Some Carbon use/light intensity observations for ya.

[Canadian Man]

Well here's the story.
I change my carbon on a monthly basis. When the month is almost up I do notice a green/yellow tinge to the water. For the past 4 month's I have been keeping track of my findings which are as follows.

-When my carbon is changed my Green star polyps, plate coral and Open Brain(which I have not had the full 4 month's) act difrently for the next few days after changing the carbon. The GSP's open in the morning (when the light's come on) and stay open for about 4 to 5 hours, they then close up for the rest of the "light's on period". when the light's go out they open back up again. The Plate coral react's in a similar maner with it's horizontal polyps closing later in the day. The brain coral takes on a more shrunken appearance but it's been lightening up over the past few month's anyway and expelling it's zooanthella every so often.

- Now I hope I understand the obvious explanation for what's happening. Basically the carbon cleans out the yellow's in the water allowing more light to penetrate the aquarium? Make Sense?

To all you people that don't use carbon, would knowing that if you used it on a regular basis you would get "MORE" out of your light's make you want to use it?

To all the people that do use carbon, do you notice similar finding's in your tank? How do you run the carbon?

The carbon used was/is Seachem carbon in a bag and it's in a spot in my sump that forces water through the carbon but not all the water is forced to pass through the carbon.

Let's here some thoughs. :mrgreen:

[Aquattro]

Jon, I use carbon about 1 week per month. If I miss a month, I still do not get any yellowing of the water. I have gone 4 months before and did not see any coloring at all. I check this in a white bucket during water changes, where yellowing is often most apparent.
To note, I do not have any soft corals, and I believe they contribute more to this that SPS.
To answer your question though, I would use carbon to get full strength light in my tank.

[rossb]

Jon how much carbon do you go through in a month? Do you use carbon in addition to regular water changes? I'm thinking I might give this a try.

[Delphinus]

I always want to try to get back into using carbon, because it does seem to polish up that water column.

The problem for me is how to do it. It seems to me you want to force water through the filter bag. But if I put it at the top of a baffle, I find that unless I force ALL the water through it, the water merely just "goes around it." Ok, so I take little pieces of rock or whatever, acrylic, etc. to plug up all the holes, but then the problem is, I find the filter bag clogs wayyyy too quickly. Like, I have to take it out and scrub it clean every 1-2 days. That's way too maintenance intensive for my liking, I find even having to do something once a week to be a little tedious. The less I have to dink around with something, the better.

So I have tried serveral different things, I tried running carbon in an aquaclear, etc. I haven't yet stumbled onto a mechanism that seems to work for me problem-free (without having to intervene every 1-3 days).

So I guess MY question is, how are other people running carbon? How do you know you're getting enough water flow through the filter bag and not merely just around the filter bag? And so on.

Canadian_Man, in answer to your question, yes I would like to run carbon if I knew I was getting more light through the water column. The reasoning for me I think is pretty simple: the amount of investment we put into our lights (for purchase price and then for electricity every month), I want as much of what I'm buying to be available for the "consumers". It doesn't make sense to pay $10-$20 per month per bulb only to have some proportion of that reflected or absorbed away by other things. This is one reason I would never run a cover glass -- those things reflect away a lot of light. This is also a reason to consider spending more on good reflectors. And so on...

Plus, it really looks cool to see the water after it's been clarified. If the actual amount is hard to quantify, there is still just that subjective "gee this water looks really clean" factor. :smile:

[Acro]

Jonathan, Why not use the same amount of carbon but split it in half and change it out every two weeks instead? One of the best qualities of carbon is water clarity. For what it's worth I change out a small amount weekly.

[Delphinus]

Hey Jamie, how do you run your carbon? A filter bag in a baffle, or ... ?

And how often do you replace your filter bags? Never? Every month?

I'm just curious ... I found the clogging issues to be a major pain. I'd love to hear how people step around that issue. I found when I had a filter bag in a baffle, when it would start to clog, I'd start to get water level fluctuations in my sump (basically the last chamber would start to drain), so the water level would climb in the main display, and the salinity would start to drop a little because the float valve was now adding more water than was needed.

I lived with this at first, but then came to the conclusion that "there has to be a better way" and I kind of backburnered the carbon for now. But I would really like to get back into it.

[Doug]

Thats interesting Jon. I also have another possible theory, but would require you to run some more tests.

I would like to see the results, if everything remained the same and you switched to Marineland Black Diamond carbon.

[Acro]

Hello Tony,
I run carbon 24/7 changed out weekly. I'm only running about 2 small personal yogurt cups per week in a filter bag in a high flow area. I don't change the filter bags often. Though I just did as I was adding kalk in this same high flow area and it precipated on the bag but normally I don't change the bag just wash it with the weekly renewal.

