To the puffer experts out there...

[my2rotties]

You all know I have a very large and happy porcupine puffer named Gryphon. He is about 8" long and gets along with all my fish, that he can't fit into his mouth. No fish bothers with him, and I added a dogfaced puffer, and he pays no mind to the little fellow.

There is a member desperate to find a home for her foxface and porkie. I am adopting the foxface, but she still needs a good home for the puffer...

When I bought Gryphon he was houseed with smaller puffers just like this fellow member's. This new puffer is smaller then Gryphon by a decent chunk but is not tiny.My dogface is really little and there are no issues with bullying or chasing between him and Gryphon. I feed home made puffer chow and everybody is happy with lots of ample space and cave to hide and play in.

Is it worth trying to bring this other puffer home? Gryphon is my boy, and he eats before anybody else and I put the dogfaced puffer's food on the other side of the tank while Gryphon pigs out. I know I could provide this new guy a more then awesome home, and would love to give it a try...

Any opinions or worries. If worse came to worse I would find the perfect home for the new puffer, which the other member would have to approve. Puffers are my favorite fish, and I know I can give them what they need space and diet wise.

I Pmed the member about this, but am posting to find out if this is worth a try or not. Thanks in advance.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Not worth a try at all, IMO. You have things working well now and adding another porc could just mess everything up so quickly. I would say 99% of the time one ends up dead eventually. It can take years but it always seems to happen. They just do not get along once both are adults. It often works when they are small (especially when one is much smaller than the other) but once they get close to the same size, they get territorial. I have unfortunately tried it :(

Please don't take this the wrong way but I would say for some people it may be worth a try but knowing you and how much you LOVE these fish, I would not do it. Its just too much of an experiment...especially long term. I think if your tank was a big bigger, it may work but a 280 is pushing it.

One of the worst parts about porcs fighting each other is that they seem to go for the eyes first :( At least mine did...you can imagine how messy that was. They were together for about a year before the real fighting began. But that was also only a 180, so obviously way too small for two adult porcs.

The one way it can work is the same way some people keep many angels or tangs together and that is to severely overstock the tank and never allow the fish to claim territories. I guess if you had like 50 fish in your tank, the puffers would probably leave each other alone but tanks like that are so horrible IMO. All your doing is keeping the fish stressed 100% of the time so that they don't single other ones out.

And I know you would never do that ;)

[my2rotties]

I should have just Pmed you... I don't know any other puffer expert on here. I recall you mentioned certain puffers could not be kept together. I was hoping it was not the porkies. I would never try to keep things together without asking first... I learned the hard way with Gryphon.

Thanks for the info, it would not even be considered now. I figured I would see if was an option. I wish I could have helped this canreefer out.:sad:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I should have just Pmed you... I don't know any other puffer expert on here. I recall you mentioned certain puffers could not be kept together. I was hoping it was not the porkies. I would never try to keep things together without asking first... I learned the hard way with Gryphon.

Thanks for the info, it would not even be considered now. I figured I would see if was an option. I wish I could have helped this canreefer out.:sad:

There are very few times multiples of the same species will work in an aquarium long term. You will hear people say all the time "We'll my guys have been fine together..." but usually they are either still very young or there is a big enough size difference to make it ok, for a while. But long term (over a few years), its just a bad idea.

[my2rotties]

Yes, and you know I plan on keeping everybody long term. When I brought Griff home I had problems that we because my lack of knowledge. It was a bumpy start, but I would never even consider bringing my big boy back or selling him. He's more work then I expected, but worth all the work I put into him. I tried feeding him for company to behold his "eating habits" and of course he did not perform for them. I guess that means he must really like my hubby and I:wink:.

Ickie is doing great and she knows just to wait for Griff to eat. There is always carnage and all the fish gobble up the bits and pieces. You were right about the dogfaces, they are very shy and don't get in anyone's way. Ickie does not go to the bottom of the tank and submit though, she just waits for the right time to nab her food. She is still getting used to me and I know she will eat from my hands soon... if Griff doesn't come swipe it first.


