"xenia crash" can someone see the problem in xenia picture i posted

[fishguy007]

hello,

my xenia have shriveled again. i attached some pics. can someone tell what is wrong with them by the picture.

my ph was 7.8 today about. i rapidly just bosted it mins ago with ph boost. its like 8.4 now.

why is my ph going so low. what is wrong with teh xenia and what can i do.

do they look dead by the picture?

[fishguy007]

how can i make my ph stay at 8.3

[dabandit]

Im no expert but I think your ph is balanced in part by your other parameters,what are they at?
P.S you should be raising your ph slowlly sudden changes in your conditions could be the reason why your xenia is sick. Also I dont see any growth on your rock how old is your setup?

[fishguy007]

from the pictures. do you think that the xenia will come back.???????????????????????????????????????/

the set up is just over a month old.

is there any way that i can make it age quicker.

all my parameters appear to be ok. ph is just a bit low.

[ElGuappo]

all i can suggest is patience. still a new tank.

[mike31154]

pH will vary depending on the time of day it is measured. In most systems it will be lower during the night. Light and oxygen both impact your pH. When the lights go out, pH will start dropping. Adequate flow will aid oxygenation/gas exchange to stabilize pH. I've often heard people recommend opening a door or window allowing fresh air into the house to raise pH. Trouble with that is it's pretty much out of the question during the winter.

[Powertec]

Did you cycle the tank fully?
Its not dead yet...Just closing up as its kinda cranky at the water.
If it is only a month old it is to early yet to have stuff in there.

And no there is no way to age it faster.
This hobby is definetly not about rushing things. Patience is what is required. Rush things and your livestock suffer and die.

And yes just raising your ph like that is an absolute no no...Once again do these things slowly.

What are all your others tests coming out as?

Salinity? And what is it measured with?
Temp?
Nitrate?
Nitrite?
Ammonia?
Are you dosing anything other than the ph buffer?

[fishguy007]

i used dead rock in the tank. just base rock,. the lfs told me this was better, then i did not have to wait for the live rock to agasin cycle. they told me the dead rock would come alive. is this at all true

the lfs told me that i could put stuff in right away. how long do you suggest that i wait before i put anything else in.

Salinity? 1.024 I use the deep six hygrometer. you dip it in the tank, let it fill and the lever floats to the salinity.

Temp? between 78-79. sometimes 80 with the lights

Nitrate? 0

Nitrite? 0

Ammonia? 0

Are you dosing anything other than the ph buffer? - i add calcium. coral excel, coral vite, coral frenzy and mix the fish food in garlic. i have added idoide but thats about it.


any suggestions

[Powertec]

Replied to your pm.

[Snaz]

- i add calcium. coral excel, coral vite, coral frenzy and mix the fish food in garlic. i have added idoide but thats about it.


any suggestions

Possible reasons your coral is dying.

1. Tank is one month old.
2. Dead rock, how did you cycle the tank?
3. Dosing everything but gatorade. Don't dose what you can't test for. Adding supplements is meant to replace lost minerals due to coral GROWTH that don't normally get replaced with regular water changes. Since your coral is not growing you should NOT be dosing. Even if coral was growing modestly you should be getting all of your minerals through water changes with a good salt.
4. Not enough Patience.

[fishguy007]

it was fiji live rock. was taken out of a tank and dried for a few months and then washed with a hose and dried again. so the guy told me no cycling.

i have a few pieces of live rock from the corals that i added.

just orederd a refractometer now.

no. another guy told me that i dont reall have to add anything. is that true. he said a reef could be fine with no chemicals.

iin there now i have two occ clowns. one blk occ clown. a yellow watchman godby,. a hipo tang and a yellow tang. its only a 32 gallon tank

i just test
ph
nitrate
nitrite
and ammonia

should i buy more test kits. i got what the lfs told me.

so would the cycle cause the ph to be low., and how long will this cycle take. the tank have been runnig for over a moonth now.

[Aquattro]

If your tank is a month old, you didn't use live rock, nd your dosing everything the store sells, you're in trouble. You should not have those fishin there yet, and a couple should never go in there.
Return the tangs, tank is too small. Return any additives, tank doesn't need them. Find new fish store, you don't need that one.
Don't buy anything else until you ask here or another board. We don't sell stuff here, so our advice is not biased.
You need to slow down. A lot.

[Black Phantom]

Sorry to agree but your tank is way too small for those tangs. What other corals do you have close by the zenia. They may be getting stung or under a chemical attack.
I can't have Zenia in my big tank as they just shrivel and die, but they grow like weeds in my 50. Exact same water just different corals.

[dabandit]

When you add a new fish to your tank it needs to cycle again to develop enough bacteria to clean the waste the new fish produces,your adding fish faster than your tank can develop the bacteria to keep the water pure..result-system crash,add 1 fish wait 2-4weeks add another and so on. Running a tank that small,new and overstocked theres no way your ammonia,nitrate are at zero. And as I mentioned before you also need to test for phosphate,ka alkalinity,magnesium if you want to keep a reef.

