Funny how car maintenance works

[fishoholic]

So my jeep hit 50,000km and regular maintenance needs to be done. So my 1st quote over the phone was $500-$600 then when I took it in I got quoted $800. Well they just called me and said it would be $1200.00 :eek: :evil: How I went from double the price I was first quoted for the same work I'll never know :sad: I know the work had to be done but still.....:question: Thankfully I have visa. I should mention that it's not a joe blow maintenance shop taking me for a ride, it's the Londonderry doge/jeep dealership.

[banditpowdercoat]

Gotta watch out for Dealerships too. I do all my maintenance myself. Only take to Dealer for warranty work. Last time I took it to Dodge for warranty. Transmission cooler line was leaking. They changed my engine oil WITHOUT asking me, then tried to bill me. Putting regular oil in, not fully synthetic Royal Purple that I run in all my vehicles. Boy was I mad. Made them change it again, with the oil I use, and I never paid for either change. Allways have to make sure they ask you beforehand on work to be done. and NEVER leave a vehicle with saying, "Whatever needs to be done, just go ahead and do it" It's a open invitation to your wallet.

[Rbacchiega]

+1 to dan's post about dealerships. That's why I love my brother...well not the ONLY reason why, but it sure helps. He's a mechanic so all I do is pay for the parts and buy him a case of beer. Makes a 500 dollar job into a 150 dollar job LOL

[reefermadness]

Chrysler needs some extra dough right now, don't they??

In all seriousness they must have done more then the regular maintenance if the price went up??

[chevyjaxon]

dealerships suck i took my car to ford for a tune up (no time to diy) told them to change the oil now my car is 250 000 plus kilometers old so what do they do? put in 5w30 instead of 10w30 well when i got my car back it was burning oil like crazy all they told me was that was the ford approved viscosity for that V8 geez the car never burned oil before that so later that day i spent the money bought new oil (10w30) and did another oil change myself end result 100 dollars to ford for nothing and another 40 bucks to fix their mistake:bad-word:

[fishoholic]

Gotta watch out for Dealerships too. I do all my maintenance myself. Only take to Dealer for warranty work. Last time I took it to Dodge for warranty. Transmission cooler line was leaking. They changed my engine oil WITHOUT asking me, then tried to bill me. Putting regular oil in, not fully synthetic Royal Purple that I run in all my vehicles. Boy was I mad. Made them change it again, with the oil I use, and I never paid for either change. Allways have to make sure they ask you beforehand on work to be done. and NEVER leave a vehicle with saying, "Whatever needs to be done, just go ahead and do it" It's a open invitation to your wallet.

They did phone to tell me how much it was actually going to cost to do what needed to be done before they did it.

These are the 4 things that need to be done: Transmission flush, spark plugs, pcv valve, and transfer case.

For this work I was 1st quoted that it'll cost about $600 (on the phone she did say something about the transfer case and something about if the pcv valve needs replacing it'll be more) then when I dropped it off for the work to be done they told me that to get those 4 things done it will be more like $800. Then they called me around 1pm and told me that yes the pcv valve needs replacing and so does the transfer case and since it's a 4x4 and because I use synthetic oil etc. it will cost $1200, and was it ok for them to go ahead and finish the work. All I know is that I needed to get those 4 things done and that those four things cost me a lot more then what I was expecting them too. I told them to go ahead because the work has to be done. Hopefully that quote was with taxes and that's the difference between the $800 to the $1200 but I don't know. Heck I don't even know what a pcv valve or a transfer case is! All I know is that they are being replaced.

I don't mind paying to get the work I need done, I just wish I knew if that is a fair price for that work or not. Any mechanic's out there that know?

BTW I'll let everyone know what the grand total is today after I pay for the work and pick my jeep up.

[StirCrazy]

For this work I was 1st quoted that it'll cost about $600 then when I dropped it off for the work to be done they told me that to get those 4 things done it will be more like $800. Then they called me around 1pm and told me that since it's a 4x4 and because I use synthetic oil etc. it will cost $1200. Hopefully that quote was with taxes and that's the difference between the $800 to the $1200 but I don't know.



I would call them and tell them to leave the car alone and go get it, that is a blatent rip off if they didn't find more work. a 4X4 means you have transfer case and front dif as well as the back, that should be about 60 to 100 bucks in synthetic oil, and the difference in the oil change is about 60 bucks. transmition flush and fill could be about 250.00 and spark plugs should be 150ish to 200.00. I would tell them if they can't stay to the original quote of 600.00 to forget it and take it to Canadian tire for the spark plug change (or do it your self) and then go to a quick lub for the rest.

Steve

[fdiddy]

I thought everything was based on a governed amount of hours for each fix. The price should not have jumped like that. It should be easy to quote. Look at the sheet... follow the line to transfer case... 8.5 hours (I have no idea, this is an example)... 65 dollars an hour (Once again... no idea.)... there - quote. Sounds like when they quoted you over the phone they didn't have enough info to quote you correctly.

[Myka]

At only 50,000 kms I can't even imagine what maintenance would cost $1200?!! I hope they gave you a list of what they did...what did they do?

[fishoholic]

I would call them and tell them to leave the car alone and go get it, that is a blatent rip off if they didn't find more work. a 4X4 means you have transfer case and front dif as well as the back, that should be about 60 to 100 bucks in synthetic oil, and the difference in the oil change is about 60 bucks. transmition flush and fill could be about 250.00 and spark plugs should be 150ish to 200.00. I would tell them if they can't stay to the original quote of 600.00 to forget it and take it to Canadian tire for the spark plug change (or do it your self) and then go to a quick lub for the rest.

Steve

Too late now :redface: The work should be almost finished by now. I thought it would be better to get it done at the dealership because then the work would be done right, but now I'm thinking I should of phoned around for some quotes. :sad:

[fishoholic]

At only 50,000 kms I can't even imagine what maintenance would cost $1200?!! I hope they gave you a list of what they did...what did they do?

Transmission flush, spark plugs, pcv valve, and transfer case. As far as I'm aware that's it. When I pick it up if there is anything else I'll fill you in.

[banditpowdercoat]

They did phone to tell me how much it was actually going to cost to do what needed to be done before they did it.

These are the 4 things that need to be done: Transmission flush, spark plugs, pcv valve, and transfer case.

For this work I was 1st quoted that it'll cost about $600 (on the phone she did say something about the transfer case and something about if the pcv valve needs replacing it'll be more) then when I dropped it off for the work to be done they told me that to get those 4 things done it will be more like $800. Then they called me around 1pm and told me that yes the pcv valve needs replacing and so does the transfer case and since it's a 4x4 and because I use synthetic oil etc. it will cost $1200, and was it ok for them to go ahead and finish the work. All I know is that I needed to get those 4 things done and that those four things cost me a lot more then what I was expecting them too. I told them to go ahead because the work has to be done. Hopefully that quote was with taxes and that's the difference between the $800 to the $1200 but I don't know. Heck I don't even know what a pcv valve or a transfer case is! All I know is that they are being replaced.

I don't mind paying to get the work I need done, I just wish I knew if that is a fair price for that work or not. Any mechanic's out there that know?

BTW I'll let everyone know what the grand total is today after I pay for the work and pick my jeep up.

No, no call. They did a service, thinking it was in for a service allong with the leaky radiator fitting. I do all my own services. They didnt like that LOL. Just means they dont get to charge me. I Keep all my reciepts for the fluids I purchase. And ALL my fluieds greatly exceed Dodge's reccomendations, so they cant say I use inferior products.

[fishoholic]

So the grad total with tax is $1280.97 :crazyeye: Other then labor the stupid transfer case was the cause of most of the cost :evil: So here's the breakdown:

For labor & parts;
Minor tune up and spark plugs- $249.99
Transfer case SVC- $519.99
Transmission service- $183.51
PCV valve- $96.00
MISC (environ fee & shop fees)- $34.00
Tax- $61.00

On the last page it's broken down as:

:evil: Labor $732.96!!!!!! :eek: (boy am I in the wrong field)
Parts $453.01
MISC $34.00
Tax $61.00
Total $1280.97 *YUCK!*

[mark]

The transmission flush is one of the biggest scams but more common at drive-thru lubes. Hope for you they dropped the pan and changed the filter and filled with new oil.

What was the problem with the transfer case?

[balistidae]

do you have any details on that tcase service? I am licensed Toyota tech and we sure dont have any 500 dollar tcase "services". At that mileage i would only expect a drain and fill which shouldnt cost more than 100

[tgoeujon]

just curious but what happened to warranty? 50,000 should be covered for anything other than regular servicing. pcv shouldnt be regular servicing and unless they were changing gears and bearing on your transfer case, which also should be warranty you just got f@#$ed by the shop. im a licensed mechanic and a really big transfer case only holds four litres of oil and takes at most 1 hour to service.
what kind of vehicle was it?

[banditpowdercoat]

The transmission flush is one of the biggest scams but more common at drive-thru lubes. Hope for you they dropped the pan and changed the filter and filled with new oil.