I'm sad I can't help out with the puffer, I really wanted to give him a nice home. His owner really loves him, and wants no hard to come to him either. It's sad I couldn't help out.
I really have no idea of how much that guy could eat...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yes, and you know I plan on keeping everybody long term. When I brought Griff home I had problems that we because my lack of knowledge. It was a bumpy start, but I would never even consider bringing my big boy back or selling him. He's more work then I expected, but worth all the work I put into him. I tried feeding him for company to behold his "eating habits" and of course he did not perform for them. I guess that means he must really like my hubby and I:wink:.

Ickie is doing great and she knows just to wait for Griff to eat. There is always carnage and all the fish gobble up the bits and pieces. You were right about the dogfaces, they are very shy and don't get in anyone's way. Ickie does not go to the bottom of the tank and submit though, she just waits for the right time to nab her food. She is still getting used to me and I know she will eat from my hands soon... if Griff doesn't come swipe it first.


I'm sad I can't help out with the puffer, I really wanted to give him a nice home. His owner really loves him, and wants no hard to come to him either. It's sad I couldn't help out.
I really have no idea of how much that guy could eat...

You have a good thing going there...

Sounds like a typical Dogface. They can don't completely back down or submit but they certainly do stay away from "trouble" and don't usually start things with other fish. Porcs are quite different usually.

[bulletsworld]

Hey Diane,

Yes, I agree Porcupine puffers DO NOT get along with the same kind. It would never be worth the risk. Porcupine puffers get really territorial with their kind. If you see a few little guys together at a LFS you will always see the smaller one gets picked on. This happens the same for Boxfish (which I love them to)

Simon my Porcupine puffer has attacked a smaller porcupine puffer before. I'll never try it again. He was good with any other puffer though. He was with both a dogface and a star stripe puffer and he's was always docile. He eats lots too! I feed him stomotellia snails, live hitcher crabs, hermit crabs (on occasion), live snails and Krill.

I am not in a big hurry to find my Simon a home. the tank is all his. I just want to make sure he's got a perfect home, thats why I'm being selective. I honestly wouldn't put Simon through the travel there either, way too stressful for him. I appreciate you trying to help out though. I know if you didn't have your puffy you make a great home for my Simon.

See you soon with the Foxface. :mrgreen:

[chevyjaxon]

how big of a tank does a puffer need? i have a 50 gallon plumbed into my 90 gallon through my sump my 90 is a mixed reef with tangs my 50 only has cheato in it maybe i could give simon a home? that is of course if 50 gallons is a big enough tank and he could have it all to himself

[my2rotties]

I'm really sorry I could not take Simon... I figured I would ask to see if it would work. I would have paid for him too.

Who knew porkies could be so mean. I was surprised when GSP said they go after each other's eyes. My guy pays no attention to anybody. He seems like such an easy going happy go lucky guy. Mind you many fish cannot be kept with their own kind and yet when they're alone they are sweeties.

I know you will find Simon a good home. I know he means a lot to you, and you have had him for so long... I've had my Mandarine for over a year and he is one of my favorites since he is still thriving with all the mistakes I made at the start.

Take your time with the Foxface, you know the tank is waiting.

Hey Diane,

Yes, I agree Porcupine puffers DO NOT get along with the same kind. It would never be worth the risk. Porcupine puffers get really territorial with their kind. If you see a few little guys together at a LFS you will always see the smaller one gets picked on. This happens the same for Boxfish (which I love them to)

Simon my Porcupine puffer has attacked a smaller porcupine puffer before. I'll never try it again. He was good with any other puffer though. He was with both a dogface and a star stripe puffer and he's was always docile. He eats lots too! I feed him stomotellia snails, live hitcher crabs, hermit crabs (on occasion), live snails and Krill.

I am not in a big hurry to find my Simon a home. the tank is all his. I just want to make sure he's got a perfect home, thats why I'm being selective. I honestly wouldn't put Simon through the travel there either, way too stressful for him. I appreciate you trying to help out though. I know if you didn't have your puffy you make a great home for my Simon.

