Which Wavebox? (Or Vortech)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Looking for advice...

I am going to buy either the regular Wavebox or the Nano Wavebox. What I am wondering is how much it will interfere with my overflow?

My tank is a room divider with the overflow on the end against the wall. The wavebox would have to to go on the other end that is out in the room (kind of ugly I know :( ). I am wondering on a 6' tank if this is going to make the overflow really loud. Right now its dead silent (herbie drain). I think if I drop the level in the overflow a little to accommodate for the surges, it will be fine but not too sure.

I was for sure going to get the regular one but then thought maybe the nano is better for my tank. Perhaps I can get a bit less of a surge going into the overflow and also its a bit smaller. But how well will the nano preform on a 6' tank? The tank is shallow which helps at 17" water level. Not much rock in the tank to stop the wave either. Just a few short piles down the middle of the tank.

What is the actual max flow rate of each wavebox? I can't find that info anywhere.

What do you think?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Or...maybe even a Vortech would be a better choice in my case? MP40?

[phillybean]

I'd go with the Vortech. You'll be able to hide it better and allows you to customize the "wave" a bit more.

[Mrfish55]

The intensity and duration of the wave is adjustable, on a 6' tank you can actually achieve a double wave which would probably work better with your overflow, I think the nano would be too small, if you go with the wavebox in a tank that size go with the full size unit. It wont matter which end you mount it on, you may be able to mount it to your overflow to help blend it in also.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'd go with the Vortech. You'll be able to hide it better and allows you to customize the "wave" a bit more.

Yeah I am kind of thinking the same I guess. Only thing is, I think the wavebox gives a wider wave doesn't it? Will the vortech really create the same flow as the wavebox...cleaning out everything under rocks and really rocking the tank back and forth?

I have seen the MP40's create some nice waves but nothing like the wavebox I don't think. Could be wrong though.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The intensity and duration of the wave is adjustable, on a 6' tank you can actually achieve a double wave which would probably work better with your overflow, I think the nano would be too small, if you go with the wavebox in a tank that size go with the full size unit.

What would the nano do though? For sure it would still reach the other end but I guess maybe already have dissipated/slowed too much? I thought that may be good since the overflow would be less effected. The problem then though is that most of my corals are down at that end :(

I like the idea of the double wave with the larger unit too.

[Mrfish55]

Perhaps you could borrow a unit from a fellow reefer to try it out before shelling out the $ to see if you like. I have had one on my tank for the last three years and am happy with it, I have dual corner overflows and the noise is not that bad as the waves are pretty constant so it kind of finds a rythm.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Perhaps you could borrow a unit from a fellow reefer to try it out before shelling out the $ to see if you like. I have had one on my tank for the last three years and am happy with it, I have dual corner overflows and the noise is not that bad as the waves are pretty constant so it kind of finds a rythm.

Yeah that would be great but I doubt I can find someone who wants to come over with a wavebox :)

I am pretty sure I want one over the vortech but I would really love to use the smaller one (cheaper and smaller). Only problem is whether its worth it with less flow. I doubt it now though. Sounds like the regular size one is the way to go.

I guess the bigger one would take up more room but would also create most of the flow for my tank.

[fkshiu]

I doubt the nano would work very well with a 6' tank. You could ask Roger Vitko to be sure.

I actually run a Wavebox with an external Herbie overflow on the opposite end. After much experimentation I found that the best way to keep the overflow silent is to have the overflow filled to the top of the emergency drain with just a trickle of water going down the emergency drain. If the water level is any lower the waves that the wavebox creates makes a lot of noise as they constantly wash over the edge and down into the overflow.

Tunze actually recommends a center overflow with a wavebox to minimize the effect of the waves on the draining action of the overflow.

If you were to go with the vortech, it would look even uglier than the wavebox if you had to put it on the exposed end of the tank because of the wires hanging on the OUTSIDE of the tank.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I doubt the nano would work very well with a 6' tank. You could ask Roger Vitko to be sure.

