How many QT new or sick fish for ich?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Over the years I have tried it all...QT everything that goes in the tank from corals to fish to LR...still would get ich. I have tried QTing nothing...of course I got ich. I have tried only QTing new fish for a week to make sure they don't have anything too nasty but if its just a bit of ich, then let them into the display to fight it off...this has worked the best along with heavy feedings three times a day with many vitamins and garlic.

I have found QT to sometimes be way more stressful than letting fish fight off ich. Actually I have had ich in my tanks for a few years now but only ever lost a fish in QT and never in the display. Every fish I have left to fight off ich has made it. So I am wondering what most people are doing? I ask people all the time at my LFS and most say the same thing...no matter what they do, their fish show signs of ich once a month or once a year or today someone told me that after never adding anything new to the tank for two years, ich all of a sudden showed up which I guess means its been there in some form for a while. Just not seen.

As for QTing sick fish, I have stopped unless the ich is out of control. If it does get bad then I do hypo for 2 weeks and put them back to fight the rest off. Hypo has failed me way too many times even when going as low as 1.008 SG for 8 weeks! So I only like hypo to let the fish get "ahead" of the parasites but never again as a long term treatment.

I also kind of wonder how the myth that a fallow tank with have no ich after 6-8 weeks??? I did a search on google scholar a while back and there was a study where ich lived for almost 3 months without a host and then they stopped the study. They don't even know how long that strain was going to make it with NO FISH. So treating for 8 weeks and then putting the fish back in the tank may not do a thing. It will get the numbers of ich way down but not necessarily eliminate it.

I think a lot of people just don't want to admit they let their fish live with ich but in many cases (like mine) other than a few spots every few months, you would never know they have it...no flashing, itching, gasping, ect.

Strong fish, good diet and great water quality=No dead fish IMO.


Whats your opinon/practice when it comes to dealing with ich? I am not looking for advice...just very curious.

[Patrice]

I have no opinion on that because I never have diseases problem. I might be lucky? Anyway, I want to follow that post in case the problem show up one day.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have no opinion on that because I never have diseases problem. I might be lucky? Anyway, I want to follow that post in case the problem show up one day.

Then I guess you do not QT?

I should have started a poll!

What do you do...I am just curious about peoples methods for trying to keep a healthy tank. I assume you look for the healthiest fish and try to keep them happy? Thats kind of my thing now.

[marie]

I quarantine all new fish to make sure there are no problems and is eating.

Imo I don't think ich is all that serious and if the fish is healthy should have no problems shaking it off but there are other more serious things like marine velvet and If a fish insists on dying I would rather they didn't take out the rest of my stock as well

[rocketlily]

I'm tagging along on this one, as at the end of January I will finally be adding fish and really unsure of what to do.

[dstasiuk]

I have no opinion on that because I never have diseases problem. I might be lucky? Anyway, I want to follow that post in case the problem show up one day.


Too cold in Yellowknife for Ich... :lol:

[Keri]

I QT if new - at least 4 weeks usually. Not always in my bare QT tank tho, I QT'd the tang in the 27g FOWLR because I thought he wouldn't be happy in the 10g QT, He was healthy, but if he were not it's a lot easier to catch him in the 27g and pull that apart than the DT! I've had a new fish develop ich (my tiny foxface) and I was able to treat him sucessfully, pulling him out of the DT would have been an incredibly hard thing. I tried to catch my yellow wrasse out of there when he developed a pink patch for a week but was unable, I had to hope for the best and feed him well. (which worked that time but don't always count on it!)

[parkinsn]

Tagging along on this one..... Just started a 20g QT and have yet to put anything in it.

How do people QT live stock that wont or don't eat prepared foods ie. mandarin goby's, or star fish? Or are people just throwing stuff like that in?

[marie]

Tagging along on this one..... Just started a 20g QT and have yet to put anything in it.

How do people QT live stock that wont or don't eat prepared foods ie. mandarin goby's, or star fish? Or are people just throwing stuff like that in?

because I leave my quarantine tank up all the time and I very rarely get new fish I've been using it as a place to store live rock so there is lots of pods and worms in there. The mandarins were only quarantined for a short time and I actually got 2 of them eating mysis shrimp before being added to the display

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah this was the kind of stuff I was interested in.