What was the problem with the transfer case?

yup, only TRUE way to replace all the tranny oil and do a service is drop pan, replace filter. THEN do a flush. just droping the pan only drains a portion of the oil. does not drain the torque converter, or whats in the passages etc.


If they charged you that much to change oil in transfer case, thats a RIPOFF. Transfercases take approx 2.3L of ATF. and are as easy and quick as engine oil to change

[tgoeujon]

sorry dan but its not always ATF anymore lol, and if toyota doesnt have a 500 dollar t case service no one does lol j/k

[hillegom]

I hate dealerships. When I get a new vehicle I also buy a workshop manual. After warranty, I read the book and figure it out myself.

[banditpowdercoat]

sorry dan but its not always ATF anymore lol, and if toyota doesnt have a 500 dollar t case service no one does lol j/k


LOL, What, are they back to gear oil again??? LOL Anyways, she's got a Jeep, and should be like my dakota, ATF. I just get soo steemed when shops try to screw people. Especially Women, cause they think they can get away with it.....


BTW, side note, think Im going to WL tomorrow, get some stuff from Ian, and Sydney's tank. Anything you want, PM me.

Hillgom, nowhere does it ever state that during warranty period, services and maintenance needs to be performed at a dealer, or a shop for that matter. I do all my own Fix it's and such, if I broke a part through 'abnormal use" LOL. I 4 wheel sometimes. BUT,, If it's a warranty issue, for sure I let them know. Sometimes I get them to order me the parts, and I do the work myself. Like my washer squirters stoped working. I got the parts, told them it was warranty and I am not making an appt, and wasting a day for a 20 min fix I can do in my driveway

[fishoholic]

do you have any details on that tcase service? I am licensed Toyota tech and we sure dont have any 500 dollar tcase "services". At that mileage i would only expect a drain and fill which shouldnt cost more than 100

This is what the bill says

Transfer case svc. tech(s):3811 $371.54

Complaint: Check transfer case fluid; advise if service is required
Use sythetic oil if required; advise if full 4x4 service required
Do not perform before advising please (which they did)

Cause: Dirty driveline fluids

Correction: Performed 4x4 service, used synthetic fluids

Description
Sealer 01-081-003 $6.94
75W140 01-081-020 $110.37
Lube 01-081-090 $31.14
Multipurp 01-081-02 Internal

Total labor and parts $519.99

Any ideas as to what it all means? Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. I thought maybe they replaced the transfer case, and I was under the impression that whatever they did it needed to be done at 50,000km.

[tgoeujon]

kinda curious how much they charge a litre for the 75w140. at the 2 to 3 litres your case hold thats kinda ouchie

[fishoholic]

just curious but what happened to warranty? 50,000 should be covered for anything other than regular servicing. pcv shouldnt be regular servicing and unless they were changing gears and bearing on your transfer case, which also should be warranty you just got f@#$ed by the shop. im a licensed mechanic and a really big transfer case only holds four litres of oil and takes at most 1 hour to service.
what kind of vehicle was it?

No one I know does mechanic work or knows much about it unfortunately. I did ask if any of it was covered under my warranty (my 5 years is up July 2009) but they told me no. My jeep is a 2004 liberty.

[fishoholic]

kinda curious how much they charge a litre for the 75w140. at the 2 to 3 litres your case hold thats kinda ouchie

Under the 75W140 line it first says (under unit price) $36.79 and right beside that they list $110.37

[Reefhawk1]

The major problem with new vehicles these days is the dealerships scam you. They tell you you need this service or warranty is void. My Nissan was to have a complete service at 48000 kms and the cost was $800 plus tax. Included was a transmission flush in cab air filter,coolant flush and a general mechanical inspection. At 50k a coolant flush is a waste of money. I did the transmission service (oil was dirty) and blew the clean filter out.

In general all work at a dealership is a rip off. From parts mark up to the 100-120 dollars an hour labour. I am a Commercial transport mechanic and I see all the mark up on parts. It is a joke.

Changing the oil in the transfer case is a good idea since you probably use 4 wheel drive on a regular basis in Edmonton. Next time ask for all the original parts including a sample of the oil if you think you are being ripped off.

[tgoeujon]

if warranty isnt covering anything you might want to think about changing shops. what is the hourly rate there out of curiousity?

[banditpowdercoat]

This is what the bill says

Transfer case svc. tech(s):3811 $371.54

Complaint: Check transfer case fluid; advise if service is required
Use sythetic oil if required; advise if full 4x4 service required
Do not perform before advising please (which they did)

Cause: Dirty driveline fluids

Correction: Performed 4x4 service, used synthetic fluids

Description
Sealer 01-081-003 $6.94
75W140 01-081-020 $110.37
Lube 01-081-090 $31.14
Multipurp 01-081-02 Internal

Total labor and parts $519.99

Any ideas as to what it all means? Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. I thought maybe they replaced the transfer case, and I was under the impression that whatever they did it needed to be done at 50,000km.

HOLLY CRAP !!!!!! A good Synthetic 75w140 should be $12-16 If I remeber correctly. Thats outrageous. And they charged $371 for labour. Holly crap. How slow was that Mechanic???
Did I say Holly Crap???

[tgoeujon]

i dont like to argue but the coolant flush is important even at low kms. especially on chevys, the pink coolant causes electrolysis really quickly and can cost alot of money in repairs if not flushed fairly often.

[banditpowdercoat]

Trevor, by her list, All that was done was routine fluid changes. No warrranty work. SHe DEFFINATELY needs to find a different shop. Thats over Double what it should cost.

And I hate the Dexcool andtfreeze. I think It's Junk. Go Green. Just change it all at once and all is OK

[fishoholic]

The major problem with new vehicles these days is the dealerships scam you. They tell you you need this service or warranty is void. My Nissan was to have a complete service at 48000 kms and the cost was $800 plus tax. Included was a transmission flush in cab air filter,coolant flush and a general mechanical inspection. At 50k a coolant flush is a waste of money. I did the transmission service (oil was dirty) and blew the clean filter out.

In general all work at a dealership is a rip off. From parts mark up to the 100-120 dollars an hour labour. I am a Commercial transport mechanic and I see all the mark up on parts. It is a joke.

Changing the oil in the transfer case is a good idea since you probably use 4 wheel drive on a regular basis in Edmonton. Next time ask for all the original parts including a sample of the oil if you think you are being ripped off.

Basically as soon as the snow hits the ground and until the snow is gone I keep it in 4x4.

I think they did the work they said they did, I just didn't think that the work was going to cost so much. $732.96 in labor alone *ouch* They told me that they would start working on it first thing in the morning (shop opens at 7am, jeep was there from yesterday drop off) and they called me at 4:50pm and said it was done. I'm not sure how much an hour they charge but I think most places around here are around $65/hr.

[tgoeujon]

dan , i agree completly on the green( theres a new yellow thats supposed to mix with everything, im hoping it proves to be good). im just having difficulty figuring out what they did to the tcase to cost so much, i may have to add a little to my bills when i do servicing, lol

[fishoholic]

Trevor, by her list, All that was done was routine fluid changes. No warrranty work. SHe DEFFINATELY needs to find a different shop. Thats over Double what it should cost.



Groan, and I thought that by going to the dealership to get the work done I was doing the right thing. *sigh*

[fishoholic]

HOLLY CRAP !!!!!! A good Synthetic 75w140 should be $12-16 If I remeber correctly. Thats outrageous. And they charged $371 for labour. Holly crap. How slow was that Mechanic???
Did I say Holly Crap???

I'm thinking I should of asked around on here 1st before I had anything done :redface: At least I know for next time. Thank-you everyone for your help it's good advice to know.

[Lance]

It is always a good idea to ask for the replaced parts, etc. before the work is done. This way they know they may be caught-in-the-act of replacing perfectly good parts. I, for one, have never trusted dealerships. The mark-up on new cars is not as good as it used to be, so they gouge you in other ways, such as for warranty service. I come from a smallish town that only has two dealerships. Any warranty work has to be taken to another city by ferry. (PITA!). My wife has an '06 Mitsubishi Eclipse, and they are the only dealership I have ever dealt with that allows us to have warranty service done by any licensed mechanic of our choice. The only stipulations are that approved oil, filters, etc. are used. This works out to large savings as our mechanic of choice charges about 25% less than most; no ferries; and I know I'm not getting ripped-off as our mechanic is a most trustworthy fellow.

[Skimmerking]

For record plugs shouldnt be changed at 50,000 they are good for 120,000 km that is from jeep its self they install the new ones for 120,000 on all vehicles. they took your wallet for a ride.

a flush on your rad at 50,000 is crazy you dont need it, just drain it and refill.

PCV valve are not a must and they arent really important, tell them that you have some one later on to replace it.. they charge you like 80 bucks to change it and they cost about 6-10 bucks each just like the oxygen sensor too what a waste of money.