I actually run a Wavebox with an external Herbie overflow on the opposite end. After much experimentation I found that the best way to keep the overflow silent is to have the overflow filled to the top of the emergency drain with just a trickle of water going down the emergency drain. If the water level is any lower the waves that the wavebox creates makes a lot of noise as they constantly wash over the edge and down into the overflow.

Tunze actually recommends a center overflow with a wavebox to minimize the effect of the waves on the draining action of the overflow.

If you were to go with the vortech, it would look even uglier than the wavebox if you had to put it on the exposed end of the tank because of the wires hanging on the OUTSIDE of the tank.

Yes thats my problem with the Vortech. I actually DON"T want the wires outside the tank! But I can have the cord go up to my canopy instead of down. Still not going to look too good though.

I think either way its going to look bad but the wavebox will be a bit easier on the eyes and also give better flow. Right now I have two ugly powerheads on that side of the tank anyways!

Sounds like I would have to go with the regular wavebox. I just though I may be able to get away with the smaller one since the tank is so shallow.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah the guys in the Tunze forum over at RC are saying it would not preform right on a 6' tank. So either the regular size one or the Vortech. Hmmmm....

[RuGlu6]

What about having a wave box on the wall side of the room and not out in the open side?
It will work as wel as on the oposite side and you dont have to run the cables over the tank.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

What about having a wave box on the wall side of the room and not out in the open side?
It will work as wel as on the oposite side and you dont have to run the cables over the tank.

Yes this would be ideal but because of a very large monti cap that take up the entire end of the tank, there is no room. If I moved that cap, it would look ugly anywhere else in the tank...it has started to grow up the wall. It needs to be against a back wall of the tank so you don't see behind it. Although maybe seeing behind it would still be nicer than seeing equipment!

So basically just aesthetic reasons.

Anyone using a MP40 know if it will create a wave across a 6' tank?

[Whatigot]

any chance you could run a nano and then a second nano inline?

MY nano rocks my 48' 72 gallon.
I'm getting a 95 (48X18X24) this weekend and don't expect it to do any less of a fantastic job...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

any chance you could run a nano and then a second nano inline?

MY nano rocks my 48' 72 gallon.
I'm getting a 95 (48X18X24) this weekend and don't expect it to do any less of a fantastic job...

That was something else that crossed my mind.

I think I am starting to wonder though if I want a big black box in my tank :) In most tanks you can hide them quite easily in a back corner. But my tank does not have a back corner. Its viewable from actually all 4 sides. The side I say is against a wall is actually not against a wall but faces a little alcove in the wall where my ATO and some equipment is.

Even if I re-aquascaped and moved the big cap or sold it, I can't put the wavebox on that end of the tank because it will interfere with my overflow. Hard to explain but I have looked into it and it will not work.

So...I have to keep most of the flow coming from the one side of the tank which mean powerheads kind of suck. I don't want continuous flow. The best reef tanks you see around have much more random and back and forth flow, which you really only get from a wavebox or closed loop with some kind of wavemaker. Or I guess controllable powerheads. I am just not convinced that any powerhead is going to give me the flow I want down the entire tank.

[Whatigot]

you don't even notice the nano...
Honestly, it is so slim, 2 would not take up much real estate at all.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

you don't even notice the nano...
Honestly, it is so slim, 2 would not take up much real estate at all.

I have seen them and agree but if you saw my tank, you would understand :)

It would have to go where the tank sticks out into the living room and that side of the tank has no LR really or anything. Its a open sandy area. It would be quite noticeable ;) I thought that since I have powerheads anyways, maybe it wouldn't be a big deal but I measured and its big for that space. At least with the powerheads, they can stay just closer to the surface and are not as noticeable. The tank is quite shallow, so the wave box will look even bigger.

The regular one will look massive in that side of the tank. I just think it maybe defeats the purpose of having a peninsula tank with a box on the end.

I think in the end, a closed loop would have been the way to go. The tank is actually drilled for one and the intake is just capped but it would be a big deal I think to plumb it with the tank already full :( Too risky for me anyways since the intake is on the bottom of the tank.