It really is just curiousity for me. I have found whats working for me and will keeping doing what Im doing but I find it an interesting topic.

I used to stress so much about trying to make sure my tanks were ich free, pull the fish out and QT them, hypo, copper whatever. I lost a lot of fish. I stopped with all that and accepted the fact that my tanks will have ich and focused instead on keeping the fish happy and not one fish has died in that time.

I am by no means saying everyone should have that attitude or that QT is a waste of time but thats just whats working for me.

I do freshwater dips on some fish that are prone to flukes and if I find flukes, I do QT until they are gone. I have had very bad luck dealing with flukes. I find ich a lot more manageable...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Actually something else that has been kind of brought up is quarantine tanks and hospital tanks--different things. My QT tank (rubbermaid) is full of LR, macro algae, crabs, ect. My hospital tank is a different rubbermaid that stays dry in case I need it.

I use 40G rubbermaids since I find them a bit easier to have around than a 40G tank and IMO a 10G is WAY too small to QT most any fish.

I also keep a sponge in my DT sump that can be used in the hospital tank as a filter if needed. If you do this though, make sure you "rinse" out the sponge every now and then (I do it every water change) to make sure it doesn't accumulate detritus and large amounts of bacteria that will lead to high nitrates. You just need it to have enough bacteria to keep a hospital tank cycled...although most meds will kill the filter anyways :neutral:

[Pansy-Paws]

I'm one of those individuals who quarantine everything that is wet. I only have a hospital tank and use it for both quarantine and hospital treatments. It is usually up and running.

My standard quarantine period is 8 weeks for fish, and in that time I do a prophylactic treatment for ick for any tangs (3 weeks with chloroquine phosphate -- I find this much easier on fish than copper or hypo, and it is also highly effective on treating marine velvet -- however, it can be tough to obtain -- it's a human malaria prescription drug), and a 3 hour praziquantel bath for all. If any diseases show up, then other treatment regimes are applied, and the quarantine period is extended.

I have a four foot (72 gallon) tank for this purpose, and use an Aquaclear 110 power filter for biological cycling. A second Aquaclear 110 is running at all times on the display system to keep a filter block seeded. My personal belief is that the biggest killer during quarantine is ammonia spikes, whether because the medication crashed the cycle, or the feeding and defecation rates exceeded the existing cycle's strength.

To counter this, I do a 33% water change every day until I see that the tank has been recycled, and add Amquel+ as needed to detoxify ammonia and nitrite when it's measurable. Through the years, I had a few heartbreaking losses :neutral: before I established this water change regime, sometimes in as short as two days of not keeping a close eye on the ammonia level.

For snails, live rock and such, I use a 4 week quarantine period, in a 10 gallon.

[debbaDEEra]

Our tank has been going since April. We didn't quarantine anything, mostly because the idea of caring for another tank was overwhelming. We have added the fish directly to the tank (after acclimating). The only fish that has ever shown signs of ich is the Potter's Angel. The cleaner shrimp are helping to take care of it. It is not totally gone but very reduced. The angel is very patient and will stay still for quite a while. It's very interesting to watch them do what they are meant to do.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm one of those individuals who quarantine everything that is wet. I only have a hospital tank and use it for both quarantine and hospital treatments. It is usually up and running.

My standard quarantine period is 8 weeks for fish, and in that time I do a prophylactic treatment for ick for any tangs (3 weeks with chloroquine phosphate -- I find this much easier on fish than copper or hypo, and it is also highly effective on treating marine velvet -- however, it can be tough to obtain -- it's a human malaria prescription drug), and a 3 hour praziquantel bath for all. If any diseases show up, then other treatment regimes are applied, and the quarantine period is extended.

I have a four foot (72 gallon) tank for this purpose, and use an Aquaclear 110 power filter for biological cycling. A second Aquaclear 110 is running at all times on the display system to keep a filter block seeded. My personal belief is that the biggest killer during quarantine is ammonia spikes, whether because the medication crashed the cycle, or the feeding and defecation rates exceeded the existing cycle's strength.

To counter this, I do a 33% water change every day until I see that the tank has been recycled, and add Amquel+ as needed to detoxify ammonia and nitrite when it's measurable. Through the years, I had a few heartbreaking losses :neutral: before I established this water change regime, sometimes in as short as two days of not keeping a close eye on the ammonia level.

