I'm Back (27gal build)

[StirCrazy]

in the hobby that is, well never left fish, just saltwater for a bit.

anyways look what showed up in the garage today

http://members.shaw.ca/s.l.s/newreef/tanks1.jpg


My intention with this build (as the build is my faviorit part :mrgreen:) is to thouraly document it on line.

I want to do a proper money smart build, with out compromizing to see how cheep you can set up a proper reef system with a sump.

I will even put up some of my thought process to show reasoning on why I chose specific options.

by doing this I home to come up with a thread that new reefers can read through to help them decide on which way to go.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Ok so a little starting info for this thread.

for the people who don't know me I am probably the king of waisting money on lights to find something that works :mrgreen:

I spent 15K setting up my 90 reef and about 8k of it was on different lighting as at the time lighting was still the great big mystery.

this pic was the start of a running system, I bult pretty much everything except the tanks

http://members.shaw.ca/cyltic/rock/july11/whole.jpg

this tank I see is for sale on the board now by the guy who bought it from me, if some one is interested I have the stand still.

anyways the new tank is going to be much smaller, I picked up two 27 gal tank (30L x 12w x 18t)
the reason for the smaller tank is I am able to retire this summer and most likely will be moving to Kamloops. once I am established there, I will be doing a much bigger tank.

the objective of this tank will be mostly SPS. I will also have zoo's and maybe a few other things.

I am toying with lights right now, I know I want MH and something for actinic weather it be VHO or T5's. I don't want a fancy fixture as I feel they are way over priced for what they are and I will be building a hood when I build the stand.

I will be getting a deicent skimmer, I could build my own (which I have one 1/2 built already but it is way to big for this project) so I am thinking about one of the lower priced brands that preform well.

I am also toying with spending the money on a proflux 2 and balling pump set up. my reasoning behind this is simple. space and ease. while I could finnish off the Ca and Kalk reactor in the garage in a day, they would make my space requirment for the stand much larger and would add two more pumps and heat.

[Myka]

as the build is my faviorit part :mrgreen:

Want to come build mine? I don't like the build part at all. Once it's ready for water, I'm all in though! :D

I really like that 90 you built! This new project looks like a good start too. :)

[StirCrazy]

my other justification for the proflux is that I would be able to use it on the larger tank when I move.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Want to come build mine? I don't like the build part at all. Once it's ready for water, I'm all in though! :D

I really like that 90 you built! This new project looks like a good start too. :)

thanks, here was another one of the systems I built

http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/pool/setup.jpg

this was my holding pen for about a month while I moved :mrgreen:

Steve

[Keri]

That's as beautiful stand on the 90g and ingenious use of a kiddie pool! Welcome back :)

[AJ_77]

You're going to pick ONE lighting system, and stick with it?

I'm speechless. :mrgreen:



(is that your old tank for sale in kelowna?)

[Johnny Reefer]

.....
anyways look what showed up in the garage today....
Santa must be starting his rehearse runs. Good to see you back Steve.

[StirCrazy]

You're going to pick ONE lighting system, and stick with it?

I'm speechless. :mrgreen:



(is that your old tank for sale in kelowna?)

funny guy :mrgreen: nope, my old tank is for sale here in victoria, was posted a couple weeks ago but the guy didn't get the stand as he couldn't get it into where he was going to put the tank.

Steve

[superduperwesman]

thanks, here was another one of the systems I built

http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/pool/setup.jpg

this was my holding pen for about a month while I moved :mrgreen:

Steve

ahaha Nice! How did you kids feel about this??