[Whatigot]

I hate it when you're faced with the possibility of a tank being emptied, and consequently, a tank redo that always seems to spring from it.

It sounds like you really want to do the closed loop...
sux that it might not be the most practical though.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I hate it when you're faced with the possibility of a tank being emptied, and consequently, a tank redo that always seems to spring from it.

It sounds like you really want to do the closed loop...
sux that it might not be the most practical though.

Its not practical at all unless I take the tank down and redo the plumbing :( which is not an option. The closed loop would have been probably the cheapest way to go too!

Maybe for now I will just find a cheaper solution to adding more flow until I figure things out. I don't really want to spend $600-700 plus on a wavebox or two and then find out I hate how they look. I would go with two Vortechs but man...$1000 plus taxes? I don't think its worth that.

I do need to up the flow in the tank somehow until I figure out what to do.

[Whatigot]

you could construct some boxes out of some cheap, water resistant material to tunze spec and just see if it doesn't drive you crazy before you go buy the real thing....

maybe worth the little hassle to be certain.
I just meant the most practical for the flow you're looking for, not to actually do.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

you could construct some boxes out of some cheap, water resistant material to tunze spec and just see if it doesn't drive you crazy before you go buy the real thing....

maybe worth the little hassle to be certain.
I just meant the most practical for the flow you're looking for, not to actually do.

Yeah I could do that. I am pretty certain though I will not want a box in that end of the tank...I know myself and it will most likely drive me nuts ;) My fiance has already said she thinks it will "kill the look of the tank" and that I better not spend $600 on something that looks so bad :lol: Being in the MIDDLE of the room, the tank is a center piece and need to look nice.

Probably should walk away from the idea at this point :neutral:

[jus68]

II think in the end, a closed loop would have been the way to go. The tank is actually drilled for one and the intake is just capped but it would be a big deal I think to plumb it with the tank already full :( Too risky for me anyways since the intake is on the bottom of the tank.

I'm no tank builder, but could you build a small arcylic box to cover/seal the drilled intake from the inside of the tank (seal with epoxy)? This would allow you to work to uncap from the exterior of the tank and work on plumbing without draining as the box will act like an airlock in between the drilled part and the water. Once complete just remove the box (maybe cut away the epoxy??)

just my 2 cents...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm no tank builder, but could you build a small arcylic box to cover/seal the drilled intake from the inside of the tank (seal with epoxy)? This would allow you to work to uncap from the exterior of the tank and work on plumbing without draining as the box will act like an airlock in between the drilled part and the water. Once complete just remove the box (maybe cut away the epoxy??)

just my 2 cents...

Yeah that could work.

I also just realized that since it is a closed loop, I could actually plumb the whole thing and then just uncap the intake and allow water to drain...there is nowhere for the water to go since its a closed loop :)

[Whatigot]

hahahaha...
Gotta love it when a plan comes together....lol

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So for those of you using the Vortech MP40, do you think it can get a similar effect (wave) as the wavebox on a 6' tank?

[digital-audiophile]

I love my vortech, I just picked up a second one today. standard 90G 4' tank. I'm playing with it for wave action but I cannot get them to make a decent wave. I just need some practice I think I have seem them make insane waves in videos.

[xtreme]

I have a 6' tank with two MP40W's and I can can get a pretty good wave goin. Everything sways back and forth quite nicely and I haven't even spent much time tweaking them.

[mike31154]

I have a VorTech MP40W in my 75 gal, 4 foot tank. It's costly but I don't regret the purchase in the least, the flow is amazing. I'm even hoping to get a second one to install on the opposite side. Then I can dial them down a little and eliminate a slight dead spot I have on the side of the tank without the pump. I'm planning a 90 gal in the future and I'm sure two will be the ticket for that.

For your 6 footer you will definitely want two VorTechs. With the controllers you'll have no problem creating a wave, even if you have to install them both on the same side. I run mine in long pulse mode about 4 inches below the surface, which doesn't create a surface wave, but does provide a natural undulation of my BTA and a distinctive undertow along the substrate.

