Is this enough current in a 230?

[Canadian Man]

Hey people.
so here's the plan. Mainly SPS in my new 230.

My plan for circulation is;
-Return pump LG 4mdqx-sc feeding refugium so a little bit cut off so let's say 800gph to 2 nozzles in the center of the tank pointing to the front corner.
-Closed loop, mak 4, 2 holes drilled in each side of tank with a scwd hooked up to each of the pairs of holes on the ends of the tank. So about 1000gph from the mak.
-Red sea wave maker with 4 mj1200's on it @300gph each. 2 on at a time so another 600gph or so.

So total GPH at one time(because of wave maker) 800 + 1000 + 600 =
about 2400gph

Is this enough?
It should be very alternating with the closed loop alternating between 2 sets of 2 bulkheads and 4 mj's alternating :confused:

[Aquattro]

Jon, I would save all that work and money and pick up a couple of streams. Once your SPS grow, you won't have enough current (IMO)

[Canadian Man]

Hmmm :confused: Well that poses a problem because I allready have the mak pump, the scwd's, the wavemaker, the powerheads and the holes drilled in the side of my aquarium with the bulkheads installed.

I know that's the ultimate answer but It's just not in budget right now as I allready have all this stuff purchased and have to finish the basement as it is.

I didn't just purchase all the stuff either I just purchased the mak 4 and scwd's. the other stuff I had.

[Aquattro]

I knew you were going to say that. Unfortunately I think you'll find that the current from that equipment won't be enough in a SPS dominated tank.

[Delphinus]

Well ... how about that as a starting point, though? I would have guessed it to be not too bad, but then again I'm inexperienced with larger tanks.

If he has the stuff lying around anyways, why not use it for the first little bit or so, while he finishes the basement and whatnot, and saves up for a stream or two? What about having all that AND a stream (or two)? I bet there'd be some trick currents and eddies happening then. ( :question: )

Don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued by both the stream, and the wave2k. They seem like a lot of coin, though ... Definitely something to save up for! :wink:

[Jack]

Jon, I don't know what to say because I thought that sounded like a nice setup.. but maybe run a seperate pump per pair of SCWD's. Like one pump on each side of the tank.

That should be some random current that's forsure though :eek: Should be nice.

[smokinreefer]

FWIW, i have a 135 6' x 2'W x 18"H sps dominated tank.

at the time being i have a MAG12 as a return, split on 2 outlets.
and 9 PHs!!, i believe they are...
4 x hagen 802 PH
2 x hagen 402 PH
2 x hagen 301 PH
1 x hagen 201 PH

IMO the flow in my tank just doesnt cut it...
my problem is i have a "SHOW" colt coral smack dab in the middle of my tank. i am very reluctant to part with it, but at the same time i know i need more flow, i am trying to figure out how i can add a tunze 6080 to my set up, without flattening the colt. :lol:

your set up sounds good, for now.
down the road you'll need to add to it though.

[Doug]

First, I agree with Brad. A pair of 6080 pumps would solve all the problems. :biggrin:

However that not being a happening for now, I can only comment on my same size tank. And it was never sps dominated, YET> :biggrin:

I ran a Mak 4 return across one end to the other, a Mak 4 closed loop on the other end and a 3MD closed loop in the center. Plus my scrubber dump. It was decent current but not even close to what my two Tunze pumps generate. Without the closed loops, I experimented with about 6 Hagen 800 powerheads, About the same as the closed loops.

Now although not a match for the streams, I would say it was enough current for a tank, even with sps, as long as the rock was well spaced. In my tank it was just to packed.

I have no experience with the squids, so cant help there. I would think as long as the 4MD, is not losing to much or the Mak4 is not back pressured by the squid, then the current should be fine for now.

Unless of course you have some honkin large sps colonies already. I have read threads where they retard the current big time. My plan, even with the two streams, is to run some 800,s later on when they grow.

I still think its fine for now though and see what happens as the tank progresses.

