Coral Question

[Glennrf38]

Looking for some suggestions/answers. I've had my tank now for about 2 years and don't seem to have much luck with a couple of things.

1) Can't seem to get any coral besides zenia and "gsp types" to grow. For example, I bought a three head frogspawn 2 months ago and it is already down to two heads. The two that are left seem to be very "wilted".

2) Can't get chaeto to grow either. I've had the same ball in my sump for a year and it doesn't grow. I'm thinking it might be a fake plant ;).

Water parameters all seem to be good. Lighting is a corallife 150W MH/PC. Good flow....... umm any suggestions?

[parkinsn]

How deep is your tank? Have you thought about upgrading your lamp/ballasts? How old are your lamps? Can you list your water parameters?
Not that I want to bash coralife but i upgraded my lamps to Ushio and saw a huge diffrence. I then upgraded my ballasts to PFO and again there was a huge diffrence in light quality.

[mseepman]

I have to agree with parkinsn...I upgraded my MH lamp to other non-coralife bulbs (even cheap chinese ones seemed better) and I modded my light to have 4 x T5HO from the PC's and suddenly growth started for me much better.

[Myka]

Even if his lights are sub-par he should still be able to keep Frogspawn. Please list all the parameters you test for, and what they are sitting at. Including temp and salinity. List what you have for filtration and what medias you use.

[Glennrf38]

The halide is an XM 10,000K that is a couple of months old. The PC are about 1 year old and are the standard Corallife 50/50s.

Salinity is 1.022
Temp approx. 81

I don't really keep the params for the standard tests. I just do the tests and make sure they are within the kits "normal". Which tests in particular should I be looking at? I will redo the tests and post them as soon as I can. I am a little lax on testing, ussually once a month.

Tank is approx 60G
24 X 27 X 18 high
Sump
16 X 34 X 16 high
Light in the sump is a T5HO

Its weird. Everything else seems to be happy and healthy including my clam and my anmone.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Keep em coming.

[Black Phantom]

I've been using the XM bulbs for a few years now. When I tried the 10000k bulb my tank started a huge algae bloom. Nothing else had changed. The corals were ok but really didn't grow that much. Switching to the 15000k bulb produced much better results and I'm about to test the 20000k bulbs to see how that works.

[Glennrf38]

I've been using the XM bulbs for a few years now. When I tried the 10000k bulb my tank started a huge algae bloom. Nothing else had changed. The corals were ok but really didn't grow that much. Switching to the 15000k bulb produced much better results and I'm about to test the 20000k bulbs to see how that works.

What would everyone recommend for a bulb? The original was a 14K this is a 10K......... 150W

[Snaz]

Water is of good quality? Temp swings?

[Glennrf38]

Water is of good quality? Temp swings?

Water Quality seems fine. Temps do not swing. Almost always 81-82

[Glennrf38]

Water Quality seems fine. Temps do not swing. Almost always 81-82

PS if anyone wants to come over and help with this I'm always open....... :lol:

[Black Phantom]

Here's a good link that describes the care of your Frogspawn. Lighting requirements, placement in the tank, that sort of thing. Might help.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+321+519&pcatid=519

[michika]

Salinity jumps out at me, why have you chosen 1.022 as your salinity number?

So what are you testing for exactly?

[Glennrf38]

Salinity jumps out at me, why have you chosen 1.022 as your salinity number?

So what are you testing for exactly?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm....... 1.022 was right in the middle of the acceptable range on my salinity tester................. :redface:

Well I would tell you what I am testing for exactly, but it looks as though someone thought the test kit was taking up too much room by the tank and put it away.......... somewhere. I tested just before Xmas.

I think I am looking more and more duhhhhhhmer as this goes on...... I'm going to get my hockey helmet on soon. So I don't hurt myself LOL
:redface:

[MikeP]

How are you testing salinity? Hydrometer or Refractometer? 1.022 is a little low IMO.

[reefy]

ya if youre using a hydrometer, you have to make sure is calibrated right..

[michika]

If you don't have a refractomer, I'd recommend one for sure. As for salinity, try here for some reading by searching, or visit Reefkeeping Magazine, or Advanced Aquarist, and make your choice from there. A lot of people succeed in this hobby doing something different from the next person, so there is no straight up right or wrong answer for a lot of this hobby.

I record my parameters in an excel sheet, however I used to use a notebook. Its useful for references and spotting trends. It might help you in the future to watch for changes or pinpoint the source of some problem.