Some of the earlier responses to this thread mention building an acrylic box inside the tank to see how a wavebox might look. Well, if you don't want to see the dry side of the VorTech with it's wires on the outside of the tank, you may consider doing the same thing to hide the dry side of the pumps inside your tank. You'll need to make sure the box, whether glass or acrylic is completely waterproof and perhaps extends a little higher than the top of your tank. That shouldn't be an issue since that part will be hidden by your canopy. The 'dry' box will need to be about 2 and 1/2 inches deep to house the dry side and the wet side will protrude another 2 and 1/2 inches into the tank, so probably just about as unsightly as a wavebox. This is a solution some folks have used that have tanks whose panes exceed 3/4 inch thickness, which is the max thickness that a VorTech can handle without the wet side falling off. They build a dry box with sides of a smaller thickness and away they go.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have a VorTech MP40W in my 75 gal, 4 foot tank. It's costly but I don't regret the purchase in the least, the flow is amazing. I'm even hoping to get a second one to install on the opposite side. Then I can dial them down a little and eliminate a slight dead spot I have on the side of the tank without the pump. I'm planning a 90 gal in the future and I'm sure two will be the ticket for that.

For your 6 footer you will definitely want two VorTechs. With the controllers you'll have no problem creating a wave, even if you have to install them both on the same side. I run mine in long pulse mode about 4 inches below the surface, which doesn't create a surface wave, but does provide a natural undulation of my BTA and a distinctive undertow along the substrate.

Some of the earlier responses to this thread mention building an acrylic box inside the tank to see how a wavebox might look. Well, if you don't want to see the dry side of the VorTech with it's wires on the outside of the tank, you may consider doing the same thing to hide the dry side of the pumps inside your tank. You'll need to make sure the box, whether glass or acrylic is completely waterproof and perhaps extends a little higher than the top of your tank. That shouldn't be an issue since that part will be hidden by your canopy. The 'dry' box will need to be about 2 and 1/2 inches deep to house the dry side and the wet side will protrude another 2 and 1/2 inches into the tank, so probably just about as unsightly as a wavebox. This is a solution some folks have used that have tanks whose panes exceed 3/4 inch thickness, which is the max thickness that a VorTech can handle without the wet side falling off. They build a dry box with sides of a smaller thickness and away they go.

Great advice. Thanks!

I am looking for exactly what you said you are getting with the swaying back and forth and a nice undertow along the sand. I don't actually care much about an actual wave on the surface, just the benefits of the swaying flow.

So sounds like two would be the way to go. Except I don't want to spend close to $1140 for them ;)

I will have to keep thinking about a solution...

[mike31154]

Yes, 1140 is a big hit all at once. I had a little difficulty justifying the purchase of an item that cost more than my entire used tank set up set me back. You must have some other devices currently providing flow? Even one of them will provide plenty of flow but in the long term your tank will benefit from two of them. Why not try it with one and get another later to spread out the pain a little?

One thing I should mention is that the VorTech will make some noise at full speed, so if that's going to be an issue, keep it in mind. If you hide the dry side in a box inside the tank, that would eliminate the noise.

With respect to the surface wave, as mentioned at 4 inches below the surface the VorTech creates good agitation at the surface meaning good gas exchange/oxygenation, but no signifcant surface wave. This will cause less of an issue with your overflow than the surge of a wavebox.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Thanks again Mike.

I think I will really have to think about it all.

The advantage to me of the Wavebox is that it will give exactly the flow I want to add and its in the tank (not half in half out).

The advantage of the Vortech's is that they are smaller.

Actually the only reason I am even still considering the Vortechs is because I think the Wavbox would be ugly but then again the vortechs may even look worse :neutral:

[digital-audiophile]

If the vortechs are close to the surface you only have a short distance for the cord to go up into your hood (perhaps with some modification?)

If you go with a wave box and don't care for the wave action down the road you are somewhat stuck with it. With the vortechs aside from wave action they have the other modes - Reef Crest, Lagoon that are really good for flow.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

If the vortechs are close to the surface you only have a short distance for the cord to go up into your hood (perhaps with some modification?)