[balistidae]

This is what the bill says

Transfer case svc. tech(s):3811 $371.54

Complaint: Check transfer case fluid; advise if service is required
Use sythetic oil if required; advise if full 4x4 service required
Do not perform before advising please (which they did)

Cause: Dirty driveline fluids

Correction: Performed 4x4 service, used synthetic fluids

Description
Sealer 01-081-003 $6.94
75W140 01-081-020 $110.37
Lube 01-081-090 $31.14
Multipurp 01-081-02 Internal

Total labor and parts $519.99

Any ideas as to what it all means? Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. I thought maybe they replaced the transfer case, and I was under the impression that whatever they did it needed to be done at 50,000km.

It looks to me like they changed out ALL driveline fluids (Front diff, tcase and rear diff). And judging by the sealer charge it most likely means the rear diff had to be split to be serviced which is where the labor charge would have come from.
Although it was a pricey service I doubt they were ripping you off. All of those items are set menu pricing generally and full synthetic fluids are quite expensive.
I think it would be a good idea to call tomorrow and get a full explanation of the services performed and just verify they fall into your maintenance schedule, good luck!

[Skimmerking]

Minor tune up and spark plugs- $249.99
Transfer case SVC- $519.99
Transmission service- $183.51
PCV valve- $96.00
MISC (environ fee & shop fees)- $34.00
Tax- $61.00

On the last page it's broken down as:

:evil: Labor $732.96!!!!!! :eek: (boy am I in the wrong field)
Parts $453.01
MISC $34.00
Tax $61.00
Total $1280.97 *YUCK!*

ok the plug thing is all that is said there its taken out the plugs and putting in new ones , they dont install the new wires either that is extra I will bet my tank and a years pay on that one.. a transmission service Im sorry you have 50k on your vehicle you dont need them to flush out your tranny

[PoonTang]

Minor tune up at MOST would be air/fuel filters and a set of plugs. Everything else is computerized and unadjustable. 1 hour at most if they did it all. I think you got hosed on that 1 too at $250.

[fishoholic]

It looks to me like they changed out ALL driveline fluids (Front diff, tcase and rear diff). And judging by the sealer charge it most likely means the rear diff had to be split to be serviced which is where the labor charge would have come from.
Although it was a pricey service I doubt they were ripping you off. All of those items are set menu pricing generally and full synthetic fluids are quite expensive.
I think it would be a good idea to call tomorrow and get a full explanation of the services performed and just verify they fall into your maintenance schedule, good luck!

Thanks for explaining. I don't think they ripped me off for the work they did (might of been cheaper else where but I didn't know who to trust) and I knew that the synthetic was more money, but I just didn't think that the work being done was going to be so pricey.

[dsaundry]

Ok I will put my 2 bucks in.
I own an automotive repair shop and yes some of the prices you got seem high, some are not. The transfer case service does seem quite high and without a detailed report on what they do when they service the transfer case and differential fluids next time I would check around. As for the fluid types, full synthetics are quite expensive compared to regular oils, As for some of the advise about what to get done, your manual is a pretty good guide in most cases, however you can go to any warranty approved shop and get the services done there, The average dealership here is about $120.00 per hour and the average shop is about $90.00 per hour, so you save some there. As for the coolant flush I agree to go green, the north american manufacturers seem to have a problem developing gaskets that stand up to the degredation of the long-life coolant. Green is better and there are animal friendly versions out now as well. Tune-ups are a word of the past, there is only scheduled maintenance now. Spark plugs from a lot of manufacturers and aftermarket suppliers are rated at well over 120,000km, but on higher milage cars I wouldnt put a long-life plug in. A regular v-groove actually works better. A bad oxygen senseor will screw up a motor real quick{sorry asmodeus} I have seen that firsthand, but the pcv price seems high too. Depends on what motor you have as far as labour goes, some spark plugs a real pain to get at and pull. Jeeps included. Try doing plugs in a newer Ford with a Triton motor in under 2 hours. Bottom line is if you feel you got hosed find another shop, ask around. There are a lot of good honest shops out there as well.
Ok just to stir the pot even more, A coolant flush would definately be recommended at 50k It deteriorates too quickly,not to flush the coolant can screw up a heater core. Pcv valves are important! 75/140 is about $20 perlitre. Mark up on parts is not where shops make their money, to the heavy duty mechanic. Try paying out insurance for your buildings, payroll tax's, Insurance for the techs, benefits, etc etc etc, and I hate to say this but you are all lucky the dealerships and private shops arent charging $200.00 plus per hour...By the way..its coming, The "Mechanic" has taken a bad rap for a lot of years, not all deserved, now that vehicles are changing to computerized modular systems you need to study a lot just to work on them, let alone the equipment to work on them. Nobody seems to have a problem giving a lawyer $200-500 dollars an hour, but look out if the shop charges you $200-500 to do your brakes. As for my qualifications I am inter-provincially licenced, a master tech and I get a lot of vehicles towed to my shop that a lot of back yard wannabe techs try to fix themselves. I go to courses every year just to keep up to date on the advances[good+bad] that are coming out. So do I think I am worth less per hour than any lawyer...or anybody else..Nope.

[fishoholic]

Ok I will put my 2 bucks in.
I own an automotive repair shop and yes some of the prices you got seem high, some are not. The transfer case service does seem quite high and without a detailed report on what they do when they service the transfer case and differential fluids next time I would check around. As for the fluid types, full synthetics are quite expensive compared to regular oils, As for some of the advise about what to get done, your manual is a pretty good guide in most cases, however you can go to any warranty approved shop and get the services done there, The average dealership here is about $120.00 per hour and the average shop is about $90.00 per hour, so you save some there. As for the coolant flush I agree to go green, the north american manufacturers seem to have a problem developing gaskets that stand up to the degredation of the long-life coolant. Green is better and there are animal friendly versions out now as well. Tune-ups are a word of the past, there is only scheduled maintenance now. Spark plugs from a lot of manufacturers and aftermarket suppliers are rated at well over 120,000km, but on higher milage cars I wouldnt put a long-life plug in. A regular v-groove actually works better. A bad oxygen senseor will screw up a motor real quick{sorry asmodeus} I have seen that firsthand, but the pcv price seems high too. Depends on what motor you have as far as labour goes, some spark plugs a real pain to get at and pull. Jeeps included. Try doing plugs in a newer Ford with a Triton motor in under 2 hours. Bottom line is if you feel you got hosed find another shop, ask around. There are a lot of good honest shops out there as well.
Ok just to stir the pot even more, A coolant flush would definately be recommended at 50k It deteriorates too quickly,not to flush the coolant can screw up a heater core. Pcv valves are important! 75/140 is about $20 perlitre. Mark up on parts is not where shops make their money, to the heavy duty mechanic. Try paying out insurance for your buildings, payroll tax's, Insurance for the techs, benefits, etc etc etc, and I hate to say this but you are all lucky the dealerships and private shops arent charging $200.00 plus per hour...By the way..its coming, The "Mechanic" has taken a bad rap for a lot of years, not all deserved, now that vehicles are changing to computerized modular systems you need to study a lot just to work on them, let alone the equipment to work on them. Nobody seems to have a problem giving a lawyer $200-500 dollars an hour, but look out if the shop charges you $200-500 to do your brakes. As for my qualifications I am inter-provincially licenced, a master tech and I get a lot of vehicles towed to my shop that a lot of back yard wannabe techs try to fix themselves. I go to courses every year just to keep up to date on the advances[good+bad] that are coming out. So do I think I am worth less per hour than any lawyer...or anybody else..Nope.

Thank-you for sharing. I welcome the advice. I knew the dealership was going to cost more but I trusted the dealership to do it right, which I think/hope they did. As for the work they did it was listed in the manual as needing to be done and that's why I got the work done. My boyfriend does the regular oil changes so I didn't have them do that, but everything else that was listed (Minor tune up and spark plugs, Transfer case, Transmission service and PCV valve) I had them do. On the plus side they didn't try to tell me that this that and the other thing needed to be done as well, and they didn't do anything I didn't want done.

FYI This is the details on the transfer case that they gave me:
Transfer case svc. tech(s):3811 $371.54

Complaint: Check transfer case fluid; advise if service is required
Use sythetic oil if required; advise if full 4x4 service required
Do not perform before advising please (which they did)

Cause: Dirty driveline fluids

Correction: Performed 4x4 service, used synthetic fluids

Description
Sealer 01-081-003 $6.94
75W140 01-081-020 $110.37
Lube 01-081-090 $31.14
Multipurp 01-081-02 Internal

Total labor and parts $519.99

Any ideas as to what it all means? Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. I thought maybe they replaced the transfer case, and I was under the impression that whatever they did it needed to be done at 50,000km.

And this is the response from balistidae:
It looks to me like they changed out ALL driveline fluids (Front diff, tcase and rear diff). And judging by the sealer charge it most likely means the rear diff had to be split to be serviced which is where the labor charge would have come from.
Although it was a pricey service I doubt they were ripping you off. All of those items are set menu pricing generally and full synthetic fluids are quite expensive.