[Oxymoron]

Great to see Stircrazy. I'll be watching this one closely for ideas and tips:)

[StirCrazy]

ahaha Nice! How did you kids feel about this??

they got the pool when I was done, so good I guess :mrgreen:

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Ok, so things I am pondering right now are

1) stand design.
I am thinking for this one of taking an idea from my entertainment center, so the stand to hold the tank and sump, with a tower on each side to house top off weater, electronics, equipment, top off water ect..
then over the tank and inbetween the towers would be the lighting.

so something like this but with more doors
http://www.thebrick.com/Application/Cart/BuyRoom.asp?TraderID=34DC92B9-3DBD-438F-AA0B-BD0F699D5896&Code=526PK4&ProductID=B961D7FB-E1B4-4D7D-AEFB-51B3A4467EFF&Code=73D72728-F8F0-4748-8016-E3362EFE184E&SellOrderId=73D72728-F8F0-4748-8016-E3362EFE184E&CategoryID=3B1957DE-C68B-439E-B428-7746DE483D3E&SiteCode=EN&CategoryTracking=05D518AF%2D40B4%2D4A1B%2D960B%2DF 9387FEE19FC%2C1CB41563%2D28A2%2D4C49%2D8580%2D9338 186A1133%2C3B1957DE%2DC68B%2D439E%2DB428%2D7746DE4 83D3E

2) Lighting
I want MH, there was a post on some on the boar but it was for two and I don't realy need two for this tank so I am not sure about them.

I am thinking a DE 250 pendant or maybe a bare reflector, and two T5 Actinics. I just ordered two sets of water proof stand offs and endcaps for thoes and I have a WH7 ballast or two in the garage.. so that part is easy. Anyone have a single 250 watt DE setup for sale at a good price?

3) skimmers
Just took care of this one.... its a surprise

4) flow
this is a big one for me as I have learned through experance that flow is perhaps more important that lighting. in my 90 I had about 133X turnover flow rate, in this tank I want to be between 80 to 100X turnover, but I am only going to supply about 20X with the sump return pump.

So in this area a small tank is actualy harder as you have to find the nice flow with out striping the skin off your coral. Also I have to find something that won't take over the tank due to its size.

5) substrate
no sand, to many problems involved in it. I am beterrn a few options right now, bare bottom, marble, or slate.

6) and finaly.. the overflow system on the tank.
I am thinking external overflow with a herbie setup. I want this quiet, and I don't want a box inside the tank takeing up what little room there is.

So I am going to notch the back of the tank and silicone a overflow box to the back of the tank that is drilled for 3/4" bulkheads.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

One thing I forgot to mention. for stuff like skimmers and such. Normally I would build my own and it was hard to resist not building one for this tank, as I have an idea I want to try, but my goal for this tank is to only build the stand and some of the lighting, ect the normal stuff you see people doing. Also building a skimmer at this point in time would be hard as I can't move in my garage again.. going to have to clean it up some more so I can build the stand though. :cry:

I am hoping to get a realistic cost for some one to set up a medium sized system.

[Canadian]

Steve,

I might have a modified Tunze 6025 pushing around 1100-1200 GPH that I'm getting rid of. The motor block is broken so I'm sending it in to be replaced by Tunze. I had 2 modified 6025's in my 30g but I just bought a Vortech MP20 so now I intend to just use one modified 6025 and the MP20 and will put the replacement one up for sale.

Let me know if you're interested.

[StirCrazy]

Canadian, when you get it in let me know.

Ok so like I said the skimmer was a surprise, well today is the surprise day.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/s.l.s/newreef/moretoys.jpg

I went with the vertex after reading a tone of reviews. Original I was going to go with a PM recirculating skimmer, but then as I thought about it that would need two pumps, one for the needle wheel and another for the feed. I bounced this around in my head for a while and decided that is just another addition of heat which I don't need. I am trying to minimize pumps on this one so I can go more power on the lights. I also picked up some water proof T5 end caps and standoffs for the hood, I already have a ballast that will drive them so my Actinic lighting is taken care of now.

Does anyone have a single 250 watt HQI set up (either DE or SE) that they want to part with cheep? :mrgreen:

Steve

[Canadian]

Steve,

I'm home now.

[StirCrazy]

Ok, so I wanted to keep a running budgit for this tank so I will do cost updates once and a while

1) two 27 gal tanks 75.00
2) Vertex 100 skimmer 244.00
3) water proof endcap sets for T5s 28.00


Steve

[Skimmerking]

Welcome Back STeve looks great so far.

