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View Full Version : Protein Skimmer .. To be or not to be ??


Sam1969
12-30-2008, 02:53 AM
Any thoughts on not using a protein skimmer, just a canister filter with proper media.

I'm currently looking at a fluvol corner setup, problem being that the stand doesnt allow for a sump ( as most corner stands dont ), and I'm completely opposed to a hang on skimmer. So I'm debating a fluvol filter with ammonia media, carbon, Phosphate Remover ,Nitrate Remover and of course bio balls.

Any thoughts ? suggestions ....

Trigger Man
12-30-2008, 02:57 AM
What size of a tank are we talking about (assuming you are looking at a new setup) and how heavy is the bioload?

marie
12-30-2008, 03:05 AM
If you can keep your bioload low and do regular, large water changes there is no reason to have a skimmer. Good flow will become even more important to keep oxygen levels up and to expel co2.

I wouldn't use the bioballs though unless you have no live rock either

Sam1969
12-30-2008, 03:23 AM
tank is 60 gal and will house, about 60 pounds live rock, same for sand, mostly corals but will have 4 sea horse, and possibly some smaller fish in the future.

GreenSpottedPuffer
12-30-2008, 04:37 AM
I tried it...lasted about a month. The tank looked great and corals actually had better color then now but I hated the maintenance and it was only a month! I can't imagine a long term skimmerless tank personally. Just too much work. Its easy in the beginning but over time once the "new and exciting" part wears off, I think it gets harder to keeping doing water changes. I only had two clowns most of that time in the tank and I still had to do water changes every two weeks to keep the nitrates at 0. It was a 68G, so about the same size as your thinking.

I think if you don't mind a lot of extra water changes (which will cost more than a skimmer eventually) then its a cool way to do a tank but if not, don't bother. Find a tank you can fit a sump.

fishytime
12-30-2008, 05:28 PM
Definitely do-able. Dont use bio balls. Use live rock rubble instead. No nitrate sponge. Put a good phosphate remover (rowa or GFO) in a media bag. You can also run carbon this way if you so desire. A sump doesnt have to be huge or fancy. I can be as basic as a small tank big enough to hold a return pump. A custom sized sump designed to fit the inside of the cabinet could be commissioned from a LFS for a couple hundred bucks.

Myka
12-30-2008, 06:23 PM
Any thoughts on not using a protein skimmer, just a canister filter with proper media.

I'm currently looking at a fluvol corner setup, problem being that the stand doesnt allow for a sump ( as most corner stands dont ), and I'm completely opposed to a hang on skimmer. So I'm debating a fluvol filter with ammonia media, carbon, Phosphate Remover ,Nitrate Remover and of course bio balls.

Any thoughts ? suggestions ....

What kind of tank are you setting up? Take bioballs and saltwater, and remove the combination from your head! :p Bioballs are not suitable for reef tanks. In fact, I personally don't think bioballs have a place in any saltwater tank. Maybe if you are setting up a fish only, but even then bioballs are just a nitrate factory. You should not need ammonia media, and nitrate media is only needed in overstocked fish only tanks. It sounds like you're a freshwater import by the medias you've listed? If so, there is a lot of differences in the filtration of freshwater tanks versus saltwater tanks, and a lot of new knowledge in the last 10 years that's for sure! As far as the skimmer goes, I would say that I would only suggest skimmerless to someone who has successfully kept a saltwater aquarium before, and by that I mean learned how to keep a tank "algae free". A skimmer helps HUGELY in this factor, and unless you can keep your tank algae free with a skimmer you have no hope in heck of doing it without one. You can make yourself a nice little algae mess.

GreenSpottedPuffer
12-30-2008, 07:43 PM
What kind of tank are you setting up? Take bioballs and saltwater, and remove the combination from your head! :p Bioballs are not suitable for reef tanks. In fact, I personally don't think bioballs have a place in any saltwater tank. Maybe if you are setting up a fish only, but even then bioballs are just a nitrate factory. You should not need ammonia media, and nitrate media is only needed in overstocked fish only tanks. It sounds like you're a freshwater import by the medias you've listed? If so, there is a lot of differences in the filtration of freshwater tanks versus saltwater tanks, and a lot of new knowledge in the last 10 years that's for sure! As far as the skimmer goes, I would say that I would only suggest skimmerless to someone who has successfully kept a saltwater aquarium before, and by that I mean learned how to keep a tank "algae free". A skimmer helps HUGELY in this factor, and unless you can keep your tank algae free with a skimmer you have no hope in heck of doing it without one. You can make yourself a nice little algae mess.

Bioballs are great in proper FO systems. If you ever want many, many large fish and 0 nitrates, one of the best ways to go is bio balls and a denitrator IME. Bio balls have much better surface area than LR in many cases and are easier to keep clean in a FO tank. They allow a nice open display for large predators and enough surface area for large populations of bacteria to keep up with many large fish. A denitrator will then keep nitrates at 0. If I were to ever set up a shark and ray tank, this is the way I would go for sure. All sand with a few pieces of LR for looks but a sump full of bioballs. Bioballs need a decent amount of flow through them though to keep them "clean".

Sorry off topic...

Myka
12-30-2008, 07:48 PM
Ya, that's pretty much what I said..."maybe in a fish only". They only work well with a good denitrator, and by that I don't mean nitrate media in a filter box, I mean a sulfur denitrator with reactor. I think it was Precision Marine that (used to?) put out a good one.

But ya, how about that skimmer? :D

Sam1969
12-31-2008, 02:21 AM
Thanks for all the input ... think I will move away from the fluval corner tank and find a different one, that I can fit a sump under the stand ...

Thanks again PPL

Myka
12-31-2008, 04:58 PM
Good idea. :)

Rbacchiega
12-31-2008, 05:22 PM
That's a great idea...especially with the prices of those fluval units (I'm assuming you're talking about the venezia or whatever ones...) With that price tag you can usually get a nice size tank drilled with a sump LOL

midgetwaiter
12-31-2008, 06:28 PM
I can get you a sump built for that thing. Send me a pm.

Sam1969
01-02-2009, 03:35 AM
Thanks for all the replies ... and suggestions ...

I decided yesterday to go with a 90 gal with internal overflow and 40 gal sump..
picked it up with a stand for half the price of the fluvol ...
now I need some lights and a protein skimmer so I can get the cycle started ..

anyone got some for sale ???

will post pics later...

lorenz0
01-02-2009, 04:08 AM
Good to hear that you went with a sump and a PS

IMO ever since i started using protien skimmers i have noticed a difference in my tank and wouldn't run a tank without one

Red Deer Reptiles
01-02-2009, 05:25 AM
reef ready tanks with sump. skimmers rule. thats why they make them.check out any good reef tank they have a good skimmer. bio balls. lol you should do some internet resource.good luck.