This has been a real bad *$#%ing day - warning pics are not good natured

[Chin_Lee]

Warning - crappy picture below
So I shut down my 300g cube about 2 weeks ago; I had put all my fish into the sump and I placed all the rocks into a big barrel with heater and pumps. All the fish were happy and acclimatized to their new tank very well (to all the tang police out there - my sump is a 180g sump so don't start with me about no tangs in sumps)

For the last couple of days there were probably some die-offs on the rocks cuz its been smelling kinda bad and I decided to do a water change to the big barrel of cooking rocks. I wanted to put a skimmer into the barrel and needed some extra room so I decided to put 2x 8" pieces of rocks from the barrel into the sump. Two hours went by and I went down to feed the fish and I find a dead Flame angel. The Red Sea Regal Angel and 6" Queen angel were on their sides breathing heavily. Not good signs obviously so I quickly removed the two pieces of live rock, and literally dumped in 2 liters of carbon into the sump. Hoping that would absorb any toxicity I had hoped my only casualty was the flame angel.

I just came home from a dinner and i find this:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/chin_lee/IMG_2876.jpg

Regal Angel - DOA
Lubbock Fairy wrasse -DOA
6" Powder blud tang - DOA
Queen Angel - still breathing heavily
6" Emporer angel - time of death 2225 hrs 2008-12-07
plus the flame angel already DOA and been taken out

So not sure whats going on but in the same sump included the following fishes which are well and swimming around:
7" Majestic angel
4" Yellow tang
8" sailfin tang
3.5" Goldflake
2 bangaii cardinals
4" orange spotted rabbit fish
4" purple tang

The sump water is being pumped up to my 165g LPS tank with another wack load of fish and that tank didn't have any casualties either. I'm really hoping the Queen and Emperor angels make it but only time will tell right now.

I've been planning on building a 9 foot tank for my FOWLR tank once i move out the 300g cube but I'm starting to wonder if I should just stick with the 165g LPS tank with my sump. I'll see what other fishes die and which ones make it but it has not been a good day nevetheless.

[michika]

:(

I feel for you.

[Keri]

Oh nooo!!! I'm so sorry, I can't immagine what would come off of those 2 rocks that would be THAT toxic that it could nuke 180 + 165g of water!

That's horrible :sad:

[fdiddy]

:frown: that about sums it up. I couldn't imagine.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

UGH. Not one person on this board that doesn't feel your pain right now. I hope you get it sorted out so your other fish continue to survive.

[Pan]

Holy ****! I'm so sorry...I lost one fish recently...I feel for you. I hope all goes okay from now on.

[Lance]

Holy Crap! I feel for you Chin. What could be so toxic on those rocks to kill so quickly in a large volume of water?

[Trigger Man]

Damn sorry to hear, hopefully the worse is over and the two angels recover.

[superduperwesman]

Dang... sorry to hear that

[robert J]

Oh nooo .... my heart felt condolences to you ... :sad:

[truperc]

Sorry!!!! I hope you are able to save the rest of them

[Delphinus]

Oh My God. :(

[Jason McK]

Oh Man I'm so sorry, Anything I can do just let me know.

J

[cprowler]

That F'n sucks.....I feel for you.

[fishytime]

Sorry man. But wtf happened:question:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Man I am so sorry to hear this horrible news. I really hope the other pull through. I feel so bad for you and the fish :cry:

[Delphinus]

What could be so toxic so quickly? When I've had massive fish die-offs it was usually coincidented with moving my ritteri, so I assumed it was shed nematocysts that caused the fish to suffocate.

Anyhow the point being that it seems to me that suffocation seems to be a likely cause for rapid onset, multiple deaths.

In this case, we're talking a few hours after adding a few rocks to a large water volume so I would guess it not to be an ammonia cycle. You mentioned there was a smell to the rocks - I wonder if it could be H2S. It would fit the profile of suffocation.

Anyhow I'm sorry if you're not ready to speculate on causes - I can only imagine what you're feeling right now - I'm so sorry. :(

[Chin_Lee]

Crappy - the emperor just bit the dust....... queen is still hanging on huffing and puffing away......... RIP

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Crappy - the emperor just bit the dust....... queen is still hanging on huffing and puffing away......... RIP

My initial thought was along the lines of what Tony's thinking. I know you've probably already done this, but are you aerating the %@#$ out of the water? It seems the fish most susceptible to low oxygen levels have died first.

