Down to two lights, looking for assurance...

[Whatigot]

Okay, the first unit I am looking at is used from prince george but not for long and looks like it's in great shape.
It's
a PFO professional series hood
2x 400w XM se halides
2x 400w Icecap Electronic dimmable Ballasts
1x Icecap 660 Fluorescent ballast
2x 110w VHO URI super Actinics
750$ taxes and shipping in

The next one I'm looking at is on ebay and brand new, it's made by sun lighting co (China) and has
2x 250w 14k de bulbs w. spider reflectors
2x 250w Magnetic Ballasts
4x 54w t5 ho w. individual german reflectors
3x 5-1w leds
2 year money back guarantee

all components are made by sun lighting co

600$ takes, duties and shipping in

would love some opinions on this, I have a lot of sps and am sick of having them all in the top half of my tank with my coralife 150 hqi's.

The tank is a 72 bowfront, with 24' depth and 4ft long.

Thanks reefers.

[Oceanic]

100% PFO all the way! I have ZERO faith in Chinese made lighting fixtures fromm Ebay. At least with PFo you have someone to call if something were to go wrong. Even if all or some of the PFO hardware is made in china it has some sort of decent quality control. Chinese made products are crap at the best of times with few acceptions in my opinion.

:biggrin:

[Whatigot]

I agree.
But this fixture looks very nice IMO.
It's also got a complete 2 year money back guarantee and the seller assures me that if for any reason it's not up to standards he will offer full cash back....

I hear that a lot, about the chinese made fixtures but then again, I don't know anyone who actually has one.

you were def right about that schuran though, man what a nice skimmer.


http://cgi.ebay.com/48-Metal-Halide-250-T5-HO-Aquarium-Light-Moon-New_W0QQitemZ180306439965QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item180306439965&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18#ebayphotohosting

thats the chine made one, looks really nice IMO, otherwise I would be of the same mind as you oceanic.....as it is, I am undecided.
your opinion helps though.

[Oceanic]

I agree.
But this fixture looks very nice IMO.
It's also got a complete 2 year money back guarantee and the seller assures me that if for any reason it's not up to standards he will offer full cash back....

I hear that a lot, about the chinese made fixtures but then again, I don't know anyone who actually has one.

you were def right about that schuran though, man what a nice skimmer.


http://cgi.ebay.com/48-Metal-Halide-250-T5-HO-Aquarium-Light-Moon-New_W0QQitemZ180306439965QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item180306439965&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18#ebayphotohosting

thats the chine made one, looks really nice IMO, otherwise I would be of the same mind as you oceanic.....as it is, I am undecided.
your opinion helps though.

I checked out the Ebay listing and yes it looks "okay" but I strongly urge you to go for the PFO instead, you will be much much better off. I would question things like the quality of the reflectors, wiring, UL certification, and ballasts in the China model.

I am glad yyou like the Schuran, it is one hell of a skimmer!

Ian

[Whatigot]

alright, thanks for your honest opinion.
I know the sun lighting co. one is inferior to the pfo, but it is brand new and there is no risk involved with ebay/paypal protection where as the PFO unit is off of a member here with very few posts from prince george and no paypal protection....

[sphelps]

I wouldn't give up on the China one just yet. I work for a manufacturing company and although we do manufacture a lot of our products here in Canada 50% of our produces are either partially or completely manufactured in China and we still stick a made in Canada sticker on them. This is very common business practice for any manufacturing company as a lot of the time outsourcing is the only way to compete in the market.

There are many aquarium products made in China, and that doesn't necessarily mean they are crap. The only concern with the lighting is the ballasts, you'll want to make sure they can run properly on 110V without a converter. Also T5s will work best with individual reflectors and you'll likely want new, better bulbs.

Have you considered other fixtures? The PFO is OK but I wouldn't run VHOs. The bulb selection available for T5s right now is outstanding and a good advantage.

[Whatigot]

I wouldn't give up on the China one just yet. I work for a manufacturing company and although we do manufacture a lot of our products here in Canada 50% of our produces are either partially or completely manufactured in China and we still stick a made in Canada sticker on them. This is very common business practice for any manufacturing company as a lot of the time outsourcing is the only way to compete in the market.

