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View Full Version : It's time to say Goodbye...


hillbillyreefer
11-18-2008, 04:58 PM
to my 120 gal fresh tank. It has an overwhelming desire to become a reef.

The tank is 24x24x48, with a sump size to be determined when I figure out how to design the system and where to put things. To start out the tank will be set up with overflow boxes. Has anyone had experience with a good brand? What else is needed to make them work properly? How loud are they and how big a pain in the ___ are they? Would one big box or two small boxes be better? How much flow through the sump would be required? I know drilling is better, but the tank is probably going to be moved in the next couple years and the setup will be different. I'll drill it when I move it.

I'm also seriously considering trying the GARF method of cultured DIY LR. Mud and sand in the fuge with lots of macro.

First thoughts on the equipment list:
Tank
25 gal sump with fuge or another fuge added draining into the sump, all depends on how the space works out.
Frag tanks above the sump etc. I have lots of vertical space but a small foot print. T5's also.
Over flow boxes
T5 8 bulb lighting,
Skimmer, in sump Tunze, Deltec, ASM or similar.
Flow Koralia's, have had good luck with them.
Calcium, phosban reactors, probably not on initial setup.
Sand, I like the look of it, but hate the problems associated with it.
ATO, probably DIY.

Stocking list:
3 or 4 fish, Only for sure is a Mandarin.
SPS
LPS
Clams
Large CUC
Tuxedo urchin.

This project is a long way from happening. Lots of thought has gone into it. Now that I have SWMBO onside, it should happen this winter sometime.

TIA

Trigger Man
11-18-2008, 05:04 PM
Good to see another one moving over to the SW side, from your list for potential equipment it looks like you are well on your way and have done the research. I will let someone with more knowledge chime in on overflows. For the Mandarin you should wait till the tank is established before putting one in, as it needs it's food source to be thriving in the tank already.

wickedfrags
11-18-2008, 05:23 PM
Lots of things to consider when planning a conversion.

I would definitely recommend getting the tank drilled and going with a sump...for many many reasons. Also, plan on getting the best skimmer you can afford, do not skimp on the skimmer as it is essentially the most important piece of equipment you will buy. Good luck and have fun with it.

hillbillyreefer
11-18-2008, 05:40 PM
It will be drilled at some point, just no time soon. Layout and space considerations are the reason for the overflow boxes. Someday this tank would make a nice sump for a bbbbiiiiggg tank, but for that to happen the kids would have to move to the barn, the wife says that isn't going to happen!

Most of the system has come together in my head, the only unknown is the overflow boxes. I've never seen them used, or heard much about them for that matter. That has me thinking there is reason why they aren't more common.

superduperwesman
11-18-2008, 06:06 PM
but for that to happen the kids would have to move to the barn, the wife says that isn't going to happen!


Why what's so wrong with that??

http://coolboom.net/tag/traditional-inspiration/

trilinearmipmap
11-18-2008, 06:55 PM
If you do go with an overflow box Lifereef is widely acclaimed to be the best with the lowest failure rate. There is another company in the U.S. that apparently makes Lifereef knockoffs for 1/2 price, I can't recall their name. I don't have any personal experience with this but I read up on it a fair bit planning my own tanks.

naesco
11-19-2008, 02:42 AM
I just want to post some general comments based on my experience.
The difference between fresh and marine is that marine is less forgiving. You have to go slow, have patience or problems develope early.

There is no problem with sand. IME a sand bed of 3inches provides various life forms that your future fish and coral relish.

Plan the additions of your fish adding one per month rather than four at the same time.

Add the mandarin 9 months after cycling to give your tank a chance to mature and the critters it needs to survive to flourish.

Start SPS and clams after one year.

Sorry if I posted basic info that you already know.
Good Luck eh and welcome.

marie
11-19-2008, 02:51 AM
I just want to post some general comments based on my experience.
The difference between fresh and marine is that marine is less forgiving. You have to go slow, have patience or problems develope early.

There is no problem with sand. IME a sand bed of 3inches provides various life forms that your future fish and coral relish.

Plan the additions of your fish adding one per month rather than four at the same time.

Add the mandarin 9 months after cycling to give your tank a chance to mature and the critters it needs to survive to flourish.

Start SPS and clams after one year.

Sorry if I posted basic info that you already know.
Good Luck eh and welcome.

