ZEOvit/200G Build Journal - 34G Solana

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Going to need a lot of help!

I posted this over at the ZEOvit.com forum but I think the more help I can get the better. This is something I am worried to start but am also excited.

The main reasoning to start ZEO is my love for fish and feeding them but also wanting nice corals :D My fear is because the tank is doing ok without ZEO and I have heard some horror stories about starting up...although I think most of those people rushed or did it all wrong.

I have bought a start up ZEOvit package with reactor, rocks and the three basics. I am not even close to ready to start yet though.

I have been doing research but need some help to get going. Here are the tank details that I posted as per ZEOvit.com

1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.)

150G

2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.)

140G approx.

3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique

Dosing two part and have lime water in my auto top off (Going to start the Balling Method most likely though)

4. Are you using a PO4 reactor (how long, how long ago, etc.)

Yes, 3 months, Opti-Phos renewable media

5. Are you using Ozone

No, not anymore, stopped about 4-5 months ago

6. Are you using UV

No

7. What skimmer are you using (type, rated water volume)

ATI Bubblemaster 200, I believe rated up to 250G?

8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels

PO4- 0 ppm
NO3- 10-15 ppm

9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels

Ca- 380-400
Alk- 11 (too high I know to start ZEO)
Mg- 1200 (working on raising it)

10. What filtration method do you use (refugium, DSB, Miracle Mud, etc.)

Refugium with chaeto

11. Type of light (Watt, color temp, how old, etc.)

Dual 400Watt MH, 14K, brand new bulbs
2x80 watt T5 14,000K daylight
2x24 watt T5 Actinics

12. What corals do you keep

SPS dominated, some leathers, mushrooms, couple of LPS...very much a mixed reef. Also photosynthetic gorgonians and a few sponges.

13. Tissue color (light or dark)

Medium? Depends on the coral...great, very bright color from sps like digitata, monti caps and Milli's. Not as great color from most acros (higher nutrients) and dark color in some like Bali Green Slimers. Very bright coloration in softies and LPS.

14. How long has the tank been running

3 years BUT it has gone through many, many changes and moves. The LR is all very old but many corals have only been around about 3-4 months.

All in all I would say this current set up (the way it is now equipment and stocking wise) is 8 months old.

15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system

I have many, many fish and feed them a lot! My fish will always come first and corals are more decoration for me...having said that, I want pretty decorations! I have been told that with my heavy bio-load and feeding, I should consider ZEO. After reading about it, I love the idea and control you gain.

Short term, I am looking to simply lower nitrates. Long term, I am looking for stability, growth and color.

16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.)

Two part for alk, calcium. I also just started dosing Mg to get levels up.

17. Live rock (how much, how old, etc.)

100 lbs. max. All anywhere from 2-8 years old. Most I would say is about 2-3 years old though.

18. Any present problems

Little bit of ich on my hippo tang. Not the best color in my photosynthetic gorgonians anymore.

19. Problem description (tissue loss tips, tissue loss base, diatom bloom, algae, etc.)

No algae at all. Lost some color in my acros once the nitrates got above 5 but obviously know the reason for this

20. What test kit do you use (how old, recently switched, etc.)

Salifert mostly. My calcium kit though is Nutrafin and my Mg test is Elos.

21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.)

None...haven't started yet. Too scared!

22. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.)

Temp. 79.5-80.5
Sg. 1.026

23. Which salt brand do you use

Tropic Marin but I have to change because my store is no longer carrying it. I am going to switch to Reefers Best once I start ZEO.



Will get some current tank pics going soon.

Right now the "rocks" are soaking in RO/DI and I will most likely remove my refugium tomorrow and install the ZEO reactor.

[Jason McK]

GSP, Gross water volume and Net should not be the same. Net would take into account the Rock and sand displacement

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

GSP, Gross water volume and Net should not be the same. Net would take into account the Rock and sand displacement

J

Actually I was confused about that. I will update that once I figure it out...

I have about 100lbs. LR and a .5-1" sand bed throughout the display. Any ideas?

[Johnny Reefer]

Hi GSP,

Fellow Zeoviter here. I just started it 7 weeks ago on both my FOWLR and Reef. So far, so good.

I notice your net and gross water volumes are the same, yet you have Live Rock. FWIW, when I set my current system up I made a point of determining how much water the Live Rock displaced in the display. 178lbs of Bali and 58lbs of Fiji (total 236lbs) displaced 16 gallons. Of course this is variable to others, depending on the density of their rock. Just thought I'd mention it. Your 100lbs would displace somewhere in the ballpark of 7 gallons giving you a net of 143 gallons. Not a big difference. Again...for what it's worth.

I like your answer on the coral colouration question. Medium? Haha, I think I said the same thing. I'm not sure what they mean by light vs. dark. To me vibrant vs. dull would make more sense. I'm going to ask them about this next time I post an update.

Good luck and cheers,

[Johnny Reefer]

Actually I was confused about that. I will update that once I figure it out...

I have about 100lbs. LR and a .5-1" sand bed throughout the display. Any ideas?
I don't recall if I took my SB into account. Anyway, see my last post re: the rock displacement.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hey thanks Johnny! I think to be safe, I will go with 140G net. I would prefer to slightly be under than over.

Glad its going well for you so far. I am hoping to have the same success!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

FWIW, here is a pre-ZEO picture of the tank. The tank is a room divider and makes picture taking very tough for me as light on the other side interferes. I took this one at night which helps a bit, otherwise the windows in the other room glare through the tank. I am no good with the camera and this pic looks like the exposure is a little off. I am trying to get better though!

I know the tank is not even close to as brilliant as some of the ZEO tanks I see but thats why I am starting!

I will also take some pics of individual corals to document growth and coloration but I will warn you now, I have nothing rare or special in my tank! Just the usual suspects!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/Tank158.jpg

EDIT: The reason for the black bars is that my stand/canopy are still not done and UGLY! LOL

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

One thing ZEO doesn't ask that maybe useful is fish load/list. I guess they don't really care as it doesn't directly impact ZEO but of course the nutrients caused by the fish matter ;)

I will post it anyways...

6" Naso Tang
7" Hippo Tang
4" Yellow Tang
5.5" Blue Spotted Rabbitfish
3" Mandarin
2" Pair of Clowns
6- 3" Scissor Gobies
9- 1.5-2" Blue Chromis
2" Fang Blenny
2" Cleaner Wrasse

Thats 24 fish! Definitely about the max I can go :D

Feed 3-6 times a day. Mostly pellets. Every two days I feed Mysis soaked in Tropic Marin vitamins and garlic. Nori daily for the tangs and rabbit. Only tang that does not eat nori is the Naso. He nibbles if the pieces are free floating but otherwise he doesn't care for nori.

The mandarin is hard to feed with all the tangs being so aggressive. He seems to know to wait in the corner though and I will target feed him. I am debating finding him a home in a much less "aggressive" tank but so far haven't made up my mind. I really like him and he is eating very well.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So Jason has helped me a bit over the phone today (Thanks Jason!) and this is the other advice I have received over at the ZEO forum:

Wecome GSP, yea, the window-dressing that the corals provide are a lot of fun Read & download the ZEOvit Guide as it's contains info on the components used in ZEOvit. You're correct in not starting ZEOvit method until all parmeters are inline, including K+[potassium] as you'll need a KZ Kalium test kit & if low[< 380ppm] dose K-Balance Strong@0.5ml/25g net 3-4x's/day daily. Allow the alk. to gradually drop into range[mid-7's] over the next 10-14 days. The recommended guideline parameters are as follows:

Ca 380-420
Mg 1200-1350
dKH 6.5-8.0
K+ ~ 380ppm
salinity 33-35ppt.

With ZEOvit, P04-removers are not needed & counter-productive to the bacterial guilds that process these nutrients. It's best to pull this offline when you eventually begin ZEOvit. For your reef, I suggest the following:

1) place 1 1/4 Cup of well rinsed/soaked activated carbon in a filter bag, passively in your sump. Knead this carbon bag daily & replace monthly.

2) place 1.25ltrs[1 1/4 bags zeolites] in a zeo-rx. with the flow rate of 100-125gph.[~30 seconds to fill a one gal container from the zeo-rx pump] Cycle the rx. on & off at 3hr. intervals, being sure the stones remain submerged when the rx. is off. Clean the zeolites 2x's/day daily with 10-15 reps of the plunger each time while the rx. is on. Initially, the zeolites are exchanged at 4wks. thereafter, the time frame is 6-8wks. Always use 10-20% 'old' stones to seed the new.

3) dose 5 drops Bak & Food7 daily for the 1st 2wks. then dose these 2x's/wk, near the rx. when it's on. ZeoBak can be refrigerated.

4) dose 0.5ml Start2 2x's/day daily near the rx. Dose these basics immediately after tumbling the stones for the best effect.

5) optional: dose 3 drops CV[coral vitalizer]daily into the display for coral nourishment. Later, after zeolite exchange[s] other supplements can gradually be added.

Be sure to post at your 1st exchange, as some dosing adjustments maybe necessary. Bob

Basically what Jason had already advised and the way I am going to approach this. Slowly.

So first off I think is getting all params in check. I have a feeling it could be a week or so until I get the ZEO reactor going as my ALK is way too high. I have stopped with the kalk (for many reasons) and this should help. I was going to stop with kalk in my top off regardless because lately I have just heard of way too many tanks being wiped out due to overdosing!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Actually here is a shot of the stand/canopy (some of it anyways). What I am still working on is the canopy filling/painting and a stand addition. The stand addition is for a storage area and also a small counter top/table beside the tank. The tank divides the kitchen and living area.

The addition as you can see needs to be topped with plywood and then either tiled or painted. The plan was to use the glass tile you see there in the picture but we have since decided to just use sealed and painted MDF to match the rest of the stand and keep things simple.

I think the glass tile would have gone very well with the tank and our modern furniture but it was also quite expensive.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/Tank039.jpg

[lobsterboy]

Hey

I too was freaking out to start the zeovit, hearing that the tank could crash, etc.

anyways I started it up, and its nothing but amazing. I am now three months in. so far so good. Dont try to rush anything.
I am not sure if you are using KZ salt, but I found it hard to keep the tank buffered.
maybe if someone reads this, and knows a solution, PM me.
Great aquascape you got there.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hey

I too was freaking out to start the zeovit, hearing that the tank could crash, etc.

anyways I started it up, and its nothing but amazing. I am now three months in. so far so good. Dont try to rush anything.
I am not sure if you are using KZ salt, but I found it hard to keep the tank buffered.
maybe if someone reads this, and knows a solution, PM me.
Great aquascape you got there.


Hey thanks for the reassurance!

I plan to go very slow. I have had the rector and everything just sitting around for a few days now while I figure it all out. I actually have been reading for a few months now to figure out if this was the right thing for my tank but still feel nervous. After all the reading, this is certainly a great idea for my tank...high bioload and sps dominated. You know what I am really scared to do...take my refugium off line! I know it does a lot for the tank! So I am expecting a nitrate spike for a few weeks while the tank adjusts to no macro algae and the ZEO bacteria gets going.

I am using Tropic Marin salt at the moment but am switching to Reefers Best since it is made to work with the ZEO system. What are you finding hard to keep buffered while using it? It has a low alk right?

Some of the more successful ZEOvit tanks I have seen in Europe seem to be using the Balling method to keep everything else in line. I am going this way as soon as I can find the money to buy a proper doser and the salts.

I am going to test my tanks levels again today and see if the alk has dropped yet. I really hope so.

I also have to get the K+ test since potassium is one of the major elements that is depleted in a low nutrient ZEO system. I have actually never tested potassium before so that should be interesting.


EDIT: From all the reading I have done on ZEOvit.com last night and various other sites, it seems that most of the problems have occurred when people have rushed into ZEO without testing their water parameters and adjusting them to suit the ZEO system OR because they thought adding more than the recommended doses would speed the process up. Then there seems to be some problems when people start using the entire line right from the start instead of starting slow, testing and using the additives that suit their system.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have been told that once I get the reactor going, I should begin by cycling it on and off in 3 hour intervals. So 3 hours on, 3 hours off, 3 hours on, ect.

From what I gather, its to be sure the tank is not starved of nutrients all at once which leads to sps problems.

Just wondering how many of you actually did this? I am going to go ahead and do it since I can just set up my controller to turn it on and off for me but I had never heard of this before until some of the guys on the ZEO forum told me its very important to do.

[lobsterboy]

I didnt cycle my zeo at all, just got it up and running, change the zeolites, every first day of the month. keep the same dosing schedule, for 3months now, but am going to start adding, an extra drop of everything, see what happens.
I TOO, had the same problem with the refugium. i was like, am i going to keep it, ????? didnt know what to do, then one day later, started syphoming, the samd out and that it was. I wasnt running a skimmer, for 2 years, before I started the zeo system, so i made sure it was up and running for a month before i started.
yeah i find it has a low alk, dosing everyday to bump it up.

anyways, if you have any ques, pm me.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I didnt cycle my zeo at all, just got it up and running, change the zeolites, every first day of the month. keep the same dosing schedule, for 3months now, but am going to start adding, an extra drop of everything, see what happens.
I TOO, had the same problem with the refugium. i was like, am i going to keep it, ????? didnt know what to do, then one day later, started syphoming, the samd out and that it was. I wasnt running a skimmer, for 2 years, before I started the zeo system, so i made sure it was up and running for a month before i started.
yeah i find it has a low alk, dosing everyday to bump it up.

anyways, if you have any ques, pm me.

Thanks again. No real questions yet since I am just waiting until my water parameters stabilize until I start anything. I have very high alk from dosing limewater. I have stopped for three days now and will see if that helped.

BTW, anyone using the Vertex ZEO reactor? Thats what I picked up simply because it was cost effective. Seems very well built too.

[Jason McK]

the one 3 and off 3 is very important I believe it is the number 1 cause of tank craches or cyano out breaks. But you can do something else. just dial the pump down from full open to about 1/3 open then you can run it full time

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

the one 3 and off 3 is very important I believe it is the number 1 cause of tank craches or cyano out breaks. But you can do something else. just dial the pump down from full open to about 1/3 open then you can run it full time

J

Ahhh yes that makes sense. Either way for me is easy. I certainly got the feeling this was an important step though because every single newbie thread I read through on ZEO.com had this advice given to them and made it clear how important this was to do for the first month or so. Some of them said you can even continue this long term and always have it cycle.

Jason how often do you change your ZEOlites?

