New Fish

[sphelps]

I picked up this fish from my LFS and put it in my SPS reef tank. Anyone by chance know what this guy eats?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Fish/DSC_1694.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Fish/DSC_1695.jpg

[michika]

The tilefish? It eats SPS polyps...sorry to say. Or at least the other less colourful tilefish do.

[Delphinus]

I've forgotten the latin id of that guy, so I'm having a hard time googling it to confirm - but if that guy is who I think he is, I think his diet is essentially exclusively SPS polyps..

[Delphinus]

Ah yes here we go. Oxymonacanthus longirostris : Beaked leatherjacket, harlequin filefish, yellow spotted filefish ..

http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/olongir.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/filefdgfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fishfish.htm
http://www.marinecenter.com/fish/filefishes/orangespottedfilefish/

Good luck! Such a pretty fish..

[Carmen]

Absolutely beautiful!

[tang daddy]

I put one in my tank awhile back not knowing that it eats sps polyps!! big mistake it took me a week to catch him out, thankfully the store took him back as they gave me misleading info, a fabulous fish but I will never buy another.

[justinl]

ooooohhhh bad choice. yes, major predator on SPS. Get that beauty out

this ladies and gents is why impulse buys are BAD. ...and why putting a fish on hold until proper research is done is good.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I picked up this fish from my LFS and put it in my SPS reef tank. Anyone by chance know what this guy eats?

LOL...sorry, maybe not so funny I guess but I couldn't help but laugh when you specifically said you put him in your SPS reef and then asked what he eats!

Too bad he will have to go...such a beautiful fish!

[AJ_77]

I picked up this fish from my LFS and put it in my SPS reef tank. Anyone by chance know what this guy eats?Is it April Fools again already?? :biggrin:

What a wry sense of humour!

[sphelps]

Yeah I was just having a little fun with you guys :biggrin:. I know the fish only feeds on SPS polyps and I special ordered it in. My LFS wouldn't normally bring these in.

I wanted a mated pair but didn't think I had enough SPS for two of these guys. Hopefully this guy will do good and spread out his feasting so impact is minimal. I've waited a long time for my SPS to grow out to the point where I'm pretty sure this fish will be sustainable, but time will tell.

[sphelps]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Fish/DSC_1700.jpg

[Trigger Man]

Yeah I was just having a little fun with you guys :biggrin:. I know the fish only feeds on SPS polyps and I special ordered it in. My LFS wouldn't normally bring these in.

I wanted a mated pair but didn't think I had enough SPS for two of these guys. Hopefully this guy will do good and spread out his feasting so impact is minimal. I've waited a long time for my SPS to grow out to the point where I'm pretty sure this fish will be sustainable, but time will tell.

Got to give you credit for trying it out even with the sps, I too have always liked that fish, my reason for not getting one is that my other fish in the tank would eat it.

[justinl]

got a fts? reason I ask is because I am unconvinced that anything smaller than a 75g heavily stocked with Acropora sp. would be able to support one of these guys. depending of course on how fast your coral grows.

[EmilyB]

Aw, sweet memories of SPS with polyp-less holes...:lol:

[sphelps]

got a fts? reason I ask is because I am unconvinced that anything smaller than a 75g heavily stocked with Acropora sp. would be able to support one of these guys. depending of course on how fast your coral grows.

It's a 130 gallon, 90% SPS corals, fully stocked with good growth. I'm not 100% sure how things will turn out but I'm wanted to try.

[untamed]

I think that is a really cool idea. In fact, it sounds a lot like the kind of thing I would like to try as well. Make sure you keep us posted on how it goes.

I think it would be really interesting to find out what effect this has on your coral and how much coral is consumed in order to keep the fish healthy.

[justinl]

ah well then just keep that camera handy :) Do you think there's any way you could quantify how much coral the guy eats over a period of time?

[spoot]

Do they eat anything else other than sps's?

[sphelps]

I don't think they eat anything else but will let you know if they do.

I will take pictures of the corals I notice him eating the most, continuous pictures of those corals should tell whether a sustainable food source is present.

[naesco]

What do you plan to do with the fish if you find it is seriously damaging your SPS?

[Skimmerking]

Nice Fish Steve. he could always go into you Refugium that you have there.

[sphelps]

What do you plan to do with the fish if you find it is seriously damaging your SPS?
Not sure, not really planning for the worst, just the best.

[marie]

Not sure, not really planning for the worst, just the best.

You could always send him to me, I already have someone picking at the polyps of my acros. He could eat to his hearts content :lol:

[Trigger Man]

Makes me wonder how big a tank one would need fully stocked with corals to make a couple of those beautiful coral eatting butterflys alive without slowly killing off all the corals in the tank

[Snaz]

I picked up this fish from my LFS and put it in my SPS reef tank. Anyone by chance know what this guy eats?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Fish/DSC_1694.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Fish/DSC_1695.jpg

That by far is the most beautiful fish I have ever seen. Good luck!

[naesco]

Not sure, not really planning for the worst, just the best.
Well maybe you should have thought about it before you ordered her.
But, lets hope for the best.