[Aquattro]

Jon, I didn't mean to imply you couldn't use the stuff. I twill give fairly decent current in an open tank. HOWEVER....when your SPS fill in all that openness, you will need to add more. Tony had the best suggestion with adding single stream to your setup. A 6080 is only $259 or so ("only" compared to the 6110 kit!). This would add ~2200gph to what you have. Again, this could be a year or more down the road.

[spikehs]

i did a bit of reading on rc about flow to determine what i needed and it seemed most sps dominated tanks where 10-20x turnover, the 20x wasn't even that uncommon.

[Doug]

Smokin, I thing the 6080 may be hard on a large colt in the center. Not sure how you could work around it. I have to be careful to protect my huge bubble coral, but the 30in. depth helps a lot, plus some protective rock.

[Buccaneer]

Hey Jon ... I am drilling holes for a closed loop on my 300 right now actually ( tonite ! ... just taking a dinner break :smile: )

I am drilling a 1 1/2" input ( to pump ) on each side and (2) 1" outputs ( back to tank ) also on each side ( total of (2) x 11/2" and (4) x 1" )

I will be reducing everything initially to 3/4" so that I can run my 2 Mag18's and as my circulation needs increase I can adjust accordingly

My return from my sump is a 4MDQX also but I found that too much back pressure will cause it to cavitate and produce microbubbles so it is pretty unrestricted and plumbed closer to the surface to keep the surface clear and produce a nice shimmer :cool:

Cheers

[Canadian Man]

Yea I don't really know what to do at this point. I suppose just continue with my origional plan.

I could drill another intake for a 2nd pump on the closed loop and have one pump per side?

[Canadian Man]

Jon, I didn't mean to imply you couldn't use the stuff. I twill give fairly decent current in an open tank. HOWEVER....when your SPS fill in all that openness, you will need to add more. Tony had the best suggestion with adding single stream to your setup. A 6080 is only $259 or so ("only" compared to the 6110 kit!). This would add ~2200gph to what you have. Again, this could be a year or more down the road.

Yea that may be the best option. Basically all my SPS are fairly small sized pieces with the largest acro being about tennisball size. Most are frags though.

[Buccaneer]

Hey Jon ... another intake is a great idea at this point ( I assume there is no water in it yet ) ... better to do it now than a year from now when your tank is full of corals and fish :eek:

Just a suggestion

Cheers

[Doug]

If you do another closed loop and run another Mak4 on it, there will be a nice current, however,
Another Mak 4 and plumbing is about the same cost as the 6080. Also a concern of mine, besides the current the Mak4,s produced, was power consumption.

My 2-Mak4 pumps used 100 watts each and my 3MD used 90 watts, which comes to almost 300 watts.

My pair of Tunze pumps use 18 watts each, or something like that.

Another consideration for the long run is current generators in the tank. You already have powerheads, so the streams, although larger would be no different. Perhaps if you dont like that look though, and while your doing closed loops, all the inside units could be gotten rid of, if you prefer closed loops and the larger pumps on the outside.

Many prefer that option as they dont like power thingys in their tank. Also many larger pumps, like Little Giant and Genex, have an excellent reputation for longevity.

If you were interested in that option, then I would look at direct drive pumps like the Ampmaster or Sequence. They can make some kinda flow.

Hope I have not thrown to much confusion into the mix. :lol: Just trying to bring up all different options for ya.

[Canadian Man]

No confusion at all Doug, Thanks for the ideas!

I mentioned another pump on the closed loop because I have another one allready. Basiclly on my 90g I am running a LG 4mdqxsc on the closed loop. I got the mak 4 for the new tank because it will have a little more power( I hope) and also I need the Lg on the 90g till I make the swithch over in the beggining of July. I am going to fill the 230 soon(no Rasta there is no water in it) add the salt and sand bed and some scoops of sand from the current setup to seed the sand bed. This is why I need the mak 4 so I can have some flow in the 230 while it's cycling/sitting/seeding/aging.

