Hydrometer vs Refractometer

[Hairytank]

Yesterday I bought a Sybon Refractometer at Red Coral and today... I am horrified!
I have been using a Coalife Deep Six Hydrometer and my readings have been between 1.025 to 1.026 and have been so for about 4 months with very little change ever since I bought a Tunae ATO.
I messured the Specific Gravity with the new Sybon, my water tested out at 1.029! :eek: I tested the purified water sample that came with it to ensure it was calibrated correctly at the factory (it was).

Having the SG at this level is not fatal (obviously), but is probably partially responsible for the slower growth of some of the corals. I will lower the SG levels to 1.026 over the period of a week or more.

I find it amazing that there can be a .004 difference between these two instruments.

I would be interested in anyone with similar experiences.

[my2rotties]

I have the exact same hydrometer as you and bought the exact same refractomter as you yesterday as well. My salinity is .004 higher as well. Will be adding fresh water slowly now...

[midgetwaiter]

Double check your refractometer before you make changes. Pure water is NOT a good calibration standard for these things. Read this:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

[fishoholic]

.004 of a difference is normal between a hydrometer and a refractometer. That why refractometers are recommended. A friend of mine's hydrometer was out by .008, that is why hydrometers are not very reliable.

[Red Deer Reptiles]

just a quick note .those refractometers have to be calibrated did you get calibration fluid? you can do it with ro water. we use swc refractometers here. great results.dan

[ElGuappo]

correct me if im wrong as i dont have a refracto and i have used a friends to find out my hydro is out .0015 aprox. but are you not supposed to use distilled water to zero in a refracto?????/

[fishoholic]

correct me if im wrong as i dont have a refracto and i have used a friends to find out my hydro is out .0015 aprox. but are you not supposed to use distilled water to zero in a refracto?????/

Yes, distilled/RO/RODI, is what I've been told to use and RO is what I've used for calibration purposes.

[Red Deer Reptiles]

yes you can use ro water to calibrate remember ro water is at 0 so look in your refractometer if its not at zero adjust the screw to bring it to 0 been doing for 10 years.dan

[Red Deer Reptiles]

we suggest in the future have the store where you buy your refractometer calibrate it for you hope this helps.dan

[JDigital]

Your refracto should have come with calibration fluid, I got mine at Red Coral too, same one, and mine came with it.

[new but handy]

I've got the Sybon refractometer it came with a bottle of ultra pure water for calibration (water-- 0% anything +/- o.o1ppt) It's actually called "ultrapurewater"!
It seems to do the trick, although I've never tested it against anything else

[Hairytank]

Yes, I used the "ultrapure" water to check the calibration and it was right on the money. So, if that (0.0129) is an acurate reading, which I think it is, then I will do some slow changes to the water.

[mark]

seen this poll?

http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=43898&highlight=Refractometer

[mike31154]

I have 3 hydrometers and 1 refractometer. One of the 3 hydros is the type you float in water and the other two are swing arm types. All 3 hydros came with used tanks that I purchased. The 'float in water' hydrometer appears to be more accurate than the two swing arm types and reads favourably when compared to the refractometer. In addition the float hydro has a built in thermometer. One thing to remember about hydrometers is they are not temperature compensated and since they are initially calibrated to read at a certain temperature, if you don't compensate, you will get inaccurate readings. Most refractometers are automatically temperature compensated, you just need to wait a few moments for the fluid to get to the same temperature as the refractometer glass.

I've seen on other boards that some folks recommend calibrating refractometers using a fluid (pinpoint usually) which is at 1.026 specific gravity. The reasoning being that this is where you want your refractometer to be most accurate and if you calibrate at zero, it's not a guarantee that it is accurate at the salinity range we usually check. I asked the question on that board if anyone had calibrated using the 1.026 fluid and then checked the zero with pure water to see if there was any error and never did get a satisfactory response. Personally, I calibrate at zero and have even found that it's almost impossible to see a difference at zero whether I use Vernon tap water or distilled water.

Since getting the refracto, I keep my water at around 1.024 on the refracto scale. I don't worry too much about a point or two difference. But I do make sure that when I perform a water change, the new water is as close as possible to the tank water. I check it two or three times to make sure since I tend to change a lot of water every 20 days or so vice smaller changes more frequently. Other than my fish, cuc, I have an anemone and a number of soft corals as well as a hammer and all the livestock seems fine with this level of salinity.