[AJ_77]

Well maybe you should have thought about it before you ordered her.I think he got a male.

.

[steve fedyk]

I should work if the fish eat frozen food to. The fish looks petty small, he should do just fine. How much do you think he will eat.
I have a juv Emperor and if I feed 2-4 an day the fish dosen't pick at the sps.
I did see him pick at the anemone a couple of times, I think he leard his lesson the hard way.:lol:

[EmilyB]

I think he got a male.

.

That matters? :neutral:

I don't think fish are disposable either, sorry.

[superduperwesman]

That matters? :neutral:

I don't think fish are disposable either, sorry.

ahah I don't think the worst case means flushing it down the toilet... if it starts to cause too much damage I'm sure he'll find a new owner

[sphelps]

I love all you fish huggers, you're either in this hobby or you're not. It's a little hypocritical to say purchasing a this tilefish is wrong but it's OK to buy a firefish, even though it has a good chance of jumping out of a tank even with covers, or a mandarin or pretty much any fish since none have a 100% chance of survival or sustainability, so where's the line? I think this fish has a very good chance of survival and sustainable impact on my corals.

[naesco]

sphelps

Pretty much all of us are fish huggers.

We mourn the loss of the little wrasse that jumps out of our tanks.
We spare no expense to provide the optimum conditions for the pets we keep in our tanks: expensive lighting , skimmers, RO/DI units, test kits not to mention food.
We struggle with providing for fish that get sick in our care and mourn their loss.
We feel quilty when we fail them, or take a risk with a fish and lose it.

If that makes us a fish hugger, I guess we all wear that badge.

[AJ_77]

That matters? :neutral:

I don't think fish are disposable either, sorry.Whoa, who said anything about disposable? The "male" comment was poking fun at Naesco, who always says "her." Steve called his fish "guy" severable times... haha, funny? Guess not...

I don't think there's much more a person can do than grow out a whole tank of SPS for a single fish. Seems like he put plenty of thought into this - to accuse him otherwise is petty. He's doing his best, as we all do.

Yes that makes him a serious fish hugger.

Good job, and good luck. And thanks for posting - takes some serious balls around here.:biggrin:

[marie]

... And thanks for posting - takes some serious balls around here.:biggrin:

Or none at all :razz:

[Aquattro]

Well, if someone asked me about these fish, I'd say don't try it unless you're willing to grow a tank full of SPS to feed it. He has, so let's give it a shot. If damage is minimal to SPS, then we may find we CAN keep these fish long term in large SPS tanks. This is how we learned to keep what we can now. He's made an informed decision and believes he can provide the food, so great!
I'm anxious to see the results.

[mark]

Doesn't sound like a huge fish, also wondering how much of a impact they would have on a tank.

[sphelps]

sphelps
Pretty much all of us are fish huggers.

Agreed, but some take it to another level accusing others of being irresponsible but by their reasoning we're all monsters, hypercritical. That's all I was saying.

[argan]

thats a beauty. I think they are like mandarins in that, if you are prepared to meet their needs then you should be fine.

[superduperwesman]

I just find it funny how everyone is so concerned about how this may be potentially cruel to the fish... but what about all those poor corals that are about to get eaten?? and nobody cares ahahah

I thought corals we're animals too so why is no one hugging them...?? oh its ok if it's the cycle of life... and yet personal enjoyment does not fall in to that cycle?? ahah I'm amused

Nice Fish!

[Aquattro]

We don't hug corals because they're sharp!

[marie]

We don't hug corals because they're sharp!

and slimey

[fishoholic]

I don't think there's much more a person can do than grow out a whole tank of SPS for a single fish. Seems like he put plenty of thought into this - to accuse him otherwise is petty. He's doing his best, as we all do.


I have to agree with this. He bought this fish knowing that it would eat his sps. It looks like he has provided enough sps for the fish to eat with hopes that the sps corals will withstand the damage done to them. I believe that is what he meant when he said he was planning for the best.

[fishoholic]

Or none at all :razz:

:lol: I have to agree :wink:

[superduperwesman]

We don't hug corals because they're sharp!

ahah not all of them are sharp

[EmilyB]

It's okay, I don't mind being beat up for being on the fish-hugger side...I'd hate to be on the fish-abuser side :lol:

But remember, I've been there with SPS eating fish, my Moo, the Pakistani butterfly...trust me when they eat the polyps out, they don't grow back....

So where would the fish go next?

Anyway....that's just the way I see it...:razz:

[marie]

It's okay, I don't mind being beat up for being on the fish-hugger side...I'd hate to be on the fish-abuser side :lol:

But remember, I've been there with SPS eating fish, my Moo, the Pakistani butterfly...trust me when they eat the polyps out, they don't grow back....

So where would the fish go next?

Anyway....that's just the way I see it...:razz:

I have a polyp eating regal angel, the polyps on my sps grow back. It takes awhile though

[dsaundry]

I have the tassled version of filefish in my aggressive/predator tank..they eat anything and are doing great...you have a real pretty fish there though, hope it does as well as mine are....keep the updated pics coming.