[StirCrazy]

Thanks, feels good to be back.

Ok, decision time. How am I going to maintain my chemical levels in my water.

two options.

1) Ca reactor, cheapest one I found was at J&Ls for 450ish plus I would need a pump so 50ish well say. now media 20ish (say x3 for the year) and a fill on the tank 15ish

total is 575.00ish

2) Proflux plus II balling kit. maintains all levels and this kit should last more than a year. monitors temp, PH

total 699.00 with our crappy buck.

now to make this a fair comparison I would have to add to option 1, for the PH and temp so 170.00 will get me a pinpoint PH and temp. so the real price of number 1 is now 745.00 and I haven't even gotten into Kalk reactors yet.

To tell the truth I am leaning to-wards Proflux, but I am just waiting for Aqua Digital to answer a few question about there "package kits" as there are a couple more options I would like.

I will let you know what I am thinking here so if I am nuts you can tell me.

I was wanting the Proflux unit to also come with the level controllers and the pump unit to be a 4 pump unit instead of a 3 so I can use one pump for top off. I would also like salinity and redox monitoring (but I can live with out this one for now) and a digital power bar so the proflux can control my lights.

So I am basically waiting to see if the packages can be customized.

Steve

[Aquattro]

I will let you know what I am thinking here so if I am nuts you can tell me.


Nuts has my vote....

[Skimmerking]

PM ya with a option if you are interested Steve.

[StirCrazy]

Ok ok, I guess I better explain something here before I am flooded with PM's.

As far as skimmers, Ca reactors, Kalk reactors go, I either have all the parts sitting in the garage, or I have them almost built.

I do have a complete Co2 reactor set up ready to go, but I am not going to use it on this tank. I want to use the Co2 tank on my fresh water setup, and I actually think the balling is a better method the more I read about it.

and finally the point of this build for me was to get an actual estimate of what it would take to set up a tank for a person who is new and realy has no DIY skill or contacts. Sure I could sit and wait for deals all year, but my rules for myself are, I will buy a used unit only if it is advertised when I am ready to purchase. ( I am going to cheat and build the stand though as I have a spicific thing in mind for this tank that you can buy in stores) but so many people have wood working skills this might be realistic anyways.

So there were no used skimmers listed the other day, and I don't want to build one (garage is to messy) so I bought a new one. another example, I decided to look for a power head last week, I looked on the board and found a used 6060 tunze with a magnet.. I called the guy and am picking it up. If I looked for a couple of days and there wasn't any new ones, I would have boughten a new one. So I am kinda employing a tempered impulse buying habit here.

Lights are the only thing that are driving me nuts with these rules as I am to damn picky in my lighting.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Nuts has my vote....

Hmm... this is comming from some one who is squirting about 5 different solutions into his tank a few times a day for the last couple months and for what? ;)

Steve

[Aquattro]

Hmm... this is comming from some one who is squirting about 5 different solutions into his tank a few times a day for the last couple months and for what? ;)

Steve
No, no, no, it's some every day, some twice a day, others every other day, with shaking in between, so, uh, ya.....point taken :)

[StirCrazy]

Ok, so on with the build. I wanted a sump system as a 27 gal is kinda small and I want all the space I can get in the tank for rock and critters. On the same line I don't want a overflow taking up some of the space either so I am doing an external overflow. The only problem with this is I have to trip some of the back of the tank away.

So after reading the trials and tribulations of the Calgary crew with cutting glass, I went to pick up the dremmel bit they say is good...