See you soon with the Foxface. :mrgreen:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

how big of a tank does a puffer need? i have a 50 gallon plumbed into my 90 gallon through my sump my 90 is a mixed reef with tangs my 50 only has cheato in it maybe i could give simon a home? that is of course if 50 gallons is a big enough tank and he could have it all to himself

Add at least another 100G to that 50G and it might work. Eventually they should be in a 180 minimum.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm really sorry I could not take Simon... I figured I would ask to see if it would work. I would have paid for him too.

Who knew porkies could be so mean. I was surprised when GSP said they go after each other's eyes. My guy pays no attention to anybody. He seems like such an easy going happy go lucky guy. Mind you many fish cannot be kept with their own kind and yet when they're alone they are sweeties.

I know you will find Simon a good home. I know he means a lot to you, and you have had him for so long... I've had my Mandarine for over a year and he is one of my favorites since he is still thriving with all the mistakes I made at the start.

Take your time with the Foxface, you know the tank is waiting.

I have seen schools of porcs while diving in the Caribbean. In Australia we even saw pairs of them swimming together all over the place. They get along fine in the ocean (like tangs or most fish) but not in aquariums...not long term anyways. You will hear of people saying its fine but usually they have not had them together long (under a few years) or as I said, one is small. It will work until that small one gets big. They are not like tangs where you will usually know right away if they are going to fight or not. They can be together for a while and then just snap one day. Almost always happens.

This is the only pic I could find but these two swam together on this entire dive. They stayed in our area the whole time too, it was very cool!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/IMG_2301copy.jpg

[my2rotties]

How big were these guys GSP? They look huge. Perhaps they were a mated pair, who knows? I don't know how fish work for mating and the likes. It must be awesome to see them in the wild like this. I hope that sopmeday I can go diving, but I don't know who will care for my fish.

[my2rotties]

I also have to ask about your porkies fighting... Did one eventually die. You mentioned going after the eyes, was there severe damage? Did they chase each other? Was one submissive to the other, and wanted nothing to do with the beatings?

I just want to ask for the next person that might be in this situation. I honestly would have never guessed they would end up like this, since they are so self absorbed, they don't seem to care about anybody else, but their bellies. I cannot keep up to his eating demands, let me tell you. I think my dogs eat less then him...

Also I forgot how big Griff will get someday, since he is about 8" long now? I will ALWAYS have him and give him the best that I can. My other fish love it when he eats his frozen home made puffer chow, since they clean up the carnage. They keep their distance, and nobdy messes with him at all. I also noticed the same when Ickie came home. She's a ting dogface but my Emperor was on the warpath with all the other new fish but not her.

She lives in the big monti cap I bought and loves this sleeping spot... She nestles right into the corner in a safe and happy place. I love the nature of the dogfaced puffers and she is becoming my favorite.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I also have to ask about your porkies fighting... Did one eventually die. You mentioned going after the eyes, was there severe damage? Did they chase each other? Was one submissive to the other, and wanted nothing to do with the beatings?

I just want to ask for the next person that might be in this situation. I honestly would have never guessed they would end up like this, since they are so self absorbed, they don't seem to care about anybody else, but their bellies. I cannot keep up to his eating demands, let me tell you. I think my dogs eat less then him...

Also I forgot how big Griff will get someday, since he is about 8" long now? I will ALWAYS have him and give him the best that I can. My other fish love it when he eats his frozen home made puffer chow, since they clean up the carnage. They keep their distance, and nobdy messes with him at all. I also noticed the same when Ickie came home. She's a ting dogface but my Emperor was on the warpath with all the other new fish but not her.

She lives in the big monti cap I bought and loves this sleeping spot... She nestles right into the corner in a safe and happy place. I love the nature of the dogfaced puffers and she is becoming my favorite.

Those guys are a different species of Porcupine Puffer and were about 18" or more long and about 8" or more wide. Massive.

The porcs I tried together years ago were fine for about a year and a half. One was much smaller than the other but as it grew and caught up to the other, I started to see problems. A bit of nipping at feeding time, a bit of territory disputes until one day they both snapped and it was all out war! They went for each others eyes...one lost an eye and eventually was put down. Even the one that won the battle was pretty messed up. It was pretty bad...a year and a half of peace and then within two days, one was dead and the other badly injured. He ended up dying a few months later. That was in a 180.