For snails, live rock and such, I use a 4 week quarantine period, in a 10 gallon.


Sounds exactly like what I used to do. I actually still have some chloroquine phosphate that I obtained from my uncle. I have found it does a good job if the infection is not too bad. Very easy on the fish as you said.

I just don't have the space anymore for a permanent hospital tank and never had an ich free tank even doing what you described. I never QT'd corals though for more than a week or two.

After learning ich can live for up to three months without a host (possibly longer), I am not convinced there are many ich free tanks out there.

IMO, QT should be used to keep parasites to a minimum but you will always have them in the display. They may not show up often but I think they are in most tanks.

I had two fish in QT today but after watching them freak out and curl up in the corner together, I couldnt do it and added them to the display. They were very happy about that.

If I could go back to having a large QT set up all the time in a basement or something I would QT for a while but I just can't have another tank set up in my small condo.

[Patrice]

Then I guess you do not QT?

I should have started a poll!

What do you do...I am just curious about peoples methods for trying to keep a healthy tank. I assume you look for the healthiest fish and try to keep them happy? Thats kind of my thing now.

I get most of my fish when I buy fish for a client. Most of the time, I use my client's tank as a QT for my fish (when it's a new tank). Otherwise, I QT the fish in my little 15 gallons tank.
I get all my fish from a store in Edmonton and can't chose the fish. I am glad they sent me healthy fish.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Our tank has been going since April. We didn't quarantine anything, mostly because the idea of caring for another tank was overwhelming. We have added the fish directly to the tank (after acclimating). The only fish that has ever shown signs of ich is the Potter's Angel. The cleaner shrimp are helping to take care of it. It is not totally gone but very reduced. The angel is very patient and will stay still for quite a while. It's very interesting to watch them do what they are meant to do.

Generally cleaner shrimp cannot remove ich as it is under the skin and the shrimp cannot get to it. The shrimp are most likely just cleaning dead tissue/scales.

[Lance]

I have a 20 gal QT tank that stays up and running with substrate, live rock and a skimmer. All livestock goes in here except for the occasional coral that I get from a reliable source. Fish stay in QT for at least 2 weeks. If they're eating well and looking healthy after 2 weeks, into the DT they go. If they develop a problem I have a 10 gal treatment tank I set up.

[dabandit]

I dont buy sick looking fish and I've never had ick fresh or salt

[StirCrazy]

I have never quarenteened a fish, and have never had Ich in a tank, but I do dip my corals befor I put them in.

Steve

[fishoholic]

I don't QT new fish, I try to buy ones that look healthy and are eating well. I also have a cleaner wrasse that seems to pick off any ich spots my other fish may have.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hmmm...should have started a poll!

Seems like its pretty one sided so far though...most people do not QT new fish.

[marie]

A few years ago I would of been one of most people who never quarantine but after the heartbreak of losing all my fish to marine velvet I'll do everything I can to make sure it doesn't happen again

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

A few years ago I would of been one of most people who never quarantine but after the heartbreak of losing all my fish to marine velvet I'll do everything I can to make sure it doesn't happen again

Yeah I have been there too...velvet kills fast. It almost always is on the fish when you buy them though. Not something that shows up days later usually, IME.

I used to be much more carefree when choosing fish but recently I have done very, very close inspection and made sure they are eating before buying anything. If I am unsure at all, I pass no matter how badly I want the fish. It has been working so far. Probably not adding anymore fish to my tank just to be safe. I feel lucky at this point and don't want to add that one last fish that brings them all down.

[tang daddy]

I have gotten Ich in my reef tank a few times but with pristine conditions the fish never passes it on and they shake it within 3 days max.

My fowler however hasn't had that luck with bigger fish I add, they seem to pass it to the other fish like a marathon runner passing a baton. however If I don't add sick fish, once they are all well no problems.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have gotten Ich in my reef tank a few times but with pristine conditions the fish never passes it on and they shake it within 3 days max.

My fowler however hasn't had that luck with bigger fish I add, they seem to pass it to the other fish like a marathon runner passing a baton. however If I don't add sick fish, once they are all well no problems.