3430

[fishoholic]

It's okay, I don't mind being beat up for being on the fish-hugger side...I'd hate to be on the fish-abuser side :lol:

But remember, I've been there with SPS eating fish, my Moo, the Pakistani butterfly...trust me when they eat the polyps out, they don't grow back....

So where would the fish go next?

Anyway....that's just the way I see it...:razz:

Interesting... I would of thought some would grow back. If his polyps don't grow back I'm guessing he'll need to eventually buy some more sps.

I have a polyp eating regal angel, the polyps on my sps grow back. It takes awhile though

Did your angel only eat sps or did it eat other food as well? Just curious as to why your sps grew back while EmilyB's didn't.

[fishoholic]

I have the tassled version of filefish in my aggressive/predator tank..they eat anything and are doing great...you have a real pretty fish there though, hope it does as well as mine are....keep the updated pics coming.

3430

Very cool fish, I don't think I've ever seen one before.

[dsaundry]

I have 2 of them and although they are not very colourful they are very cool looking..Not for reef tanks at all though. I was told this when I got them at King Eds..they were really small but they are growing well..one of my favorite fish's...:biggrin:

[marie]

...



Did your angel only eat sps or did it eat other food as well? Just curious as to why your sps grew back while EmilyB's didn't.

Not "did"...does. I still have her :lol:
She eats everything. Her mouth is getting big enough now that when she takes a bite of an sps (actually just the acros) she can remove 2 or 3 polyps, tissue and some of the skeleton. I do have a lot of corals though and she doesn't just pick on 1, she roams the tank picking on them all so there is time for the coral to grow back before she comes visiting again

[naesco]

It's okay, I don't mind being beat up for being on the fish-hugger side...I'd hate to be on the fish-abuser side :lol:

But remember, I've been there with SPS eating fish, my Moo, the Pakistani butterfly...trust me when they eat the polyps out, they don't grow back....

So where would the fish go next?

Anyway....that's just the way I see it...:razz:

Emily, if the SPS are not replaced with more SPS, the fish gets flushed or starves.
But in the meantime they are beautiful pictures, arn't they?

[fishoholic]

Not "did"...does. I still have her :lol:
She eats everything. Her mouth is getting big enough now that when she takes a bite of an sps (actually just the acros) she can remove 2 or 3 polyps, tissue and some of the skeleton. I do have a lot of corals though and she doesn't just pick on 1, she roams the tank picking on them all so there is time for the coral to grow back before she comes visiting again

Oops :redface: sorry I knew you still had her not sure why I wrote did instead of does. Thanks for the info. I'm glad she spreads it out so your sps have a chance to somewhat recover before the next bite.

[justinl]

Emily, if the SPS are not replaced with more SPS, the fish gets flushed or starves.
But in the meantime they are beautiful pictures, arn't they?

okay naesco, we got your point the first time you posted. It was a perfectly valid point, but I don't see the point of your posting again unless you actually something else useful to add to the thread.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I can't believe anyone thinks this is cruel...jeez.

People get sooooo hypocritical in this very, very selfish hobby. Every single person on this board is selfishly keeping creatures, some of which are in rapid decline worldwide, in small glass boxes for their personal pleasure. Give me a break. The wasted energy and water in this hobby is embarrassing at the best of times and your worried about a single fish being kept in a tank set up specifically for it?

He has grown several colonies of sps for this fish to eat. He has a great tank size relative to the fish and is obviously dedicated to giving this fish a great chance.

Half the people here keep tangs in 65 or 75G tanks and this is a problem?

I think its great what you are doing sphelps and this is exactly why the hobby has come so far and we have the knowledge to keep some delicate species.

[sphelps]

FTS

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/FTS/DSC_1709.jpg

[fishmaster]

I can't believe anyone thinks this is cruel...jeez.

People get sooooo hypocritical in this very, very selfish hobby. Every single person on this board is selfishly keeping creatures, some of which are in rapid decline worldwide, in small glass boxes for their personal pleasure. Give me a break. The wasted energy and water in this hobby is embarrassing at the best of times and your worried about a single fish being kept in a tank set up specifically for it?

He has grown several colonies of sps for this fish to eat. He has a great tank size relative to the fish and is obviously dedicated to giving this fish a great chance.

Half the people here keep tangs in 65 or 75G tanks and this is a problem?

I think its great what you are doing sphelps and this is exactly why the hobby has come so far and we have the knowledge to keep some delicate species.

Thank you, I was going to post almost the same points. It's laughable how some people judge who is cruel and who isn't while they sit at home looking into their own box full of life taken from the wild. Get over it, we're all puting animals into a small home for our own pleasure. Do you honestly think you're better than the next guy because your tang is in a 6' tank and his/hers is in a 5' tank? How many fish die to get one that will survive in captivity? I'm guessing with some species, you wouldn't want to know.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

There is one reason I DO think this is a bad idea though... :)

That tank is beautiful! Hope he doesn't devastate those nice sps. Even if he does though, it will be a great experience trying to keep this fish.

[fishmaster]

There is one reason I DO think this is a bad idea though...