[Jason McK]

I change every 12 weeks. but at the begining I'd say 8 to 10 weeks

J

[christyf5]

the one 3 and off 3 is very important I believe it is the number 1 cause of tank craches or cyano out breaks. But you can do something else. just dial the pump down from full open to about 1/3 open then you can run it full time

J

Yeah I have my reactor effluent dialed down as when the pump is off the rocks are out of water as the level in my sump isn't high enough. It works fine :biggrin:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah I have my reactor effluent dialed down as when the pump is off the rocks are out of water as the level in my sump isn't high enough. It works fine :biggrin:

Good to know. I think the rocks would still be in the water even when off but I am not sure yet. I will have to see and then make a choice.

Thanks!

[Johnny Reefer]

I did the 3 on, 3 off and my sysytem is not SPS. I have only one Turbinaria. I think it's important regardless.

[christyf5]

I did the 3 on, 3 off and my sysytem is not SPS. I have only one Turbinaria. I think it's important regardless.

Oh I totally agree, it just wasn't feasible in my case and they (the zeovit peeps) suggested dialing back the output as an option

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

One of the experts on the ZEO board gave me this info:

cycling balance reduces the nutrients more effectively than continuous flow, although, it is not an absolute, & nutrients will gradually be depleted with continuous flow, albeit longer time needed. Generally, the cycling is recommended until all 'stored' nutrients within the live rock/sand is depleted...about 4-10 mos. with the avg. being 6 mos...this is considered latter Phase 2 or Phase 3[see Phase description in the sticky section]Cycling can be done indefinitely, if one so chooses.


So cycling 2 on and 3 off will actually remove nutrients faster. Something I am definitely going to do.

Just need to test the potassium now and if that is ok, I can start. Otherwise I will need to dose for potassium. My alk has dropped to an acceptable level for ZEO after a few days without the limewater dosing.

EDIT: No my alk is still a bit too high. I just went back to double check the acceptable level for alk and I am still too high. So more waiting. No rush anyways...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Was really hoping to start ZEO this weekend but my water is still all out of whack :(

Sg. 1.026
Temp. 79.5-80.4
NO3 15 (Salifert)
PO4 0.03 (Elos)
K+ 320 (Korallen Zucht)
Alk 14 (Elos)
Ca 440 (Elos)
Mg 1250 (Elos)

I am going to dose the ZEOvit K+ product to get potassium to 390 and stop all together with the alk part of my two part to try to get it down! I can't believe its still so high. Thats the one that is really stopping me from starting...maybe next week sometime.

[Johnny Reefer]

Thanks for posting about the on/off cycling of the pump. I was misinformed on that and went with continuous flow after just two weeks. I'm just over 9 weeks in, now, and have gone back to 3/3. I hope I didn't screw things up 7 weeks ago.

Cheers,

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Thanks for posting about the on/off cycling of the pump. I was misinformed on that and went with continuous flow after just two weeks. I'm just over 9 weeks in, now, and have gone back to 3/3. I hope I didn't screw things up 7 weeks ago.

Cheers,

I doubt it. It sounds like if you were seeing good results with it on all the time, there isn't really a problem. I think its a good idea to go back to 3/3 but I am not one to give you advice. I have just been reading and reading and reading so far.

The problem with having the reactor going all the time in the beginning was that it can be too much of a shock to the system. Apparently you can strip the water of all nutrients very quickly with ZEO and kill off your sps.

Many of the cases where reefers encountered RTN at start up was because they either used too much Zeolites, too much flow through the Zeolites, too much dosing, ect. Basically a huge shock to the tank.

Now if my darn alk would just go down!


FWIW, I have NO more faith in Salifert test kits! Elos all the way now. Someone over at the ZEO site messaged me saying to try testing alk three times in a row with the Salifert test...I thought it was weird but did it anyways. Hmmm...different every time. Tried the Elos 2 times in a row and exact same each time. Many people over there have been saying the Elos or LaMotte kits are really the way to go. My salifert nitrate kit seems off too.

[Johnny Reefer]

.....
FWIW, I have NO more faith in Salifert test kits! Elos all the way now. Someone over at the ZEO site messaged me saying to try testing alk three times in a row with the Salifert test...I thought it was weird but did it anyways. Hmmm...different every time. Tried the Elos 2 times in a row and exact same each time. Many people over there have been saying the Elos or LaMotte kits are really the way to go. My salifert nitrate kit seems off too.
Interesting. I have an Elos KH kit just sitting doing nothing, waiting for me to "use up" my Salifert kit. I think I'll consider the Salifert "used up" and give the Elos a go.

Thanx and cheers and good luck with that Alk,

[marie]

How are you reading your elos test kit? Is it 1 drop=1dkh or 1 drop=.5dkh .
I followed the directions on the paper 1 drop= 1 dkh and had a reading of 15 dkh (salifert was reading 7.8 ) It took days for my alk to drop to 10 dkh and then someone on here posted that the instructions on the paper are wrong you have to follow the directions on the card which reads 1 drop = .5 dkh my alk was actually at 5dkh and the elos and salifert test kits agree with each other :lol:


http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=48135

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

How are you reading your elos test kit? Is it 1 drop=1dkh or 1 drop=.5dkh .
I followed the directions on the paper 1 drop= 1 dkh and had a reading of 15 dkh (salifert was reading 7.8 ) It took days for my alk to drop to 10 dkh and then someone on here posted that the instructions on the paper are wrong you have to follow the directions on the card which reads 1 drop = .5 dkh my alk was actually at 5dkh and the elos and salifert test kits agree with each other :lol:


http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=48135

Well...that would explain things! LOL

But I have been reading and checking around and found that the Salifert ones are suppose to be quite unreliable. If what you say about ELOS is right (and I do believe you) then my salifert and elos do not match.

By now my dkh should have dropped. Going by .5 dkh a drop, it has. Going by my salifert, it has stayed the same or gone up. I tested with salifert three times in a row and got different results each time.

I am not really sure what to think of it all but I will test with Elos again tomorrow with this new info and then see if I can start ZEO.

Marie, thanks so much for this info! If not for you mentioning this, I would have been going nuts wondering why my alk wasn't dropping!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Interesting. I have an Elos KH kit just sitting doing nothing, waiting for me to "use up" my Salifert kit. I think I'll consider the Salifert "used up" and give the Elos a go.

Thanx and cheers and good luck with that Alk,

Thanks! Give the Elos a try and let us know what you find compared to the Salifert. I am interested.

[Johnny Reefer]

Thanks! Give the Elos a try and let us know what you find compared to the Salifert. I am interested.
Tested this AM. Twice with each.

Salifert:
Both tests came out at 7.8dKH. This an interpolated value. My check solution tests at 8.4dKH, not 7.4 as it is supposed to. The aquarium water prior to interpolating came out at 8.8dKH.

Elos:
Both tests came out at 9.0dKH

pH at the time was 8.24 (Pinpoint).

Hmmmm, I don't know what to believe now. I like the Salifert reading better :sad:.

One other thing to note about the Elos kit....some of their KH kits currently "out there" have an incorrect 5ml line on the vial. It is lower than it should be. So, when measuring the water amount measure to the syringe 5ml line, not the vial line. I have one of the screwed up vials.

Cheers,

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Tested this AM. Twice with each.

Salifert:
Both tests came out at 7.8dKH. This an interpolated value. My check solution tests at 8.4dKH, not 7.4 as it is supposed to. The aquarium water prior to interpolating came out at 8.8dKH.

Elos:
Both tests came out at 9.0dKH

pH at the time was 8.24 (Pinpoint).

Hmmmm, I don't know what to believe now. I like the Salifert reading better :sad:.

One other thing to note about the Elos kit....some of their KH kits currently "out there" have an incorrect 5ml line on the vial. It is lower than it should be. So, when measuring the water amount measure to the syringe 5ml line, not the vial line. I have one of the screwed up vials.

Cheers,

Yeah I don't which to believe either now :(

With mine though I find it hard to believe the salifert test because for one it was inconsistent but also after many days without kalk and very little alk dosing, the alk had to of dropped. If I go with the Elos, it has dropped to 7. Which is perfect :)

But I don't want to only go by the Elos kit just because its giving me the number I like. Running ZEO with a high alk (over 10) could kill my tank!

On another note, I found the K+ test from Korallen Zucht to be very easy to use and seems like a very well put together kit. Although I have nothing to compare it to since I have never tested potassium before now.

[fencer]

Sounds stupid but why don't you take the average of the two tests. Or repeat (2x)the tests to ensure consistency of numbers. I use the KZ test too, but i fiind it hard to read.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Sounds stupid but why don't you take the average of the two tests. Or repeat (2x)the tests to ensure consistency of numbers. I use the KZ test too, but i fiind it hard to read.

No not stupid :lol:

This is what most of the people I asked on ZEOvit.com are doing. They use both Salifert and Elos and either use the average or just make sure both are within range. Many of them said they find Salifert a bit high and Elos a bit low. Actually using both could be the best way to go IMO.

I think my Salifert ALK kit was one of the ones from that bad batch not too long ago :( So going by my experiences with the Salifert ALK kit is not a good idea and I should probably try another one.

I just hate to think about how much I have spent on test kits now! Well over $300 last year :sad: Just the Elos Mg, Calcium and Phosphate alone were like around $120 plus taxes or something. Then the K+ kit was $50 with taxes, ect. ect.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So tested again...

Ca 420
Alk 7
Mg 1300
K+ 320 ish (low but I am dosing potassium)


So safe to start ZEO! But I haven't...I am still so worried to start!

Seems like everyday the past few weeks, the tank has been looking better and better. Coloration is great, growth is great. I am so scared to ruin things. The reason I still want to do it though is that nitrates have now crept up to about 15-20! Jeez. Funny thing is though, the corals are responding so well to the increased nitrates.

Guess I will start tomorrow anyways...I don't want to see where this tank is going if I continue to let the nitrates rise.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Jeez...still no luck. As of tonight...

PH 8.59
Ca 450
No3 10
Alk 8.5
Mg 900 (Dropped quite a bit...not sure how since yesterday :( )
K+ 300 (Dosing potassium but not doing much yet)

Got the reactor in my sump (without the rocks), so just need these darn levels to get right!

Removed my refugium though the other day so I am getting a little nervous about nitrates rising. I had expected to be able to start ZEO this weekend but no luck yet.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I think the Mg test I did must have been wrong. There is no way that could drop like that overnight basically. I did some reading on Mg and it is used up relatively slow. Even just based on the salt I use, it shouldn't be that low. Plus I am dosing Kent Mg.

So I am going to test again today. Actually maybe get a LFS to test for me too so I can compare :)

How many of you running ZEOvit are watching the K+ real close? I know its very important with ZEO and I do trust all the experts at ZEOvit.com but do I really have to wait for it to get to 350-380 to start ZEO? Its at about 300-320 now. I have been told its not a good idea to start until everything is stable at natural sea levels. Otherwise its quite risky.

I have a feeling ZEO means a LOT more testing in the future. There seems to be a big difference in the tanks I am seeing on the ZEO forum that are really keeping on top of things and the ones that are running ZEO but not really caring all that much about keeping levels perfect...the ones taking that extra time are getting INCREDIBLE results.

I guess if I am going to do it, may as well commit and keep on top of testing :D

[Jason McK]

I guess I would be one that is trying to keep my levels in line but having a hard time with it. I do agree with levels perfect ZEO's results are amazing.
Keeping K levels at or around 400 was expensive and very difficult. That is one of the reasons I switched to RB salt. Because if the higher than average K levels. After the switch I stopped dosing and reading the levels. I guess I really should start back at it.

I know from experience getting the K levels above 380 does effect the corals in a very possitive way

One has to assume that in development of all of Zeovit addatives that effectivness was judge in a tank with perfect levels

J

[christyf5]

How many of you running ZEOvit are watching the K+ real close? I know its very important with ZEO and I do trust all the experts at ZEOvit.com but do I really have to wait for it to get to 350-380 to start ZEO? Its at about 300-320 now. I have been told its not a good idea to start until everything is stable at natural sea levels. Otherwise its quite risky.



LOL, I ended up sending a photo to the guys on zeovit.com I was so ticked off at how difficult it is to read the test. He was like "yep you're at 380". I have no idea how he could figure that out from a photo.

I found with my testing that its very important at first, then less important as you go along. By this I mean test often at first, then less often later. Currently I test every 2-3 weeks vs every waterchange (weekly). I'm also using RBS which helps.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I guess I would be one that is trying to keep my levels in line but having a hard time with it. I do agree with levels perfect ZEO's results are amazing.
Keeping K levels at or around 400 was expensive and very difficult. That is one of the reasons I switched to RB salt. Because if the higher than average K levels. After the switch I stopped dosing and reading the levels. I guess I really should start back at it.

I know from experience getting the K levels above 380 does effect the corals in a very possitive way

One has to assume that in development of all of Zeovit addatives that effectivness was judge in a tank with perfect levels

J

Actually yes I have been told that the results of ZEO are all based on keeping perfect levels. I guess they actually "tested" it on a 15 year old tank for a long time to get it to where it is now.

When reading through the ZEO site, I notice way more test results posted than any other reef site I have ever been to. The build threads are all about test results :D. IMO that makes sense since we are trying to keep things as close to natural as possible, even if your not running ZEO. I really never used to test much but my tanks have also never looked nearly as good as some of the ZEOvit tanks I am seeing.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

LOL, I ended up sending a photo to the guys on zeovit.com I was so ticked off at how difficult it is to read the test. He was like "yep you're at 380". I have no idea how he could figure that out from a photo.

I found with my testing that its very important at first, then less important as you go along. By this I mean test often at first, then less often later. Currently I test every 2-3 weeks vs every waterchange (weekly). I'm also using RBS which helps.

Oh I know! That test is ridiculous to read for me too.

What you say about testing makes total sense. I guess as you get the ZEO going and the tank stabilizes, the less you need to test. The weekly water changes that ZEO requires must help big time with keeping everything stable as well.

I am going to try to switch to RBS I think. Seems to be the best way to go.

[iansfishy]

GSP, is there any way you could give me a rough price breakdown of what it has cost you to start zeo up to this point. Im thinking about starting it, but am getting tired of spending money on "the next great step in reefing". As well I can only get to my tank every second day as it is at my other house. do you think this is something that would have to be constantly monitered, or at least watched very close for the first couple days or weeks? Thanks.