As for how much you get paid an hour, I'm just jealous! I'd love to make $90/hr :biggrin:

[X-Treme]

Mind if I ask what kind and year jeep this is? I have NEVER seen a transfer case that isn't just a drain and fill with plugs. I too own my own automotive repair shop, and even at the $110/hr that we charge, there is NO WAY that ANY transfer case service takes more than 3 hours. I would guess 1/2 hour or less MAX. It is my opinion to the best of my knowledge that you got ROYALLY screwed on the transfer case service. As for the coolant and spark plugs, I agree that 50k is too early for those as well.

[X-Treme]

On the plus side they didn't try to tell me that this that and the other thing needed to be done as well, and they didn't do anything I didn't want done.

That's cause they already hosed you on everything else....

[mark]

What does surprise me is they didn't get you for the $50 hit on the cabin air filter.

I think lesson here is next time do what you can handle yourself and shop around for quotes on the rest.

[atc]

Ok I will put my 2 bucks in.
I own an automotive repair shop and yes some of the prices you got seem high, some are not. The transfer case service does seem quite high and without a detailed report on what they do when they service the transfer case and differential fluids next time I would check around. As for the fluid types, full synthetics are quite expensive compared to regular oils, As for some of the advise about what to get done, your manual is a pretty good guide in most cases, however you can go to any warranty approved shop and get the services done there, The average dealership here is about $120.00 per hour and the average shop is about $90.00 per hour, so you save some there. As for the coolant flush I agree to go green, the north american manufacturers seem to have a problem developing gaskets that stand up to the degredation of the long-life coolant. Green is better and there are animal friendly versions out now as well. Tune-ups are a word of the past, there is only scheduled maintenance now. Spark plugs from a lot of manufacturers and aftermarket suppliers are rated at well over 120,000km, but on higher milage cars I wouldnt put a long-life plug in. A regular v-groove actually works better. A bad oxygen senseor will screw up a motor real quick{sorry asmodeus} I have seen that firsthand, but the pcv price seems high too. Depends on what motor you have as far as labour goes, some spark plugs a real pain to get at and pull. Jeeps included. Try doing plugs in a newer Ford with a Triton motor in under 2 hours. Bottom line is if you feel you got hosed find another shop, ask around. There are a lot of good honest shops out there as well.
Ok just to stir the pot even more, A coolant flush would definately be recommended at 50k It deteriorates too quickly,not to flush the coolant can screw up a heater core. Pcv valves are important! 75/140 is about $20 perlitre. Mark up on parts is not where shops make their money, to the heavy duty mechanic. Try paying out insurance for your buildings, payroll tax's, Insurance for the techs, benefits, etc etc etc, and I hate to say this but you are all lucky the dealerships and private shops arent charging $200.00 plus per hour...

WELL SAID.




By the way..its coming, The "Mechanic" has taken a bad rap for a lot of years, not all deserved, now that vehicles are changing to computerized modular systems you need to study a lot just to work on them, let alone the equipment to work on them. Nobody seems to have a problem giving a lawyer $200-500 dollars an hour, but look out if the shop charges you $200-500 to do your brakes. As for my qualifications I am inter-provincially licenced, a master tech and I get a lot of vehicles towed to my shop that a lot of back yard wannabe techs try to fix themselves. I go to courses every year just to keep up to date on the advances[good+bad] that are coming out. So do I think I am worth less per hour than any lawyer...or anybody else..Nope.

Being a lic. tech, this is so true.

[fishoholic]

Mind if I ask what kind and year jeep this is? I have NEVER seen a transfer case that isn't just a drain and fill with plugs. I too own my own automotive repair shop, and even at the $110/hr that we charge, there is NO WAY that ANY transfer case service takes more than 3 hours. I would guess 1/2 hour or less MAX. It is my opinion to the best of my knowledge that you got ROYALLY screwed on the transfer case service. As for the coolant and spark plugs, I agree that 50k is too early for those as well.

Hummmm, I guess I should of called you :sad: It's a 2004 jeep liberty.

[banditpowdercoat]

Basically as soon as the snow hits the ground and until the snow is gone I keep it in 4x4.

I think they did the work they said they did, I just didn't think that the work was going to cost so much. $732.96 in labor alone *ouch* They told me that they would start working on it first thing in the morning (shop opens at 7am, jeep was there from yesterday drop off) and they called me at 4:50pm and said it was done. I'm not sure how much an hour they charge but I think most places around here are around $65/hr.


I pretty much keep my Dakota in 4x4 too. Otherwise, its scarry. Even with great snow tires. 2WD on dry pavement tho. Love the shift on the fly... BUt ya A TON of great advice and help here. Next time, just ask, and we will all help you do your own services. Just promise to wash hands thourally before going into the tank :D Its all really easy, and we'll show you how.

[Slick Fork]

A car dealership is no better or worse then anybody else in the retail world. I have friends and family in many retail stores and you would be sick if you saw the mark up in clothes or electronics.

[dsaundry]

As for how much you get paid an hour, I'm just jealous! I'd love to make $90/hr :biggrin:



Remember that is the door rate; the tech does not make anywhere close to that. Neither do I.
I still think the transfercase service is a bit high. If they did the differentials and transfer case service which on a Liberty would include removal of skid plates if equipped the labour is still too high imo.


A car dealership is no better or worse then anybody else in the retail world. I have friends and family in many retail stores and you would be sick if you saw the mark up in clothes or electronics.


Definately agree!!!

[Parker]

I have two cars in the shop right now - 01 Focus Wagon with a broken timing belt ( I don't think I'm going to fix it ) and my back up, my 92 F-150 with a problem somewhere between the ignition and the starter. ( That pops up the second I need to drive it, the thing hasn't moved in three months and now it breaks! ) I'm cringing waiting to see what the bills are going to be.

[Skimmerking]

Another thing that just hit me is that a lot of times that these shops will take women for granted, and add a few things on too. I have seen that first hand too. It happened to my wife with her car, when we were first dating. She took her car into a shop to get serviced and the guys said i will do this and that. So I knew that some of the stuff wasn’t done. Like the coolant, windshield washer fluid, JUST adding water and charging her for a bottle, stupid stuff like that, knowing that she would never look under the hood. Man Father always taught me to spray paint the oil plug to test other shops so i did that too. and guess what they didn’t even change the oil after saying that they did..

So after that they charged her over 300 dollars, she paid it came home crying and told me that the car wasn’t even touched on some things, she checked the oil and it was black not somewhat clear. The water in windshield container was all water. So needless to sya i went up there for a drive. and i went to talk to the manager. then showed him the receipt and ask if he could put the car up on the hoist, so i can show him the oil that has not been changed, he laughed ,then i told him that Ok i will prove that your guys are ripping people off and will see you in court.
The manager says i will humour you then put it up on the hoist.
any ways guess what happened next. The manager said oh we spray paint our plugs to ensure that they don’t come off.

YA whatever, I told him and then said I will see you in court and told him that is ok i have pictures of it all see you in court. needless to say the shop was closed from other complaints and the manager was fined and had to pay for my court time and we got our money back...

That is why I don’t trust people when they work on my car or the wife's car. I watch...

[StirCrazy]

.By the way..its coming, The "Mechanic" has taken a bad rap for a lot of years, not all deserved, now that vehicles are changing to computerized modular systems you need to study a lot just to work on them, let alone the equipment to work on them.

Ok, Ok, I agree with one but not the other, we are grease monkeys plain and simple, I think we actually need less skill to be a good Mechanic than we did 30 years ago, but we do need more expensive equipment which tells us what is wrong.

as for what dealerships charge and anyone who uses book value, you are going to get ripped off in >85% of the cases. A good example of this is when my truck got ripped off I got it back in less than good shape, I had two injectors gone (diesel truck) and I was on a course so I didn't have time to do them myself so I sent it to ford. Well they charged 1400.00 for two re manufactured injectors (who said they don't make money off parts) and 1000.00 for labor. well a week later I had another injector go, so instead of playing chase the injectors I decided to replace them all. I bought 8 injectors out of the US for 1300.00 for remans (less than the price of two from ford) and it took me a grand total of 3 hours start to finish to do the removal and installation, hmm ford is charging over 300/hour now?

I have a friend who has a shop here in town, just him as he can't find a deicent mechanic to hire. he charges 60 bucks an hour and doesn't charge if he is not actually working on the car, where dealers will charge even if they can't fix the problem. this is the biggest complaint I have as I took my old truck in about 3 years ago, it would shut off when you try start it intermittently. they charged me 2 hours labor because every 15 min they sent a guy out to start it and see what it did and they couldn't get it to do it. More than a little upset I took it home, looked on the Internet for 5 min and found the problem and fixed it in 10 min (cleaning the IAC) you would think a dealership or a mechanic would be able to figure out a very common problem in that year of vehicle.