That tank is beautiful! Hope he doesn't devastate those nice sps. Even if he does though, it will be a great experience trying to keep this fish.

Ahh, I'd rather have my SPS tank devastated by that nice looking file fish than AEFW's!!!! Seriously, you could loose it all tommorow with a pump failure or something. Might as well enjoy it!

[justinl]

:biggrin: I see the file fish! you have a gorgeous tank steve, I sincerely hope it can keep up. is the file always up and about like that or does it tend to be reclusive?

edit: thought just occured to me. If down the road, the SPS are obviously not keeping up and are receding, would you consider changing your lighting spectrum to 6500K or so to get increased growth? Obviously at the cost of losing the brilliant colours in exchange for brown sticks, as well as a likely horrendous algae bloom. you could probably control the latter with biological control (army of snails and a foxface maybe?)

[Trigger Man]

Wow is all I've got to say about your tank, it looks great in there. I hope the file fish works out for you and that the SPS keeps looking so good.

[Delphinus]

thought just occured to me. If down the road, the SPS are obviously not keeping up and are receding, would you consider changing your lighting spectrum to 6500K or so to get increased growth? Obviously at the cost of losing the brilliant colours in exchange for brown sticks, as well as a likely horrendous algae bloom. you could probably control the latter with biological control (army of snails and a foxface maybe?)

I was just thinking the same thing. The best growth I ever had for SPS was with Iwasaki's, ... might be worth setting up a tank with quicker growing SPS under optimal PAR lighting for the sake of growing out the "food grade acros." :lol: Hey why not, there are plenty of things we do for the sake of favouring certain animals...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I was just thinking the same thing. The best growth I ever had for SPS was with Iwasaki's, ... might be worth setting up a tank with quicker growing SPS under optimal PAR lighting for the sake of growing out the "food grade acros." :lol: Hey why not, there are plenty of things we do for the sake of favouring certain animals...


I think this is a great idea. A frag tank of sorts with 6500K bulbs for growth. Figure out what he is eating the most and what is growing the fastest and grow as much as you can as fast as you can.

[naesco]

Interesting ethical discussion.

GSP/Fishmaster
Some non reefers are critical of reefers who keep fish and coral in glass boxes.
But reefers all agree that we than have an obligation to provide the optimum conditions for the fish and coral in our care. Nothing less is acceptable. Most reefers resist the urge to buy that colourful purple nudi or whatever because experts have already told us the survival liklihood. To attempt to justify such purchase for the purpose of improving the hobby IMO is nothing more than an attempt to justify a wrong purchase. The fact is that the advances that have been made in fish and coral care are not made by us on this or any other board. The advances in care are being made by scientists and fish and coral experts.

Justin, in fairness, I chose not to reply to his repost.

Sphelps, your tank is beautiful and your photography outstanding, but I would like to know what is happening now as you have had the fish for a few days.
Is he eating? SPS? Significant damage? Is he eating any other food?
How are your SPS reacting?
Would appreciate an update when you can. tks
Wayne Ryan

[justinl]

wayne, I am glad you're not getting all up in arms with me; my goal was not to incite anything. flame wars suck.

steve, one more thought, if you do decide to set a 6500k food-acro grow tank (doooooooo iiiiit :D), Maybe present some brown sticks to the filefish without changing your display tank's lighting. I'd be interested if there might be a preference to slower growing polyps rather than fast growing polyps or vice versa. Wish we could somehow do a nutritional profile on the two to compare if the filefish does exhibit a preference.

[superduperwesman]

The advances in care are being made by scientists and fish and coral experts.

I think some DIY people would disagree. I've seen a lot of randoms come up with new and innovative ideas that I think you could easily argue to having improved coral care

Plus who says scientists and fish/coral experts aren't on forums??

Plus the market demand, which is in part influenced by forums, is likely a reason why some scientists do research and likely how, in part, people become fish and coral experts.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Interesting ethical discussion.

GSP/Fishmaster
Some non reefers are critical of reefers who keep fish and coral in glass boxes.
But reefers all agree that we than have an obligation to provide the optimum conditions for the fish and coral in our care. Nothing less is acceptable. Most reefers resist the urge to buy that colourful purple nudi or whatever because experts have already told us the survival liklihood. To attempt to justify such purchase for the purpose of improving the hobby IMO is nothing more than an attempt to justify a wrong purchase. The fact is that the advances that have been made in fish and coral care are not made by us on this or any other board. The advances in care are being made by scientists and fish and coral experts.

Justin, in fairness, I chose not to reply to his repost.

Sphelps, your tank is beautiful and your photography outstanding, but I would like to know what is happening now as you have had the fish for a few days.
Is he eating? SPS? Significant damage? Is he eating any other food?
How are your SPS reacting?
Would appreciate an update when you can. tks
Wayne Ryan

No one is justifying the wrong purpose. The wrong purchase would have been me if say I bought this fish and put him in my soft coral dominated tank. I actually do have one acro though, so maybe it would have been fine? THAT would be justifying a bad purchase.