Yeah actually I have noticed the same thing over the years. Is the water quality in the FOWLR as good as the reef? I think most FOWLR's have less than perfect water and that gives the fish less of a chance to stay healthy enough to fight it off.

[Slick Fork]

I quarantine everything and subject it to hypo treatment while in quarantine. I have never seen Ich in my tank, and never lost a fish to disease that another fish brought in. I attribute this to my quarantine practice.

[Patrice]

I also kind of wonder how the myth that a fallow tank with have no ich after 6-8 weeks??? I did a search on google scholar a while back and there was a study where ich lived for almost 3 months without a host and then they stopped the study. They don't even know how long that strain was going to make it with NO FISH. So treating for 8 weeks and then putting the fish back in the tank may not do a thing. It will get the numbers of ich way down but not necessarily eliminate it.

Quarantine can only help. That I am sure. However, what GreenSpottedPuffer said about QT time is interesting. For how long do you QT your fish? If what he said is right, my QT give me nothing.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Quarantine can only help. That I am sure. However, what GreenSpottedPuffer said about QT time is interesting. For how long do you QT your fish? If what he said is right, my QT give me nothing.

Well QT always does something and always helps. My belief is that it gives the fish a chance to get strong and healthy enough not keep ich away.

The point was that if you do a quick search with google scholar, you can find all kinds of studies where ich lived without a host for longer than 6 weeks...in one it was almost 3 months and then they stopped the experiment. So I was saying in that case, your tank may still not be ich free even after going through all the pain of QT for 8 weeks. I hear it quite often..."I had my tank fishless for 8 weeks and I still get ich"...thats because ich can live longer without a host. I am not sure where the 8 week thing came from. I assume most will die after 6-8 weeks without a host.

[my2rotties]

How do we know it does not live inside a fish's stomach much like a tapeworm? Could ick be ingested and lie dormant inside the host to be expelled in feces. I did some research and found nothing to confirm or dismiss the theory. Maybe they attach to food when they are mobile and just wait it out inside the fish. I could explain why it seems to show up for no reason at all sometimes. There are many insect larvae or eggs that can stay dormant for years or decades and appear when conditions are just right.

I'm just grasping at straws and thinking aloud I suppose.

Actually something else that has been kind of brought up is quarantine tanks and hospital tanks--different things. My QT tank (rubbermaid) is full of LR, macro algae, crabs, ect. My hospital tank is a different rubbermaid that stays dry in case I need it.

I use 40G rubbermaids since I find them a bit easier to have around than a 40G tank and IMO a 10G is WAY too small to QT most any fish.

I also keep a sponge in my DT sump that can be used in the hospital tank as a filter if needed. If you do this though, make sure you "rinse" out the sponge every now and then (I do it every water change) to make sure it doesn't accumulate detritus and large amounts of bacteria that will lead to high nitrates. You just need it to have enough bacteria to keep a hospital tank cycled...although most meds will kill the filter anyways :neutral:

Well QT always does something and always helps. My belief is that it gives the fish a chance to get strong and healthy enough not keep ich away.

The point was that if you do a quick search with google scholar, you can find all kinds of studies where ich lived without a host for longer than 6 weeks...in one it was almost 3 months and then they stopped the experiment. So I was saying in that case, your tank may still not be ich free even after going through all the pain of QT for 8 weeks. I hear it quite often..."I had my tank fishless for 8 weeks and I still get ich"...thats because ich can live longer without a host. I am not sure where the 8 week thing came from. I assume most will die after 6-8 weeks without a host.

[Slick Fork]

Could you please point us to where you found the article stating Ich can live without a host for 3 months? Here is what I base my quarantine practices on

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

I like this site because it cites SCIENTIFIC studies from multiple sources. I don't mean to be rude, but "I read somewhere..." just doesn't cut it. Without backup in the form of sources/research, all it is is an opinion. I googled Marine Ich and couldn't find a single site agreeing with your 3 month hypothesis.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Could you please point us to where you found the article stating Ich can live without a host for 3 months? Here is what I base my quarantine practices on

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

I like this site because it cites SCIENTIFIC studies from multiple sources. I don't mean to be rude, but "I read somewhere..." just doesn't cut it. Without backup in the form of sources/research, all it is is an opinion. I googled Marine Ich and couldn't find a single site agreeing with your 3 month hypothesis.