All good info except the start sps after 1 yr comment. If the tank is started with the intention of being an sps tank, it is better to start with pioneer sps corals (montipora ect.) then to start with softies and later move to sps. Softies leave little bits of themselves behind which can plague the tank for years after, they also can release toxins that make it difficult for sps to thrive.
There is no reason why you can't start adding some hardy sps at the 2-3 month mark

naesco
11-19-2008, 03:03 AM
I meant to say acropora. The pne year comment came from the vendor who gave me advice on keeping acropora and the books I have read.
Thanks for correcting my error.

hillbillyreefer
11-19-2008, 06:43 AM
After more research it seems the lifereef overflow is the way to go. I don't want to depend on aqualifter pumps, I despise pumps, and I'm not lucky enough to have them start everytime. We have frequent power outages, that's what you get for living in the boonies. What flow rating overflow would Canreefers put on this tank? I have my own idea but would like others with more experience to give their opinions.

I'm a newb but not a total newb, my tanks atm are a 5 gal softie, 24 gal nano reef, and a 33 with a diy 11 gal sump reef. I've started with the smaller tanks to gain knowledge and understanding of reef setups to make the jump to this 120.

As for sand one of my tanks has it, one had it and one has always been BB. This one will probably have it, I seem to be getting a handle on what animals work to keep the sand clean.

As for stocking there isn't much chance there will be any livestock in the tank before the end of Feb or sometime in March. Too much work to do in the mean time. The Mandarin will be the last fish added. I would like to get the overflow in and running while it's still a fresh tank, just to make sure the basis of the system will work out. Go slow and have fun, the only way to reef.

Thanks for all your input so far, keep it coming.

wickedfrags
11-19-2008, 12:14 PM
While a good product I am sure, never the preferred route when setting up a reef. While they work, the opportunity for "failure" exists on an issue that is easily avoidable with a drilled tank. It is the failures in this hobby, specially early on (particularily in the design stage), that get people frustrated with the hobby.

This being said, they can work flawlessly for long periods of time. I however would never recommend someone go this route.

If you do go with an overflow box Lifereef is widely acclaimed to be the best with the lowest failure rate. There is another company in the U.S. that apparently makes Lifereef knockoffs for 1/2 price, I can't recall their name. I don't have any personal experience with this but I read up on it a fair bit planning my own tanks.

Snappy
11-19-2008, 04:12 PM
I meant to say acropora. The pne year comment came from the vendor who gave me advice on keeping acropora and the books I have read.
Thanks for correcting my error.
Be careful not to lump all acropora into the same "hard to keep" mindset. There are several acros that are very easy to keep and care for. If the tank is set up properly and the parameters are optimal I see no reason to wait too long after the cycle is completed.

Delphinus
11-19-2008, 04:56 PM
I completely agree with wickedfrags.com. Seems to me the time to drill the tank is now. You'll have the tank empty at some point during the conversion, you won't have it empty once you stock it. :)

I used an overflow box for many years when first starting and yes they do work but yes they can fail in ways that a drilled tank cannot. Drilling is not hard and the holes can be easily plugged if you wish to convert to sump down the road (patch it over with glass, or just put a PVC cap in the bulkhead).

I guess to me it comes down to the KISS principle. To me drilling, although you have to first get into the right mindset of it I guess, is the simpler solution. Adding boxes and U-tubes or up-and-overs and etc. is the less simple approach.

hillbillyreefer
11-19-2008, 05:56 PM
The KISS approach is usually the best. I have no fear or worries about drilling the tank myself. As of now my wife doesn't want the tank out from the wall any further than it is. And the way it's set up a side outlet would be best. There is a dead spot on one end that just collects kids junk that I will be taking over for a sump frag tank area. My issue with drilling is that when the tank is moved to a new location, the old hole may be visible and ruin the asthetics of the tank.

Does anyone have recomendations on flow rates through the sump?

I'm thinking I'm going to order the overflow and play around with it while the tank is still freshwater. That will give a couple months experience before the tank is drained. I'll make the decision whether to drill or not then.

After thinking about the timeline, March is probably pushing it, April is more realistic. It's got to be up and running by seeding time or it probably won't get done until next October, and that just won't do.

Slick Fork
11-19-2008, 06:39 PM
I had the sump for my old tank at 600gph and will probably do the same with the new one. If you push the water too fast through it you'll get all sorts of bubbles and the equipment just won't have time to do it's job. Too slow and it gets stagnant.

Also, I'd second the recommendation that if it's going to be an SPS tank, start it with montipora's and hardy acros. I read an article recently (can't remember where) that went so far as to recommend putting your rock, corals, etc. in MONTHS before adding a single fish. I'll see if I can dig it up again and post a link. but the logic was that it gives everything in the tank a chance to flourish without any predation at all.