[Canadian Man]

Jon how much carbon do you go through in a month? Do you use carbon in addition to regular water changes? I'm thinking I might give this a try.

Hey Ross, I run about 1/3 of a litre so about 300ml of carbon. I purchase the 1L seachem bottles and that last's me 3 months. My waterchanges are very random in my tank.... I used to do them monthly then went to bi weekly and now it's been kind of a when ever I want to do it thing. I used to see a diffrence in the corals when I did a waterchange but I no longer see this perk up affect. :confused:

Brad, do you run a fuge? I have 1/3 of my 75g sump sectioned off as a refugium. I don't have very many softies in the tank at all, but the fuge is full of algae.

Tony, I find the actuall affects on the new carbon to be extremely noticeable. My water is not pea soup but I do notice the diffrence between before new carbon and after. So do some of the corals :lol:
With my carbon Tony I just change it montly and then I don't clean it or the bag at all. When I go to change the carbon the bag is not blocked with crap what so ever.

Jamie, The splitting it evey 2 weeks sounds good but that would require more effort :lol: . The one aspect of that I don't like is your always going to be keeping some portion of the old carbon in the bag. Correct?

Doug, I will pick up some Marineland carbon next time I switch it and see what happens... I just swithce the carbon a few days ago so It will be a few weeks till I switch it again.
What's your idea about the diffrence with marineland?

Thanks very much all!

[Acro]

Jonathan, Sorry if that was misleading. What I meant was completely replace the carbon do not save any of the old. As far as effort goes perhaps even more important then the carbon. :smile:

more effort = more results

[Aquattro]

Jon, I do run a refugium, but it has no algae in it if that's what you meant. And it is a recent addition. I just never found carbon to do anything, however I use it just in case! I'm sure it does a lot, I just don't see it.
Now that I think of it, I do have a 5g tank running that is turning quiteyellow. It has 1 rock and 1 acro in it, so I guess a SPS tank can turn yellow.
Jamie, do you notice a yellowing of your water?

[Acro]

Brad, Yeah I have noticed yellowing in the past when I do not use the carbon. I did have a refugium with caulerpa in it at the time though. My point was more do to the fact that the corals seemed to be reacting to the increase in light from the polishing of the water via carbon. If one used carbon more frequently the water would stay cleaner and the once a month shock would less likely happen. If his water is yellowing before the monthly change then to me he needs to change in more often or try running more at once. Just as an example: I always try to go to the washroom before I start going. If I happen to be a little late it's harder to clean up after then If I took care of it in time :razz: Sorry for my poor attempt at humor. :lol:

[rossb]

Jon if I added an inline filter to one of my returns, do you think that would work? I have 2 1-1/2" abs returns from my tank. I could make an inline 4" filter that could be changed out quite easily. This would force about 1/2 of the water to be filtered. I could also have an overflow incase it backed up. Can you buy charcoal locally (just to test the concept)?

I also have a diatom filter I could adapt. I think I might have to try this. :idea:

[Beverly]

To all you people that don't use carbon, would knowing that if you used it on a regular basis you would get "MORE" out of your light's make you want to use it?

I don't use carbon in our 2.5g, 7g, 14g or 42g unless something toxic has died and the inhabitants in my tank are suffering. Haven't had noticeable yellowing of the water in any of our tanks. Do water changes and complete filter/powerhead breakdown and cleaning in outgoing changewater weekly - WEEKLY being the key word here.

Clean the glass a couple of times a week. Have no skimmer, but turkey baste the sandbed, rock and corals 2-3 times a week to help export detritus. Geez, I better do that today after feeding :eek:

Did a couple of studies on carbon use in fresh and marine applications a few years ago. I was as scientific as I could be, but, really, I'm no scientist :smile:

The studies may be found at:

http://www.lostmymarblz.com/75gal-studies.htm

The Marine and Freshwater Carbon Study data were so complex that I did not complete the Observations or Conclusion parts of the study. I left those for any and all to discover for themselves.

[StirCrazy]

Beverly, from what I read your study shows nothing. sorry but you were using different water samples and 1 hours is hardly enuf time for PH to stabalize . if you want to do it again, fill a large bucket with water. then do all your tests from that water. this way you have the same quality of water to start with. Next let the tank run over night to stabalize and do not treat with prime as by doing that you are adding other factors.
then you have to do your tests at the same time each day. as normal bacterial processes in a tank will varry the PH thought out the day but it should be close to the same value at the same time each day.