[Johnny Reefer]

.....
How many of you running ZEOvit are watching the K+ real close? I know its very important with ZEO ....
Yes, if the aquarist is primarily an SPS keeper...of which you are, so test away :smile:! I keep mostly LPS and softies, and therefore, am not concerned about K. I have the kit, but only intend to test occassionally for curiousity sake more than anything else.
For me, I'm more concerned with, NO3; PO4; Ca; Mg and Alk. I'm seriously considering getting Pinpoint monitors for the NO3 and Ca, and a Hanna photometer for the PO4. I know I cheat on my NO3 tests and want to get away from that. I never want to believe the reading I get when the vial is set directly on the colour chart. I always "hover" the vial over the colour chart. Not good. I'm not inclined to cheat as much with the PO4 tests, but I still having difficulty deciding between 0.05 and 0.1. Having the Hanna tell me what it is would be nice. And I like the idea of having a Ca reading at a glance. I haven't seen monitors for Mg and Alk, so I'm assuming there isn't, or if there is...they must cost an arm and a leg. The Mg test is so dead bone easy that I probably wouldn't get a monitor for that anyway, but given the confusion on different Alk readings lately, it'd be nice to have a monitor for that.

Edit: I just read the Pinpoint instructions for the Ca monitor. The thing can't be run continuosly with the probe submerged. Have to calibrate before each use. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Sticking with the Ca test kit.

Edit 2: Humpf. The NO3 monitor is along the same lines. I think I'll go ahead with this one, though, given my cheating tendencies with this test :redface:.

Cheers,

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

GSP, is there any way you could give me a rough price breakdown of what it has cost you to start zeo up to this point. Im thinking about starting it, but am getting tired of spending money on "the next great step in reefing". As well I can only get to my tank every second day as it is at my other house. do you think this is something that would have to be constantly monitered, or at least watched very close for the first couple days or weeks? Thanks.

Yeah sure.

I have actually been looking at ZEOvit for a while but thought it was too expensive until the Vertex reactors came along. I bought the Vertex Starter Package from J&L which has the reactor, zeolites and three basics. Everything you need to start. So $200 to start (depending on your tank size though).

It also depends if you already have all the test kits you will need. I would say most people don't have the potassium kit and you NEED it. That was around $40. I also bought the Potassium supplement which was around $40.

I would say for me to start its been about $300.

It will get more expensive BUT all over a few months or so. I am told I will not even be able to use most of the other additives until month 3 or so. So it will add up but over time.

I would say from what I have learned so far, its really worth it if your committed and stay on track. Ie. Weekly water changes and regular testing to keep all levels correct. To me, the results are second to none.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yes, if the aquarist is primarily an SPS keeper...of which you are, so test away :smile:! I keep mostly LPS and softies, and therefore, am not concerned about K. I have the kit, but only intend to test occassionally for curiousity sake more than anything else.
For me, I'm more concerned with, NO3; PO4; Ca; Mg and Alk. I'm seriously considering getting Pinpoint monitors for the NO3 and Ca, and a Hanna photometer for the PO4. I know I cheat on my NO3 tests and want to get away from that. I never want to believe the reading I get when the vial is set directly on the colour chart. I always "hover" the vial over the colour chart. Not good. I'm not inclined to cheat as much with the PO4 tests, but I still having difficulty deciding between 0.05 and 0.1. Having the Hanna tell me what it is would be nice. And I like the idea of having a Ca reading at a glance. I haven't seen monitors for Mg and Alk, so I'm assuming there isn't, or if there is...they must cost an arm and a leg. The Mg test is so dead bone easy that I probably wouldn't get a monitor for that anyway, but given the confusion on different Alk readings lately, it'd be nice to have a monitor for that.

Edit: I just read the Pinpoint instructions for the Ca monitor. The thing can't be run continuosly with the probe submerged. Have to calibrate before each use. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Sticking with the Ca test kit.

Edit 2: Humpf. The NO3 monitor is along the same lines. I think I'll go ahead with this one, though, given my cheating tendencies with this test :redface:.

Cheers,

Makes sense. How are you finding the results of ZEO with softies? I have heard such mixed reviews.

I agree about the monitors. I want to get the NO3 one for sure. I also want to get the Hanna Phosphate eventually too. Just have to curb the spending for now after buying ZEO stuff, bulbs, corals, test kits...and now a Wavebox. Man I don't want to think about the tank right now.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Not too much new in the way of ZEO stuff but I added a Wavebox to the tank tonight...got a little over excited though and actually got the waves splashing out of the tank :surprise:

This thing rocks. I am happy I chose it over the vortechs. It really doesn't bother me in the tank like I thought it would. Partly cause it so wicked and partly cause it matches the black of the stand, canopy, silicone, ect. and just kind of blends in.

I have noticed the tangs already love to swim in the middle of the tank where they can kind of just let themselves go and hover :D

Oh and it doesn't make the overflow loud at all like I thought it may. Still dead quiet. VERY happy about that.

[Johnny Reefer]

I don't mean to hijack your thread into a discussion on test kits, but I got the Pinpoint NO3 monitor and thought I would mention the results I got. As I mentioned, I've been testing with a Salifert kit, but tend to "cheat" by hovering the sample over the colour chart, rather than setting it right on the paper. My "hover" readings I figured to be 10ppm for both my tanks, but figured if I did the test correctly, my NO3 is probably more like 25. Well, to my surprise, my Reef tank tested at 10 and my FOWLR tested at 12ppm with the Pinpoint. Needless to say, I'm very happy about this :biggrin:.

Anyway,...that's all. Back to you.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I don't mean to hijack your thread into a discussion on test kits, but I got the Pinpoint NO3 monitor and thought I would mention the results I got. As I mentioned, I've been testing with a Salifert kit, but tend to "cheat" by hovering the sample over the colour chart, rather than setting it right on the paper. My "hover" readings I figured to be 10ppm for both my tanks, but figured if I did the test correctly, my NO3 is probably more like 25. Well, to my surprise, my Reef tank tested at 10 and my FOWLR tested at 12ppm with the Pinpoint. Needless to say, I'm very happy about this :biggrin:.

Anyway,...that's all. Back to you.

Not a hijack at all :) There is really not much going on with my tank right now. I added about four new sps pieces in the past week but as of now, most of them are under sand. The wavebox has really upset things. Actually polyp extension was better as soon as I added the wavebox but man the sand in the tank won't sit still. Constant storms :(

Wavebox + Shallow tank = Not the best idea out there

I am glad you posted about this. So...do you know how accurate the monitors are? I assume they are quite accurate (at least enough for what we need them for) but I am curious. I would love to pick one up. Did you find it much easier and more convenient than regular testing?

EDIT: Found info saying the accuracy is 1 ppm...so much more accurate than testing with colors and little vials.

[untamed]

The nitrate monitor is quite accurate, but extremely fussy to operate. It isn't like a pH monitor where you can just leave the probe in the water...you have to calibrate the probe before each test.

[Johnny Reefer]

.... Did you find it much easier and more convenient than regular testing? .....
Well, it was a little cumbersome the first go around, but shouldn't take long to get used to. I guess the thing is...it needs to be calibrated each time, so in that respect I would say it's a tad more work.

Cheers,

[BlueAbyss]

So tested again...

Ca 420
Alk 7
Mg 1300
K+ 320 ish (low but I am dosing potassium)


So safe to start ZEO! But I haven't...I am still so worried to start!

Seems like everyday the past few weeks, the tank has been looking better and better. Coloration is great, growth is great. I am so scared to ruin things. The reason I still want to do it though is that nitrates have now crept up to about 15-20! Jeez. Funny thing is though, the corals are responding so well to the increased nitrates.

Guess I will start tomorrow anyways...I don't want to see where this tank is going if I continue to let the nitrates rise.

Yeah, having corals respond well to an environment that's not completely devoid of nutrients isn't uncommon. However, like you said, you don't want to see where it could go if things get out of hand... and that's why people use Zeo, especially when they have a heavy fish load. Like you do :lol:

Nice tank by the way.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah, having corals respond well to an environment that's not completely devoid of nutrients isn't uncommon. However, like you said, you don't want to see where it could go if things get out of hand... and that's why people use Zeo, especially when they have a heavy fish load. Like you do :lol:

Nice tank by the way.

Yeah its just one of those things...you don't want to mess with whats working well but at the same time, you know its not going to work well long term :)

I have another big fish coming in the next day or two and thats really going to put this tank over the top for bioload. I do have a bigger tank to upgrade to as soon as the time comes but I want to hold off on that until I move in a year or so...my place is just too small. For now the fish seem to be happy and have enough room. If that changes anytime soon though, I will either have the custom tank I want made or set up my 240. If we decide to stay in this condo longer than expected (and might because if we sell now, we loose big time with the market down...we bought high :rolleyes: ) then I am going to have a custom tank build around 7'x30"wide and 16" tall. So gives the fish lots of room but isn't massive like my 240. I had the 240 in my place when I bought it and it was ridiculous. If I were a bachelor, the thing would already be set up but if I set it up in our small condo, I may end up a bachelor :D Its 8'x2'x2'

New fish BTW is an Aussie Harlequin Tusk. I have been waiting for a nice looking one for a while now and J&L had two gorgeous ones come in yesterday. I would have taken one right there on the spot but they were not even acclimated fully yet. Although thinking of it now, maybe it would have been less stress to just acclimate it straight to my tank instead of going to two new tanks in a matter of days...oh well, they are tough fish, I am sure he will be fine.

Probably not the best time to be adding fish as I am just starting ZEO but we'll see.

I should get some before pics of my corals today so we can see what ZEO does for my tank. Problem right now is that there is still quite the sand storm from the new wavebox :(

I have had to clean the wavebox out twice a day to make sure sand does not get stuck in the pump and cause the controller to shut it down and sound the VERY annoying alarm.

Maybe I should add a layer of a coarser sand? Any suggestions? Or just let it be and eventually the sand will settle...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Some pictures. Just want to document something pre-ZEOvit. I am pretty happy with color of about half my sps and the other half are starting to color up (most were brown when I got them). My gorgonians are another story...my nice purple one keeps getting brighter but all the yellow ones I have are now brown. Not sure if ZEO will do anything there.

I am not going to document EVERY coral in the tank but here are a few I will keep taking pics of along the way:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ054.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ050.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ056.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ058.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ062.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ047.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Left half of the tank where all the sps are...under that island in the middle is where the school of scissor gobies sleep and hang out. I guess they were not up yet :)

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ015.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So I have officially started ZEO :D We'll see what the next few weeks brings but I am super excited to see how this goes.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The new guy! I am super excited about this addition. Its been a long time that I have been looking. It seems they either come up when I don't have almost $200 to drop on a fish or they sell before I get to the store.

Obviously by the coloration, you can see its the Australian species.

Acclimation:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ088.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ092.jpg

[Boomboy]

beautiful fish. i want. give it to me.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

beautiful fish. i want. give it to me.

LOL...I think thats exactly how I asked for it in J&L :D

I was hoping they were not going to be like "Nice money, I want, give it to me" though...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

One of the easiest fish to acclimate and literally spent NO time hiding once going into the display. He went straight to exploring and mingling with the other fish. Didn't expect any aggression and not even the slightest bad look towards him from the other fish. But can you blame them??? He looks so bad a$$! I wouldn't mess with a fish like that. He is a perfect size for the tank I think too. Just a bit smaller than the Hippo, exact same size as the Naso and Rabbitfish. His colors make my corals look dull!

Going to need to upgrade real soon though now. Probably this year...

That reminds me. I was at my parents yesterday and went to the basement to see my 240. I freaked. I have yet to ever fill the thing up except for a leak test and its scratched! I questioned my mom and apparently a few boxes were beside it. Jeez...boxes scratched the tank? No way I want to deal with acrylic I don't think. So that one is out. My stepdad is most likely going to buy it for his rays and Arowanas. I also have a 180 in their basement but I hate 180's. Just aesthetically. I prefer shallow and long tanks. The 240 is the same as the 180 in height but because its 8' long, it looks way shorter.

I am going to try to get a 72" or 84" x 30" wide and 18" tall tank built.

Actually I will get the glass cut and have my step dad build it with me.

Anyone know a good place for big pieces of glass?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Added some new sand the other day...ewwww!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ134.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ147.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ093.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ154.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ155.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ158.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Couple more corals I want to keep track of.

This one came to me in a trade very brown and dead on one side. The dead side is living again and the color is VERY slowly coming back. Looks like it may end up purple? What do you think? I have a feeling its going to be nice...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ079.jpg

This is a large Long Tentacle Plate that seems to be happy. Not a great pic though, its much brighter in person. Its the only LPS I have in the tank so interesting to see how it responds to ZEOvit.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ075.jpg

What about me?!? I was trying to get a good shot of my clowns in the mushrooms they are hosting but everytime I get the camera out, the big boys crowd around. I liked this one though...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ082.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

And the real problem child of the tank. This Horn coral came to me very bright and has faded the past few months. It used to be bright green!

Any ideas? Someone told me I had it under too much light. It was directly under one of the 400 watt halides. I have since moved it. We'll see.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/ZZZ071.jpg

[BCOrchidGuy]

Thinking of the Zeo system but it sounds like to much work to me. The rocks need to be cleaned twice a day is that correct? I understand the 3 hours on 3 hours off part, for aerobic and anaerobic bacteria... easy peasy right?? Once things are established how often should you take measurments of everyting??? I'm trying to face up to the reality of how I do things and I don't want to get in over my head.

Douglas

[Delphinus]

It's really not that bad Doug. I had the same hesitations (note - I don't currently run Zeovit, but the reason isn't that it was too much work - and I plan for my new tank to be Zeovit from day 1, whenever it gets water in it that is). But anyhow, you feed your fish everyday right? You at least check on them once a day. Now add to that routine a couple pumps on a reactor handle (and .. it sounds silly but it's kind of fun) and maybe a little drip drip here or a drip drip there with some additives, and hey presto, you're done. :)

[FlamesFan]

Thinking of the Zeo system but it sounds like to much work to me. The rocks need to be cleaned twice a day is that correct? I understand the 3 hours on 3 hours off part, for aerobic and anaerobic bacteria... easy peasy right?? Once things are established how often should you take measurments of everyting??? I'm trying to face up to the reality of how I do things and I don't want to get in over my head.

Douglas

No the rocks do not need to be cleaned daily. You simply aggitate them by pumping a handle up and down on the reactor once a day.

Also, a reactor is prefered but not required. Many people passively run the zeovit in a bag in their sump. Which is also agitated manually once a day.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So for all you experienced ZEO user out there, I have a question.

I am upgrading tanks. I have a 200G coming and will moving everything over. So now my reactor is too small...technically. Will it still be possible to use the 1.5L reactor or do I need to upgrade to a 3L. If it means an upgrade then I think this will already be the end of the road for my ZEO experiment. I would go back to a huge refugium instead. I just can't justify paying a bunch of money again for a new reactor.

Just curious.

[Jason McK]

Well IMO you should be OK. There are a lot of Zeo Users that have larger than 300G tanks and the largest reactor is 3L so you must be able to go a bit lower in volume

J

[Johnny Reefer]

KZ makes 4L & 6L models as well.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well I have to stick to my 1.5L unit...hopefully it will still keep up with a 200G tank. Actually more like 250G total water volume. Might be really pushing it but I would imagine its still got to be somewhat effective. Up the flow rate and add more zeolites over time I would assume. The "pros" over at the ZEO forum will know for sure what to do :D

[Johnny Reefer]

You could always just run the extra 1L of zeolite passively in your sump. Just put it were there is some flow and knead it twice a day by hand.

[Jason McK]

Also Remember it's NET water volume. You have to subtract all your sand rock and odds are your sump isn't full

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Also Remember it's NET water volume. You have to subtract all your sand rock and odds are your sump isn't full

J

Yeah the sump is 120ish gallon tank (my current display is going to be the sump), so I estimate with it half or 2/3 full and with rock, sand, ect. the NET will still be about 250 easily. I believe the new display is 203G to be exact.

Well anyways, its a much bigger water volume. All I can do is try it out I guess.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

You could always just run the extra 1L of zeolite passively in your sump. Just put it were there is some flow and knead it twice a day by hand.

Right...this may work too. I have to knead the carbon already, so wouldn't hurt to just do some zeolites as well.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So how quickly did you guys see the results of ZEO?

I am trying to figure out if its coincidence or ZEO but a few of my "mystery" frags that I traded or bought as ugly brown things are suddenly getting color back and quick. Seems to quick to be the ZEO though.

One of them apparently is a Green Slimer. I got a few nice Green Slimer frags from a member here and now one of my brown colonies is turning out to be the same coral. I don't even remember where I got it but man it was ugly.

Just seems that the corals colors are getting very nice the past few days.

Only downside is that I seem to also be getting some cyano on my sandbed. I heard this can happen though and will pass. I did add some new sand though a few nights ago, so that probably didn't help.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I am pretty sure the ZEO is already doing quite a bit. I have really noticed a huge difference in color already. Too much to be coincidence. I will take some pics tomorrow.

My fear now is how the transfer to the new tank will effect things.

Any advice for how I should do this? I have about 3 weeks until the new tank gets here but I am getting nervous now. I think the new tank will be sumpless for a few days while I get everything moved over and plumbed. Does a few days without ZEO make a big difference?

I guess this will actually become a build thread too with the new tank and all.

Its around 200G...72"x30"wide and 22" high. Sump as I said will be my current display (around 120G) and I will use my 75G sump as a water change tank. ATO will be the same garbage can. Most of the other equipment will be the same. Lighting will still be dual 400 watts...switching to 20K though. Currently I have 4x80watt T5's as well (2 actinic and 2 11K bulbs) and will be adding another 2 80 watt T5's I think. I will be adding about 100 lbs. more LR.

The tank is going against the wall across from the current tanks spot and the stand is being built to make it look like an in wall tank. Except that I doubt the canopy will go all the way to the ceiling since its 14' tall :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So all in all, I have been pretty happy with ZEO so far. I think it has done a lot for the corals.

I have to say though, the cyano that has come with it, is making me not even want to look at the tank anymore :)

Its ridiculous. Starting to grow on rocks too now, not just the sand bed. I had heard of this happening when starting ZEO but I was told as long as you go slow, your fine. Well I went very slow, waiting until levels were right, dosing less than what I was recommended, ect. but still have a crazy amount of cyano.

And some of the brown stringy stuff. Can't remember the names. I had been lucky enough over the years not to have to deal with bacterial issues like this.

Any ideas?

[christyf5]

I started slow with zeo as well and I have cyano. I just can't get rid of it. Damned stuff. Oh well, I just add it to the various other things that have plagued my tank over the years.

[Pan]

So all in all, I have been pretty happy with ZEO so far. I think it has done a lot for the corals.

I have to say though, the cyano that has come with it, is making me not even want to look at the tank anymore :)

Its ridiculous. Starting to grow on rocks too now, not just the sand bed. I had heard of this happening when starting ZEO but I was told as long as you go slow, your fine. Well I went very slow, waiting until levels were right, dosing less than what I was recommended, ect. but still have a crazy amount of cyano.

And some of the brown stringy stuff. Can't remember the names. I had been lucky enough over the years not to have to deal with bacterial issues like this.

Any ideas?\

ZeoZyme?

[Jason McK]

What is your current ZeoStart dosage? and what is your Net water volume?
are you adding amino acid and/or coral vitalizer

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

What is your current ZeoStart dosage? and what is your Net water volume?
are you adding amino acid and/or coral vitalizer

J

Net water volume is 140G

ZEO start is .5 ml twice a day. But I am doing more like .4 twice a day.

I am not adding AA or Coral vitalizer. Just the three basics.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I started slow with zeo as well and I have cyano. I just can't get rid of it. Damned stuff. Oh well, I just add it to the various other things that have plagued my tank over the years.

Hmmm...Ok. Did you have it before ZEO?

This is not stuff I can live with :neutral: I have never really had it before (maybe just tiny bits that went away after water changes) and this is pretty bad. I mean its quite stringy on the sandbed. Then now to see it on rocks...

So weird...the corals look great but cyano all over. I can't decide if the tank looks good or not ;)


I will take some pics tomorrow.

[Jason McK]

try just doing 0.5 once a day or 0.25 twice a day

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

try just doing 0.5 once a day or 0.25 twice a day

J

Ok, sounds good.

By the way, I am also cycling the reactor 3 on, 3 off like advised. Don't know if thats relevant in any way.

[zazzoo]

its strange my tank was doing good till I wanted to lower my nitrates..
i tried this stuff called nitrate destroyer ... for about a week didnt notice much ... then the second week i noticed cyano bacteria and some stringy slim brown stuff ... on the sand and some of the rocks..... kinda like what you described too ... but instead of zeo im using nitrate destroyer ......
http://www.tailoredaquatics.com/index.html?a=0&d=63
i wonder how long its gonna be before the brown leaves my tank

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

^^ Yeah I was quite happy with my tank before ZEO and still happy but not happy about the cyano. It REALLY drives me nuts.

I still don't know if its the ZEO making my corals look nicer or if they would have looked this nice anyways. Before ZEO, the tank was starting to look pretty good on its own. So its hard to say what is going on exactly but I am pretty sure the cyano is from the ZEO because I have never had it before this.

[Jason McK]

It's all about promoting the bacteria you want to grow.

ZeoStart, ZeoFood, Coral Vitalizer, Amino Acids and a couple more products act as food for both corals and the bacteria. Cyano is a bacteria so you will be feeding it as well.

J

[BlueAbyss]

Hmm could this cyano bloom be part of a secondary cycle that a tank would undergo while the Zeo reactor matures?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

It's all about promoting the bacteria you want to grow.

ZeoStart, ZeoFood, Coral Vitalizer, Amino Acids and a couple more products act as food for both corals and the bacteria. Cyano is a bacteria so you will be feeding it as well.

J

Ok, so this is then something that I will always be feeding? Does that not mean it will be pretty hard to rid the tank of it?

Im not so sure that a trade off I can make.

[zazzoo]

yeah i dont know if it really is a trade off... but everyone i know or read that started zeo or something simular is doing very well... strange ....

http://www.tailoredaquatics.com/index.html?a=0&d=63 <------ i wonder if this stuff does the same thing ?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

yeah i dont know if it really is a trade off... but everyone i know or read that started zeo or something simular is doing very well... strange ....

http://www.tailoredaquatics.com/index.html?a=0&d=63 <------ i wonder if this stuff does the same thing ?

Yeah me too for the most part but I have heard of many people getting cyano during start up. I have never followed their tanks though long enough to know if it goes away.

Christy says she has had it (and runs ZEO) and it sounds like hers has stayed around.

I am obviously going to stick with it for now as it hasn't been that long now but I am certainly worried. Since I am setting up the new tank mid February, I would like to plan it now. If its also going to be ZEO (which was the plan) then I will just set things up like now but if no ZEO, then I need to plan a nice big refugium.

Im sure I will stick with ZEO but man this sucks right now. I will take pics and you guys will understand. Its BAD.

[zazzoo]

yeah lets have some pics .....

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

yeah lets have some pics .....

Sure. It will have to be tomorrow though since lights have just gone out.

[christyf5]

My cyano appeared after I had a couple clams die which I believe was part of a dosing product I was using, although the product maker says no, I can't attribute losing 2 clams in 2 weeks to anything else. I was also dosing Ultralith at the time. It came on strong and then disappeared. However it resurrected itself quite quickly after starting zeo and I haven't managed to get rid of it. It grows in various areas where there is "less" flow and all over corals that have dead bits or are struggling (then the cyano just finishes them off slowly, awesome! :rolleyes:).

Its really frustrating as I'm doing everything I can to get rid of it. I turkey baste it as often as possible but its back right where it was the next day, sometimes within 12 hours or so. At this point, I'm liking using the zeo and have gotten into a routine but I often wonder if the results I'm getting (which aren't the fabulous ones on zeovit) are really outweighing this cyano issue. I don't know how much more flow I can put in the tank without the fish being pressed up against the glass. I have 2 tunze 6060s a tunze 6045 and a wavebox in a 90 gallon tank.

I dunno, I don't like the idea of using chemicals in the tank (although I don't have any problems using zeo, weird) but I'm on the cusp of nuking the tank with chemi clean and possibly giving up on/restarting zeo. I dunno, it changes daily and I waver between treating the tank/giving up on zeo/keeping going as I have so much invested/going back to ozone.

Currently, upon the advice of zeovit.com I"ve been dosing a bit heavier on the zeostart and zeobak and not dosing the zeofood at all, in an attempt to reduce my nitrates (which were zero before starting zeo, I think I must have a heavier hand with the feeding). So far, no results. I was hoping this would kick the cyano's butt too but nada. :neutral:

[fencer]

FYI
I have been using Ultralith products and I have not had a cyno outbreak yet...but I have a very low bioload(fish)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

My cyano appeared after I had a couple clams die which I believe was part of a dosing product I was using, although the product maker says no, I can't attribute losing 2 clams in 2 weeks to anything else. I was also dosing Ultralith at the time. It came on strong and then disappeared. However it resurrected itself quite quickly after starting zeo and I haven't managed to get rid of it. It grows in various areas where there is "less" flow and all over corals that have dead bits or are struggling (then the cyano just finishes them off slowly, awesome! :rolleyes:).

Its really frustrating as I'm doing everything I can to get rid of it. I turkey baste it as often as possible but its back right where it was the next day, sometimes within 12 hours or so. At this point, I'm liking using the zeo and have gotten into a routine but I often wonder if the results I'm getting (which aren't the fabulous ones on zeovit) are really outweighing this cyano issue. I don't know how much more flow I can put in the tank without the fish being pressed up against the glass. I have 2 tunze 6060s a tunze 6045 and a wavebox in a 90 gallon tank.

I dunno, I don't like the idea of using chemicals in the tank (although I don't have any problems using zeo, weird) but I'm on the cusp of nuking the tank with chemi clean and possibly giving up on/restarting zeo. I dunno, it changes daily and I waver between treating the tank/giving up on zeo/keeping going as I have so much invested/going back to ozone.

Currently, upon the advice of zeovit.com I"ve been dosing a bit heavier on the zeostart and zeobak and not dosing the zeofood at all, in an attempt to reduce my nitrates (which were zero before starting zeo, I think I must have a heavier hand with the feeding). So far, no results. I was hoping this would kick the cyano's butt too but nada. :neutral:



Thanks for the info.

I am trying to get this figured out now because I am setting up the new tank and don't want to deal with cyano in it too. I still have a chance now to plan it with a 75G refugium instead of ZEO if I wanted. But I have to build a bigger stand to fit my sump and 75G.

I was suppose to build the stand this weekend but I don't think thats happening as long as I have cyano in the tank and I don't know how I want to set up the new tank :(

Cyano is not an option for me. I would gladly go back to my old way of keeping a reef which did not include the stuff.

[albert_dao]

The only reason you have Cyano is because it is outcompeting the "good" bacteria for the carbon sources.

Double up on the dose of Zeobak for two weeks. Make sure your skimmer is off and the reactor is running while you do so.

Also, cut back on the use of any oily frozen foods for the time being.

[Johnny Reefer]

I have used Chemi-Clean in the past (prior to Zeo), but I stopped about 8? months ago. I used to dose monthly. Then every two months. Then it became apparent that maybe I didn't need it at all anymore. Haven't had cyano in my Reef for awhile now.

Having said that, now that I am on Zeo, I have asked myself if I would use Chemi-Clean again if cyano returned. The answer is no, I wouldn't. For two reasons. 1). I think it would mess with the other Zeo supplements. 2). There is a Zeo routine for cyano. It's on page 23 of the guide. I think I would try that. Involves adding 1 drop, per 25g, of ZeoBac to Pohl's Coral Snow and dosing this every two days until cyano is gone. I'm not sure if the ZeoBac is the regular dose (just added to the Coral Snow) or in addition to the regular dose. The gurus on Zeovit.com would know. Of course, I would think removing most of the "bulk" cyano manually would go along way in helping this routine do it's job too.

Hope this helps,

[christyf5]

The only reason you have Cyano is because it is outcompeting the "good" bacteria for the carbon sources.

Double up on the dose of Zeobak for two weeks. Make sure your skimmer is off and the reactor is running while you do so.

Also, cut back on the use of any oily frozen foods for the time being.

Thanks Albert, I'll give that a try :biggrin:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The only reason you have Cyano is because it is outcompeting the "good" bacteria for the carbon sources.

Double up on the dose of Zeobak for two weeks. Make sure your skimmer is off and the reactor is running while you do so.

Also, cut back on the use of any oily frozen foods for the time being.

Ok, I haven't been turning my skimmer off at all. Didn't realize you had to and I hate turning that thing back on...the Sicce pump NEVER starts up properly after turning it off. It becomes a 10 minute ordeal :)

I may try your idea but I am strongly considering stopping this whole thing.

I have to say, I do kind of regret messing with the tank when things were going so well. :(

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have used Chemi-Clean in the past (prior to Zeo), but I stopped about 8? months ago. I used to dose monthly. Then every two months. Then it became apparent that maybe I didn't need it at all anymore. Haven't had cyano in my Reef for awhile now.

Having said that, now that I am on Zeo, I have asked myself if I would use Chemi-Clean again if cyano returned. The answer is no, I wouldn't. For two reasons. 1). I think it would mess with the other Zeo supplements. 2). There is a Zeo routine for cyano. It's on page 23 of the guide. I think I would try that. Involves adding 1 drop, per 25g, of ZeoBac to Pohl's Coral Snow and dosing this every two days until cyano is gone. I'm not sure if the ZeoBac is the regular dose (just added to the Coral Snow) or in addition to the regular dose. The gurus on Zeovit.com would know. Of course, I would think removing most of the "bulk" cyano manually would go along way in helping this routine do it's job too.

Hope this helps,

I will check the guide but as I said above, I may just stop now. I know thats kind of quick and I don't like giving up so quickly but I was looking at the tank this morning (lights still out) and the cyano apparently doubled overnight and is all over my gorgonians and rocks.

I will take it out manually for now and think about what to do I guess.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Is ZEOstart just vinegar?

[albert_dao]

Is ZEOstart just vinegar?

No, it is a proprietary mix of acetic acids and other carbon sources which are formulated to nourish the manifold of bacterial strains found in ZeoBak.

If you replace it with straight vinegar/vodka/peach schnapps/Sunny Delight, bad things happen.

I'd definitely give the Coral Snow/ZeoBak thing a go. It will help the overall reduction of nutrient sinks.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

No, it is a proprietary mix of acetic acids and other carbon sources which are formulated to nourish the manifold of bacterial strains found in ZeoBak.

If you replace it with straight vinegar/vodka/peach schnapps/Sunny Delight, bad things happen.

I'd definitely give the Coral Snow/ZeoBak thing a go. It will help the overall reduction of nutrient sinks.

Well obviously...I wasn't asking about replacing it with Sunny delight or vinegar for that matter.

But many, many people are getting similar results to ZEO with VSV dosing. And its MUCH cheaper.

Amyways...I will try the coral snow/bak thing. Thanks!

[digital-audiophile]

I found when I ran zeo for the very first time I had one hell of a cyano outbreak, seems to be a common thing. I dosed coral snow and it cleared it up.

[Johnny Reefer]

I found when I ran zeo for the very first time I had one hell of a cyano outbreak, seems to be a common thing. I dosed coral snow and it cleared it up.
This may be why I didn't get cyano (at least, not yet). I've been dosing Coral Snow from the get go. 10ml daily, but I cut back a few weeks ago to 10ml once a week.

Cheers,

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

This may be why I didn't get cyano (at least, not yet). I've been dosing Coral Snow from the get go. 10ml daily, but I cut back a few weeks ago to 10ml once a week.

Cheers,

What exactly IS the coral snow?

[albert_dao]

Well obviously...I wasn't asking about replacing it with Sunny delight or vinegar for that matter.

But many, many people are getting similar results to ZEO with VSV dosing. And its MUCH cheaper.

Amyways...I will try the coral snow/bak thing. Thanks!

:P

They'll get similar results as far as nutrient reduction goes. However, that is not the be all, end all of Zeovit (substate-based probiotic).

Later in the life cycle, you also the HUUUUUUUGE winfalls of pseudo-planktonic bacterial mulms which are released each time the media is agitated. This is the closest we can get to mimicking the natural bacterial-planktonic fauna found in the wild. Corals each this stuffffff. I've personally experienced massive polyp extension shortly after pumping a reactor, no doubt a response to the increased food stimuli in the water column.

[albert_dao]

What exactly IS the coral snow?

That's the million dollar question :D

For all intents and purposes, it's miracle juice, haha.

[digital-audiophile]

I though sponge power was the miracle juice :p

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well all I know is that right now I need the miracle juice!

I don't have time to go grab the coral snow now but I will get some this weekend and see what it does.

[albert_dao]

I though sponge power was the miracle juice :p

I was being glib...

We all know the only miracle jui -

Nevermind, family board.

[untamed]

Well all I know is that right now I need the miracle juice!

I don't have time to go grab the coral snow now but I will get some this weekend and see what it does.

Coral snow has never done anything significant for me. Turns your tank milky white for a few hours...by the time it clears, you're happy that the tank looks better!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I cleared out the cyano this morning and just came home to find it back but about twice as much!

This really sucks...

I wonder if it does have a lot to do with my very high bio load?

[Delphinus]

Manual removal of cyano is utterly futile.

I ran Red Slime Remover when on Zeo and it kicked the cyano once and for all. I was all jittery about doing that while on Zeo but it worked out fine in the end. FWIW I ran Coral Snow like no tomorrow and followed the Zeo instructions on page 23 or whatever and all it accomplished was I used up more Coral Snow and Zeobak than otherwise. Didn't touch the cyano in the least.

The cyano never came back after that treatment.

FWIW/HTH/IME/etc.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Manual removal of cyano is utterly futile.

I ran Red Slime Remover when on Zeo and it kicked the cyano once and for all. I was all jittery about doing that while on Zeo but it worked out fine in the end. FWIW I ran Coral Snow like no tomorrow and followed the Zeo instructions on page 23 or whatever and all it accomplished was I used up more Coral Snow and Zeobak than otherwise. Didn't touch the cyano in the least.

The cyano never came back after that treatment.

FWIW/HTH/IME/etc.

What is in Red Slime remover? I seem to remember someone telling me once it can really screw a tank up. I can't remember what exactly they said but I do seem to remember being warned about the stuff.

I am seriously debating going back to a good old refugium, ozone, kalk, ect. to keep nutrients down in the new tank over ZEO. I know I should be giving it more time but I am not even a fan of having to dose so much and test everything all the time, ect.

Seems like so far it has done the tank some good but also been a pain. I think what I will do is see if someone wants to buy the reactor package from me. If I can sell it easily, then I will not do ZEO on the new tank but if not, then I will stick with it. LOL...seems like such a stupid way to decide but I don't really care either way at this point. I just kind of want my tank to go back to how it was pre-ZEO :(

[christyf5]

I always thought red slime remover was erythromycin. Which is why it can mess with your bacterial load. Kills the baddies but some of the goodies too.

Of course I may be wrong (note that I said "may" :wink:)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I always thought red slime remover was erythromycin. Which is why it can mess with your bacterial load. Kills the baddies but some of the goodies too.

Of course I may be wrong (note that I said "may" :wink:)

I do remember the person saying it killed something in their tank every time they used it but...I can't even remember who told me this :biggrin:

Hmmmm...Tony says its fine though, so I will use it and then blame him if/when anything goes wrong :mrgreen:

[christyf5]

I'm going to try the coral snow/zeobak mix and see how that goes. If that doesn't work then well, I'll wait to hear your results and go from there :razz:

[Jason McK]

I've used red Slime remover before in my Zeo Tank.

My skimmer went nuts for 8 days but other than that no problems

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I've used red Slime remover before in my Zeo Tank.

My skimmer went nuts for 8 days but other than that no problems

J

Good to know. That makes me feel better about it...Both you and Tony have used it in a ZEO tank and apparently not had problems.

Perhaps I will give it a shot tomorrow.

[christyf5]

Don't forget the "before" photos :biggrin:

[Johnny Reefer]

i always thought red slime remover was erythromycin. ...
+ 1

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Here are some before photos. I will have to take an actual FTS though later.

This is the worst of it. Down in one dark corner of the tank. Nothing but sand down there and actually a decent amount of flow:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA022.jpg

I seem to be getting less in areas under the most light. You can see the coral coloration is getting better and better:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA019.jpg

This spot is pretty bad too and you can see the gorgonian in the background is being covered in cyano. It doesn't extend its polyps much anymore since starting ZEO :(

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA023.jpg

This guy seems to like the camera :)

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA016.jpg

Nice Polyp extension...This coral always was very "bushy" and full of PE but now its really taken off:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA031.jpg

The Long tentacle plate is looking better than ever. Very nice polyp extension and it seems to be eating more than it used to. This was taken after lights out the other night:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA002.jpg

A shot of some of the guys....

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA015.jpg

[Delphinus]

I see what you mean about the corals looking great, at least there's that.

If you do it, your water will turn yellow for the first half hour or so, it will be so bad you'll immediately question "WHAT HAVE I DONE" - persevere through that, it's normal and it WILL clear up in an hour or so (you should also take out your carbon for a day or so and then put in new carbon afterwards, and probably replace that carbon after a few days). Your skimmer WILL go completely nucking futs, you'll have to turn it off for at least a day and when you start up it will have to be adjusted right down. The stuff does skim out quickly though, you can ramp your skimmer back up to normal after a day.

It does drop O2 levels in your tank, so if your skimmer is in sump my suggestion is just take the collection cup off and let the bubbles stay on. At least that should mitigate it.

In ten times of using the stuff, about 2 or maybe 3 times I used it, my ritteri spawned the next day. Whether that's a response to the chemical, a response to the diminished O2, or complete coincidence, I can't say. Just a FWIW.

I don't think it's great to run it, but I have no hesitation about running a treatment if cyano gets bad. It's just a pain because of all the extra things you have to do to clean it up afterwards but a week afterward you should be looking at pristinely white sand and the cyano ought to remain gone.

[zazzoo]

i would not hesitate to use red slime remover in your case..... but the pictures look great untill i saw ur goragania ... mine is all closed up now too ... gonna start red slime treatment today

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I see what you mean about the corals looking great, at least there's that.

If you do it, your water will turn yellow for the first half hour or so, it will be so bad you'll immediately question "WHAT HAVE I DONE" - persevere through that, it's normal and it WILL clear up in an hour or so (you should also take out your carbon for a day or so and then put in new carbon afterwards, and probably replace that carbon after a few days). Your skimmer WILL go completely nucking futs, you'll have to turn it off for at least a day and when you start up it will have to be adjusted right down. The stuff does skim out quickly though, you can ramp your skimmer back up to normal after a day.

It does drop O2 levels in your tank, so if your skimmer is in sump my suggestion is just take the collection cup off and let the bubbles stay on. At least that should mitigate it.

In ten times of using the stuff, about 2 or maybe 3 times I used it, my ritteri spawned the next day. Whether that's a response to the chemical, a response to the diminished O2, or complete coincidence, I can't say. Just a FWIW.

I don't think it's great to run it, but I have no hesitation about running a treatment if cyano gets bad. It's just a pain because of all the extra things you have to do to clean it up afterwards but a week afterward you should be looking at pristinely white sand and the cyano ought to remain gone.

Thanks for the advice/comments. I think I will give it a shot but for now maybe try the coral snow thing. Couldn't hurt. And if that doesn't work, then I will resort to Red Slimer Remover. The reason being, my skimmer is so sensitive to changes. Its a GREAT skimmer but just so finicky. I think I would prefer to try something from the actual ZEO line for now to fix this mess.

One of the things I am confused about too though is why its mostly growing in the dimmer area? I thought it liked light?

[BlueAbyss]

All of the things that are going on in your tank ie: great polyp extension, your plate taking more food, the gorgonian etc. are hallmarks of a Zeo tank and the low nutrient environment that it produces. Looks good! :biggrin: I'm sure that the cyano will disappear as the nutrient sink in the tank is used up... It will be interesting to see how something like the gorgonian, which seemingly did very well in the high nutrent environment, will fare with less nutrients available in the water column.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

All of the things that are going on in your tank ie: great polyp extension, your plate taking more food, the gorgonian etc. are hallmarks of a Zeo tank and the low nutrient environment that it produces. Looks good! :biggrin: I'm sure that the cyano will disappear as the nutrient sink in the tank is used up... It will be interesting to see how something like the gorgonian, which seemingly did very well in the high nutrent environment, will fare with less nutrients available in the water column.

Yeah I guess really, I am seeing more good than bad. Its certainly been nice to already have nitrates drop to below 5 even though I have been feeding more than I was. My Naso and Yellow tang were getting skinny because I cut back feeding when nitrates started to rise. Now they look good again and nitrates are down. The reason I started ZEO was to be able to feed my overstocked tank lots but still keep nitrates down and corals looking good. I have to say its been a success then based on that. The only downside is the cyano and it is bothering me but should be temporary. Or at least I will make sure its temporary ;)

[BlueAbyss]

:lol: Yup, having lots of large fish in a tank almost requires you to do have a system for reducing nitrates. Specially since most fish seems to be soooo hungry all the time :razz: But really, this is the worst it can be really... it can only go up from here over the next few months, and I'm thinking it will blow us away either way... even if it is at the expense of a gorgonian or two.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

:lol: Yup, having lots of large fish in a tank almost requires you to do have a system for reducing nitrates. Specially since most fish seems to be soooo hungry all the time :razz: But really, this is the worst it can be really... it can only go up from here over the next few months, and I'm thinking it will blow us away either way... even if it is at the expense of a gorgonian or two.

Yeah I have to admit I am pretty impressed already with how the sps are looking and I can only imagine how nice they will be once I actually start using other products...this is with ONLY the basics. Not even coral snow yet which I hear really makes the corals happy. If things keep up this way too, these small colonies will be quite large in a relatively short time because I have certainly noticed more growth over the past few weeks. At least very nice new tips and new branches.

Again I don't know how much of it is ZEO and how much would have happened anyways but I am confident that ZEO has helped a lot. Even that horn coral I posted earlier is now green again! It was so dull and beige until starting ZEO.

Hopefully the gorgonians make it. The yellow seem to be loving the ZEO but that purple one, not so much. Although I noticed PE again this morning.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So as I mentioned before I am setting up the new tank in February. Most of the equipment will be the same but I will take lots of pics of the build this time. Starting with the stand. My brother and I are building it this weekend. Just a regular overbuilt 2x4 frame, plywood and a laminate finish. Hopefully we can find the super gloss white (or maybe black) laminate we are looking for.

The other option is to tile the stand. I have a few ideas in mind for that but we'll see what the cost would be. I found the 1" sq. tiles I like (they are meant for a kitchen backsplash) but they are $23 a square foot...not too cost friendly.

I guess I will modify the thread title a bit ;)


Here are the tank equipment specs:


Tank: Custom 72"x30"x22"
1/2" side panels
3/4" bottom
Center Overflow drilled for herbie overflow and return line
Eurobraced

Sump: 72" 120G (my current display)

Lighting: Dual 400 watt MH with Lumenbright reflectors
Either 14k or 20k...not sure yet. Bulb suggestions are welcome.

Flow: Tunze Wavebox
2 x Modded Koralia 4's (over 2200 GPH each)
800 GPH return line


I will be still running ZEO but haven't decided if I should get a bigger reactor or not yet.

The tank stand is going to be as sleek and "modern" as possible to match the rest of the condo. Just a very, very basic gloss white "cube" for the tank to sit on. The doors will be panels that slide (like Lastlight's stand :D ) so they are basically not very noticeable when closed hopefully.

No canopy. I am going to hang the lights from the ceiling, about 20" off the water surface which is ideal for the Lumenbright reflectors and should give ideal PAR and not cause heat issues. The thing is, they may not look right because the ceiling is 14' tall...kind of long cables :( Might look into other options.

Other than that...not much. That is all the equipment for now. Once the cost of all this dissipates a bit, I will be switching from annoying two part dosing to the Balling method. Just can't spend $500 on a new dosing pump right away :D

This project HAS to be up and running by the first week in March when our place is being used for a fashion photo shoot. So relatively fast.

I was hoping to move livestock over very slowly but since the display tank now is going to be the sump, I have to do it quickly...probably going to fill the new tank with new sand and some rock I have cycling and half new water. Do the plumbing and whatnot without the sump in place (its VERY simple). Let the new tank sit and do its thing for a week or two and when it is stable and testing the same as the current display, start moving stuff over. Set up the old tank as the sump and hopefully everything lives!

I have lots and lots of people offering to help so I think the actual day I transfer everything over and finish the plumbing will go fine.

Hmmm...that got long! Work is quite boring today :D I usually work from home but had to go into the studio for a few days. Its very weird not being home with my tank!

[fishytime]

Hmmm...that got long! Work is quite boring today :D I usually work from home but had to go into the studio for a few days. Its very weird not being home with my tank!

You know youve got it bad when you suffer separation anxiety going to work for a few hours.:mrgreen:

[Rbacchiega]

Hmmm...that got long! Work is quite boring today :D I usually work from home but had to go into the studio for a few days. Its very weird not being home with my tank!

I'm sure if you buy it a nice SPS coral it will forgive you

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

You know youve got it bad when you suffer separation anxiety going to work for a few hours.:mrgreen:

Honestly it really has been weird. I haven't seen my tank for about 7 hours. I keep thinking bad things are happening...even though I know its fine.

I bet my fish are ****ed though. They usually eat 4-5 meals a day :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm sure if you buy it a nice SPS coral it will forgive you

It would but then I have to deal with an angry PERSON. I promised the girl that I would not be adding more sps until after the tank switch. She is worried that after just starting ZEO and then moving tanks, I may loose some stuff and there is no point in adding more now. I agree. I just wouldn't have much self control if I didn't have her telling me not to do it :D

Having said that, I am on the look out for small frags.

[BlueAbyss]

Hopefully the gorgonians make it. The yellow seem to be loving the ZEO but that purple one, not so much. Although I noticed PE again this morning.

Good to hear that you noticed PE again, maybe it was just a bit too much of a shock to have to work for it's food unstead of absorbing it from the water:smile: Glad to hear it's recovering, and good luck with the new tank... I'll be tagging along :mrgreen:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Good to hear that you noticed PE again, maybe it was just a bit too much of a shock to have to work for it's food unstead of absorbing it from the water:smile: Glad to hear it's recovering, and good luck with the new tank... I'll be tagging along :mrgreen:

There really wasn't too much PE from it but at least some. I removed the cyano from it manually. If it doesn't improve in the next few weeks though, I will most likely sell the gorgonian. Its much to beautiful (and healthy) to have it die off in my tank. Its such a nice purple and not all that common I don't think for photosynthetic gorgonians. We'll see how it goes.

I will take some pics of it tomorrow.

[BlueAbyss]

Awesome, I've been heavily interested in gorgonians (and sponges for that matter) since I found out that there are colorful (and not) photosynthetic species. Just curious... are there any zoas or other soft corals in the tank?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Awesome, I've been heavily interested in gorgonians (and sponges for that matter) since I found out that there are colorful (and not) photosynthetic species. Just curious... are there any zoas or other soft corals in the tank?

Yes actually. None look to good except a yellow leather that looks better after starting ZEO.

I have zoo's which look OK but not as colorful as before. I have a purple leather which has lost some size. A few yellow gorgonians that have gone brown (although this was kind of starting before ZEO). I have some mushrooms that are very small and shriveled up.

I think due to the lack of nutrients and in a relatively short time, the softies will take longer to adjust. Its a bit of a payoff but as long as they do not die, I will keep them. If they start to go downhill more, I will sell them.

I also have a nice orange sponge that is NOT liking the ZEO at all. Actually is deteriorating fast. I will have to keep my eye on it.

[Jack]

... well your stony corals look great which gets the hard part out of the way.

The other corals just need to adjust.

[tang daddy]

I just read this about the cyano and it was me that told you if you use red slime remover you can kiss the purple ribbon gorg goodbye!!

red slime and chemiclean are similiar and when I used it I lost the PRG faster than my car speeds from 0-60, well not really but it was gone the next day melted anyhow if you're going to try this maybe lemme hold onto to the PRG and the other purple gorg until your water is good again or alternatively lemme buy the purple gorg off you. On a side note the other yellow one will survive forsure.

Why didn't you and christie try sugar?

I had good experiences with this and all cyano was gone in 3 days....

does sugar have any adverse effects with zeo?

anyhow lemme know if you are gonna use the bacterial way to rid cyano as I'll make sure the gorgs survive in my tank!!

[Delphinus]

That's really odd Tang Daddy, I'm sorry that running cyano remover seemed to impact your gorgs like that. On the flip side from your experience is that I have probably easily around 12 gorgonian species (in some cases 2-3 different individuals of the same species) represented including purple ribbon, bippinnate plume and purple plume and none have ever shown an adverse reaction to any cyano treatment I've ever done. In fact they tended to respond positively because cyano will eventually stifle and suffocate them.

Two things to keep in mind with gorgonians, one, they are subject to bacterial and fungal infections just like anything else; two, they do shed quite frequently. I have some that shed more than once per week. Others maybe around 2-4 weeks. This can last anywhere from 1 day to a week, and during this time they can look pretty rough if you don't realize this is what's going on.

Anyhow they definitely don't appreciate cyano on them, shedding can sometimes get it off on its own, but it's better if we can take a turkey baster and blow it off if you notice it starting to stick to them.

Just my $0.02.

[Delphinus]

Also FWIW when I ran Zeo I didn't notice any negative reaction on the part of my gorgonians. In fact overall, running Zeo should benefit them because the low nutrient environment will afford you more feeding opportunities which makes a HUGE difference with gorgs.

GSP, are you feeding your tank Cyclops or anything like that, for the benefit of the gorgs?

[fishytime]

Have you been dosing with the coral snow? When I started dosing with it, the little bit of red slime I had started reseeding.

[Chowder]

What is the Koralia 4 mod that you are using?


Nevermind got it. I take you used the sure flow mod . It apparently fits directly in place of the original prop and shaft.

Chris

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I just read this about the cyano and it was me that told you if you use red slime remover you can kiss the purple ribbon gorg goodbye!!

red slime and chemiclean are similiar and when I used it I lost the PRG faster than my car speeds from 0-60, well not really but it was gone the next day melted anyhow if you're going to try this maybe lemme hold onto to the PRG and the other purple gorg until your water is good again or alternatively lemme buy the purple gorg off you. On a side note the other yellow one will survive forsure.

Why didn't you and christie try sugar?

I had good experiences with this and all cyano was gone in 3 days....

does sugar have any adverse effects with zeo?

anyhow lemme know if you are gonna use the bacterial way to rid cyano as I'll make sure the gorgs survive in my tank!!

I have no idea about the sugar thing. I heard it works though...just don't know about with ZEO. I am not using any chemicals yet to deal with the cyano but I do, I will talk to you about the gorgonians.


... well your stony corals look great which gets the hard part out of the way.

The other corals just need to adjust.

Thats pretty much what I figured. I am happy about the sps so far and as long as the softies hang in there for now, then I am going to leave things as they are. I haven't started feeding the corals yet and I think once I do that, they will be fine.

Also FWIW when I ran Zeo I didn't notice any negative reaction on the part of my gorgonians. In fact overall, running Zeo should benefit them because the low nutrient environment will afford you more feeding opportunities which makes a HUGE difference with gorgs.

GSP, are you feeding your tank Cyclops or anything like that, for the benefit of the gorgs?

Not yet. I was waiting for nutrients to drop a bit since I have such a high bioload as is. I am going to start soon though. That should make a difference.

Have you been dosing with the coral snow? When I started dosing with it, the little bit of red slime I had started reseeding.

This is the first thing I am going to try before anything else. I am going to J&L today to get the coral snow. Hopefully this will work.

What is the Koralia 4 mod that you are using?

Chris

Just simply using the Sureflow Mod designed for the Maxijets. You have to take the actual prop from the original Koralia apart and use the magnet from the Sureflow Mod kit one along with the white propeller.

Many people seem to of had problems with them spinning the wrong way but mine work fine. Once in a while they will go the wrong way (only at start up) but then its just a matter of unplugging it and plugging it back in. So you couldn't use them on a wavemaker or anything but they rock with the mod. Much better than the maxijets with that mod, IMO.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

What is the Koralia 4 mod that you are using?


Nevermind got it. I take you used the sure flow mod . It apparently fits directly in place of the original prop and shaft.

Chris

Yup but you have to change the magnet too :)

[Chowder]

Thanks . I found it shortly after I posted .

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Took some pictures before lights on this morning.

Its interesting how this coral has almost none of its usual color (its the blueish purple acro in previous posts). I figured it was because of the flash but even when I look at it without a flash, its hard to see any blue or purple...its just kind of a dull brown like this.

I have watched this coral carefully and the long polyps that extend from the tips (not extended in the pic below) are almost always on schedule...they extend right at 12 with lights out and retract by 6am. These were taken at about 10 am and you can see it has all other polyps extended still but not the big ones on the tips. Do these polyps have a name???

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA035.jpg

I rarely get a good picture of my Yellow Tang even though he is so friendly and stays still. So here:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA041.jpg

And the Naso posing infront of some dirty glass :)

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA039.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The new tank being lite with ONLY two 400 watt Metal Halides, and no actinic lighting, people on RC are suggesting 20K (which I was thinking anyways) and using either Radium or XM. Seems more people are saying XM but I think thats just because they are cheaper? I haven't seen Radiums here in town either.

Apparently though, the PFO ballast I am using overdrives bulbs and the Radiums are good because they are good at 430 watts. Which is why people use them with HQI ballasts I guess?

Also people are saying the XM's are certainly bluer. Apparently the Radiums are a more whitish blue while the XM's are a more deep blue.

Anyone have another opinion?

People have been telling me PAR and growth will be fine from either one but for some reason, it worries me. I guess the other upside to 20K is that less algae is likely to grow under them.

[albert_dao]

Big polyps on acros are called axial polyps.

I need to get back to this thread later in the evening. We have some myths to dispel, :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

^^So why haven't all these myths been dispelled yet???

[Pan]

has to think them up first :)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

has to think them up first :)

I am just curious because I went back and read most of the thread and can't really find much that I think may be myth...

I thought maybe some of the cyano stuff recently but couldn't be that since people are simply posting experiences they actually have encountered. Thought maybe my lighting comments but again, it all comes from actual experiences, not just ideas or myths...

C'mon! You have us all wondering! ;)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

On another note, I started the Coral Snow today for cyano, so we'll see how that goes.

I am also going to need a 3L reactor according to the ZEOvit.com guys. I PM'd one of the main guys there and he says a 1.5L reactor is just way too undersized for my new Net Water Volume. I mentioned keeping a filter bag of ZEO passively in the sump as well but apparently it won't quite do the same thing. He did say if I can't upgrade it may work but just not nearly as effective.

So I am going to see if I can sell the 1.5L for a decent price and then buy a 3L. If I can't sell it for what I want, then I will try it out and see how it goes.

Right now though, I need to slow down on spending! New tank, stand, pendants, bulbs, ZEO reactor, expensive fish, ect, ect. Its adding up to well over $2000 the past month and a half :(

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Disappointed...someone claims to be coming back to "dispel" all these myths and then never shows?

;)


Anyways, started coral snow two days ago and not much cyano left. Just a tiny bit in one spot but it looks to be going away too. This stuff is pretty awesome. Coral polyp extension was pretty crazy while dosing it too :D

[Pan]

Disappointed...someone claims to be coming back to "dispel" all these myths and then never shows?

;)


Anyways, started coral snow two days ago and not much cyano left. Just a tiny bit in one spot but it looks to be going away too. This stuff is pretty awesome. Coral polyp extension was pretty crazy while dosing it too :D
You dosing coral snow at the start?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

You dosing coral snow at the start?

No I never did. So I think coral snow should be used from the beginning to control or prevent cyano.

I am really amazed at how quickly its taken care of the huge outbreak. Literally two doses and its 80% gone. I would say another day or two and no more cyano.


Much better solution in my opinion than red slime remover or especially lights out for a few days.

[Pan]

No I never did. So I think coral snow should be used from the beginning to control or prevent cyano.

I am really amazed at how quickly its taken care of the huge outbreak. Literally two doses and its 80% gone. I would say another day or two and no more cyano.


Much better solution in my opinion than red slime remover or especially lights out for a few days.


The guys over on the zeovit forum mentioned using zeozyme rather than coral snow at startup ... i havn't used either :) I used coral snow before i had a full zeo system though, worked nicely.

[digital-audiophile]

I'm glad the coral snow helped. It really helped me :)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The guys over on the zeovit forum mentioned using zeozyme rather than coral snow at startup ... i havn't used either :) I used coral snow before i had a full zeo system though, worked nicely.

Yeah I they told me that too but I refuse to pay the insane price of the ZEOzyme. The idea for me was to use the basic ZEO system to get my nutrients down and a FEW additives if needed. But also to keep costs down. I don't want to start dosing hundreds of dollars of products and be counting drops all day. IMO then ZEO is very inconvenient. I am already finding the 5 drops a day of two additives and 5ml a day of the ZEOstart getting old.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm glad the coral snow helped. It really helped me :)

I figured it would but not this fast. WOW. A whole sand bed of cyano almost gone in two days. Plus coral PE seemed better right after dosing coral snow.

[christyf5]

I'm on my fourth day of dosing the coral snow with zeobak and its helping a lot as well :biggrin:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm on my fourth day of dosing the coral snow with zeobak and its helping a lot as well :biggrin:

What are you doing with the ZEObak? Just dosing more?

I never bothered to increase the dosage or anything myself. Just dosed the coral snow.

[new but handy]

Hey GSP nice win last night. sorry to but in but J&l has a 3l auger style zeo reactor on for $279 in the clearance section. Carry on

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hey GSP nice win last night. sorry to but in but J&l has a 3l auger style zeo reactor on for $279 in the clearance section. Carry on

Yeah I am kind of tired today :D That took a lot out of me :lol:

Now back to the aquarium build...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

...To make matters worse, the Hydra's very breath was lethal. Even smelling its footprints was enough to kill an ordinary mortal. Fortunately, Heracles was no ordinary mortal. He sought out the monster in its lair and brought it out into the open with flaming arrows. But now the fight went in the Hydra's favor.It twined its many heads around the hero and tried to trip him up. It called on an ally, a huge crab that also lived in the swamp. The crab bit Heracles in the heel and further impeded his attack. Heracles was on the verge of failure when he remembered his nephew, Iolaus, the son of his twin brother Iphicles......


