[Chin_Lee]

Tony how does H2S kill? weird thing is the output of my reeflo orca skimmer into the sump is where most of the deaths occurred.

[niloc16]

REALLY sorry to hear about that. i can sense your frustration in your post. too bad man.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Oops. Sorry...wrong copy/paste :(

[Delphinus]

H2S is only a wild guess on my part but here are the main things about it:
1) You can smell it in little as 1ppm air.
2) At 10ppm in a work environment is enough that you should not be exposed to it for more than 10 minutes for every 8 hours. (something like that anyhow)
3) 1000ppm is pretty much instant death.
Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is a good example of an acutely toxic substance which is immediately lethal at relatively low concentrations. Exposure to a concentration of only 300 PPM (parts per million) for a period of 30 minutes is enough to render a worker unconscious. Exposure to a 1,000 PPM concentration of H2S in air produces rapid paralysis of the respiratory system, cardiac arrest, and death within minutes.
(From http://www.brandtinst.com/biosystems/appnotes/perilsof.htm (http://www.brandtinst.com/biosystems/appnotes/perilsof.htm))

4) We know H2S is produced in anaerobic situations. Perhaps there was some die off in the curing bucket of something and the rot was releasing H2S.

The only other things I can think of:
1) "cuke nuke" - maybe a cucumber was in one of the rocks, and died, releasing whatever neurotoxins they have (some of them have?) ..
2) rapid proliferation of some kind of rot causing the saturated O2 levels of the water to be depleted rapidly?

[EmilyB]

:cry:

[moldrik]

Holy crap, that really sucks. I'm sorry to hear about this.
________
jugalettes (http://juggalos.org)

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Dang it Chin, that sucks. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know. Anthony

[bv_reefer]

man that really sucks chin! :sad: no one should have to come home to that, very sorry to hear. i really hope you find out what happened and save any remaining fish

[Veng68]

Sorry to hear about your lose Chin.

No worries about the glass....... still looking for the 1/2 inch so I have not ordered it. But if you decide not to do through with the tank build........ that's cool also.

Cheers,
Vic

[justinl]

Oh man Chin, that sucks. imo the H2S thing sounds like a shot in the dark but really may be it. Did you get the smell of rotten eggs at all? if so, H2S; if not, start looking in another direction :question: I find it really odd that the deaths were localized... check for mechanical problems like equipment. Do the fish have any signs of physical trauma other than flared gills? again, my condolences, hope the rest pull through.

[reeferious]

something rotten got stuck inside your pump causing it ti spew poisonous hydrogen sulfide into your sump. anyway hope you overcome this and carry on with your tank build.

[TheRealBigAL]

Sorry for your loss

[christyf5]

Just caught this thread. Chin that totally sucks. Aeration, waterchanges and carbon are about the best you can do for H2S. :neutral:

[fishoholic]

How horrible! :cry: Sending *hugs* to you.

[andestang]

Sadness goes out to the fish :(

[Oxymoron]

My condolences. I can imagine the frustration.
I work with H2S on a regular basis, It will have a rotten egg smell that will be very prominent. You will be able to smell this for even several days after a h2s release in very small (1 part per million is detected by the human nose) amounts.
It will also be heavier then air and will be released with agitation. If the water doesn't smell like rotten eggs at a source of agitation, ie a returm pump or power head agitating the surface, then it doesn't sound to be h2s imho. Especially if the release of h2s into the water supply was only yesterday.
Hope this helps.

[Skimmerking]

i had the same thing happen to me on my mixed 62 gal the cuke caught killed in my powerhead it was a black one and instant seath to my tank.. that could be it chin

[Marlin65]

Damm that sucks sorry to hear it.

[Chin_Lee]

The queen angel is still alive this morning so i'm crossing my fingers it will pull through. Still lying to one side but still breathing.