[midgetwaiter]

.004 of a difference is normal between a hydrometer and a refractometer. That why refractometers are recommended. A friend of mine's hydrometer was out by .008, that is why hydrometers are not very reliable.

Steven Pro did a test a little while back and compared 10 hydrometers he got from people against an electronic salinity probe and a refractometer. He found them to be both precise and accurate. The reason people prefer refractometers it that they are easier to use but this idea that swing arm type hydrometers are no good is a net myth.

Your refracto should have come with calibration fluid, I got mine at Red Coral too, same one, and mine came with it.

All of the refractometers sold recommend calibration with pure water. It doesn't always work right though. Check this out:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php#19




I've seen on other boards that some folks recommend calibrating refractometers using a fluid (pinpoint usually) which is at 1.026 specific gravity. The reasoning being that this is where you want your refractometer to be most accurate and if you calibrate at zero, it's not a guarantee that it is accurate at the salinity range we usually check. I asked the question on that board if anyone had calibrated using the 1.026 fluid and then checked the zero with pure water to see if there was any error and never did get a satisfactory response.

It's quite common actually, you're lucky but it could change over time so keep an eye on it. Usually you end up with the refractometer reading about 1.030 but it's a slope calibration issue and it's really about 1.025. I've won 2 bets on this very subject recently.

[mike31154]

m..waiter, I'm not sure I fully understand your response to my quote? What is 'quite common' and how do you end up with 'the refractometer reading about 1.030...?? Bets on what exactly?

[StirCrazy]

Steven Pro did a test a little while back and compared 10 hydrometers he got from people against an electronic salinity probe and a refractometer. He found them to be both precise and accurate. The reason people prefer refractometers it that they are easier to use but this idea that swing arm type hydrometers are no good is a net myth.




actualy it is not a myth at all, over the years there have been several colections doen and the swing arms only have a 25% accuracy rater from new.

also because of the way they are used they have a tendency to go farther out over time.

out of the 6 swing arms I have only 2 were accurate, I threw the rest out and use the 2 for quick checks and store them with ro water to prevent salt from changing the accuracy.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Double check your refractometer before you make changes. Pure water is NOT a good calibration standard for these things. Read this:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

I read that and he said it is a good standard for initial calabration, but recomends that you check it once and a while against a sea water standard to make sure there were no manufacturing errors.

So basicly if you are using a good, refractometer the pure water is the way to calabrate it. It works for the labs and it will work for us.

If you have a questionable one then check it to make sure it is accurate at your SG

STEVE

[fragNplug]

After reading this i guess its time to get one myself, im scared at what mine really is now.

[Johnny Reefer]

I have both, but haven't used the hydrometer in about 3 years. I always use the refractometer and will continue to do so. But a question comes to mind....if the error of a hydrometer is known, could the hydrometer not still be used and just simply apply the error in calculating the true reading?...or is an error in a hydrometer prone to fluctuate? (This is assuming the instrument is cleaned thoroughly after each use).

Cheers,

[Red Coral Aquariums]

A refractometer is possibly the most important initial piece of testing equipment you can purchase.
We have sold many hydrometers but always recommend the refractometer.

I have found that only approx. 5% of new hydrometers are accurate but once you find out how much they are off they (under proper usage) remain consistent. We test hydrometers going out of our store and they are an average of .04 out but have had numbers of .1.

Kevin

[midgetwaiter]

m..waiter, I'm not sure I fully understand your response to my quote? What is 'quite common' and how do you end up with 'the refractometer reading about 1.030...?? Bets on what exactly?

Erm sorry I was tired when I wrote that. 1) Yes I have found several refracometers that have buggered up when calibrated with RO/DI. 2) More often than not this nature of this mis-calibration has resulted in the refractometer reading 1.026 as 1.030 or there abouts. 3) I have bet 3 people that the problems they were having were the result of an incorrect salinity measurement by their blindly trusted refractometer and have won every time.


I read that and he said it is a good standard for initial calabration, but recomends that you check it once and a while against a sea water standard to make sure there were no manufacturing errors.

So basicly if you are using a good, refractometer the pure water is the way to calabrate it. It works for the labs and it will work for us.

If you have a questionable one then check it to make sure it is accurate at your SG

STEVE

Doesn't "questionable" perfectly describe the situation the original poster finds himself in? He has no way to determine if his refractometer is actually working correctly other than calibrating it with RO. Automatically assuming that the refractometer is correct because "hydrometers are bad" is not sound reasoning.