There are many aquarium products made in China, and that doesn't necessarily mean they are crap. The only concern with the lighting is the ballasts, you'll want to make sure they can run properly on 110V without a converter. Also T5s will work best with individual reflectors and you'll likely want new, better bulbs.

Have you considered other fixtures? The PFO is OK but I wouldn't run VHOs. The bulb selection available for T5s right now is outstanding and a good advantage.

Thanks for the inside insight.
I just haven't seen any t5 blues that compare to the uri super actinics and with 800W of Icecap electronic power on a 24' deep tank, the supplemental lighting would only be for dawn/dusk and added blue, I've seen t5s and I've seen vhos in person and no question, the VHOs POP IMO.
Looking at that fixture, it DOES seems like it's quality...then again, so did my last ex.:twised:

I imagine that after I replace all the bulbs on the china one and replace the megnetic ballast with an electronic one they will both cost me about the same.

as a reference, here is a pic of the pfo fixture

[sphelps]

Yes I do believe VHOs have an advantage for pure actinic lighting due to the large radius, I believe. But in my experience using supplemental T5s will give better overall color.

[fkshiu]

Well let's break things down on a strictly technical basis:

MH BALLASTS
You should be able to get more light out of a 400W electronic ballast vs. a 250W magnetic. It will make a difference if you want to put high light corals and clams on the bottom of your 24" tank (see BULBS below for further discussion on PAR).

Secondly, electronic ballasts will be more reliable in the long term than magnetics and you'll have certainty and consistency of electrical usage with an electronic ballast - it will run 400w regardless whereas 250w magnetics can actually draw up to 300w when in use. On a related note, electronics are also more consistent with respect to output according to Sanjay Joshi's results. There is more of a PAR variation in between different brands of magnetic ballasts so you may end up with either an underperformer or an overperformer. Electronics will also run cooler, are physically smaller and quite a bit lighter in weight than magnetics.

BULBS
Not sure how old the XM and URI bulbs that come with the PFO are, but if they have any life in them left they will be superior to what the other fixture has. Regardless of how happy people are with the actual "cheap Chinese" fixture they buy on e-Bay, there is almost universal dissatisfaction with the no-name bulbs that come with these fixtures. Some reports indicate that the "actinics" in some of these fixtures are just regular bulbs painted blue. You know exactly what you are getting with XMs and URIs Superactinics.

Further, since the PFO is SE and the generic unit is DE, you'll get more PAR out of the SE bulbs simply because the DE unit will require an extra glass UV shield which filters out PAR as well as UV. SE bulbs can be run bare and thus lose less PAR on the way down to the tank.

REFLECTORS
You should find out what type of reflectors the PFO has. They can range anywhere from aluminium to mirror-polished to hammertone. PFO also uses different types of reflectors from the crappy flat type to the better "parallel" style. The reflectors on the Chinese unit are puny and will not give the best spread or most even spread. Reflectors are extremely important in performance. Regardless, neither unit will have very good reflectors in the grand scheme of things - that would go to dedicated MH pendants like Lumenarc or Lumenbright.

Fluorescent BALLASTS
The Icecap 660 is a very versatile and reliable ballast. It can run T5s if you wanted and in fact will overdrive T5HOs producing more light at the cost of shorter bulb life.

OTHER
The PFO is butt ugly unless you like the Mad Max look. Moonlights are neat to have, but can be retrofitted on the PFO. The PFO also may have fans which can be important in the life of T5 bulbs - they tend to give more light and last longer when actively cooled.

[Whatigot]

Well let's break things down on a strictly technical basis:

MH BALLASTS
You should be able to get more light out of a 400W electronic ballast vs. a 250W magnetic. It will make a difference if you want to put high light corals and clams on the bottom of your 24" tank (see BULBS below for further discussion on PAR).

Secondly, electronic ballasts will be more reliable in the long term than magnetics and you'll have certainty and consistency of electrical usage with an electronic ballast - it will run 400w regardless whereas 250w magnetics can actually draw up to 300w when in use. On a related note, electronics are also more consistent with respect to output according to Sanjay Joshi's results. There is more of a PAR variation in between different brands of magnetic ballasts so you may end up with either an underperformer or an overperformer. Electronics will also run cooler, are physically smaller and quite a bit lighter in weight than magnetics.