[dkcrx]

get your salt up to 1.024 - 1.025
lower your temp 76 - 78 deg F
test your NO3 should be almost undetectable if you're keeping corals
also test your Ca should be aproc 400 - 440ppm
good luck

[Black Phantom]

And whatever you do don't tell anyone your using a cheap plastic hydrometer. :lol:
Seriously - if you have one don't admit it and go by a good electronic meter or a good refractometer.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/t-cprefact/Salinity+Refractometer.html

[Aquattro]

All good advice, but there is something wrong here. I kept all my SPS and euphylia just fine for 6 months with crappy 150w CL bulbs/ballasts, using my trusty plastic hydrometer to set my salinity at 1.029. No wilting anything, although my sand did cement together :)
While I certainly get much better results with bigger better lights, and a now set by refractometer 1.025, I would look at all things, not just the items pointed out so far.
Water source is RO or tap? Good membrane, or old? New tank, or used that could have been treated with copper ever. Using good carbon, or bargain stuff? Using carbon at all?
Really important to test for NO2/NO3/PO4 with these types of issues. What is water change schedule?
And temp, anywhere between 76 and 84, as long as it's stable. Ca, as long as it's over 350, not an issue yet. What is Alk?

[Glennrf38]

And whatever you do don't tell anyone your using a cheap plastic hydrometer. :lol:
Seriously - if you have one don't admit it and go by a good electronic meter or a good refractometer.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/t-cprefact/Salinity+Refractometer.html

Now who would use one of those cheap plastic ones? Only the best right? I'll look at that link just incase one of my friends are using the cheap one.............:redface:

I'm also thinking of upgrading my test kit to a higher quality one. What tests are esential and what kits would you suggest?

[parkinsn]

Now who would use one of those cheap plastic ones? Only the best right? I'll look at that link just incase one of my friends are using the cheap one.............:redface:

I'm also thinking of upgrading my test kit to a higher quality one. What tests are esential and what kits would you suggest?

Ca, KH, Mg, work hand in hand to keep all three levels balanced. NO2 and NO3 are always good to know. I would recommend ELOS brand or Salifert brand test kits.

[Glennrf38]

Are those 5 the ones that I would need? I have one of the "fresh/salt water" kits in the blue box from Pisces.

[michika]

I would suggest:

Nitrate, Ammonia, pH, and Phosphate (this one is iffy), refractometer for general keeping. I think I use my nitrite kit maybe once on average before it expires, and I only use it when I'm starting up a new system.
Magnesium, Calcium, and Alkalinity for SPS and LPS.
As bonus add ons, I like ORP, but it isn't a must-have in my mind.

As for brands, Elos is a nice kit to use, simple, and mostly straight forwards, Salifert is good too, but I find some kits hard to replace/find. I also use PinPoint monitors (Nitrate) and Hanna's Phosmeter (phosphates).

I don't know what the fresh/saltwater box kit is sorry...

[Glennrf38]

Is there anyone in the SW Shawnessey area that could lend me a refractometer to test how close mine is?

[Aquattro]

Is there anyone in the SW Shawnessey area that could lend me a refractometer to test how close mine is?

I did this with mine, it was dead on. Then it changed somewhere along the line. Just toss it, get a refractometer.

[Delphinus]

I'm in Evergreen which is close to Shawnessy, so drop me a line sometime if you like. (But as Brad mentioned, you're better off to get your own because those swing-arms will randomly change on you so you can know your error one week and not the next.)

[Glennrf38]

Thanks Delphinus. I guess I had better go get another job....... Looks like I have some purchases to do before I can get my tank the way I pictured it....... now how to tell the wife........eek

[Glennrf38]

I guess I had better think of going RO/DI too.

[Aquattro]

now how to tell the wife......

Easy. Hey honey, look what I got!! Look really happy, she couldn't possibly get mad at something that obviously makes you so happy. Or, buy her some shoes to even things out. :)

[Glennrf38]

Nope..... shoes can be used as weapons..... LOL

[Glennrf38]

The test kit is a Nutrifin Master Test Kit.
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/si1380474/cl0/nutrafintestmasterlabkit

[parkinsn]

When i started out in the hobby i used that same test kit... I then tryed out a ELOS Ca test kit to compare the diffrence; the Hagen kit said i was at 450ppm so i figured i was good... The ELOS tested @ 375ppm. IMO get a good set of test kits!!

[Glennrf38]

I ordered the refractometer today. I guess I will be buying the test kits in the near future.