Are you on google scholar? I am not going to go back through the studies I looked at but if you go on RC and ask you will find someone I am sure who can point you to the exact one.

"I don't mean to be rude" but Take it or leave it...I don't care if it cuts it or not for you. Its a study that I believe was done a few years back and that was on of the findings. Think whatever you may, doesn't matter to me.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Actually here is one study about a new strain of ich showing how it can now survive in cold waters. It was found in Japan and is a great example of how adaptable this parasite (like any) can be.

http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/43/d043p211.pdf

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Could you please point us to where you found the article stating Ich can live without a host for 3 months? Here is what I base my quarantine practices on

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

I like this site because it cites SCIENTIFIC studies from multiple sources. I don't mean to be rude, but "I read somewhere..." just doesn't cut it. Without backup in the form of sources/research, all it is is an opinion. I googled Marine Ich and couldn't find a single site agreeing with your 3 month hypothesis.

FWIW, most of this is from the mid 90's. Many new strains of ich have been found since then. And no, I am not going to find you a link to prove that. You can do a search :)

[StirCrazy]

everything I have read said the cyst stage can last from 3 to 28 days, then the rest of the life cycle is measured in hours upto a few days.

to get a Ich free tank you much remove any "host" for a min of 6 weeks and all the ich will have died, then the only way to get it back is to introduce it on a fish.

if you quarenteen for 6 weeks and there is no sign of Ich, then you won't get it.

Steve

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

everything I have read said the cyst stage can last from 3 to 28 days, then the rest of the life cycle is measured in hours upto a few days.

to get a Ich free tank you much remove any "host" for a min of 6 weeks and all the ich will have died, then the only way to get it back is to introduce it on a fish.

if you quarenteen for 6 weeks and there is no sign of Ich, then you won't get it.

Steve

Not true. Ich can live much longer without a host. I will not continue to argue it though, it gets me nowhere. I simply think its good for people to know that not every strain of ich dies off in 6 weeks. I think too many people seem to think there is one single strain of ich that acts/adapts the exact same in every situation. I know someone on RC with the exact study/data but I will have to check with him first if I can use his name. He is a biologist who I trust 100%, not to mention the study was a very well conducted, controlled one tat involved ich. Now the study was not to find out how long ich can live without a host but after almost 3 months fishless and ich still surviving it was an interesting find.

Anyways...saturday night...time to go out!

[marie]

....

Anyways...saturday night...time to go out!

Saturday? did I lose a day somewhere? :lol:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Saturday? did I lose a day somewhere? :lol:


LOL...friday! hahaha

Sorry...I work from home and don't pay that much attention to what day it is I guess!

[StirCrazy]

Not true. Ich can live much longer without a host. I will not continue to argue it though, it gets me nowhere. I simply think its good for people to know that not every strain of ich dies off in 6 weeks. I think too many people seem to think there is one single strain of ich that acts/adapts the exact same in every situation. I know someone on RC with the exact study/data but I will have to check with him first if I can use his name. He is a biologist who I trust 100%, not to mention the study was a very well conducted, controlled one tat involved ich. Now the study was not to find out how long ich can live without a host but after almost 3 months fishless and ich still surviving it was an interesting find.

Anyways...saturday night...time to go out!

just post a link to the thread where he talks about it. I checked 35 webpages, about 1/2 of them from marine biologists and I coulden't find any longer. I remembered hearing about 3 months years ago but that was just some one posting what he did in a thread so I can't back that up.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Don't QT any fish, Ich isn't something I worry about. I've had it twice, 3 days max each time out of close to 10 years of doing this. Now red bugs on corals, that's a different story. Any frag that goes in the tank gets inspected under a dissecting scope, then treated if any bugs are found. If I see any evidence of AEFW, then the frag goes in the garbage.

[Aquattro]

Hmmm...should have started a poll!



Already been done

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34720

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

just post a link to the thread where he talks about it. I checked 35 webpages, about 1/2 of them from marine biologists and I coulden't find any longer. I remembered hearing about 3 months years ago but that was just some one posting what he did in a thread so I can't back that up.

Steve

Marine Biologist generally do not have the answer to this...My older brother is a marine biologist and would know less about ich than we do most likely. Its not something they deal with. I just meant the one who gave the info was one and is well respected. It was not his study though.