Are you actually serious about advances in the hobby being made by scientists? There are relatively few biologists doing anything for this hobby unless its to make a profit. Most marine biologists are not working in the commercial aquarium hobby. Many of the advancements in this hobby have come straight from reefers. These boards are proof of it everyday.

Not to mention, a majority of retailers/manufacturers are on these forums and many, many of the advancements in equipment have come from OUR advice/needs/observations, ect...all from these kind of boards. ;)

[midgetwaiter]

Emily, if the SPS are not replaced with more SPS, the fish gets flushed or starves.
But in the meantime they are beautiful pictures, arn't they?

No this particular filefish will just turn around and start eating frozen mysis like most other orange spots do. It's not exactly an easy fish to keep but it's not really difficult either.

Get better information before you start whining Wayne.


The fact is that the advances that have been made in fish and coral care are not made by us on this or any other board. The advances in care are being made by scientists and fish and coral experts.


Demonstrably false, see www.marinebreeder.org

[naesco]

Are you actually serious about advances in the hobby being made by scientists? There are relatively few biologists doing anything for this hobby unless its to make a profit. Most marine biologists are not working in the commercial aquarium hobby. Many of the advancements in this hobby have come straight from reefers. These boards are proof of it everyday.

I am absolutely serious. There are marine scientists on marine scientific forums who do nothing but study fish and coral
There are expert marine fish and coral aquarists. I don't have to tell you who they are. We all buy their books. The advances come from scientists to experts and than to us. We should be guided by their advice.

That is not to say that members of this board do not learn from the advice and experience of others on the board. That is its function and the board is doing a great job in educating us all.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Are you actually serious about advances in the hobby being made by scientists? There are relatively few biologists doing anything for this hobby unless its to make a profit. Most marine biologists are not working in the commercial aquarium hobby. Many of the advancements in this hobby have come straight from reefers. These boards are proof of it everyday.

I am absolutely serious. There are marine scientists on marine scientific forums who do nothing but study fish and coral
There are expert marine fish and coral aquarists. I don't have to tell you who they are. We all buy their books. The advances come from scientists to experts and than to us. We should be guided by their advice.

That is not to say that members of this board do not learn from the advice and experience of others on the board. That is its function and the board is doing a great job in educating us all.


I never said there were no marine biologist working to advance the hobby. I simply said it was very false to state as you did, that we do absolutely nothing for the hobby.

You know what you should do though if you want to accuse someone of mistreating fish...go to Youtube and look for the nano cube (I think its around 20G) with the Porcupine Puffer, Snowflake eel and Triggerfish. Oh and think there was a damsel too if I remember correctly.

[sphelps]

So am I still cruel? Or are we all over that? I'm a little confused with all this talk about scientists and biologists :lol:

I think the fish is still adjusting, it seems to stick to one area of the tank and doesn't venture very far, when it first went in it took a few bits from some SPS but I haven't noticed anything since. Not sure how often this guy needs to eat but so far no noticeable damage, it's far too early for that. My one hope is that the fish is not species specific and will only eat polyps from one type of SPS, if it is not I have no concerns.

I will post some macro pictures of some of the corals I find him eating the most, this should allow for some good before and after analysis.

I don't think I will be switching my lighting, I've gone through a lot to get it where I like it, there are 6 39W T5s with reflectors and 2 250W DE halides. I can increase growth and coral vitality with zeovit additives and maintaining high calcium and alkalinity.

I would like to change my setup a little and make room for a larger frag tank and a dosing system which is in my future plans but I can't do it right now. I like the fish but I'm not going to go too far out of my way, if that makes me a bad person so be it, but I'm not any worse than the rest of you.

[mark]

sphelps, just wondering is it taking other food?

[sphelps]

sphelps, just wondering is it taking other food?
Nope

[Delphinus]

FWIW, my suggestion for the 6500K lighting was for a different tank, like a frag growout tank. You would not want to use that lighting over your main display as you have it now. The worst case scenario would be that the fish would have to be removed from this display and moved into that one. :)

[superduperwesman]

Fwiw??

[Aquattro]

Fwiw??

For what it's worth

[Marlin65]

Does naesco actually own a tank or does he just tell people what fish they should not keep. Don't want to start a war just wondering as I would like to see some of his tanks if he has any.

Some stats on what we are all part of just to put this file fish in perspective.
This hobby is not environmentally friendly but if it was not for us there would not be the captive breeding and aquaculture that we have today and hopefully at some point we will be able to sustain this industry.
http://www.aaas.org/international/africa/coralreefs/ch4.shtml

[superduperwesman]

For what it's worth

ohhhhh...... thanks

[Keri]

FWIW I think it's a beautiful fish and a LUCKY one at that, most don't go into the proper setup and starve, sphelps' can actually feed it :)

I love my corals but I don't kid myself that they have much feeling - or I wouldn't be able to live with myself when I cut them up and glue them to rocks!! If it came to choosing between the fish and the coral I'd sacrifice the coral.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

FWIW I think it's a beautiful fish and a LUCKY one at that, most don't go into the proper setup and starve, sphelps' can actually feed it :)

I love my corals but I don't kid myself that they have much feeling - or I wouldn't be able to live with myself when I cut them up and glue them to rocks!! If it came to choosing between the fish and the coral I'd sacrifice the coral.

So would I...I am more of a fish person than a coral person though. Corals are just there to decorate the fishes home. No different than putting a painting on the wall :)


But I don't eat my paintings.

[sphelps]

Since we're on the subject I'm more into the coral, fish are just there for some movement and they require too much attention with the feeding and.. well just the feeding but that can still be a chore. The way I see it a fish is a fish, for the most part easily replaceable and a dime a dozen, not really a collectors item. Coral can sometimes be one in a million and is definitely more of a collectors item. Yes they do have rare fish that are hard to get but for the most part you can always get them and they will always be the same.

I would definitely go with coral over fish. In the future I would really like to have a coral tank with only self sustaining fish and coral. You know a couple mandarins, pair of tilefish, nothing special :biggrin:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Since we're on the subject I'm more into the coral, fish are just there for some movement and they require too much attention with the feeding and.. well just the feeding but that can still be a chore. The way I see it a fish is a fish, for the most part easily replaceable and a dime a dozen, not really a collectors item. Coral can sometimes be one in a million and is definitely more of a collectors item. Yes they do have rare fish that are hard to get but for the most part you can always get them and they will always be the same.

I would definitely go with coral over fish. In the future I would really like to have a coral tank with only self sustaining fish and coral. You know a couple mandarins, pair of tilefish, nothing special :biggrin:

Sounds like it would be a nice tank!

I guess it depends on how you look at it...I don't see the hobby as collecting items like you would hockey cards or stamps. To me these are pets and when it comes to my puffers, more like family :) Not replaceable at all. I lost my dogface to jumping a few months back and did get another but its just not the same at all. Personality of the two fish is quite different. I have lost tangs and "replaced" them though and barely knew the difference.

Actually I guess I kind of see things completely opposite of you ;) Corals are easily replaceable to me!

[naesco]

No need for wars here. Thanks for the update sphelps.

Re: who adds to finding out the care of our fish/coral inverts
scientists, experts, hobbyists may I give you an example.

I want to set up a tank housing only florescent corals.
From marine scientists I now know that the degree of florescense its determined (apart from enviromental conditions) by the genes of the LPS. I have to find them by night diving.
From lighting scientists (not vendors) I am determining the specific lighting conditions that cause optimum florescence; lighting, depth of tank etc. Really heavy stuff.
Scientists announced in September that they had found that some 20 or so fish are florescent. This is new information.
When I have all this information, I will set up the tank.
When and if successful, I will share the information on this board. Hopefully I can corral a tank photographer to take pictures.
(If you want to get an idea of what I am striving for turn off all the tank lights and the lights in the room and shine a LED light [from a penlite or the lighters that have an LED light on them on your coral]

You can see than that it is the scientists and experts that contribute the expertise. All I as a hobbyist is doing is starting the ball rolling and hopefully sharing my experience here.
To the poster who asked, I have had a marine tank since around 1987ish.

[fishoholic]

So am I still cruel? Or are we all over that? I'm a little confused with all this talk about scientists and biologists :lol:


You bought a fish that you researched first and provided it with the the best case scenario for optimal survival and longevity. If that makes you cruel then I'm crazy!

Wait, maybe I shouldn't go there...:lol: :wink:

[Marlin65]

No need for wars here. Thanks for the update sphelps.

Re: who adds to finding out the care of our fish/coral inverts
scientists, experts, hobbyists may I give you an example.

I want to set up a tank housing only florescent corals.
From marine scientists I now know that the degree of florescense its determined (apart from enviromental conditions) by the genes of the LPS. I have to find them by night diving.
From lighting scientists (not vendors) I am determining the specific lighting conditions that cause optimum florescence; lighting, depth of tank etc. Really heavy stuff.
Scientists announced in September that they had found that some 20 or so fish are florescent. This is new information.
When I have all this information, I will set up the tank.
When and if successful, I will share the information on this board. Hopefully I can corral a tank photographer to take pictures.
(If you want to get an idea of what I am striving for turn off all the tank lights and the lights in the room and shine a LED light [from a penlite or the lighters that have an LED light on them on your coral]

You can see than that it is the scientists and experts that contribute the expertise. All I as a hobbyist is doing is starting the ball rolling and hopefully sharing my experience here.
To the poster who asked, I have had a marine tank since around 1987ish.
Thanks for answering that I was just curios.
I do appreciate the knowledge you bring to the board.
can't wait to see that tank when you get it up. I would even be willing to take the pictures for you.
Cheers

[naesco]

Thanks for answering that I was just curios.
I do appreciate the knowledge you bring to the board.
can't wait to see that tank when you get it up. I would even be willing to take the pictures for you.
Cheers


Thanks. I will take your offer up when I am ready.
Do you think you can borrow Sphelps' camera?