If you go with a wave box and don't care for the wave action down the road you are somewhat stuck with it. With the vortechs aside from wave action they have the other modes - Reef Crest, Lagoon that are really good for flow.

Yeah I figured I could get the cords into my canopy quickly but its still going to look pretty bad because that end of the tank is in the middle of my living room. If the tank were against a wall, it wouldn't matter to me.

I agree too that the Vortechs are so versatile and that is a huge advantage.

The big disadvantage of them to me is the price and "loudness". I have heard them at full speed and as said above, its ridiculous how loud they are. To me anyways...I have built this system to be dead quiet.

Just seems to me that maybe my original idea of the wavebox is actually the best option or I should say compromise. Either way I have to put something "ugly" in that end of the tank...I think that maybe as long as its IN the tank, it will be fine.

This thread has been very helpful though in getting me to really think about this whole thing instead of running out and buying one of them right away.

[Delphinus]

It might not look so bad once IN your tank and has a chance to get a little coraline on it... I dunno. I hear ya though.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

It might not look so bad once IN your tank and has a chance to get a little coraline on it... I dunno. I hear ya though.

I think your right.

The plan is to have nice enough fish and corals that you would never even notice the thing. I think I have bigger problems if you look at the tank and notice a black box before the livestock ;)

I have decided to go with the 6212 Wavebox. Thanks everyone and I will post pics once I get it running!

[Whatigot]

It might not look so bad once IN your tank and has a chance to get a little coraline on it... I dunno. I hear ya though.

+1

wavebox really fades into the reef setting once it gets a little dirty....

[Canadian]

I haven't read the whole thread but considering you're concerned about noise I thought I would mention:

There's a distinct possibility that regardless of whether you choose a Vortech or Wave Box you may run into the problem of noise from your overflow box surging a bit as the wave height crests over the overflow.

I have a Vortech but haven't used a Wave Box so I can't comment the propensity for creating a surging sound in the overflow. I'm not a huge fan of Tunze in general though considering I've had to replace 3 Tunze 6025s in the last year (and the brackets several times) and over the weekend I just found that one of the magnet holders had a leak in the epoxy coating leading to the magnet swelling and rusting for God only knows how long. At this point I'm confident saying I will never buy another Tunze product.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I haven't read the whole thread but considering you're concerned about noise I thought I would mention:

There's a distinct possibility that regardless of whether you choose a Vortech or Wave Box you may run into the problem of noise from your overflow box surging a bit as the wave height crests over the overflow.

I have a Vortech but haven't used a Wave Box so I can't comment the propensity for creating a surging sound in the overflow. I'm not a huge fan of Tunze in general though considering I've had to replace 3 Tunze 6025s in the last year (and the brackets several times) and over the weekend I just found that one of the magnet holders had a leak in the epoxy coating leading to the magnet swelling and rusting for God only knows how long. At this point I'm confident saying I will never buy another Tunze product.

Yes I have addressed the overflow problem kind of...It is a herbie, so dead quiet and I want to keep it that way. I know someone who has a very similar tank, overflow and also a wavebox. He gave me some advice that I think will work. Water noise doesn't bother me anyways, its just buzzing noise that does. With the herbie, the drain will not make noise at all even if the level in the overflow changes a bit. The water entering the overflow will make a bit of noise I think but I have already tested that out to see if its loud and as long as its no more than an 1" or so, it still silent.

I have had great experiences with Tunze products over the years. I have had to replace impellers a few times but they did so free. Not really a big deal. For me I don't think I would ever buy another Koralia product! But thats another price bracket...a bit different. If I had your experiences with Tunze stuff, I probably wouldn't buy form them again either.

FWIW, I have heard a fair amount of problems with the Vortechs. Although I think that was the older generation and their customer service seems second to none. I just don't want to pay over $1000 for something that is still not quite going to give me the effect I am looking for. I really want to get that undertow effect all the way behind the rocks on the other side of the tank :D