I usually work on a lot older stuff myself, but I look forward to new stuff as with all the computers and stuff it is so much simpler to find out what is wrong, and only have a few extra wires to unplug to get at anything. Heck with the computer programs out there now you can do anything at home a shop can do, if you have the tools to do it and like getting scraped knuckles and such :mrgreen:

Steve

[dsaundry]

Another thing that just hit me is that a lot of times that these shops will take women for granted, and add a few things on too. I have seen that first hand too. It happened to my wife with her car, when we were first dating. She took her car into a shop to get serviced and the guys said i will do this and that. So I knew that some of the stuff wasn’t done. Like the coolant, windshield washer fluid, JUST adding water and charging her for a bottle, stupid stuff like that, knowing that she would never look under the hood. Man Father always taught me to spray paint the oil plug to test other shops so i did that too. and guess what they didn’t even change the oil after saying that they did..

So after that they charged her over 300 dollars, she paid it came home crying and told me that the car wasn’t even touched on some things, she checked the oil and it was black not somewhat clear. The water in windshield container was all water. So needless to sya i went up there for a drive. and i went to talk to the manager. then showed him the receipt and ask if he could put the car up on the hoist, so i can show him the oil that has not been changed, he laughed ,then i told him that Ok i will prove that your guys are ripping people off and will see you in court.
The manager says i will humour you then put it up on the hoist.
any ways guess what happened next. The manager said oh we spray paint our plugs to ensure that they don’t come off.

YA whatever, I told him and then said I will see you in court and told him that is ok i have pictures of it all see you in court. needless to say the shop was closed from other complaints and the manager was fined and had to pay for my court time and we got our money back...

That is why I don’t trust people when they work on my car or the wife's car. I watch...


Sounds like you have had a bad experience, however 60% of my customers are female, a trend that is more common in the industry today.
If we put a part in, we always keep it for the customer. The majority of people look at it and say yup, throw it away, but I always give them the option if they want their old parts. I will be the first to admit that there are some real lousy shops out there and fortunately most dont last long. I think that is the case with most professions, lousy plumbers, lawyers, dr's, etc, etc. but to condemn a whole industry due to a poor experience is not right. I have a great lawyer that works for me, I love my doctor, and have some great professionals that work for me when I need them. I also have a great crew at work, that included weeding out some questionable staff from the early years. Any business has a growing period and as this is a human industry there are errors, how any individual or corporation deals with their errors is what defines them as good or bad. Just look at whats happening with banks, automotive companies{the big three] in particular. as well as with the economy. I have a motto at my shop..." If you like what we do, tell your friends, if you don't like what we do, Tell Me!" I have always believed in providing people with the same service that I expect to get. You gave a manager a chance to correct a mistake and he blew it. Not all people would. The unfortunate truth in most industries is that most people dont' complain..they just don't come back. I have not advertised in 3 years and my shop is always busy, I stress...always busy. I get all my customers from word of mouth and usually have a strong family connection..if the parents come in, the kids come in and so on. I hope you find a good shop and regain some faith in some industries...

[dsaundry]

Ok, Ok, I agree with one but not the other, we are grease monkeys plain and simple, I think we actually need less skill to be a good Mechanic than we did 30 years ago, but we do need more expensive equipment which tells us what is wrong.



Grease Monkey's?? My guys can get dirty, but they still wear gloves and use a seat cover and floor mat..sure you are bound to get oil and grease on us from time to time but that is like saying all a doctor does is stick his hands in blood all day. as for the less skill part, try tracing a ground fault in an electrical system, or finding a voltage drop in a circuit in any vehicle. If you think that your code reader is going to show you the problem you are sadly mistaken. Diagnostic labour can be the most trouble when working on any vehicle, sure sometimes it is easier, but how many back-yarders have a $10,000 scan tool with gas analyzer, let alone the hoists and other specialized tools that you need to do some jobs. Nevermind the fact that before I bought my shop I had over $50,000 in hand tools that I puchased and due to stupid government regulations I cant write virtually any of it off. Again it boiled down to the skills of the individual. You may have a good mechanic that charges you $60 per hour. Better hope his insurance is good, see what happens if he makes a mistake and I will bet he does sometimes, are you covered?? As for cleaning the IAC did he address what caused it to become contaminated, did he suggest a decarbonization or an injector flush? Did he service the air box and clean the tubing to your throttle body? I am not going to get into a finger pointing match with any other techs, but sometimes you get what you pay for. There are some real quality shops, and dealerships out there and they have the right to be paid for their services. There are some not so great shops and dealerships out there as well, and yes, I would like to see them close up their doors. But your statement about having to know less nowadays is misinformed.

[fishoholic]

Remember that is the door rate; the tech does not make anywhere close to that. Neither do I.
I still think the transfercase service is a bit high. If they did the differentials and transfer case service which on a Liberty would include removal of skid plates if equipped the labour is still too high imo.



Definately agree!!!

Good point, I guess a lot of it goes towards parts and everyones salary. BTW I don't have skid plates.

[Slick Fork]

Just a word of caution from one of your other posts... running your vehicle in full 4x4 when on dry pavement or even wet pavement with decent grip as well as driving in 4x4 at speeds over about 80km/hr will damage the system.

[dsaundry]

Just a word of caution from one of your other posts... running your vehicle in full 4x4 when on dry pavement or even wet pavement with decent grip as well as driving in 4x4 at speeds over about 80km/hr will damage the system.


Big agreement there...:biggrin:

[fishoholic]

Just a word of caution from one of your other posts... running your vehicle in full 4x4 when on dry pavement or even wet pavement with decent grip as well as driving in 4x4 at speeds over about 80km/hr will damage the system.

When there is no snow on the road I take it out of 4x4 but as long as there is snow on the road it stays in 4x4. Crashed on a bridge (which was pretty scary, luckily no one was hurt, just the front bumper was damaged) a few years ago from icy conditions which might not of happened if it had been in 4x4. I don't do much highway driving so it's not very often I drive over 80km.

[brizzo]

Just a word of caution from one of your other posts... running your vehicle in full 4x4 when on dry pavement or even wet pavement with decent grip as well as driving in 4x4 at speeds over about 80km/hr will damage the system.

That's not entirely true with Jeep 4-wheel systems. NV231 (Command Trac) only has 4-hi part time, which is no good for pavement (2004 Liberty most likely has). There is the NV242 (Select Trac) which has part time, and full-time 4-hi .. Full-time 4-HI was designed for pavement 4x4 all-time.

Personally I think the labour charge seems high, but if they were draining your t-case and noticed excessive metal flakes (could be from high 4x4 usage). They decided to crack it open, along with both front and rear diffs to check for mechanical issues. Just speculation, but I know personally jeep 4-wheel systems can be troublesome :) (PS: I love my jeep quadratrac system in the snow! )

[banditpowdercoat]

The NV244 works fine in my Dakota, 100KPH on the highway:D I do take it out when bare roads. But if theres compact/ice in sections, it wont bind the drivetrain.

[brizzo]

The NV244 works fine in my Dakota, 100KPH on the highway:D I do take it out when bare roads. But if theres compact/ice in sections, it wont bind the drivetrain.

Thats a dodge, not a JEEP :rofl:

[banditpowdercoat]

Thats a dodge, not a JEEP :rofl:


LOL, Ya I forgot. COMPLETELY different....:wink:

[StirCrazy]

Grease Monkey's??

You may have a good mechanic that charges you $60 per hour. Better hope his insurance is good, see what happens if he makes a mistake and I will bet he does sometimes, are you covered?? As for cleaning the IAC did he address what caused it to become contaminated, did he suggest a decarbonization or an injector flush? Did he service the air box and clean the tubing to your throttle body? I am not going to get into a finger pointing match with any other techs, but sometimes you get what you pay for. There are some real quality shops, and dealerships out there and they have the right to be paid for their services. There are some not so great shops and dealerships out there as well, and yes, I would like to see them close up their doors. But your statement about having to know less nowadays is misinformed.

Grease monkey is just a carry over name your reading to much into that. My friend is not my mechanic I do all my own and I know what owners have to buy and I think it is hi way robbery, my shop at work, yes even in the military, had to buy about 30K in tools and such just so I could do warranty work on Volvo Penta stuff, which I am a authorized mechanic (grease monkey :mrgreen: ) for.

It was myself that fixed my truck, I do my own stuff, and yes I did know what caused to to gum up, bad design, it was common in early truck 4.6 motors, and the easy fix would bypass some of the pollution junk so I just cleaned it when it needed it. I did do the decarbarization, I had an injector service. I did these every year asnormal maintance, I am kinda anal when it comes to my cars.