As for the origianl question, I use 8oz of carbon which I cange out every two weeks to 1 month. If I let it go a full month I do now a little less clarity in the water but only slightly. will this effect light penatration.. of course it will but as to how much it depends on the degree of turbidity. I am getting close to a month with out changing mine at this point maby I will let it go for another month and then do lighting tests at that time, then again 5 days later and see if there is a measurable difference.

Steve

[Doug]

Jon, its a long story from a few years ago. Just wondered about another carbon, like Black Diamond.

By the way, I run carbon 24/7. Always have. I change it when I remember. Either run it passive in the sump, {if I have one}, or in a hang on power filter.

Currently I have two medium sized carbon bags, about 3/4 full in a power filter. Usually switch one about every 3rd week.

Without a skimmer, I require it to compensate for my turf scrubber.

[Beverly]

Beverly, from what I read your study shows nothing. sorry but you were using different water samples and 1 hours is hardly enuf time for PH to stabalize .

Hey Steve,

The tests ran for from 9 am one morning to 3 pm the next afternoon, not for one hour as you say, for Marine and Freshwater Carbon Study.

The tests for the Tapwater, RO and Saltwater pH Change Study ran from 9 am one day to 9 pm the following day.

Don't know if you read the studies wrong, but that's how the two studies were conducted. The use of various types of water was part of the point of doing the studies.

Also, used the equipment I had on hand, and I DON'T want to do those tedious studies again :evil: Maybe you're up to doing some research of your own and publishing your results?

HTH.

[Canadian Man]

Beverly, from what I read your study shows nothing. sorry but you were using different water samples and 1 hours is hardly enuf time for PH to stabalize . if you want to do it again, fill a large bucket with water. then do all your tests from that water. this way you have the same quality of water to start with. Next let the tank run over night to stabalize and do not treat with prime as by doing that you are adding other factors.
then you have to do your tests at the same time each day. as normal bacterial processes in a tank will varry the PH thought out the day but it should be close to the same value at the same time each day.


As for the origianl question, I use 8oz of carbon which I cange out every two weeks to 1 month. If I let it go a full month I do now a little less clarity in the water but only slightly. will this effect light penatration.. of course it will but as to how much it depends on the degree of turbidity. I am getting close to a month with out changing mine at this point maby I will let it go for another month and then do lighting tests at that time, then again 5 days later and see if there is a measurable difference.

Steve
I am very intrested to see the results of these test Steve.

Jamie Now I see what you mean. That makes sense.

Ross, Sounds like a great idea as long as it's simple for you to make and change the carbon as well. As far as buying carbon locally I wouldn't. It's rediculously over priced here in the city. What I just got from j/l for $20 You would pay 40 to 50 dollars locally :rolleyes:

[StirCrazy]

not for one hour as you say, for Marine and Freshwater Carbon Study.

I was talking about the 1 hour you waited after filling the tank and turning on the equipment till the time you started your tests. sorry I might have typed it wrong.

Steve

[Beverly]

[quote="StirCrazyI was talking about the 1 hour you waited after filling the tank and turning on the equipment till the time you started your tests. sorry I might have typed it wrong.[/quote]

Okay, I understand :smile:

In all tests, there is still the control tank of water using no carbon with which to compare the pH changes of tanks using various brands of rinsed and unrinsed carbon. I almost didn't use a control tank, but realized I would have nothing to compare the results to, such as they are. There seemed to be a marked increase in pH in the carbon tanks compared to the slower increase in pH in the control tank. My point is that, initially, adding carbon to a tank, there is going to be a leap in pH compared to a tank that uses no carbon.

The tests were done in small tanks, granted, and maybe not for a long enough period of time. (Unfortunately, I didn't have all day for days on end to put energy into making the study longer.) However, in a larger body of water the pH increase may not be as noticeable. But, then, in a larger body of water, more carbon might be used too. Six of one and Half a dozen of another :rolleyes:

Anyway, I did my studies in the fashion I chose because I was interested in finding out what actually happened when using carbon. Along with discovering the higher rate of pH increase, I also learned that phosphate is added to the tank from many of the carbon samples. Maybe not a lot of phosphate, but phosphate nonetheless.

I'd like to see other people doing experiments on whatever topics strike their fancies and sharing that information with the rest of us. We might all learn stuff we never knew before. That was my ultimate goal in doing my studies. And I DID learn things I didn't know before I did the studies :cool:

[Canadian Man]

Speaking of the phospated and carbon thing. About 6 month's ago I purchased a red 2litre container of "hagen" :confused: (I think) carbon from Petland. I was out of carbon ok :razz:

Anyway this carbon caused the first algae outbreak in my tank. It wasnt horrible but there was hair algae on the underside of a few rocks.

Still have half the container if anyone want's some :razz: :lol: :razz: