"Lumenarc" Reflectors...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I am going to start this project tomorrow. DIY Lumenarc style reflectors. The ones I have seen on RC look pretty darn good and cheap! Well depending on what kind of aluminum you use.

What would you guys recommend for a highly reflective aluminum (over 85%) and where would you get it? People have been using Skylight tubing which is about 95% reflectivity but kind of pricey.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100007578

I saw someone else use just cheapo, aluminum and made a few reflectors for like $20 and then used that reflective "aluminum" tape...not sure what its actually called or used for but its in the duct area of HD. This worked but was not nearly as reflective as the proper aluminum. Apparently WAY better than even a good quality "U" shaped reflector though, so that says a lot about the design.

Here are some pics of the template (that I will print off and then take to Kinkos to get enlarged to 281%, which should make the 14" reflectors) and some finished products from RC members.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/Reflector14.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00217.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00728.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00731.jpg

Looks pretty darn good to me.

Any ideas for a good aluminum to use?

[saltwater-virgin]

Great idea... I did a search and found this http://anomet.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php.

[banditpowdercoat]

Ohh, following along with great interest

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Great idea... I did a search and found this http://anomet.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php.

Thanks this is actually some great stuff for a good price. Ontario though and I don't really want to have it shipped.

Or do they sell through other retailers?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I was looking at the 98% reflectivity stuff but they want $42 shipping! It is overnight though...

So it ends up being around $100 for a sheet that is 24x48...still may be worth it but I have no idea if this product would be good or not for this.

http://anomet.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php

[om6acw]

At the end its going to cost you same, maybe more, depends of how you are handy, just count reflective material (95% and more is pretty expensive 24x24" it's around $57) bulb socket, cables, rivets , tools if you dont have it you have to buy or rent + your time for fabrication, looking for material. If you stay in work for couple extra hours you can buy them, original with proper used material, each one exactly same..... so I dont think this is worth that much effort....

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

At the end its going to cost you same, maybe more, depends of how you are handy, just count reflective material (95% and more is pretty expensive 24x24" it's around $57) bulb socket, cables, rivets , tools if you dont have it you have to buy or rent + your time for fabrication, looking for material. If you stay in work for couple extra hours you can buy them, original with proper used material, each one exactly same..... so I dont think this is worth that much effort....

Not even close to the same price. I was about to pay $250 for two reflectors plus shipping. I just need the aluminum ($50) and some rivets. I have all the tools already (stepfather does) and I have the sockets and wiring. I am just making new reflectors to replace mine...maybe about $60-70 for two. Thats about $180-200 less.

Have you checked out the prices of the Lumenarc Minis??? $119 plus tax and shipping is the best I have seen but if you have seen better, please let me know!

[plutoniumJoe]

I was looking at the 98% reflectivity stuff but they want $42 shipping! It is overnight though...

So it ends up being around $100 for a sheet that is 24x48...still may be worth it but I have no idea if this product would be good or not for this.

http://anomet.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php

I would be interested in going in on an order and maybe we could split the shipping making it more cost effective.

- Joe

[om6acw]

when you need replace just reflectors this can be good home project but if you can get whole new lumenbright mini pendants for $120 I don't know...

[banditpowdercoat]

but how many can be built form a sheet????? I may be interested in enough for a 175W reflector. Want to try MH on my corner tank, but want to do it cheap for starters, see if I like it with the heat issue and such

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

when you need replace just reflectors this can be good home project but if you can get whole new lumenbright mini pendants for $120 I don't know...

True.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I would be interested in going in on an order and maybe we could split the shipping making it more cost effective.

- Joe

Ok, well I am going to look locally. There should be something around the city. I can't imagine Vancouver has NO reflective aluminum :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

but how many can be built form a sheet????? I may be interested in enough for a 175W reflector. Want to try MH on my corner tank, but want to do it cheap for starters, see if I like it with the heat issue and such

I think from that sheet I was looking at you can build at least three, maybe even four. I would have to double check though.

[KrazyKuch]

Each one takes up 21.5" X 21.5" so you could make 2 reflectors per sheet!!

[Chris_A]

Just a thought but maybe try some fabrication shops. I know I *could* get some mirror-polished aluminium through work but last time I looked into it the cost was... prohibative. Granted that was for 16ga and over a year ago though. Maybe try for some 20ga or lighter? One thing to keep in mind, at some point the price actually goes UP with thinner material.

There is also mirror polish stainless steel but again... not cheap. I'll double check what the technical name for that finish is and post so you can at least take a look at it.

Chris

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Just a thought but maybe try some fabrication shops. I know I *could* get some mirror-polished aluminium through work but last time I looked into it the cost was... prohibative. Granted that was for 16ga and over a year ago though. Maybe try for some 20ga or lighter? One thing to keep in mind, at some point the price actually goes UP with thinner material.

There is also mirror polish stainless steel but again... not cheap. I'll double check what the technical name for that finish is and post so you can at least take a look at it.

Chris

Yeah its looking like the really good stuff would make this project more expensive than buying the real thing. So I have to look at materials and see if there is a cheaper product that has a good reflection and hopefully is relatively thin. We'll see.

[Chris_A]

There is one material I had thought about that is relatively cheap... I just have no idea if it would be better, worse or no change at all. Aluminium Checker Plate, it comes polished, is readily available and you can get it pretty thin. I thought *maybe* the checkers would be something like a hammertone finish only better because they are polished. But they could also just scatter the light. I've never seen someone use it so if you want to be a guinea pig... ;)

Chris

[wickedfrags]

I purchased original lumanarcs about 3 years ago. One of the most difficult decisions I ever made as I already had light reflectors on my system (not a rich guy!). However, after buying these reflectors, well one of the best purchases/decisions I ever made in this hobby. These reflectors are work every penny!

[michika]

I purchased original lumanarcs about 3 years ago. One of the most difficult decisions I ever made as I already had light reflectors on my system (not a rich guy!). However, after buying these reflectors, well one of the best purchases/decisions I ever made in this hobby. These reflectors are work every penny!

I completely agree. These were one of the best purchases I've ever made for my tank.

I hope this works out for you, I think the idea is fantastic.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So there was one guy on RC that made his with regular duct aluminum (or whatever metal that is) and some of that reflective tape. He made the whole thing WITH socket and wiring for $30. Can't beat that and although its not as reflective as using proper reflective aluminum, it looks pretty darn good and would be better than most U reflectors anyways.

I may try this first since its so cheap.

[plutoniumJoe]

I have searched for Polished Aluminum in the Vancouver area. Talked to a few metal distributers that have sent me to others but in the end I have found nothing. I am very interested in ordering from Ontario if anyone is willing to split the shipping I would be up for it.

Joe.

[plutoniumJoe]

My question now is if it is better to go with the hammered finish or the smooth. There is a 3% difference in the reflectivity. But would it be a more natural light scatter. Right now I have simple U shape reflectors made from 24" by 12" aluminum sheets bought at Home Depot.

Not to hi-jack the thread but GSP you have me excited about this project also. I am looking at building a metal brake out of some angle iron to help with the forming.

[yeeg]

Not even close to the same price. I was about to pay $250 for two reflectors plus shipping. I just need the aluminum ($50) and some rivets. I have all the tools already (stepfather does) and I have the sockets and wiring. I am just making new reflectors to replace mine...maybe about $60-70 for two. Thats about $180-200 less.

Have you checked out the prices of the Lumenarc Minis??? $119 plus tax and shipping is the best I have seen but if you have seen better, please let me know!
whats your time worth? if its 10 bux an hour or less, then its worth your time to build it but if u normally make 25-50 bux an hour, I would think twice...But thats just my opinion.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

whats your time worth? if its 10 bux an hour or less, then its worth your time to build it but if u normally make 25-50 bux an hour, I would think twice...But thats just my opinion.

I make quite a bit more than that but I don't see the reasoning behind what my wage has to do with what I would be doing at home on my own time?

To be completely honest, I can afford to buy the Lumenarcs no problem but like the idea of saving money. The finished product some people are getting for half the price looks great.

Sorry, just don't see the link between my income and making a reflector :)

[fkshiu]

I think he means that what time and effort you put into this is time/effort that could have gone towards something else. In other words, is the money you save by DIYing worth the time and effort it takes to do so? This cost/benefit analysis goes into any DIY project.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I think he means that what time and effort you put into this is time/effort that could have gone towards something else. In other words, is the money you save by DIYing worth the time and effort it takes to do so? This cost/benefit analysis goes into any DIY project.

I figured that but to me that only applies if I were actually getting paid 24/7 and this was actually loosing me money:D

Otherwise all this is doing is taking away from...sitting in front of the TV, playing video games, maybe going to the bar, Canreef, I don't know...I waste all kinds of time ;)

I bet if I had kids, I would just buy them :smile:

I also hate ordering things from the states and having them shipped. I can't find the mini's in Canada so far and the bigger ones don't fit my canopy.


Man...so many people seem to think this is a waste of time!

[Chris_A]

Well I don't! :)

I'm very interested to see what you decide to do.

Also,
plutoniumJoe, I'd love to see what you do for the hand brake. I'm not exactly sure how you would make it so the brakes don't interfere with eachother but that said I haven't studied the drawings well or worked out the angles. I've actually thought about working up somthing like this only more elongated for my tank (20L with a 150 HQI) but I never seem to find the time at work. So if you have an idea with the hand brake I'd REALLY like to see it. :) Could do it at home then.

Chris

[Veng68]

They called me crazy for doing this:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13441&highlight=scan

But if you enjoy it.......... then the time is well spent.

Cheers,
Vic

[yeeg]

I figured that but to me that only applies if I were actually getting paid 24/7 and this was actually loosing me money:D

Otherwise all this is doing is taking away from...sitting in front of the TV, playing video games, maybe going to the bar, Canreef, I don't know...I waste all kinds of time ;)

I bet if I had kids, I would just buy them :smile:

I also hate ordering things from the states and having them shipped. I can't find the mini's in Canada so far and the bigger ones don't fit my canopy.


Man...so many people seem to think this is a waste of time!

I'm not saying its a waste of time, I was just wondering if it was worth your time...Dont get me wrong, I love to save money as well but if it a matter of being able to buy the product vs build it myself, I would consider all sides of the equation. I did however, plumb my tank and thought it was a lot of fun. But then again, I cant buy a plumbed tank but I could have hired omeone to do the job.

It is different for me as the more I work, the more I increase my future pay whereas someone with a salaried job will only see instant compensation in terms of overtime or other benefits.

[Delphinus]

It's only a waste of time if you think it is. I wouldn't make the reflectors myself, but I have 2 kids and not a whole lot of luck when it comes to making things come together and having them look good when all is said and done. But if I had access to the proper tools and materials and the desire, then I might. I DIY some things, I buy others. It's all about what you want to do and know what you can do and know what you probably can't do. I'll say this: now that I have Lumenarc reflectors in my possession, they are a lot chintzier than they look in pictures. Ie., they are just flimsy aluminum polished on one side, bent in a hundred places and then riveted together. I don't see any reason why one couldn't make their own provided they had access to a press and brake, and something to model it after. I say "press" because I think it would look like total crap if you used tin snips to cut the pieces. But the aluminum is so thin that you probably COULD use tin snips. I wouldn't have known how to make my own but now that I see them I bet I could make some if I had access to the proper tools.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Those ones in the first pics were made using tin snips and look great.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm not saying its a waste of time, I was just wondering if it was worth your time...Dont get me wrong, I love to save money as well but if it a matter of being able to buy the product vs build it myself, I would consider all sides of the equation. I did however, plumb my tank and thought it was a lot of fun. But then again, I cant buy a plumbed tank but I could have hired omeone to do the job.

It is different for me as the more I work, the more I increase my future pay whereas someone with a salaried job will only see instant compensation in terms of overtime or other benefits.

My job is the same. I work from home and the more work I do the more money I make. Generally I do a bit more than what I am expected but not much. I am not someone who can spend my whole life working :)

I just don't see my time as you see yours. I can't put a price on it. If I did think that way, there would be so many things I would never do.

[plutoniumJoe]

I enjoy the DIY projects and find them rewarding. Many times when it is all said and done even without a price tag on labour they may not be that finacially rewarding. I enjoy the problem solving and the tinkering. I have two kids and try to include them in the projects as much as possible. When things come together and they work I think it can be a valuable lesson in physics, biology, electricity, and even life. Even if I break even on a project I sometimes take solace in the fact that the quality of many of the components are better than those found in pre-assembled products.

[Delphinus]

Those ones in the first pics were made using tin snips and look great.

I only meant if *I* had to use tin snips it would look like cat barf. There's always a slight warp introduced into the aluminum everytime I squeeze down. Actually even the ones you pictured I can see that in it too, although it's pretty minor. I guess it's not reason in itself not to do the project but I was just saying if it was me, I'd prefer a press for the cuts over tin snips. It can't be THAT hard to find access to a press .. I bet most machine shops would be able to do it if you provided the metal and the measurements.. having said that it's not something I'd ever look into. For me, I wouldn't do this project but I actually meant I understand why you might want to do the project. It's all good.

[Chris_A]

Delphinus,
Do you mean, use snips then press the edge flat or use a shear? Just trying to clarify is all.

A shear would only be useful for the outside edges. Any cut outs would have to be done by hand and because of the design even a notcher would be of limited use. If one was really good they could be made with a zip disk, some kind of backer and deburring tool... but you'd have WAY more patience than I. ;) If it was a job at the shop, for sure! For home DIY... snips would be good enough for *me* :).

So far as getting a shop to do it, I don't know what going rate out there is but I get charged out at $95/hour for fab work... (and that's cheap, the shop down the road charges $120/h) Assuming the fab is a one of (or a small number anyway), a store bought one would look dirt cheap after that bill! ;) Honestly the only way I could see these being produced cheaply is by hand (diy) or mass production with a Punch Press. Lol! I seem to be fresh out of those... Anyone got one sitting in a corner of their garage? Maybe with the right die's sitting around too? ;) j/k

Chris

[banditpowdercoat]

whats your time worth? if its 10 bux an hour or less, then its worth your time to build it but if u normally make 25-50 bux an hour, I would think twice...But thats just my opinion.


Time is of the essence, but ius it really, when it comes to hobbies? SOme people, like me, acctually LIKE building things. I sometimes(alot of times through errors) end up paying MORE to build it myself. But, I got the satisfaction, and knowledge that you can't get from just opening up a box.


Like my Business slogan, "Because custom does not come in a box

[Delphinus]

$95 per hour huh. Ok tin snips it is!

[Chris_A]

$95 per hour huh. Ok tin snips it is!

Cheers! lol.

The worst part is I have access to the machines for home projects... I just never have the time to do them and I would have to punch out... At that point yes, yes my time is worth something... ;)

Chris

[Ya Dude]

Just make one, and let us know if it worth it.

[daddy01]

Hi,
Have you tried a HydroPonic(speling?) outlet I was told they might have sheets if reflective materials.
JIm

[fishytime]

Hi,
Have you tried a HydroPonic(speling?) outlet I was told they might have sheets if reflective materials.
JIm

You were told huh?...Uh-huh:mrgreen:

[daddy01]

Yes Fishttime I was told by a plastic shop where I went looking for reflective sheets plastic for a canopy idea I had. But I never followed though with it. Just my idea.

[foreverfortune]

Have you checked out the prices of the Lumenarc Minis??? $119 plus tax and shipping is the best I have seen but if you have seen better, please let me know!

sorry for digging this up but, where did you see the lumenarc lll minis for $119 was it the stealth ones? i'm actually looking for one. thanks

[banditpowdercoat]

bringing this thread back from the depths...... Going looking for Alum today. I know I can get regular alum, and just polish it... wonder how long the polish job would last?

[Marlin65]

You could clear coat it with powder.:wink: Somehow I think you might know someone who does powder coat.:biggrin:

[brizzo]

bringing this thread back from the depths...... Going looking for Alum today. I know I can get regular alum, and just polish it... wonder how long the polish job would last?

Check your local hydroponics store... Turns out a shop here in Kelowna manufactures their own reflectors, and was willing to sell me a 4x4' sheet of 98% reflector mirror finish aluminum for $90 :mrgreen:

[RCFA]

Not that this would be completely practical but what about using actual glass mirror? I know I have a bunch of old mirrors sitting around that could easily be cut up. You could arrange the pieces at different angles by gluing to wood supports or something. what is the reflectivity index of actual mirrors?

[brizzo]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason you can't uses mirrors is because it will create hot spots. Similar to using a magnifying glass and the sun :lol:

[mike31154]

I've read that mirrors are not an efficient reflective material for lighting. The light needs to pass through the glass to get to the reflective material behind the glass, bounce off and then pass through the glass a second time. Apparently a lot of light is lost in this transition.

[RCFA]

I've read that mirrors are not an efficient reflective material for lighting. The light needs to pass through the glass to get to the reflective material behind the glass, bounce off and then pass through the glass a second time. Apparently a lot of light is lost in this transition.

Makes sense, similar losses to putting 2 sheets of thin glass on top of your tank.