Like I said before, Im not going to waste my time looking. If it is important to you go ahead and look. I don't keep links. I have seen the study and IMO it was very well controlled and conducted. I offered the advice and no one wants to believe it (fair enough and I understand...I mean it would not be a good news), to be honest, I don't care. I though it would be nice to share but I actually wish I had just been quiet about it...no I don't have the links/facts but I know what I saw and thought it was good for other to know. When I heard ich can live longer without a host it answered a lot of questions I had and made a lot of sense. I hear too many people QTing for 6-8 weeks and still having ich in the tank. I hypo'd my poor fish for 8 weeks at 1.008 and then kept them in QT for another 3 weeks to make sure the ich was gone. Put them back in the display and added nothing new. Two weeks later they had ich again. You tell me where it came from?!? Two possibilities and both are very possible. Either this strain of ich was able to adjust and live in hypo (very possible) or it lived without a host for 11 weeks in my tank. I went looking for answers on RC and found that study where ich had lived almost 3 months without a host. Made total sense at that point. Not all strains of ich can do this and there are quite a few.

My problem with most of the advice given on all these ich websites/pages like the link above is that its all based on a few studies done in the 90's with little known about the parasite and ONE species of fish. You guys are all over me for proof and that is fair but maybe go ahead and actually look at how that study was conducted. Look at which strain of ich was used and how. It was not the best study to be honest and yet all kind of literature is based on it.

I already did give one link showing how ich has adapted and evolved. Why would it not be evolving? No different from any other parasite...they adapt very well.

Wasn't here for an argument though so I am going to stay away from this...

[Jan]

I don't know if this is the article you were talking about. There is some good info about ICH by someone that has done some research on it.They do say that ICH can survive a long time...months..
I usually quarantine..unless I know the fish is healthy and eating.For me..using a good sized (25 gal) quarantine tank with live rock helps the fish get adjusted to your feeding schedule and foods...as well as seeing if they have any disease.I don't put any sand in. I can remove the rock for treatment if necessary.
If the fish is a finicky eater...it can help you find out what it will eat..you can observe it better and your other fish don't get all the food.



http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I don't know if this is the article you were talking about. There is some good info about ICH by someone that has done some research on it.They do say that ICH can survive a long time...months..
I usually quarantine..unless I know the fish is healthy and eating.For me..using a good sized (25 gal) quarantine tank with live rock helps the fish get adjusted to your feeding schedule and foods...as well as seeing if they have any disease.I don't put any sand in. I can remove the rock for treatment if necessary.
If the fish is a finicky eater...it can help you find out what it will eat..you can observe it better and your other fish don't get all the food.



http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

Along the same lines, yes but not the same one. This one says up to 72 days. The journal I read had ich surviving even longer. I think this is a decent site/page hitting some of the major points of the "ich myths" though. Thanks.

Yes QT is very good still. I have never argued its not :) I have a new fish in QT right now. I still do it but not for ich. I am looking for other things. My fish are all treated with Prazi Pro for a week at minimum.

This was not about QTing in general, just about QTing for ich.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

double post...

[Patrice]

I hear too many people QTing for 6-8 weeks and still having ich in the tank. I hypo'd my poor fish for 8 weeks at 1.008 and then kept them in QT for another 3 weeks to make sure the ich was gone. Put them back in the display and added nothing new. Two weeks later they had ich again. You tell me where it came from?!? Two possibilities and both are very possible. Either this strain of ich was able to adjust and live in hypo (very possible) or it lived without a host for 11 weeks in my tank. I went looking for answers on RC and found that study where ich had lived almost 3 months without a host. Made total sense at that point. Not all strains of ich can do this and there are quite a few.


To me, that's enough to think the article GreenSpottedPuffer found could be right. Maybe not totally right but certainly not totally wrong.
There is lot we don't know so we must not reject a theory just because most say something else (especially when we see exemples like GreenSpottedPuffer showed us above.)


My problem with most of the advice given on all these ich websites/pages like the link above is that its all based on a few studies done in the 90's
That's right for many things. Just take the exemple of fertilizers in freshwater planted tank. Most paper about this are old and not good at all. Most were based on the bellive that po4 was the reason we get algae in planted aquaria. We now know there is nothing as wrong but many still realy on that. When we say this is wrong, they reffer to 100s of article to prove this is right (all from the 80's and 90's).