Just wanted to add some more myths to the thread

[Johnny Reefer]

.... I am already finding the 5 drops a day of two additives and 5ml a day of the ZEOstart getting old.
5ml or 0.5ml?

Glad to hear the PCS worked.

[christyf5]

What are you doing with the ZEObak? Just dosing more?

I never bothered to increase the dosage or anything myself. Just dosed the coral snow.

I've been dosing 4 drops daily in about 3-4ml of coral snow.

Prior to this I dosed the zeobak separately, 4 drops 3x weekly and the coral snow about 2-3x a week at about 2-3ml.

I've dosed coral snow even before I started the zeovit regime as that and the coral vitalizer were what got me to switch from ultralith.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

5ml or 0.5ml?

Glad to hear the PCS worked.

Hahaha...yeah not 5ML!!!

.5 ml twice a day :)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I've been dosing 4 drops daily in about 3-4ml of coral snow.

Prior to this I dosed the zeobak separately, 4 drops 3x weekly and the coral snow about 2-3x a week at about 2-3ml.

I've dosed coral snow even before I started the zeovit regime as that and the coral vitalizer were what got me to switch from ultralith.

Oh OK, I see. I was told here to increase the Bak while using the Coral snow to deal with the cyano but on the ZEO forum, one of the experts there advised me that was really not necessary. I guess he said it wouldn't hurt anything but he wouldn't do it. I was told to just keep doing what I am doing but dose the coral snow.

For me this is working, so I am going to keep up this way until all the cyano is gone and then use coral snow twice a week.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So I finished the framing and priming of the stand today. One thing I am still not sure of is whether to use foam or just plywood under the tank.

I have 1/2" to work with. The "skin" plywood for the sides and doors has to cover whatever I use underneath the tank and I figured 1/2" space should be fine. I can add another 1/2" if needed but I prefer not to.

If I do use foam, what is the best to use? In the past I have used that thick pink foam but I really don't think that stuff is necessary. I would prefer something much thinner.

I am leaning towards just using a sheet of plywood under the tank I think though. We'll see.

[Delphinus]

Glad to hear the Zeobak and Coral Snow worked out. It never worked out for me, but things that work for everyone else, usually don't for me, so I'll just add that to the list of other items that cause me to believe I live in a different universe subject to differnt physical laws than everyone else.. :nejutral:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Glad to hear the Zeobak and Coral Snow worked out. It never worked out for me, but things that work for everyone else, usually don't for me, so I'll just add that to the list of other items that cause me to believe I live in a different universe subject to differnt physical laws than everyone else.. :nejutral:

Well I missed dosing yesterday and it has come back pretty bad. Its amazing how quickly it is coming and going.

Come to think of it, I missed dosing before going in to work today too...not just the coral snow but everything.

I am kind of starting to feel like ZEO is a bit too much "work" for me. Maybe saying too much work is not what I am feeling but I guess kind of too much messing with the tank. I got sick of 5 drops of this and 5 drops of that after about a week.

Meh...I doubt I will continue ZEO on the new tank. Too much work IMO and I can get the same/similar results other ways. I do think its a great system but just not for me. I don't like daily maintenance on the tank ;)

[BlueAbyss]

...To make matters worse, the Hydra's very breath was lethal. Even smelling its footprints was enough to kill an ordinary mortal. Fortunately, Heracles was no ordinary mortal. He sought out the monster in its lair and brought it out into the open with flaming arrows. But now the fight went in the Hydra's favor.It twined its many heads around the hero and tried to trip him up. It called on an ally, a huge crab that also lived in the swamp. The crab bit Heracles in the heel and further impeded his attack. Heracles was on the verge of failure when he remembered his nephew, Iolaus, the son of his twin brother Iphicles......

:lol: Did anyone try catching that crab with a trap? Someone should market it.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

:lol: Did anyone try catching that crab with a trap? Someone should market it.

LOL...I bet that crab is just a myth :) We will have to wait and see if its one of the myths that are to be dispelled.

On another note, I got my Lumenbright reflectors today and they are pretty sweet! Much larger than I though, which is a good thing. They are also very deep (also good) so I see why you can keep them relatively high off the water and still get great PAR. Apparently they do not spill much light into the room.

Its nice to finally have some quality reflectors!

I will take some pics of them after I unwrap them tonight. I will be building a small hanging "rack" for them out of aluminum. I had planned to just hang them individually but I think for leveling purposes, having them on the same rack would be good. Just going to be a very simple rectangle to bolt them to. Not welded or anything...just screwed. Most likely it will be all painted black.

[digital-audiophile]

Have you tried that new zeozyme? I've been thinking about giving it a shot to help with my Green film algae.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Have you tried that new zeozyme? I've been thinking about giving it a shot to help with my Green film algae.

No I haven't. I did look at it but thought it was kind of expensive.

I really want to make sure I draw the line somewhere and don't just buy a new additive every time I have an algae outbreak or cyano. Having said that, I may have bought it if the coral snow had not helped with my cyano.

The cyano did come back though after a few days of no coral snow dosing.

I actually missed dosing the full ZEO line for almost 3 days :(

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Heres one of the reflectors. Pictures don't pick up how reflective they are but you get the idea.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/AAA043.jpg

[spoot]

Ooo, shiney, so I guess you scrapped the idea of DIY reflectors eh?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ooo, shiney, so I guess you scrapped the idea of DIY reflectors eh?

Ya...I guess. I really wanted to do that but in the end I guess this was just easier.

I bought two XM 20K bulbs today and even with my old reflectors and crappy light set up, they are great. Really like the color and you certainly don't need any actinics. They seem WAY brighter than I thought 20K would be.

I would have loved to have been able to get PAR readings before and after changing the bulbs. Would have been interesting to see the difference between year old 14K and brand new 20K. The new ones of course look 10 times brighter even though they are so much bluer.


Hahaha...I also just realized I forgot to dose ZEO again today. I am on quite the roll here. I did it all yesterday but have missed 3 of the past 4 days :neutral: I really hate messing with the tank on a daily basis. I prefer just to watch it. Thats the funny thing...I must have spent like 2-3 hours today just sitting and watching the fish but it never occurred to me to dose the ZEO.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Going to be hard to explain but looking for light hanging help.

I need to hang my two reflectors. I was thinking to build a rectangle out of aluminum to bolt them both to and then hang it. So very basic. What I am wondering about though, is how to hang the whole unit. I was hoping to hang it how pool table light racks are often hung...(heres where I can't really explain things) so that there are four cables bolted in each corner that then meet a few feet up and in the middle...make sense? So that only one cable is bolted to the ceiling.

But this seems like it would move around maybe? Will it stay steady? A heavy fixture would have an easier time staying steady but this would be so light. Am I better doing this a different way?

Or any other ideas for hanging the lights? Even thought of doing something like rods from the back of the stand that extend out over the tank and the reflectors hang off of them but I think this would be ugly.

Looking for ideas because my ceilings are 14' high and concrete. I don't really want to be drilling them too much. I also think its going to look silly having the lights hang down so far...

[Jason McK]

Check out Untamed's build thread he has very detailed light hanging ideas

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Check out Untamed's build thread he has very detailed light hanging ideas

J

I am going to his place today actually so I will see if his lights inspire me at all :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The coral snow is no longer working for the cyano. It came back 10 times worse after about 4 days of being gone completely. Nothing had changed in that time except I was feeding much less to the fish.

I still dont want to use any chemicals, so I am going to do the lights out for a few days. I have added a few new corals though two days ago and was worried that maybe going lights out on them already may just add more stress than normal since they are new to the tank? They did come from a members tank and have acclimated great.

[Rbacchiega]

I hate to say it, but it's starting to sound like Zeo can be more trouble than it's worth. i've read some zeo threads where people have no cyano outbreak, and others were peoples tanks are over run with it. I wonder what makes the difference between the two....odd

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I hate to say it, but it's starting to sound like Zeo can be more trouble than it's worth. i've read some zeo threads where people have no cyano outbreak, and others were peoples tanks are over run with it. I wonder what makes the difference between the two....odd

I think it has to do with your nutrient levels at the beginning of zeo, during zeo and how lucky you are. Luck because you are feeding bacteria with the carbon source but not just a specific strain of bacteria. In this case, cyano is being fed and is apparently dominant. This is obviously the reason to dose more ZEObak (bacteria) but I think you still have to get lucky.

And yes, I feel now that ZEO is more of a pain than its worth and still don't know about starting again with the new tank...leaning towards no.

[Rbacchiega]

well I'm starting to vodka dose the 90 today (as soon as I get a syringe...) so I'll keep you posted. I recently discovered that an old friend of mine from way back in the day vodka doses their tank and think it's the greatest thing ever. I was a little worried about trying it because of the DSB, but have read how some people deal with it. IF they have problems. I guess what it breaks down to for me is: Zeovit - hundreds of dollars. Vodka - 40 bucks.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So after all the searching for ideas on how to hang the lights...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/19737fulltankresize2.jpg



Doesn't get much simpler ant it looks EXACTLY how I want mine. These are the exact same reflectors hung by one cable each. I PM'd the guy and he said they never move around unless you move them physically.

[Johnny Reefer]

Any idea what that unit is he's got on his return hose?

[Rbacchiega]

hard to tell, but it looks like a sea swirl?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

hard to tell, but it looks like a sea swirl?

That would be my guess but no idea.

[spoot]

Can't wait to see it Justin!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

"Do I have something stuck in my teeth?"

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/0000000001.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/0000000004.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/0000000005.jpg

[Jack]

Nice colours.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Nice colours.

Yeah this was under the 14K MH and T5's I was running that were kind of whitish with almost a yellow tinge. Now under the 20K XM's, he is kind of dull. Well the blue is brighter but the orange is not as vibrant.

Same with some coral. My hot pink birdsnest doesn't look nearly as nice under the 20k's but man the greens, blues and purples really pop.

[christyf5]

Any idea what that unit is he's got on his return hose?

Now theres a loaded question! :wink:

sorry couldnt' resist :razz:

I vote seaswirl as well. Looks like he's just put some green tape on it or something.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So my brother and I both kind of decided the lights looked terrible hanging. Not sure why but in my place it just didn't work. Weird because its a very raw, industrial loft, yet the aircraft cable just wasn't looking to great. Sorry no pics cause the camera was dead.

So.....We decided to use 1" electrical conduit pipe attached to the back of the stand to create two light hanging arms. Still need to paint them and actually hang the reflectors from them but I think they will look really slick. I am able to run the lights wiring through the conduit and down behind the tank stand which is great. So no wiring will show :D

The reflectors are still very easily adjustable for height as well. Just feel this is an all around great solution and only cost about $50 in materials.

I have also found the hardware I will use to hang the doors. Actually its the exact same tract system that "lastlight" used for his doors. After seeing his stand and speaking to him, I decided I also would prefer the doors to slide rather than be on hinges.

I will take some pics of everything soon.

[Rbacchiega]

this is on your current setup right? Not the new, bigger tank?

I really like what some people on RC are doing...when they get a metal stand built, the build a light unit to attatch to it as well. Then they skin it with whatever material they like..

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

this is on your current setup right? Not the new, bigger tank?

I really like what some people on RC are doing...when they get a metal stand built, the build a light unit to attatch to it as well. Then they skin it with whatever material they like..

No we are hanging the lights over the new tank already. Well the new tank is not here yet until Saturday but we are getting everything ready so I can start the transfer right away. So we have the stand in place and hung the lights but my fiance, brother and I all kind of though they looked bad. Even when imagining the tank in place. My brother and I went across the street to HD to look for a solution and found the conduit. So we made the most basic arms we could. Just a long piece of the pipe, bolted to the back of the stand with a 90 degree fitting at the top and another length of pipe that extends out over the tank. Drilled a few holes in it to hang the reflectors from. Thats it. Nothing to it and its nice to hide the wires in the pipe.

The plan is to paint the whole thing black BUT I am going to wait until the tank is in place and see how it looks left in the raw grey. The wall behind the tank is exposed concrete, so it may work as is.

[Rbacchiega]

ooooooooooooooh I get it. There was a tank of the month on RC that used a similar idea...I think. Then again, I could be totally wrong. My brain is about to explode trying to get the perspective of this drawing to where I'm happy with it....blaaaaaaaaaah

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So here is a little preview of the stand/lights. Just primed so far, still needs to be painted. MOst likely will stay white I think though. The tank is being picked up today and once its on the stand, we will decide on what color the stand will be. The doors are on drawer slides like "lastlight"s stand...Love this idea. May need to add a few small handles but not sure yet if we want to.

The lights didn't really work exactly like I wanted but close enough for now I think. They will work anyways :) They are relatively easy to adjust for height. I just need to find some caps for the ends of the arms...Also might still drill the conduit and run the wires down through it but I doubt the wires will even be noticeable once the tank is on there. Looks like one light is higher than the other in the picture but they are actually level. And ever so slightly angled back to help with glare when looking at the tank sitting down.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/0000000034.jpg

And look! Safety! Switched one of the outlets behind the tank to GFCI for some equipment. Not all will be on the GFCI because I have had them trip before and shut down the whole tank for hours while I was out. Don't want to have that happen ever again. Some of the low wattage powerheads will stay on a regular outlet.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/0000000031.jpg

Also...pretty much zero cyano today in the tank!

[Rbacchiega]

Love the way the stand worked out. And I like the white too! My vote is to keep it that way.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Love the way the stand worked out. And I like the white too! My vote is to keep it that way.

Yeah I think it is going to stay white...the room is black and white, so maybe the white stand and black trim of the tank will work nicely. We'll see. I will post pics this evening of the tank on the stand.

The final finish (whether white or black) will have a slight gloss. Would have preferred to have the panels all sprayed but just didn't have time really. I don't want to fill the tank until the stand is completely done inside and out. Should be the end of the weekend though.

Heres a question for you guys...

The floor slopes about 1/4" from the wall to the front of the tank. So it leans forward a 1/4". What would you use or how would you shim it? I have 1/4" plywood that would work but then not the entire frame of the stand will be sitting on the ground anymore since the front would be raised up and the back on the floor. The floor is exposed concrete if that makes any difference.

[Jason McK]

Looks Great. So.... It's 3:30 you should have had the thing filled with water by now???

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Looks Great. So.... It's 3:30 you should have had the thing filled with water by now???

Ha!

Not for a few days. I want to do all the plumbing and everything before filling this thing. Man it was heavy...Jack wasn't kidding when he said it was overbuilt! I think the double laminated bottom pane is the killer. Makes it about 3/4" thick.

The tank is in great shape though, I couldn't be happier.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/0000000035.jpg

[Jason McK]

That's a great size. So If you want to do all the plumbing first then what your saying is there will be water in it Tomorrow :)

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

That's a great size. So If you want to do all the plumbing first then what your saying is there will be water in it Tomorrow :)

J

Actually yes! Well, maybe...

The plumbing is as simple at taking the "herbie" drain from my old tank and then reducing it down 1/2" to fit this tanks bulkheads. Jack was nice enough to give me some of his plumbing for the tank. And the return pump is very simple to plumb, so...should be done tomorrow but we all know it never works that way ;)

I have to level the stand too. Not sure yet how I should make up the 1/4" it slopes forward.

Originally I wanted to actually paint the stand too before filling it but now that I have it, I doubt I can wait a few days to fill it up :D

[new but handy]

Hey.
how is the bottem of your stand built? Is it sheeted flat or are there 2x4's under it?

[Rbacchiega]

the black trim of the tank and the white of the stand are perfect.

[digital-audiophile]

Nice house!

Very chic with the concrete walls.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hey.
how is the bottem of your stand built? Is it sheeted flat or are there 2x4's under it?

Just 2x4's if I understand your question right. There is no plywood on the bottom of the stand. Just 2x4's right on the concrete floor. Do you have shim ideas?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

the black trim of the tank and the white of the stand are perfect.

Yeah I think so too ;)

Nice house!

Very chic with the concrete walls.

Yeah its a nice place. Very small condo but we fell in love with the building and this is all we could afford. We love it though! It actually doesn't seem that small because its all open space (no walls dividing rooms) and 14' ceilings. Kind of makes it feel big.

[new but handy]

How are you with a skill saw? you could cut shims 1/4" to nothing over the length of the bottem supports. 1 for each support. If you want to wait untill tues. I could do them for you. I work in Richmond.

[new but handy]

sorry you would need 1 across the front aswell

[lastlight]

Those drawer slides worked well for you I see =) How far does each door open? Stand looks killer in white I'd definitely leave it that way. I also think the light hardware should stay silver. Looks great as is!

As for the shimming I'm not too sure...

If you'd copied how I built the REST of my stand you'd see how it shimmed at the top =) Tagging along as I really like how this is coming together.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

How are you with a skill saw? you could cut shims 1/4" to nothing over the length of the bottem supports. 1 for each support. If you want to wait untill tues. I could do them for you. I work in Richmond.

I may take you up on this...

Not sure when I can make it out to Richmond but this is not something I can do myself.

Apparently my contractor step father also has an idea though...just that he is always SOOOOOO busy, so getting him to help may take forever :)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Those drawer slides worked well for you I see =) How far does each door open? Stand looks killer in white I'd definitely leave it that way. I also think the light hardware should stay silver. Looks great as is!

As for the shimming I'm not too sure...

If you'd copied how I built the REST of my stand you'd see how it shimmed at the top =) Tagging along as I really like how this is coming together.

Yes they did...thanks for the inspiration/idea!

They open a total of 48" but the doors also come right off easily. So for day to day stuff, just sliding them open works but if I needed to take them off for any reason, it not hard. I will post some pics tomorrow of how they look open.

Our tanks are very similar, so its kind of cool to see what your doing with yours :) I would love to have the external overflow like yours.

[spoot]

Holy crap Justin, that thing looks amazing! Nice work on the stand. Finish it with high gloss paint, that will make it really "shine" :D

[andestang]

Looks very nice indeed :mrgreen: The stand looks great. Did I read in another post that you may be headed back to the US :frown: ? That would be a shame.

[new but handy]

Hey I am actually coming down mon night. Then on tues I have to be at the airport for 1 ish. I will be staying in coquitlem mon night. If that is closer for you. Is your tank level left to right? Is it actually 1/4" out? How many 2x4s are under it? I could cut them up today and you could pick them up anytime. If that is the route you want to go. I have to tear apart my basement suite today anyway so I will have tools out.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Holy crap Justin, that thing looks amazing! Nice work on the stand. Finish it with high gloss paint, that will make it really "shine" :D

Thanks. I don't know if we are going with a high gloss but maybe just a slight gloss. Not sure yet.

Looks very nice indeed :mrgreen: The stand looks great. Did I read in another post that you may be headed back to the US :frown: ? That would be a shame.

Possibly. But not for at least a year and it would most likely be a few years from now. I really don't know but I am going to be doing everything I can to stay here and not have to go back. Not just because of the tank (although that will be a huge reason) but also because I just really prefer living in Canada :)

Hey I am actually coming down mon night. Then on tues I have to be at the airport for 1 ish. I will be staying in coquitlem mon night. If that is closer for you. Is your tank level left to right? Is it actually 1/4" out? How many 2x4s are under it? I could cut them up today and you could pick them up anytime. If that is the route you want to go. I have to tear apart my basement suite today anyway so I will have tools out.

OK, thanks for the offer...The problem is, I am so busy the next few days and I am not sure about how I would find a lot of time to get out there (I don't have a car anymore). I will have to see check today exactly where the tank is not level. I think its fine from right to left but its just the 1/4" from front to back.

I have shimmed tanks before with primed wood shims but its such a pain. I may end up doing that again here though, so I can do it myself when I get a chance (which would be today). I will let you know.

Thanks again for the offer though, its very kind of you :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So I checked again and the tank is actually not sloping forward like I thought. Its actually level when I place the level both in the tank on the bottom glass and on the top rim. When I had checked the stand, I had the level in the foam top and thought the stand or floor was sloping 1/4" from back to front. Not sure what to think of this.

The tank is about 1/8" off from right to left though, so I am just going to use the wood wedge type shims to deal with that. I figure they should be fine since its only 1/8".

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hey I am actually coming down mon night. Then on tues I have to be at the airport for 1 ish. I will be staying in coquitlem mon night. If that is closer for you. Is your tank level left to right? Is it actually 1/4" out? How many 2x4s are under it? I could cut them up today and you could pick them up anytime. If that is the route you want to go. I have to tear apart my basement suite today anyway so I will have tools out.

Thanks for the offer again but I should be fine. Have a great time in Mexico and have a margarita on the beach for me :razz:

[lastlight]

The external overflow is nice in a way but it also means the tank eats up an additional 6 inches of my livingroom. I was originally planning on a 36" wide tank but after we moved in I realized with the overflow in as well...well the wife would have started asking questions =)

[new but handy]

thanks I will! The shims will hold indefinetly. I shim up entire 6 plexes 2 or more inches in the air (to compensate for bad concrete finishers) The shims are fine. They compress quite a bit but you have to think of the weight of a 3 story 6 plex. After I build the building, crews come in and grout under the walls to permenently support it. (just because if I don't say it some one will make a comment:biggrin:)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

thanks I will! The shims will hold indefinetly. I shim up entire 6 plexes 2 or more inches in the air (to compensate for bad concrete finishers) The shims are fine. They compress quite a bit but you have to think of the weight of a 3 story 6 plex. After I build the building, crews come in and grout under the walls to permenently support it. (just because if I don't say it some one will make a comment:biggrin:)

Ok, thanks. That certainly makes me feel better about the whole thing. Since this is not a huge leveling job, I am going to use them.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The external overflow is nice in a way but it also means the tank eats up an additional 6 inches of my livingroom. I was originally planning on a 36" wide tank but after we moved in I realized with the overflow in as well...well the wife would have started asking questions =)

Yes...I actually never really thought of that.

One of the nice things about this tank is that it can be right up against the wall. Well about 3/4" from the wall because of the conduit for the light "arms".

[wisesam]

Hey Justin,
Where did you get the poles for the lights? I need something like that for my 45G cube.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hey Justin,
Where did you get the poles for the lights? I need something like that for my 45G cube.

Home Depot. Should be in the electrical section. Just ask for conduit piping and fittings. Make sur eyou get a pipe cutter too ;) Or you can borrow mine if you like. I think they are only about $12.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have decided to try an HQI ballast with my 400 watt 20K's instead of the regular ballast I have been using. Should burn the bulbs a bit whiter.

So I picked up the same ballast today (PFO dual 400 watts) but the HQI version. I will see if I am able to get good pictues of the difference when I get home.

Anyone else running 20K SE bulbs on an HQI ballast? I am curious to know what you think.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Haven't hooked up the new ballast yet to check the color difference but I have started the transfer :)

Just took the sump off line from the old tank and got it under the new stand. Then I was able to put in the vertical center support of the stand and start to fill the tank up. For now I have about 30G from the sump in the new tank and about 20G of new water. I also have added the "new" LR that I had been cycling for the past month. Tomorrow I am going to go ahead and move everything else over and hopefully get the sump hooked up. Might be Friday though before everything is running properly...I have a lot of work to catch up on :D

One thing I wasn't sure what to do with was the ZEO reactor. So I have it in a rubbermaid of tank water and a bit of LR. Its just turned on for now. Is this a good or bad idea? I figured I should keep it going to preserve the bacteria colonies in the rocks until I get it hooked back up in the new sump.

I won't be able to take pics for a few days except with my Camera Phone since my fiance is down in LA for work again and took the camera :(

On a side note though, she is doing the make up for a Calvin Klein shoot! I am very proud of her :D Its kind of the first real big time freelance job she has had outside of working on TV shows or movies.

:laluot_02:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

:bananalama:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

:Banane24: :Banane22:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

:focus:

Anyone know why the XM 20K bulbs are getting such LOW PAR ratings on Sanjays charts??? I was told they are one of the better 20K bulbs all around. Well them and the Radiums but after checking what they are putting out with my ballast (or any ballast on the list), I am finding them to be incredibly low. The Radiums would have been a much better choice :(

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Some room and tank shots from this morning. Lights don't come on until 3pm though :) The blue light is just temporary for the pics, so you could see something at least. Everything is done including sump and plumbing but I still don't quite have enough water made to run the sump yet :( I was able to test the system and had no problems but the sump still needs about 30 more gallons or so. Otherwise its loud and filled with micro bubbles. I will take some pics of the sump later today.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000001.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000004.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000005.jpg

Thats Home Depot you see across the street. The windows you can see in the home depot building are about 20' up and people are not able to look right into our place :) I was looking at this last picture and though it looks like we have a building across from us that look directly in...that would SUCK. Its just windows to bring light into Home Depot. Actually I think maybe those windows are for Home Sense or Winners...Hmmmm...either way people don't use them :D

[Rbacchiega]

Looking good! I LOVE your pad and furniture (that's right, I called it a pad). I might have missed it, but are you runnig zeo right from the get-go on this one?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Looking good! I LOVE your pad and furniture (that's right, I called it a pad). I might have missed it, but are you runnig zeo right from the get-go on this one?

Thanks!

Yes I am. But I guess since everything is already transfered over, I am still not starting from the beginning with ZEO. I would love to do a ZEO tank one day where I start from the cycle with it. It would be interesting to see how that would go.

I have ZERO cyano now (will take some shots soon as the lights come on) and will dose coral snow and lots of BAK right away this time. I am going to do my best to make sure I don't get cyano this time.

I have been reading on the ZEO forum about how NOT to get cyano and it seems that starting with the snow right away and going really easy on the ZEOstart works. Because I have also noticed that for most people running ZEO, its not easy to rid the tank of cyano after its started. I was able to do it a few weeks back with the old tank but I don't know if I would get that lucky again. One of the things that I think helped was that I stopped feeding greasy foods like mysis (which is apparently just like candy to the fish anyways). I just feed fresh clams, prawns, mussels, squid all blended together, as well as pellets and nori.

I do have to feed some mysis again though because I picked up a new copperband from a Canreef member that is eating mysis. I also have a new Orange spotted goby that only seems interested in mysis.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Not that much to see under the stand. Its a real mess of cords right now but here we go:

The doors slide on drawer sliders like I said earlier. Thanks Lastlight for this idea!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000007.jpg

The right side. Plumbing, skimmer, ZEO reactor...thats it.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000010.jpg

The left side. Ballast with fans, ATO can and my controller will be somewhere in that mess.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000011.jpg

The nicest thing about ZEO so far has been the lack of equipment :) I have only run ZEO a few months but its the best thing I have done for my tanks. Obviously it has helped the nutrient levels in the tank and colored up the corals nicely but as an added bonus, it eliminated so much equipment from my sump! Its nice not to have to worry about much.

[spoot]

Awesome work Justin! A lot cleaner than before! What size of vinyl tubing are you using? It looks pretty small. Just make sure it can handle your return flow.

What happened to your desk?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Awesome work Justin! A lot cleaner than before! What size of vinyl tubing are you using? It looks pretty small. Just make sure it can handle your return flow.

What happened to your desk?

Its 1", same as the output of the pump. Usually I have used 1.5" PVC with this pump but I couldn't find any vinyl bigger than 1". It was fine during the test, so I don't see why it would be a problem.

Maybe I should find bigger vinyl?

My desk is on the other side of the room now. I will put together a 360 degree view of the room once the lights come on.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Few pictures with the lights on. I would say about half the coral browned after the move :( Hopefully the color will come back with time and good water. Oh and ZEO of course...I know that will help get this thing looking good again!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000000000000-6.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000000000000-5.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000000000000-4.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Wow! Look how unlevel the stand is! Maybe I should fix that? (check the waterline)

[Rbacchiega]

uh yeah!

Thought you leveled it already?

EDIT: I was Joking, I knew that was a wave :bolt:

[Rbacchiega]

wait...is that the wave? Because if it is I want my above post deleted.

[jus68]

Wow! Look how unlevel the stand is! Maybe I should fix that? (check the waterline)

LOL, Justin, I actually gave you the benefit of doubt and thought that was just one hugh wave from your wavemaker... hahaha:mrgreen::mrgreen:

edit: forgot to say: SWEET SETUP!!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The newest additions.

First a Goby. Not named yet but I think we have narrowed it down to a few.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000000000000-3.jpg

And...A Copperband from a member here (Johncody). I wasn't going to try another until I found one that I was more certain was not cyanide caught but when he told me hes had it for a while and its eating well, I couldn't resist. It really is a healthy fish. Eats Nori even! Very friendly little guy. He was nipping my hand last night when I was moving things around in the tank :Banane09:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000000000000-2.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000000000000-1.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/00000000000000000000000000000000000.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hahaha....yeah its just a wave from the wavebox. Man that would suck if the best I could do with leveling the stand was that. Actually it would suck even more if my floors sloped that much!

I am getting about a 1.5" wave right now.

I actually got it up to about 2" but felt that was a little too big...yes I know how that sounds :Banane24:

[Delphinus]

Eats nori even! Wow, awesome!

And that's a freakish wave dude, serious wow, what can I say, man it looks awesome. Does the wave get any interference from the other powerheads?