I am also a heavy duty diesel mechanic, and qualified by solar Saturn to work on there gas turbines. I have spent the last 19 years on courses and practical learning for these and several other mechanical systems. I am also as you put it a backyard mechanic for normal cars, although I like to think I have a leg up on most because of my training. I know the companies make you buy the big 10K reader, I have played with the snap-on one and it is neat even tells you the most common faults that cause the problem. I hate how they have you over their barrel for buying what they say when you can buy software and adapters for a laptop that will do the same thing for 1/10 of the cost. I know nowdays with the readers and newer sensors they tell you if you have a gound fault and let you know where to look, yes there is a learning curve to get good at electronics, but between the readers (good ones) and knowing how to do drop voltage tests and a little understanding of the computer workings it is actualy more simple than working on a old carburated motor that has a no start. alot of the repairs used to be trial and error and hours of trouble shooting, where nowdays you do a scan and where you have to look is narrowed down for you. Heck the Vodia tool for Volvo Penta will tell me which sensor is giving me the problem, weather it is a true reading or false, weather the power to the sensor is shorted or if the signal wire is shorted.


I have several friends who are mechanics, and several of my family are also, I am not knocking the mechanic, but rather the system. the big shops make it very hard for a self employed guy to get a good business going so they have to have lower prices, and I know what happens when he puts a part in that was defective, he eats it and replaces it so he can keep the customers.

anyways aside from that, I have all the respect in the world for honest shops, but they don't seam to be the norm lately.

oh if you want a challenge I got one for you, no one can figure it out, not me, not ford, not and of the other shops I have talked to as it is a real weird one. how familiar are you with 1996 3L Vulcan V6 in the Taurus?:mrgreen:

Steve

[banditpowdercoat]

Taurus, Ya throw it away LOL

[tgoeujon]

whats the question on the v6 taurus?

[StirCrazy]

whats the question on the v6 taurus?

ok to me it sounds like a couple problems mixed together

it drives fine, actually really nice for a car with almost 300K on it. We bought it in 99 with 99K on it, and have not had to put any money into it aside from regular preventive maintenance untill recently where we had to change the oil pan as it went pourous, and a few years back I had to change the timing sensor as the berring on it went and we changed the A frame mounts. Spark plugs, wires, oil sender are all new, it had a fuel injection service about 8 months ago, and is not throwing any codes at all, not even the ford codes that a normal code reader can't read.

what happens is every once and a while it starts knocking under load, and blows blue smoke like crazy. then it stops a runs like a new motor. I replaced the PCV and the grommet and it stopped doing this for a couple weeks then it started again.

I have checked the timing sender and put it on the scope to verify the timing is ok. when I am doing live reading while driving the timing drops off while it is knocking, but the timing sender check out fine when I test it. The knocking doesn't sound like the old timing is out rattle but rather a hard knock. and it is using a lot of oil laity.

We are getting the wife a new car in the near future but I want this one to hold out a little longer as I don't know how long it will take to finnish the will and get the money to get the wife a new VW TDI.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Taurus, Ya throw it away LOL

yup were going to, and get a 09 VW TDI. I was hoping this one would last untill this summer when we move to Kamloops or till we get the new car (which ever comes first) which it will but I want it to run better than it is untill then.

Steve

[dsaundry]

Have you determined if it is bottom end knock or top end? Bottom end might be the early indication of a rod starting to let go. You say that the timing does drop out when it is knocking which is normal as the knock sensor would cause it to drop. It might also be a valve issue as well. As big of a pain as it is, its time to pull the heads and inspect..I would really like to hear it first...

Sorry dont mean to hijack a thread here....

[fishoholic]

Have you determined if it is bottom end knock or top end? Bottom end might be the early indication of a rod starting to let go. You say that the timing does drop out when it is knocking which is normal as the knock sensor would cause it to drop. It might also be a valve issue as well. As big of a pain as it is, its time to pull the heads and inspect..I would really like to hear it first...

Sorry dont mean to hijack a thread here....

No worries, hijack away, I find the info interesting and useful.

[nats]

Hi,
I work for a Import Car Dealership in Victoria. In our shop we have one apprentice at a time and one lube tech, the rest are factory trained mechanics. Are door rate is close to $100.00 an hour. Sometimes when you go to a generic service centre you will have a cheap labour person working on your car, and the magority of the time they will not have the proper diognotics and will use cheap aftermarket parts. We had a lady in a while back wanting her car fixed. When we told her what it would cost she called us every bad name in the book and she took her car elsewhere. A few days later she was back, because the service centre she took it to put the wrong parts in her car and caused major damage to her engine. They would not take responsiblity for the damage. So in this case it cost her alot more.
You should be able to take your car to any licenced service facility to perform general maintence with out affecting you warranty as long as you keep the records. Just my two cents:smile:

[StirCrazy]

Have you determined if it is bottom end knock or top end? Bottom end might be the early indication of a rod starting to let go. You say that the timing does drop out when it is knocking which is normal as the knock sensor would cause it to drop. It might also be a valve issue as well. As big of a pain as it is, its time to pull the heads and inspect..I would really like to hear it first...

Sorry dont mean to hijack a thread here....

Ya, I thought it was the knock sensor so I wasn't to worried about that thought I would mention it though.
If I had to guess, I would say lower end, as it is slower than engine speed, I thought of a rod but it doesn't make sense, as it is not consistant enough. If it was a rod going under load then it would do it pretty much every time you loaded it up, not only once in a blue moon, oh and if you floor it when it is knocking it goes away (forgot to mention that) I have been avoiding the pulling the heads part :mrgreen: as I am thinking that way myself, but it is a lot for a car we are getting rid of and isn't worth anything :mrgreen:.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Hi,
I work for a Import Car Dealership in Victoria.

which one you work at Nats?

Steve

[lorenz0]

Oh wow lol so much hate on a dealership. Personally i am an apprentice at mazda and trust me when i say this, depending on the car depends on what needs to be done.

But I am suprised about the transfercase. With only 50,000km's it should be under warrenty. But this is where a dealership can get you. If you do not have major services (in other works, the fancy oil changes that cost you $500) the dealership will void your warrenty. With some of the things I have seen in the trade I don't trust anyone with my personal car except 3 of my tech friends who help me out. Just seeing how much every thing costs is insane. But i have had my manager void a few warrenty's because of people actually not servicing their cars at all. for instance i had a cx-7 that never had its oil changed in 1 1/2 years. you can imagine how that was.

If you have had all your services done, i would go talk to the service manager cause that transfercase should be covered under your driveline warrenty.

HOLLY CRAP !!!!!! A good Synthetic 75w140 should be $12-16 If I remeber correctly. Thats outrageous. And they charged $371 for labour. Holly crap. How slow was that Mechanic???
Did I say Holly Crap???

Every job should have a paid rate. so what ever job those were thats how much they cost in labour. for all you know a job that pays out 3 hours could be done in 45min.

[banditpowdercoat]

Oh wow lol so much hate on a dealership. Personally i am an apprentice at mazda and trust me when i say this, depending on the car depends on what needs to be done.

But I am suprised about the transfercase. With only 50,000km's it should be under warrenty. But this is where a dealership can get you. If you do not have major services (in other works, the fancy oil changes that cost you $500) the dealership will void your warrenty. With some of the things I have seen in the trade I don't trust anyone with my personal car except 3 of my tech friends who help me out. Just seeing how much every thing costs is insane. But i have had my manager void a few warrenty's because of people actually not servicing their cars at all. for instance i had a cx-7 that never had its oil changed in 1 1/2 years. you can imagine how that was.

If you have had all your services done, i would go talk to the service manager cause that transfercase should be covered under your driveline warrenty.



Every job should have a paid rate. so what ever job those were thats how much they cost in labour. for all you know a job that pays out 3 hours could be done in 45min.

Soo, It's OK to charge 3 hrs for a job that takes 45 min because Some BOOK says thats the price??? Thats Freakin BS right there. one of the reasons I hate Stealerships.

[lorenz0]

I don't think its ok at times but thats how flat rate works. All depends on how good you are at the job. Like for me i can replace a auto transmission in 8 hours (and thats being slow) when another apprentice takes 2 days. Trust me would you rather take the chance and pay hourly and either get someone who is fast or someone who is slow or pay the fixed rate.

Also depending on the job sometimes diagnose is in the fixed rate

I think the OP got ripped off

[fishoholic]

If you have had all your services done, i would go talk to the service manager cause that transfercase should be covered under your driveline warrenty.



Every job should have a paid rate. so what ever job those were thats how much they cost in labour. for all you know a job that pays out 3 hours could be done in 45min.

My warranty isn't void and I have had all my regular maintenance (oil changes etc.) done and up to date. My 5 year warranty (whatever that covers) isn't up until July 2009. I asked the dealership if the transfer case was covered under my warranty and they said no. However the dealership I brought my jeep to is the one close to where I live, it's not the dealership I bought my jeep from.

I agree with the idea of fixed rates for services. It would of been nice to know that this costs this much to fix and that's it. Not this costs this much plus however long it takes to do it.

[Reefhawk1]

i dont like to argue but the coolant flush is important even at low kms. especially on chevys, the pink coolant causes electrolysis really quickly and can cost alot of money in repairs if not flushed fairly often.

True about pink coolant since it is more acidic compared to green coolant. Pink coolant is usually extended life coolant and in my opinion a pain in the ass.

I see this stuff come in most new heavy truck engines and it is pricey when you need to replace it. I will give the customer the option to change over to regular coolant when replacement is required.

[dsaundry]

Ya, I thought it was the knock sensor so I wasn't to worried about that thought I would mention it though.
If I had to guess, I would say lower end, as it is slower than engine speed, I thought of a rod but it doesn't make sense, as it is not consistant enough. If it was a rod going under load then it would do it pretty much every time you loaded it up, not only once in a blue moon, oh and if you floor it when it is knocking it goes away (forgot to mention that) I have been avoiding the pulling the heads part :mrgreen: as I am thinking that way myself, but it is a lot for a car we are getting rid of and isn't worth anything :mrgreen:.

Steve


One other quick thought about the "noise" is a harmonic balancer starting to fail..common on some "fords" More so on sc t-birds though. Still think its in a rod or bearing ..Sounds like a good summer project..:biggrin:

[dsaundry]

Soo, It's OK to charge 3 hrs for a job that takes 45 min because Some BOOK says thats the price??? Thats Freakin BS right there. one of the reasons I hate Stealerships.


The guide works in 2 ways..the labour rate can be in your favour too. If an apprentice is working on your vehicle{we all start as apprentices} It may take him 5-6 hours to do a 3-4 hour job but you arent going to pay 5-6 hours labour. I have been in this business 35 years now and have seen a lot of good stuff and a lot of crap. It took a number of years before I considered myself to be a "Good Mechanic" and I have still made mistakes. Sure there are some jobs that I can do faster than the labour guide but I will also point out that you do pay for experience too. You can have 2 identical vehicles for the same type of work, one goes without any problems, the other one you might break a head-bolt or have a housing crack, so 2 similar jobs can take way different times. Does anybody complain when the young doctor takes 4-6 hours to do what the older experienced doctor does in 2-3 hours..Bill is the same, How about dentists..same idea. There is a severe shortage of automotive technicians right now, a lot of young people when they look at a profession see automotive as a very expensive career to get into. Why start a career that is going to cost you $5000.00-$15,000 just to get started when you can go into several other trades for much less. It is a common mindset for a lot of people starting out. Over the years I have seen the numbers drop severely. I figure I will only be doing this for another 5-10 years and with the aging population it will get much harder to find good skilled tradespeople. What do you think it will be like in 10 years when you have to book an appointment for a basic service 3-4 weeks in advance, as there arent enough techs to handle the load..The fast lube places will eventually be a thing of the past as they will have to evolve into something else as technology changes. an example is that vehicle specific oils are coming out..in a way they are already here. Try using any other transmission fluid in a newer Honda other than "Honda" fluid..Nothing but problems.VW is similar..The manufacturers arent stupid people.. They would like nothing better than see every independent shop other than dealerships disappear.That is why getting the technological data is always a few years behind for independants. That is why there is a "right to work" bill in front of the government right now. Most owners wont take their new vehicle to an independent shop untill it is off warranty..for any repair. Most owners think that if they get their oil changed or their brakes done at another shop it voids their warranty..It does not, so long as it is done at a shop with licenced mechanics. Are there cheap aftermarket parts out there??Sure there are, but there are some aftermarket parts that blow the doors off dealer parts as well. I work on R.C.M.P. vehicles as well as the Justice Institute and the Department of Fisheries, so I dont skimp on cheap parts. But I will use good parts and not all of them come from the dealers. Here is a question for all of you..As you all know anybody can walk into a Canadian Tire, Napa, Lordco etc and buy parts for their car..but who installs it? Is it someone who knows what they are doing or a back-yarder who thinks they do? Sure there are a lot of simple repairs that can be handled by a lot of people but what about the safety items, Brakes, Front end, Suspension etc. So Mr Smith tells Mr Jones that "he can save him a few buck and do his brakes at his place" Mr Jones says sure and lets him work on his car, now after Mr Jones picks up his car he drives away ands a few miles down the road his brakes fail and he crashes his car.maybe somebody gets hurt, maybe not, but this does happen on a regular basis. I have had vehicles towed to me because their "buddy" worked on it and something broke or fell off beause it wasn't torqued properly, or brakes failed as the rotors were too thin. There is no law that says you cant sell auto parts to idiots that don't have the brains to check their tire pressure let alone do their brakes or ball joints because they read a book or saw some pictures on how to do it. The majority of back-yarders are very ignorant of what it really takes to do a job properly, this includes torque spec's to bolt tightening sequences. How many people torque their spark plugs in?? Or torque their wheels on when they rotate them?? I am not trying to insult anybody its just that sometimes a little knowlege is dangerous. I may know where my tooth hurts but I am not going to let my "buddy" take a stab at fixing it unless he is a good dentist.
And for anybody who wants to say "fixing a tooth is way different than fixing a car" It isn't if you are trained to do that job. Ask your dentist if filling a cavity is a hard job for him to do, if he is honest he will tell you its not a difficult procedure. Whatever career you are trained for there are jobs that are easy for you to do but difficult if not impossible for someone in another line of work to do. So whats the bottom line?? Take your vehicle to someone you are comfortable with, ask around, if you arent happy, tell the service manager or owner and give them a chance to make it right. Mistakes will happen and as I said before it is how they are dealt with that makes any shop, dealership or otherwise good or bad.
"Happy New Year!"

[kari]

This is a Dodge thing. All the "Dodge" work trucks at my last work place would have the service engine light come on at 60,000km. Then you would get the $800+ bill for sheduled service (fluids change) from the dealer. Eventually we decided to get all the trucks serviced elsewhere for less then half the price. The work is still covered under warranty requirements. Toyota Rocks... so far:lol:.

[a4twenty]

If an apprentice is working on your vehicle{we all start as apprentices} It may take him 5-6 hours to do a 3-4 hour job but you arent going to pay 5-6 hours labour.


for ~ $100/hr i don't even want an apprentice to pull my truck into the service bay, let alone work on it. if i'm paying top $$$ for a mechanic i want a licenced mechanic working on it.

the only time i take my truck to the dealership is to get them to fix warranty work, which sadly with the new vehicle is an ongoing relationship but they still try to make it as painful as possible. a simple example......


the factory installed door speakers for my truck were recalled. great news as shortly after pick up they sounded like s**t. they needed to have the vehicle in for a day to make sure they were blown, then order the speakers, then have the truck back for another day to install them. so thats 2 days without a vehicle to replace a factory recall :question:

why??? so they can bill dodge for 2 service calls, regardless of how unnecessary or inconvenient it is to me. i went in to see the manager after work that night and the speakers were ordered right away.

The manufacturers arent stupid people.. They would like nothing better than see every independent shop other than dealerships disappear.

you're right they aren't stupid people, they just treat us like we are. they need to spend more time on producing a quality vehicle and less time trying to force us to use their service departments.


Most owners wont take their new vehicle to an independent shop untill it is off warranty..for any repair. Most owners think that if they get their oil changed or their brakes done at another shop it voids their warranty..It does not, so long as it is done at a shop with licenced mechanics.

and were do we get this idea from???? the dealership


when i was buying my latest truck the dealer was trying to to push this mentality on me, offered the first few oil changes for free and tried to get me into a service package. he took me on a tour of their new high tech facility to show me where my vehicle would be serviced. i walked over to the 18 year old pimple faced oil jockey doing a service and said "can i see his licence......." nothing, "well he's an apprentice". "what a none licensed guy performing a service that could void my warranty!!!!"

needless to say i didn't buy their service package and declined on their offer for free oil changes, " i would rather do them myself and have them done right".... "but that will void your warranty"...."no it won't". and if you can believe it his next move was to try and sell me an extended warranty??????


dsaundry, sorry for picking through your post, it was just the most convenient ( being at the end ) and not an attack on you or your post :mrgreen:

[banditpowdercoat]

The guide works in 2 ways..the labour rate can be in your favour too. If an apprentice is working on your vehicle{we all start as apprentices} It may take him 5-6 hours to do a 3-4 hour job but you arent going to pay 5-6 hours labour.

But IF said apprentice is working on said vehicle, Is he Not making less wage than the Certified Mech? BUT, your still charging the customer the FULL RATE....

I have some really good friends who are Mechanics, and it was my first choice for a career out of high school, I know a bit about the biz too

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I think it's funny to say that other trades are cheaper to get into. I am a carpenter and have a lot of monet sunk into tools, my shop and my truck(well over 20 grand) and I can't even think about getting away with charging that kind of money. If I try and charge over 45-50 bucks an hour I'll get shot! The real problem is that the dealerships can basically charge whatever they want and there isn't sh#t we can do about it! I think it's absolutely disgraceful that they are going to up their shops rates because they run shitty companies and are going broke.