[StirCrazy]

Marine Biologist generally do not have the answer to this...My older brother is a marine biologist and would know less about ich than we do most likely. Its not something they deal with. I just meant the one who gave the info was one and is well respected. It was not his study though.



hmmm so Erick bornman and Ron Schmek, don't know anything about Ich, man that makes me question there knowledge on corals and inveterate now:mrgreen: just joking.. they are two of the articles I have read.

I am not saying there isn't a variation out there that doesn't live longer, there could be as I said before I hear some one mention one that stays in the cyst stage for up to 3 months, but they are the exception not the norm, or we would be able to find articles on the easy. I know a lot of marine biologist don't know anything about somethings, but generally if the publish a paper it is something they have researched as published papers are subject to peer reviews and they are mad up of peers in the field the paper is on.

heck for all we know people could be calling a fungal infection Ich.

but at any rate depending on the quarantine tank, one of the common recommendations I read last night was to skip it as it can cause more stress and weaken the fishes ability to fight it off themselves.

Also remember if you do quarantine, do one purchase, when you put the fish into the display empty and bleach the quarantine tank so there aren't any cysts left in there, there is a chance that if you just empty and wipe out the tank, put new water in it to age and 3 weeks later you put a new fish in for quarantine then the cysts could hatch and infect your new fish and so one and so one which could cause a reoccurring infection in the tank also.

Steve

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

hmmm so Erick bornman and Ron Schmek, don't know anything about Ich, man that makes me question there knowledge on corals and inveterate now:mrgreen: just joking.. they are two of the articles I have read.

I am not saying there isn't a variation out there that doesn't live longer, there could be as I said before I hear some one mention one that stays in the cyst stage for up to 3 months, but they are the exception not the norm, or we would be able to find articles on the easy. I know a lot of marine biologist don't know anything about somethings, but generally if the publish a paper it is something they have researched as published papers are subject to peer reviews and they are mad up of peers in the field the paper is on.

heck for all we know people could be calling a fungal infection Ich.

but at any rate depending on the quarantine tank, one of the common recommendations I read last night was to skip it as it can cause more stress and weaken the fishes ability to fight it off themselves.

Also remember if you do quarantine, do one purchase, when you put the fish into the display empty and bleach the quarantine tank so there aren't any cysts left in there, there is a chance that if you just empty and wipe out the tank, put new water in it to age and 3 weeks later you put a new fish in for quarantine then the cysts could hatch and infect your new fish and so one and so one which could cause a reoccurring infection in the tank also.

Steve

LOL...you know what I mean about the marine biologists though. A majority do not ever come in contact with ich because a majority do not specialize in home aquaria and there is not an ich problem in the ocean. I asked my brother once who out of his colleagues and friends I can ask about marine ich because they are all biologists like him and he couldn't name one. Anyways thats not the point and the two names you dropped obviously know their stuff :)

I was careful to try to say ich "CAN" survive much longer than previously thought, not that it will. I have a pretty good feeling the ich I had/have is not the same as most strains I have been able to rid in the past. It was just something to bring up as a warning that while an ich free tank is indeed possible, there is not ever going to be a surefire way to obtain that. There are just too may variables. There are ways to give yourself a good chance of having an ich free tank though and if people believe thats the way to go, I think they should. I just do not. I know what article you read about QT being more stressful than good on many fish and the opinion was to skip it...I am starting to agree more and more with this. But I am certainly not the kind of person to tell people what to do, thats just not me...I think people need to do what they feel is best after doing enough research.

My idea of this thread was to get as many opinions/ideas for successfully keeping fish, QT or not. I didn't want to make this big debate or struggle to disprove peoples advice or opinions (not that you are doing that). I just thought that new ideas/views would be nice to hear. I am very, very open at this point to new ideas. I have changed my QT practices DRASTICALLY from years past and am having much better success without much QT now. I have learned that fish really can fight off ich well if they are in pristine water conditions and feed very well and often. I also have much better equipment now which has allowed me to feed heavily three times a day while keeping nitrates pegged at 0. I can't do that for a month in QT. I feed every two days in QT and nitrates are more like 20. I feel fish have a better chance without the stress. JMO though ;)