Here is a video if two "fighting" in the ocean. Not to bad of a fight and almost comical but you get the idea. They don't bite in the video but mine were doing this. You can imagine if they were squaring off like this and then one hits the glass and has nowhere to go, they will start biting. In this vid they don't really attack because they have lots of room to move around. In a huge tank they may not bite as much as mine did either...but I mean huge.

http://www.oceanfootage.com/oceans/search?screen=search&savesearch=1&keyword_sorter=cat&cat_keyword_sorter=and&keywords=porcupine+puffers+fight&Go=Go

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Here is an idea of size and why a 50G is not suitable :) (first vid)

http://www.oceanfootage.com/oceans/search?screen=search&savesearch=1&keyword_sorter=cat&cat_keyword_sorter=and&keywords=Brown+Chromis+In+Current&Go=Go

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Your dogface is beautiful...Here is a big one I saw in Australia...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/IMG_1615copy.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Mating Puffers :D

http://www.oceanfootage.com/oceans/search?screen=search&savesearch=1&keyword_sorter=cat&cat_keyword_sorter=and&keywords=Guinea+Fowl+Puffer+Courtship&Go=Go


BTW, someone once was asking for proof that Guinea Fowl Puffers are Golden in their younger years and then switch to black and white again as adults...If this isn't proof, I don't know what is! These are breeding adults and certainly black and white. I don't remember if it was here or RC but I was saying the Goldens are very young still and people disagreed, saying they get Golden as adults. Not true. You are not going to find a Golden stage adult Guinea Fowl Puffer in the ocean...well I would assume some never change all the way but most will be black and white.

EDIT: of course after saying that I see down near the bottom there is a video of a bunch of adults swimming together and one is mostly still golden :) So there is always an exception ;) Pretty amazing to see all these guys swimming together.

[chevyjaxon]

well i feel silly you are right i wouldnt want to put a fish that size in a 50:wink:

[my2rotties]

Those are amazing videos, and pics Justin. As usual you are the puffer God... To see these guys in the wild must be so amazing. Thanks for all your knowledge, I never knew that much about puffers until I met you...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

well i feel silly you are right i wouldnt want to put a fish that size in a 50:wink:

Oh no please don't feel silly :) I never meant to make you feel silly...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Those are amazing videos, and pics Justin. As usual you are the puffer God... To see these guys in the wild must be so amazing. Thanks for all your knowledge, I never knew that much about puffers until I met you...

Yup they are. The amazing thing about them in the wild is that they take a real interest in people. I have found Puffers and groupers tend to like to check people out. Puffers will come quite close. We all know them to be such curious little guys and they are no different in the ocean, especially the young ones.

Although I have found that Dogface Puffers are not quite so bold. They tend to watch you but from behind a rock.

[my2rotties]

They are probably checking us out to see if we will fit into their mouths. :mrgreen:

Yup they are. The amazing thing about them in the wild is that they take a real interest in people. I have found Puffers and groupers tend to like to check people out. Puffers will come quite close. We all know them to be such curious little guys and they are no different in the ocean, especially the young ones.

Although I have found that Dogface Puffers are not quite so bold. They tend to watch you but from behind a rock.

[moldrik]

GSP, I was just going to say that I came back from travelling around Mexico and Belize and when I was diving off of Puerto Vallarta I saw a school of porcupine puffers. It was quite incredible to see so many of them sticking together. It's amazing to see how differently they behave in the wild compared to an aquarium.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

GSP, I was just going to say that I came back from travelling around Mexico and Belize and when I was diving off of Puerto Vallarta I saw a school of porcupine puffers. It was quite incredible to see so many of them sticking together. It's amazing to see how differently they behave in the wild compared to an aquarium.

Yeah it is quite amazing!

Its all about space. They don't see each other as a threat in the large open ocean but in tanks they just don't have enough room to share with each other. Same as tangs or angels. The problem is when puffers fight, it gets messy very fast.