Let me tell you it sucks the big one.. after 10 min I cut about 3mm.. so into the garbage with that idea.

so I decided to do it old school.

this is the prep work, removing the trim and silicone
http://www.members.shaw.ca/s.l.s/newreef/glasswork/trimgone.jpg

then I got out the new and improved better than sliced bread glass cutter

http://www.members.shaw.ca/s.l.s/newreef/glasswork/cutter.jpg

Oh almost for got, I first tried to cut the trim with a exacto knife... don't try this.. I spent the next 10 min trying to stop the bleading and trying to decide if I needed to go get stiches or not. I was mad so I grabbed the dremel with the grout bit and bam ready to remove a chunk of trim.

so then i used a felt and drew my cut out area (lot of good this did I didn't stay on the line anyways) and scribed close to the line with the glass cutter.

here is the result befor cleaning up the cut.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/s.l.s/newreef/glasswork/finnished.jpg

I did find something that the diamond dremmel bit I bought was good for, smoothing out the edges.. I got about 10 min of smoothing in and I figure another 10 or 15 min and I will be good to go.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

I am moving on to lighting now, I had already decided to go MH and T5, but what kind of MH. SE throw out a lot more light than DEs do, when both run on a HQI ballast, but I have the problem if a narrow tank. I am thinking of only using one bulb in a pendant and mount it to the top of my hood so there is room for the T5s and to allow the pendant to cool properly. so I have to look at something that will be small enough to fit on the hood in a manor that will give me the best light spread.

so for position I am thinking the bulb should run front to back. now a SE reflector is longer than the hood will be deep so I could go with something like a Lumenmax 2 reflector SE and have 4 inches hanging off the back of the hood, or I could go with a reef optrix 3 DE and have it sit centered perfectly.

I am one who will always pick more intensity, but in this case I am letting looks win. The tank is only 18" tall so the intensity of the DE will be enough and the size will make it simple to mount to the hood.

I was going to put two pendants in the hood, but never got a reply about some questions from the guy who is selling them, so I will buy new ones so I get exactly what I am looking for.

Steve

[Canadian]

If you're willing to go with DE then take a look at the new Lumenarc Nano pendant (10" square):

http://www.reefbuilders.com/2008/10/14/lumenarc-nano-pendant-makes-the-lumenarc-mini-look-fat/

[StirCrazy]

hmm, it isn't released yet, and is only 1" smaller than ther eother ones.. but I will ask about it.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Ok, so another day another few hundred bucks :mrgreen:

I ordered a tunze nano, some silicone (black and clear) some 3/4" bulkheads, a filter sock, and a fragging kit (needed to get over that 150 for the free calender :mrgreen:

I also picked up a used tunze 6060 tonight.

I ordered the glass to build my overflow, thats probably going to come to about 30 bucks as it is getting 3 holes drilled in the bottom.

so new running total
1) two 27 gal tanks 75.00
2) Vertex 100 skimmer 244.00
3) water proof endcap sets for T5s 28.00
4) 3, 3/4" bulhead kits, tunze nano, two tubes of silicone, fragging kit, and filter sock 220.00
5)used 6060 tunze with magnetic holderr 80.00
6) glass for sump 30.00ish
7) calander FREE :mrgreen:
8 Dremmel bit 11.00

I did look at some lights today, still not sure which way I am going to go.. weather it be DE or SE.

Steve

[argan]

How is the house hunting in kamloops going? or are you going to set this tank up in Victoria?

[StirCrazy]

How is the house hunting in kamloops going? or are you going to set this tank up in Victoria?

I am building it here, don't know if it will be set up here or not.

We are keeping an eye on the market up there, won't be serious till we hear when the wife is getting her transfer.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Ok, so new input needed. I am trying to figure out what return pump to go with but here are my requirements.

1) Has to be real quiet (I have used mag drives and Mark4's before and they are not quiet enough.

2) Has to be an external pump (want to minimize heat transfer to the tank)

3) I want about 600gph flow at 5 feet of head.

another option I was thinking about was selling my brand new tunze nano and the used tunze 6060 and getting a reeflow pump. the problem is they put out about 2400 gph so I figured I could drill the tank with about 3 bulkheads on each end and use adjustable nozzles to create my flow in the tank, but then I woke up and realized that my three 3/4" bulkheads would never handle this kind of flow.. I was all excited for a minit or 400 and was ready to run down and buy a diamond hole saw for 1.5" and 1/2" bulkheads. :redface: so back to the original idea .