[StirCrazy]

One other quick thought about the "noise" is a harmonic balancer starting to fail..common on some "fords" More so on sc t-birds though. Still think its in a rod or bearing ..Sounds like a good summer project..:biggrin:

I think the only summer project here will be washing the new car LOL

Steve

[banditpowdercoat]

I think it's funny to say that other trades are cheaper to get into. I am a carpenter and have a lot of monet sunk into tools, my shop and my truck(well over 20 grand) and I can't even think about getting away with charging that kind of money. If I try and charge over 45-50 bucks an hour I'll get shot! The real problem is that the dealerships can basically charge whatever they want and there isn't sh#t we can do about it! I think it's absolutely disgraceful that they are going to up their shops rates because they run shitty companies and are going broke.

Exactly. I mean, 1 good tablesaw is a little more than a set of wrenches, unless their Snap On LOL. Plus, a carpenter needs a shop, usually a truck, a large truck to haul the tools/work. So he's got alot of overhead there too. I'm an Electrician. I don't need alot of tools, But, some of the specialized ones, cost hundreds each. Besides, were talking SHOP rates here, not the wages the Mech's or grease jockeys get. You can't say the shop charges $100/hr because the Mechanic working on your car, getting $25/hr buys his own tools. Not the shop.

[lorenz0]

If you guys want to get into the money side of it for the tech's/apprentices, its sad how much we don't see. See that $120/hour you are being charged is going into 3 sections of pay. $18-35 of it is going to the tech's wages than $25 of it is going towards the the service advisers wage. The rest is split up into shop supplies, bills and whatever the rest goes. Now you guys don't even want to get me started on service advisers. 99% of the time, they don't know what the **** they are talking about. When i need a go on something cause they need to talk to the customer there are times when i am waiting 10-15min to hear back from them. I have also finished some waiter installs and they won't finish the work order for 20 min. lol i need to stop, otherwise i will rant on for hours about them.

for ~ $100/hr i don't even want an apprentice to pull my truck into the service bay, let alone work on it. if i'm paying top $$$ for a mechanic i want a licenced mechanic working on it.


In some ways you are right. But than there are some of us out there who are good at what we do. Than again, you do have the chance where you can get a hack job apprentice. We have 2 of them at my dealership and i have fixed problems from both of them. Another thing i would like to point out is how the dealership treats us. right now i am ****ed about how my job, they hired a new tech and moved me into a bay to share with a hacker and i never get to use it. But my point is, without good help around how are we going to learn so that people like you don't know the difference between tech and apprentice work. btw, even with licensed techs you have hack job guys. I have fixed work that a tech has done.

[dsaundry]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmonton Eskimo http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=373568#post373568)
I think it's funny to say that other trades are cheaper to get into. I am a carpenter and have a lot of monet sunk into tools, my shop and my truck(well over 20 grand) and I can't even think about getting away with charging that kind of money. If I try and charge over 45-50 bucks an hour I'll get shot! The real problem is that the dealerships can basically charge whatever they want and there isn't sh#t we can do about it! I think it's absolutely disgraceful that they are going to up their shops rates because they run shitty companies and are going broke.

Exactly. I mean, 1 good tablesaw is a little more than a set of wrenches, unless their Snap On LOL. Plus, a carpenter needs a shop, usually a truck, a large truck to haul the tools/work. So he's got alot of overhead there too. I'm an Electrician. I don't need alot of tools, But, some of the specialized ones, cost hundreds each. Besides, were talking SHOP rates here, not the wages the Mech's or grease jockeys get. You can't say the shop charges $100/hr because the Mechanic working on your car, getting $25/hr buys his own tools. Not the shop.


When you own your own business its different, if you work for a company its not the same. I am assuming you are self employed.
How much can you write off? The average auto tech can't write of anything. By being self employed you aren't usually paying out employee benefits, payroll tax's, extra insurance for a tech to drive your vehicle on a road test, and while basic wrench's may be cheaper at Sears, Canadian Tire etc, you need specialized tools from places like Snap-on, Mac, or even special U.S.A. stuff.
The break down on the hourly wage usually goes like this..the average fully licensed tech makes $25-$35 per hour, plus benefits. the service writer will ussually take $20-$25 per hour, plus benefits. so the average pay out for a shop is between $45-$60 per hour, plus the benefits. Now as an independant owner I have a mortgage to pay on my shop and equipment to upgrade and replace. I have to have insurance on not only the buildings and the land but on my employee's as well{I am the service writer} I also pay workers comp premiums, payroll tax, gst etc. Then you have to have a certified accountant to do you books at least once a year as the government wont accept a small business to file the books any other way. I also employ a bookkeeper to keep my accountants bills to a minimum.I also pay monthly for technical programs like all-data and mitchell so my techs have the resourses to repair certain vehicles. Then there is the computer program for the invoicing and the list goes on. So if you think I am making a sh*tload of money, think again. I pay holiday pay for days that the shop doesn't bring in a dime....and still pay tax on it. What abou the time that I spend when I replace a defective part under warranty, and the list goes on. So if your self employed, great, but unless you own a business and employ someone other than yourself you really don't have any idea about costs of running a multi-employee business. Thats not meant to attack anyone but its a fact. When I was an employee, I used to think the owners were raking in the dough, as an owner the view is much different.When I was an employee I used to look forward to my holidays, as an owner I hate the fact I have to pay guys for not working on that day. Big differences...

But IF said apprentice is working on said vehicle, Is he Not making less wage than the Certified Mech? BUT, your still charging the customer the FULL RATE....

I have some really good friends who are Mechanics, and it was my first choice for a career out of high school, I know a bit about the biz too


The apprentice can not usually do the job as fast as the licensed tech, its is the way they balance out. I have not seen too many apprentices that actually make money for their respective shop.

for ~ $100/hr i don't even want an apprentice to pull my truck into the service bay, let alone work on it. if i'm paying top $$$ for a mechanic i want a licenced mechanic working on it.


You certainly have the right to request a fully licensed tech, but how do you expect the apprentice to learn..From a book?? Everybody starts at the beginning in any career and must be allowed to develop. Take this hobby that everybody is on this forum belongs to. How many fish have been lost due to mistakes by beginners, or equipment failure etc. That is why we are here, to learn and hopefully lose less livestock etc. I have read lots of reefkeepng books but until you actually do it you really have no idea. There are lots of different opinions as to what works best as well.

dsaundry, sorry for picking through your post, it was just the most convenient ( being at the end ) and not an attack on you or your post :mrgreen:


I didnt view it as an attack, you agreed with some of what I said..:biggrin:

Come on people, you can b*tch and moan about this industry, but how many people actually go to the manager or owner and complain. It is a well known "Fact" that most people just go somewhere else. I have worked in dealerships, franchises and corporate stores and have seen good and bad in all. That said, I openly admit it isn't a perfect industry, but..name one that is-just one!! When was the last time anybody here sent a letter to their MLA and complained about a community problem or a problem in the country. When was the last time you screamed at a bank for the insane profits they make, let alone the fuel companies for raking us over the coals. It's all well and good to vent on a website, but lets face it, for the most part Canadians are really apethetic. Just look at the elections we hold. We keep voting in the same people over and over hoping that we will see this miracle of a balanced budget and fair tax's for all..need I say more?
I am in my business to make money and not to rip people off. I have bills and mouths to feed as well. Unless you have taken a vow of poverty and if you have reef tanks I would kinda think that isnt the case..well maybe just a little:lol: we are all out to make as much money as we can and providing for our families. If you could work the same career and make 2-3 times more, would you stay where you are or make the move. Plain truth in most industries is money talks and you know the rest.. I don't condone rip off artists in any industry but they do exist.

[banditpowdercoat]

Acctually, I'm Both self Employed AND employed by a company. Powdercoating is my self employment, and theres tens of thousands of dollars in equip there, But yes, wright off-able. and I am employed as an electrician at a Mine in the North West Territories, 3wks on/off. Cant's write those tools off. I know both sides of the coin.

[heyfredyourhat]

This thread has some good stuff in it! I work in a bodyshop/mechanic shop.
One of our techs once told me the origin of the word apprentice, long story short, "ape-rent-is, or ape for rent" They need to learn and any decent shop would glady allow them to learn, but not let work go out their doors unless it is done properly. But shops do get busy, and people do forget.

One thing that bugs me. If the shop charges 3 hours to fix a job that was done in 45 minutes, why should they exploit the techs skills and pull money away from him by only charging 45 minutes or even one hour? Lets take interior handles on chev pickups (pre 2000 i think) an apprentice we had took about 1.5 hours to change it. I do it easily in 15 minutes. Customer would only pay like .5 or even just throw in a donut fund, then i get screwed, but i do like donuts so its not too too bad

A few of the techs i know have well over a 100K in tools. Scanners and diagnostics tools are in the 10K range each. It adds up. If i had to buy all my tools again right now, including my box, i would guess i'd be looking at close to 15K. We always joke around that we can go buy a hammer and a tool belt for 10 bucks at princess auto and build a house!