[dabandit]

For the gentleman who says you cant rush a cycle I suggest you educate yourself on the subject ,there are a variety of ways to rush an initial cycle.
I've pulled it off in about a week using cured re seeded live rock,1/2live sand from an established tank and 1/2 water from an established tank. Basically at that point your just doing a 40-50%water change. p.s when the store told you no cycling on the live rock they ment no die off on the live rock,cycle still needs to be done to add the bacteria and such.

[Powertec]

For the gentleman who says you cant rush a cycle I suggest you educate yourself on the subject ,there are a variety of ways to rush an initial cycle.
I've pulled it off in about a week using cured re seeded live rock,1/2live sand from an established tank and 1/2 water from an established tank. Basically at that point your just doing a 40-50%water change. p.s when the store told you no cycling on the live rock they ment no die off on the live rock,cycle still needs to be done to add the bacteria and such.


The idea on the you can't rush a cycle. Is how exactly do you propose he is going to do that now after the tank is already set up and has livestock in it?I am very aware at the fact that you can push a cycle but that is all before you add a tank full of stuff who is gonna suffer now as it wasn't cycled properly before it was all added.

And you might want to educate yourself on base rock. It does still have a cycle.I bought 150 pounds of base rock and i still had ammonia and went through a full cycle. So in all reality you still have die off.All the stuff that dies in all the nook's and crannies inside that rock will decompose when added to water.If you are buying actual live rock which has been dried out that is...Which is what he stated to me he bought.

[dabandit]

Ok partner I can see I hit a sore spot for you. The question was can you rush a cycle the answer is yes.....simple. Im sorry the liverock you bought wasnt fully cured,fyi all liverock will allways leech these nasties even after years in a tank die off is a never ending battle as the pores of the rock fill with detrious and dead bacteria. Ask around partner I know im not the only one rushing cycles like this. P.S if you want to skip cycle buy your liverock from a fellow reefer directlly from display ie(seeded) rather than from an lfs.

P.S I never said you didnt have to cycle,it just speeds it up as the nitrifying bacteria are allready present. Similar to the cycle you get when you add a new fish
also why couldnt he replace his rock or add new stuff? I suggest you take a deep breath read what I wrote and think about what your saying

Cheers

[dabandit]

When you added 150 lbs did you also use established sand and 50% established water as I stated? again partner,read before you speak

[Nebthet]

I am terribly sorry you bought dead live rock and you LFS was not helpful. I would suggest going back to them and having their manager educate them out the door for the poor information they gave you.

If you purchase dead live rock (the dry stuff), it take at least a month or more to properly cycle in your tank. If you purchase cured live rock (the stuff fresh and kept in saltwater and never dried), this will significantly reduce your cycling time between two to three weeks. It is a bit more expensive, but worth it because you commonly get hitchickers in it.

Live sand has the same standard. If it is straight out of a bag you will have a longer cycling time than if you use that in addition to getting a cup of seeded live sand from a fellow hobbiest.

I have a 24gallon. I purchased my live rock cured and I used the crushed coral because it came with the tank used and while it was dead when I go tit because it was kept in cold water, it still retained some bacteria which helped. and I also seeded the tank. I had a shorter cycle because I was able to set everything up within 24hrs of recieving rock and also was given the tank water to be able to take the live rock home in, meaning I could seed my tank with that too.

Within 3 days I had detritus growing, and I had 5 small featherdusters and a week after that octo polyp corals growing on my live rock. Once my detritus stopped taking over the tank so much, I was then able to add my Cleanup Crew, and a couple coral frags, which are doing great in my system. But for every item you add, you will get a spike and will have to go through another cycle for a couple of weeks.

It is a lot of work to keep a saltwater tank.
Also, do not add stuff to the water. It doesnt need it. If you must add something, ensure your tank is at least 4 months old and corals are growing and you "have to" add it to keep the corals healthy, not to make them grow.

No tangs. Your tank is too small. You can get away with about 4 maybe 5 fish in a 35 gallon. Clowns, Gobies, Cardinals, Damsels, Pygmy Angels.

Read, Read and Read some more. It will hurt your head, but keeps money in your wallet in the long run.

Try not to take offence to the advice given. We were where you were once.

Hope this helps.

[superduperwesman]

Ok partner I can see I hit a sore spot for you... ...Ask around partner I know im not the only one rushing...

Cheers

... again partner...

I'm confused... You want him to be this kind or partner http://www.ngycp.org/vBulletin/images/smilies/cowboy.gif or this one http://www.smileytown.com/application/content/smiley_gaypride2.gif

[The-new-guy]

Iam way to lazy to rush or push a cycle. I could see if this was your first SW tank and wanted to to get to the salty goodness faster but Like I said Iam way to lazy to go through the trouble.

My last tank i set-up I

1. dump in sand
2. add salt water
3. stack rock ( I dont clean rock when being added to new setup, helps kick cycle into gear )
4. Wait a month :mrgreen: ( or until all readings tests at 0 well not all readings :biggrin: )
5. add stuff.

Your xenia does look ****ed, not dead but mad.

just keep reading these and other boards no one starts SW knowing everything out of the gate. oh ya find a new LFS or at least someone in that store that has a better handle on giving out good info.

Peace out!!

[Murminator]

It's fine just not happy now soon it will over taking everything and you will wish it was dead

[fishguy007]

thank you to all for your help. things are getting better. the rocks are starting to turn brown and getting some brown on my powerheads. is this okay though? what is it.