BULBS
Not sure how old the XM and URI bulbs that come with the PFO are, but if they have any life in them left they will be superior to what the other fixture has. Regardless of how happy people are with the actual "cheap Chinese" fixture they buy on e-Bay, there is almost universal dissatisfaction with the no-name bulbs that come with these fixtures. Some reports indicate that the "actinics" in some of these fixtures are just regular bulbs painted blue. You know exactly what you are getting with XMs and URIs Superactinics.

Further, since the PFO is SE and the generic unit is DE, you'll get more PAR out of the SE bulbs simply because the DE unit will require an extra glass UV shield which filters out PAR as well as UV. SE bulbs can be run bare and thus lose less PAR on the way down to the tank.

REFLECTORS
You should find out what type of reflectors the PFO has. They can range anywhere from aluminium to mirror-polished to hammertone. PFO also uses different types of reflectors from the crappy flat type to the better "parallel" style. The reflectors on the Chinese unit are puny and will not give the best spread or most even spread. Reflectors are extremely important in performance. Regardless, neither unit will have very good reflectors in the grand scheme of things - that would go to dedicated MH pendants like Lumenarc or Lumenbright.

Fluorescent BALLASTS
The Icecap 660 is a very versatile and reliable ballast. It can run T5s if you wanted and in fact will overdrive T5HOs producing more light at the cost of shorter bulb life.

OTHER
The PFO is butt ugly unless you like the Mad Max look. Moonlights are neat to have, but can be retrofitted on the PFO. The PFO also may have fans which can be important in the life of T5 bulbs - they tend to give more light and last longer when actively cooled.


I had a feeling you might get in on the technical side of this.
Thank you very much for an important set of factors in this decision.
There is a picture of the reflectors on the pfo unit in the picture I attached a couple posts up...
I believe they are the parallel kind?
The xm bulbs have 2 months use and the URI's are brand new.
would I really need to be concerned about enough light for high light corals with either one of these fixtures on a 24' depth?
My 2x150w HQI is giving me good color and I have sps from halfway on up...

[midgetwaiter]

Fluorescent BALLASTS
The Icecap 660 is a very versatile and reliable ballast. It can run T5s if you wanted and in fact will overdrive T5HOs producing more light at the cost of shorter bulb life.


Small note, URI T5 bulbs are properly designated as V-HO. They worked with Icecap to build bulbs that would last longer with their ballasts, provided adequate cooling they last a year.

[fkshiu]

I had a feeling you might get in on the technical side of this.
Thank you very much for an important set of factors in this decision.
There is a picture of the reflectors on the pfo unit in the picture I attached a couple posts up...
I believe they are the parallel kind?
The xm bulbs have 2 months use and the URI's are brand new.
would I really need to be concerned about enough light for high light corals with either one of these fixtures on a 24' depth?
My 2x150w HQI is giving me good color and I have sps from halfway on up...

PFO parallel reflectors look like this:
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/pfo-prf24/PFO+24%22+Parallel+Reflector.html

In truth, the PFO unit is probably a bit of overkill for a 24" deep tank like yours, but you'll probably never need to upgrade your lighting again. And the nice thing about PFO ballasts is that you can easily swap the 400w ballast out for, say, a 250w ballast in the future.

The other fixture will probably be fine for your tank if you get quality bulbs and notwithstanding any reliability issues, but there are better be aware that there are better fixtures out there both in terms of build quality, light output and energy efficiency.

The question you have to ask yourself is where you want to go in the LONG run? Do you plan on going all out SPS or mixed? Are you going to upgrade or downsize? How long do you plan on staying in the hobby? For example, if you want to go SPS crazy and plan on staying with a 4'-5' tank for the long haul, a PFO fixture makes more sense. However, if you want a mixed reef and are not sure how long you're going to keep this tank and/or even remain in the hobby, then the eBay one may make more sense.

[fkshiu]

Small note, URI T5 bulbs are properly designated as V-HO. They worked with Icecap to build bulbs that would last longer with their ballasts, provided adequate cooling they last a year.

That is correct! The key is the active cooling , i.e. having fans blowing on the endcaps and bulbs. Having T5HOs in close proximity to high wattage MH bulbs without active cooling can really affect their output/lifespan.