[Marlin65]

He is to far away, but my camera is not too bad.:wink:

[Keri]

FWIW I think it's a beautiful fish and a LUCKY one at that, most don't go into the proper setup and starve, sphelps' can actually feed it :)

I love my corals but I don't kid myself that they have much feeling - or I wouldn't be able to live with myself when I cut them up and glue them to rocks!! If it came to choosing between the fish and the coral I'd sacrifice the coral.


Edit: I feel the need to add that I look at my tank to look at the corals more often than the fish, watching them grow makes me happy, but I cater to the welfare of the fish first and foremost because they actually have feelings - make sense?

[2manytanks]

Edit: I feel the need to add that I look at my tank to look at the corals more often than the fish, watching them grow makes me happy, but I cater to the welfare of the fish first and foremost because they actually have feelings - make sense?

Perfectly. Well expressed and exactly how I feel.

[WuHT]

Since we're on the subject I'm more into the coral, fish are just there for some movement and they require too much attention with the feeding and.. well just the feeding but that can still be a chore. The way I see it a fish is a fish, for the most part easily replaceable and a dime a dozen, not really a collectors item. Coral can sometimes be one in a million and is definitely more of a collectors item. Yes they do have rare fish that are hard to get but for the most part you can always get them and they will always be the same.

I would definitely go with coral over fish. In the future I would really like to have a coral tank with only self sustaining fish and coral. You know a couple mandarins, pair of tilefish, nothing special :biggrin:

Corals look the same to me.

I suppose this is the difference between a pet owner and a gardener.

[sphelps]

The fish has become very comfortable and ventures to all parts of the tank. He's got a ferocious apatite and is constantly looking for food. The good news is that he's not picky, eats every type of SPS coral and even likes the odd zoo skirt. No noticeable damage to coral at this point :biggrin:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Fish/DSC_1746.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Fish/DSC_1747.jpg

No surprise I think millepora is his favorite.

[StirCrazy]

just make sure you have garlic... and lemon..

If it eats the corals so much they can't recover, get a pan nice and hot.. add a bit of almond oil, garlic, and sear both sides, finnish in the oven and add lemon.

Steve

[AJ_77]

Haw haw haw...
Steve, you crack me up.

COOL fish, continued good luck with it.

[naesco]

Am I the only one that tried to shoe off that fruit fly off the computer screen.
ha ha

[superduperwesman]

Very cool fish... I think I'll get one for my 10 gallon contest tank :D

[justinl]

glad to hear it's still going well. cool feeding pic.

[AJ_77]

if anyone in Calgary wants to have a go with one of these fish, there's 2 at Oceans right now - $27.99

sounds like a deal.

[untamed]

if anyone in Calgary wants to have a go with one of these fish, there's 2 at Oceans right now - $27.99

sounds like a deal.

That seems like a good deal...but the food can be expensive!

Is this fish still doing OK? No problem sustaining his needs so far? Does he tend to eat from any particular part of the corals (growth tips?, base?) Does he eat a large spot from a coral or just a polyp here and there? Any shots of coral that have been snacked upon?

[sphelps]

Fish is doing really good so far, he prefers acropora to other types of sps and only eats the polyps but from all parts of the coral. Corals are not showing any sign of stress but they definitely have less polyps or show less extension.

[superduperwesman]

I also saw a tiny one at Big Als.

Does the fish seem to eat anything else besides the corals?? Any kinds of food interest it?

[sphelps]

I also saw a tiny one at Big Als.

Does the fish seem to eat anything else besides the corals?? Any kinds of food interest it?
Nah not really any interest in other food. I've read of others having success with frozen food but it's extremely rare.

[nanoreefer]

I had one of these guys and he ate more hair algea and sand than SPS, also took pellets and frozen angle food I smeared into a rock, I thought it was a female and tried to pair it up with a male but he killed the first one then ate nothing and died:cry:, but if i see a healthy one iam going to try again, great fish for sure

[untamed]

How is this fish doing? Is he still eating SPS polyps exclusively? How are the SPS doing?

[OCDP]

I am curious, and I apologize if already been asked/mentioned. How long, roughly, does it take for the new polyps to grow back on SPS (moreso the acro's and so on..) ?? Obviously you've got enough SPS in there to keep him going. Like I say, just curious...

[sphelps]

How is this fish doing? Is he still eating SPS polyps exclusively? How are the SPS doing?
Fish is good, SPS also all look healthy just don't show much polyp extension during the day anymore but polyp extension at night seems normal. And yes only eating SPS polyps with the occasional interest in zoo skirts but no frozen food interest what so ever.

I am curious, and I apologize if already been asked/mentioned. How long, roughly, does it take for the new polyps to grow back on SPS (moreso the acro's and so on..) ?? Obviously you've got enough SPS in there to keep him going. Like I say, just curious...
I would be curious on this as well, I can't say for sure how long it takes as it's pretty hard to keep track and I don't pay that much attention. All I can say for sure is that they do grow back in what seems to be a reasonable time frame.

[my2rotties]

I am not at this same level of experience to even be able to make much comment aside of the tank and fish are beautiful. As an observation from gardening though, we pick back buds, stems and stalks to enocourage more growth from our plants. We divide plants to allow them space to grow or they snuff themselves out. If we pick back one bud, two will grow back in its place. If we divide one plant we can make two or more, since it is not fighting for space and food.