Steve

[JDigital]

You could always run a Reeflo Snapper and just dial it down... They are adjustable down to 350gph.. Super quiet, external, Great pumps... What more could you ask for.. :lol:

[Mrfish55]

Did you figure out lights? I have a used 250w single end retrofit unit and also a old but never used Dupla 2X250w double end I would be willing to part with. Also a 2x55w PC retrofit unit. Let me know, cheers.

[Canadian]

Eheim 1260 or 1262 - probably more like the 1262 if you want 600 GPH but based on all reports on the 1260 and 1262 they run considerably stronger than other pumps that are supposed to produce the same output at the same head pressure.

Here are the performance curves for the 1260 and 1262:
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idProduct=EH1046&style=1262%20(900%20gph)&child=EH1262&IdCategory=FIWPSBFT&category=500_to_1000_GPH-Submersible-Water_Pumps-Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies&tab=1

Cheaper than a Snapper, draws fewer watts, smaller foot print, is German made, and meets your criteria without being excessively oversized and wasting money having to dial it down.

[StirCrazy]

You could always run a Reeflo Snapper and just dial it down... They are adjustable down to 350gph.. Super quiet, external, Great pumps... What more could you ask for.. :lol:

How do you adjust them down?

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Cheaper than a Snapper, draws fewer watts, smaller foot print, is German made, and meets your criteria without being excessively oversized and wasting money having to dial it down.

they are an expensive pump for what your getting though. You guys got to stop telling me german made, I am german and I tend to stay way from german made stuff. doesn't mean good quality because it is german made.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Has anyone tried a "quiet one pump" they have some that are right where I want and at a very good price, but what is there longevity like?

Steve

[banditpowdercoat]

I have a quiet one 3000 in my overflow running closed loop. It's pretty quiet. A little vibration noise form hittng the side of t5he overflow. But can only hear it if I shut my MAG350 sump return off LOLIm not buying the MAG series any more. If I need a Mag drive pump, QuietOne it is. Been running for almost a year now no troubles.

[parkinsn]

Has anyone tried a "quiet one pump" they have some that are right where I want and at a very good price, but what is there longevity like?

Steve

I have a friend running the quiet one 4000 and its near silent, but i would have to say my mag 12 is quieter with the vibration pad on it..... JMO

[StirCrazy]

ok, so due to me having to try get my house ready to sell, (anyone paint for cheap?) this project is permanatly on hold, untill I move to kamloops or maybe I will just use some of the stuff on a bigger project.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Ok so it has been a while so I thought I better do an update. I have changed directions on this build and sold most of the stuff I bought for it to this point. I am still using the 27 gal tanks though, and as soon as I get my shop insulated, drywalled and heat installed I will start the layout and stand build.

Steve

[bvlester]

I can't wait to see it up and running..

Bill

[StirCrazy]

I can't wait to see it up and running..

Bill

it will be a while. I start a new job on the 18th and will have home work for the first few months :twised:

plus I am still doing some reasearch on a couple things..

Steve

[StirCrazy]

figured I better do an update, I think this is going to set the record for the longest tank build on canreef now :mrgreen:

haven't don't anything really except selling off the stuff I bought and started to decide where I can set up a tank.

I currently have a bucket of water sitting on my bar downstairs and I try run down when a train goes buy to see how much the water moves around. that is complicated by the fact I keep forgetting to go down and look :redface:

I have decided to keep to my DIY roots as much as possible so I have build 2/3 the Ca reactor and Kalk reactor, just waiting for warmer weather to finish them as I still don't have heat in the shop. I have a skimmer that is 3/4 finish in the shop but I think one that would probably end up being good for like 1000 gal would be a little excessive for 54 gal of water... so I have to build a new one.

so what are the latest trends in skimmers now days that work?

does anyone sell needle wheel pumps that I can build a skimmer around?

Steve

[Doug]

Yay Steve