So If I drill another intake then I would just plumb one side of the closed loop with the mak 4 and have nothing on the otherside till I make the switch over at which time I can plumb the lg4 onto the other side of the tank. Make sense? Kinda confusing myself :rolleyes:

So I wouldnt nessecarily have to purchase another pump because I have one :mrgreen:

You do make a good point though Doug about the power consumption. I don't really mind the look of the Tunze's but I have never seen one in person.

Maybe a good plan would be to just use one pump for the closed loop like I had planned, add the 4 mj powerheads. Once the tank is running and the basement is done I can save up my pennies and purchase a few Tunze's and take out the mj's and add the tunze's.
So at that point I would have the sump return, closed loop and 2 tunze's. That should be plenty of flow for an established sps 230g tank?

[Doug]

As you already have the pumps, closed loops may be fine for now. They addition of the 4MD on a closed loop should generate decent current. I had one that was not drilled. Just a "U" pipe over the top, with a slotted down pipe intake. The return also went over the top. Drilling is neater though. Later on you could purchase the larger 6110 controlled, pulsing stream pump and run in on one end along with a closed loop.

I think you will be fine with your plans for now.

You could also do as I did. Sell my Mak4 pumps to buy Tunze,s. :lol:

[Jack]

Jon, how are you drilling this many holes :eek: Aren't you worried you're going to run out of luck and it cracks on you?

Sounds like you're really giving this tank all the thought, should be nice to see the final product.

[Canadian Man]

Jon, how are you drilling this many holes :eek: Aren't you worried you're going to run out of luck and it cracks on you?

Sounds like you're really giving this tank all the thought, should be nice to see the final product.

I am "grinding" these holes with a diamond impregnated bit. not worried at all :cool:
On 1/2" glass there is not much to worry about. I'm just using a hand drill. If I was drilling very thin glass like a hagen 10g then I may be worried.

[Buccaneer]

I am "grinding" these holes with a diamond impregnated bit. not worried at all :cool:


I was " grinding " with a hole saw all last nite till 4 am :eek:

Got all 6 holes drilled with bulkheads in and water " back " into the tank

Cheers

[Jack]

Awesome! I heard about the dremmel trick. It works eh?! Right on. How long does it take to go through 1/2" glass and is it hard? I always wondered about that for refugiums and sumps but thin glass is trick you say? I'm going to do a search on RC but any links are appreciated.

Rasta, hole saw? :eek: Acrylic?

[Buccaneer]

Rasta, hole saw? :eek: Acrylic?

Wood Tank ... hehehehe ... be wild if it was a glass tank huh ?

Cheers

[Canadian Man]

Awesome! I heard about the dremmel trick. It works eh?! Right on. How long does it take to go through 1/2" glass and is it hard? I always wondered about that for refugiums and sumps but thin glass is trick you say? I'm going to do a search on RC but any links are appreciated.

Rasta, hole saw? :eek: Acrylic?

No Dremel here Jack, well not used on the tank anyway. I wouldn't attempt a dremel on 1/2" glass!
I used an actual diamond glass hole saw drill bit from Jayson at SWC.
It took about 5 min per hole.

[christyf5]

Hey Jon,

I'm looking into drilling my tank. Is that just a regular bit you can pick up from home depot?? I dont' see one of those on Jaysons website. How much was it?

Christy :)

[Delphinus]

I can answer that part for Jonathan ('cuz it was my drill bit he used ... mine! mine! mine's precious .... :wink: )

Jayson doesn't list the drill bits on his site, but I'm sure Jayson would set you up with a drill bit if you asked him to sell you one, but be prepared they are quite costly. The drill bits that I have are actually his old bits that he used before he went and bought himself some really primo bits ... even used I paid $75 per bit. So if you are just looking to drill one or two holes, you might be better off to find someone you know who has a drill bit and asking them to either borrow their bit or if they can come over and drill the hole for you.

PS. I'd be happy to come over and drill the holes for you, but someone'd have to pay my airfare... :razz:

[Canadian Man]

Tony basically answered the question.
Jayson dosent currently have any used ones but new ones are in the range of 150ish.

[christyf5]

Dang, thats a bit steep for me. Guess I'll try the local glass shops.

Thanks for the info :biggrin:

Christy :)