Could it be possible that adding this fish to his tank will be beneficial to the corals growing in it, since the fish is essentially doing what a gardener does to promote growth? I dunno, it's just a newbie observation and I have no proof or knowledge that it might happen, but it could.

[sphelps]

This is a picture took yesterday of my yellow mille. This coral is by far the fishes favorite. As you can see not much for polyp extension but still looks healthy.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Corals/IMG_0099.jpg

[Delphinus]

Seems to be doing just fine. A little less hairiness is an insignificant cost to pay if the fish is doing fine. :)

[sphelps]

Yeap, it's beneficial in my mind as I get better color from a lot of my SPS since some have brown polyps.

[OCDP]

Gorgeous milli... and photo.

[BlueAbyss]

Corals look the same to me.

I suppose this is the difference between a pet owner and a gardener.

One can be both a pet owner and gardener... most reef tank owners seem to tend toward the gardener side, with beautiful aquascaping, colorful corals, etc. Those that don't have FOWLR tanks, where the fish involved would simply devour any and all invertebrates, and the aquascaping is lower-key but since the focus is the fish anyhow, this is rarely an issue.

All aquarists are both to some extent however... we want the best for the creatures in our glass boxes, but also want the tank to be attractive. The difference is in the pets... Chihuahua that eats plankton or German Shepard that eats chihuahuas? The chihuahua will do little damage to your garden, but a german shepard can destroy said garden in minutes.

I am not at this same level of experience to even be able to make much comment aside of the tank and fish are beautiful. As an observation from gardening though, we pick back buds, stems and stalks to enocourage more growth from our plants. We divide plants to allow them space to grow or they snuff themselves out. If we pick back one bud, two will grow back in its place. If we divide one plant we can make two or more, since it is not fighting for space and food.

Could it be possible that adding this fish to his tank will be beneficial to the corals growing in it, since the fish is essentially doing what a gardener does to promote growth? I dunno, it's just a newbie observation and I have no proof or knowledge that it might happen, but it could.

I noticed the parallels between the two hobbies in the first 5 seconds of having a freshwater tank years ago... corals and many other marine organisms are just too similar to plants in many ways to not see other parallels. That's why I'll be mixing corals and plants in my reef :cool:

[Skimmerking]

welll looking at this picture the fish looks healthy and well done Steve , love your fish. i think that this fish due to its color loves the yellow, orange, blue milli's :lol::lol: that is why he is that color LOL
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Fish/DSC_1746.jpg

[sphelps]

welll looking at this picture the fish looks healthy and well done Steve , love your fish. i think that this fish due to its color loves the yellow, orange, blue milli's :lol::lol: that is why he is that color LOL

You're probably right. The fish poops a fluorescent green slime that I swear would even glow in the dark.

[justinl]

huh this fish seems to have done a lot less damage than i had expected. since you mention the really bright poop... have you ever tried putting the poop under actinic only lighting and see if it fluoresces? im actually half serious :) I don't see it having any use for the coral's fluorescent pigments so maybe they pass largely undigested (although i would be greatly surprised if they haven't been denatured and are nonfunctional)?

[Snaz]

I was curious how this guy is doing. Any updates?

[sphelps]

Death by Tunze, sorry folks.

[naesco]

Are you planning on trying this again.

[sphelps]

Are you planning on trying this again.
Yes, but not right now with the current setup. I've never lost a fish to a tunze before so I don't want to get another one unless I can be sure it won't happen again. I also want to make sure I have a few more colonies of millepora as it was definitely a favorite and since I only had the one it did take a good beating.

[fishoholic]

Death by Tunze, sorry folks.

:cry: That sucks, sorry to hear that.

[lastlight]

There have been some threads on RC that speculated that systematically fragging small pieces off corals actually speeds growth. I can't wait to see how this goes...it may even help you!

[por2stylz]

thats oxymancantus longrostris "orange spotted filefish funny how in the picture you ask what he eats answer is in the pic YOUR SPS!!!!! lol

[naesco]

Yeah I was just having a little fun with you guys :biggrin:. I know the fish only feeds on SPS polyps and I special ordered it in. My LFS wouldn't normally bring these in.

I wanted a mated pair but didn't think I had enough SPS for two of these guys. Hopefully this guy will do good and spread out his feasting so impact is minimal. I've waited a long time for my SPS to grow out to the point where I'm pretty sure this fish will be sustainable, but time will tell.


Merry Christmas!

[por2stylz]

well i was on the 13th page of this thread so i didnt see that, well i have no sps left alive for some time my tank can never support sps i just keep buying them and my filefish thrives of nls pellets, we all are used to eating a staple diet when we were children but hey we adapt and eat other foods now am i right? Key to sucess is water parameters and no stress to this fish so that it can try new foods and be happy

[por2stylz]

if any 1 in the toronto or gta area has this fish and knows they cant take care of it no longer ill gladly trade or buy your osff from you and nurse it back to health just msg me