[Glennrf38]

Does anyone know of an Elos or Salifert test "kit". Instead of buying individual tests? Or a small "starter kit"?

[Glennrf38]

Thanks Delphinus and Kevin at Red Coral for their help and advise.
The problem is still there so I will put this out for more help.

Water Parameters:
Nitrate:0
Amm:0

CA 460
MG 1120
ALK 10

I think that covers it. From what I have read, CA is a bit high and MG is a bit low. Anybody have any suggestions on what to try next?

Thanks
Glenn

[Rbacchiega]

Nope..... shoes can be used as weapons..... LOL

BAHAHAHA I just finished watching Eddie Murphy's Delirious. Priceless

[Glennrf38]

Anyone have any ideas? I just lost another head today............

[Myka]

Sorry I asked you those questions, which you answered, and then I never replied again! My bad.

I use a cheap plastic hydrometer. I just check it once every six months with a refractometer (I would do it more often, but I have yet to buy a refractometer), although it has never changed in the 8 years I've had it. ;) Did you have yours calibrated yet? Have you started to raise your specific gravity up?

Take a quick read through the Guides in my signature; particularly the Getting Started one, and the Parameters one. See if you can pinpoint anything on your own from there. Your calcium and magnesium are both a bit "off", but I can't see either being a real cause for concern.

I'm wondering more on your placement of the corals and what water flow you're placing them into??

On a side note...I used to lose Euphyllias all the time. I couldn't keep them alive. some would live for 12-24 hours, some would live a couple weeks. I never changed anything in my tank, but one day I added a Euphyllia that survived, and never looked back. Now I have a Euphyllia forest.

[Glennrf38]

I have the refractometer now so my salinity is right on. I have put individual heads in different areas, same thing. My anemone is doing well, my clam is doing well. Fish are all fine. GSP,clove polyps all fine. I am stumped and frustrated.

[gbeef]

I would check for flow also , a single head dying is weird. Is somthing eating it perhapes? I had a bicolor blenny eat my frog spawn.

[Glennrf38]

I would check for flow also , a single head dying is weird. Is somthing eating it perhapes? I had a bicolor blenny eat my frog spawn.

It's not just a single head. 2 of the 3 heads have bought the farm now and the last one isn't doing well. I even split the heads and put them in different areas of the tank. This morning I turned off one of my powerheads to see if that will help.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Have you replaced the test kits? I found as someone else mentioned that there can be a huge difference in readings between test kits. I like the salifert kits but I haven't tried elios. I'd suspect some worm or a crab or even a fish if your water tests out. Clams like higher nitrates, anenome don't (usually) frogspawn should be in the middle, and for what it's worth my frogspawn survived some serious neglect at my hand that killed almost all the sps in my tank so again I'm suspecting some worm, crab or fish. Watch your tank at night, flashlight and some popcorn and keep an eye on the last remaining head. One final thought, do you feed your frogspawn? Try feeding it directly, some mysis shrimp for example, just one or two and see how that goes. Perhaps it's not getting enough food.

Douglas

[Glennrf38]

Test kits are new and Kevin@ Red Coral tested and confirmed my readings. The heads are not getting eaten, they look like they are just sliding off. Forgot to mention, the heads seem to shrink up tiny tiny. They never seem to inflate.

[Rbacchiega]

can you clarify "good flow" for me? what are you using for return, powerheads etc and how are they placed in your tank. Maybe too much flow through out the entire tank

[Glennrf38]

Seio 600 on the back left pointing straight down, Seio 1100 top right corner pointing straight across. Return pump is a ...... umm a Quiet 1 6000 I think.

[Rbacchiega]

alright, so where in the tank have you tried? Try placing it near some LR that can redirect any direct flow. Mine have always been most successful where there is very minimal flow actually. Just kind of wiggling.

[Glennrf38]

I have tried a bunch of diferent spots. Hopefully turning of the one Seio will calm the water enough to test this out. If not tomorrow I turn off the 1100 and leave the 600 running.
My tank has pretty steady flow all around. There doesn't look to be any "slow" areas. Will let you know how the experiment went tonight.

Thanks

[untamed]

What method are you using to supplement Ca and Alk? At 11DKH, your alk is much higher than I like to see mine at. In fact, some of my SPS tips die back if I get much over 9DKH.

Like the others, I find frogspawn and hammer easier to keep and less sensitive to these kind of things.

I support other's idea that they don't like a lot of flow hitting them directly.

[Glennrf38]

I have cut down on the flow through the tank and will keep everyone updated about the last head.