From all accounts, i believe it is h2s poisoning. The bucket of rocks were smelling like rotten eggs which was why I wanted to do the water change. Two pieces of rocks in 300g of water was all it took to kill off five fishes. Seems very localized in that the side of the sump that the rocks were in killed 4 fishes. 8 years in this hobby and I didn't even know about this h2s poisoning so folks, learn from my mistake -
DON'T PUT ROTTEN EGG SMELLING ROCKS INTO YOUR TANKS NO MATTER
HOW MUCH WATER FLOW OR HOW BIG OF A SKIMMER YOU GOT

[Trigger Man]

Good lesson to learn, sorry you had to be the one to have gone through it for the rest of us to now understand what symptoms to look for. Hope the Queen pulls through.

[Chowder]

Chin just read this tread. Sorry to hear about your losses. That truley sucks....

Chris

[tang daddy]

Holy I just read this post Chin, I am really sorry to hear this it's very heart breaking to read about the massive fish death hope everything gets well soon.

[Chin_Lee]

Long live the Queen ......... well the Queen angel anyhow. After about 24 hours of heavy breathing, listlessness and lying on the floor of the tank, he started swimming around looking for food. I have no doubt it was h2s poisoning at this point and I'm very lucky my queen made it through. RIP to those that didn't make it.

[Doug]

Sorry about your losses Chin. Hopefully the rest are all fine.

[fishoholic]

Long live the Queen ......... well the Queen angel anyhow. After about 24 hours of heavy breathing, listlessness and lying on the floor of the tank, he started swimming around looking for food. I have no doubt it was h2s poisoning at this point and I'm very lucky my queen made it through. RIP to those that didn't make it.

Glad to hear you queen's ok.

[MikeP]

Sorry to hear about all of this, I'm glad your Queen is okay but everything else about it sucks. :(

[Tom R]

Hi Chin

I just read your thread.

I am so sorry.

We become so attached.

Is there anything I can do to help?

Tom R

[Jay180reef]

Sorry to hear about your loss :(

[Chin_Lee]

AHHHHHHHH CRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!
Just lost my Majestic and MY GOLDFLAKE. :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: :cry:
Queen angel is lying on its side again and breathing heavily again. This really leaves me 5 fish from my 300g tank. I've just lost all interest in setting up another tank to replace my 300g.

[Delphinus]

What ??? Oh man I'm so sorry Chin. :cry: ..

[my2rotties]

I am so very sorry for your losses, I don't even know what to say.

[tikkle]

Happened to me once. That's really suck! Sorry about your loss.

[rockworm]

Chin, I am so sorry to hear about your tank. I recently had an outbreak of ich and lost 2 banner fish, 3 semilarvartus butterflys, potters angel, powder brown and flame angel. I feel your pain. I have saved a few that are in QT with cupramine, including Blue Face Angel, Vlamingi, Magnificent Fox Face and Marine Betta. Nothing is going in my FO until February. Last night I found red bugs in my coral system. It is tough to keep going. I would encourage you to hang in there.

[Jason McK]

Oh Crap Chin, So Sorry to hear.

J

[Parker]

Damn, sorry to hear that. I was hoping things were improving.

[Snappy]

OUCH!!! Sorry for your losses Chin.

[workn2hard2day]

Don't know what to say other than really sorry for your loss. Hang in there it will get better.

[BC564]

Just read your post....sorry to here about your fish and the struggle your going through now....

So was it H2S poisioning ......or something else......did you remove those 2 pieces of rocks out of the tank as soon as you thought it was H2S related? If so....then what caused the last two deaths?

Just wondering whats up.

[Leah]

So Sorry, You are not alone this has been disaster week for me to. I really can't even
talk about it. I feel utterly beside myself. I keep thinking I will wake up and it will have
just been a bad!#!*nightmare!

[Trigger Man]

Here I thought the worse was over, but then I clicked on the post and you were amassing more losses. The only thing I can think of is that the h2s posioning took out your benificial bacteria, how are the water parameters looking? You were still running large amounts of carbon so it should not have been anything else toxic. Maybe a bacteria that was able to spread with the fish stressed from being moved, and with the additon of h2s it was able to attack their weaken immune systems. I am sorry to hear that it has not gotten better, and it's always worse not being able to figure out the cause, hopefully you'll be able to stick in there and continue being in this hobby.