.2, and my alk varies, depending on if I've just dosed or not. It has gotten as low as 2.2 when I didn't realize it was being used up so quickly, but I am able to maintain it between 2.5 and 2.7 with proper dosing. I can't remember how that corresponds to on the Kh scale.

[ponokareefer]

I found my conversion scale. My alk was at 6.2, but I try to maintain it at 7.5. All corals and clams are growing quite nicely.

[ponokareefer]

So I added Kalk, not alk, through the morning, and my alk shot up to 8.3, and my calcium maintained at 450. I had no idea adding kalk would increase the alk so much, and leave the calcium pretty much the same. Thanks for the helpfull tip.
After sorting through everyone's advise, and my goal being to try to simplify the process of keeping the levels in my tank constant, I'm going to look for a ATO, and have a smaller holding tank(10gallons). Although I'll have to add water regularly(I get about 1.5 gallons of evaporation in the winter, and close to 2.5 gallons of evaporation in the summer), this will still be easier than doing it daily. This will give me the opportunity to add kalk to the system, and keep my salinity at more of a constant.
Thanks for everyone's advise and help

[untamed]

RE: adding Kalk

You've just seen a good example of what I was referring to earlier. By adding Kalk, you've added both Alk and Ca...yet only seen a lift in the Alk.

As Kalk has a very high pH, that explains why the tank pH moved up....but that effect would only be temporary. I don't know how you are measuring your tank pH, but if you measured it every hour you would find that it moves considerably through the day/night cycle. That is normal.

In fact, the main concern with pH is mostly about not moving it around too fast. What it actually IS at any given point in time isn't too important. (to a point..of course)

[mseepman]

It's interesting to see where your CAL is at. Biosea is an excellent salt (my favorite behind their Marine Environment version) but I recently decided to try Reefer's best and my CAL has just dropped through the bottom while my ALK has stayed fairly high.

I believe salt does make a big difference on your dosing regime so make sure you watch both numbers carefully so one doesn't get out of wack more quickly than you realize.

If you go to Walmart, they sell TDS meters for $15 in the Auto/RV section so that you can regularly check your RO water.

[ponokareefer]

It's interesting to see where your CAL is at. Biosea is an excellent salt (my favorite behind their Marine Environment version) but I recently decided to try Reefer's best and my CAL has just dropped through the bottom while my ALK has stayed fairly high.

I believe salt does make a big difference on your dosing regime so make sure you watch both numbers carefully so one doesn't get out of wack more quickly than you realize.

If you go to Walmart, they sell TDS meters for $15 in the Auto/RV section so that you can regularly check your RO water.

Our RO unit has been producing less water lately, so we are going to change out the filters and membranes now as well, so if there is any issues, they should be cleared up quickly. This did not coincide with my alk readings dropping though. The alk readings dropped well before the RO unit started slowing down. I am positive it was my new clam that is causing all the issues.
I'll have to look for a TDS meter next time I'm at a Walmart.