Starchoice....

[EmilyB]

:biggrin:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/StarDSC00004_rs.JPG

[BC_Grl]

Wow, does that ever look awesome.

[EmilyB]

I forgot he likes these OSI stick ons so much.

He is a detritus, algae eater, and if you ever see them buy six..... :razz: :lol:

[AJ_77]

Where did you find this one, and how much was it?

Nice colour...

[EmilyB]

About three years ago...from saltwaterfantasies
.com.

I've talked to him several times since, but he isn't getting them in his shipments. In some intensive starfish research I did looking for something else....I actually came across these as "common" starfish....

I am so worried about losing my last specimen, I said, Barry, can we cut it in two..... :idea:

So.....call to the retailers...these are superb reefsafe starfish. With clams or whatever....

[fishnut]

What kind of starfish is it ?

What are OSI stick-ons and where do you get them ?

[Van down by the river]

Got a picture from the top? Maybe we can id it. Do you know which region it came from? eg: Indo, Red sea,etc?

[EmilyB]

What kind of starfish is it ?

It is an orange knobby starfish. FFE used to sell them alternately with fromia stars in a reef cleanup package.

I've found several references to the star, but never a species name.


What are OSI stick-ons and where do you get them ?

They are stick-on spirulina tabs, lots of algae eating fish love them, angels especially. I'm having trouble getting them locally, and have mailordered them in the past from various places.

Van, I'm pretty sure he said Indo.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/orangeknobtop.jpg

[AJ_77]

Is this the same one? (From seasky.org)

Orange Starfish
(Fromia monolis)
This colorful orange and red starfish is one of the most common species. Its colorful markings and docile nature make it quite popular among aquarium hobbyists. This starfish grows to about 4 inches in diameter, and is commonly found in the Indian ocean near Indonesia where is feeds on small sponges and algae.


If it is this common, perhaps someone could get some in for us.
Maybe that new guy off Edmonton Trail...

[EmilyB]

Well, over time, and a lot of enquiries, it was pretty much established that this was not a fromia species, at least from what people told me.

However, they are supposed to be just as good :biggrin: , I'd be interested in trying one anyway.

P.S. The lure of the orange knobby is it actually eats detritrus from inside the holes in the rock.

[christyf5]

mmmmmm....deeeetriiiiitus......... :razz:

[christyf5]

Hey I think I found it in my Inverts book by Julian Sprung. Theres a pic of one that looks just like it. Echinaster echinophorus from the carribean?? Eats sponges, microalgae. I'll email the page to you Em.

C:)

[EmilyB]

I pulled the echinaster thing a while back. someone told me they wouldn't be collected for our area.

The echinaster has much longer arms.

keep looking please :cool:

[christyf5]

aww nuts

thats the only thing remotely close in my book

[EmilyB]

BTW, I have tons of sponges. It doesn't eat sponge.

[EmilyB]

Anything really worth having isn't easy.... :lol: I'm gonna email the guy one more time. I don't know how conversant he is with his suppliers...

[One_Divided]

nice star, but how many channels does it give you?

[Dorkel Marine 1]

if you find anything out on its name and it being shipped please lets us coast guys know. I would be most interested in purchasing one. Or two.

George Muller

[Delphinus]

I think I saw marinedepotlive.com was selling them as potentially part of a cleaner crew, you'd get an orange knobby OR a red fromia. But alas, still no latin name for the orange knobby..
http://www.marinedepotlive.com/tccb304.html

Actually, I keep finding several pages with this starfish pictured with pleas of "If anyone knows the latin name of this starfish please let us know .... "

Would this be worthwhile posing the ID question to say, Dr. Ron?

[Bob I]

mmmmmm....deeeetriiiiitus......... :razz:

I am wondering if there is a different definition of Detritus than the one the Oxford dictionary uses. It says that detritus is matter formed by detrition such as gravel, silt, debris. Detrition is defined as wearing away by rubbing. .
Then again Oxford is Brtish so it might have a different meaning than the American dictionaries. :question: :question: :confused:

[AJ_77]

I am wondering if there is a different definition of Detritus than the one the Oxford dictionary uses...
Of course there is, Bob. It's the one familiar to most of us, commonly accepted in our community as meaning:

"Accumulated material; debris."

It is widely accepted that the term refers to the gunk that our cleaners clean. You didn't know this??

Or just bored again...

[BC_Grl]

AJ- couldn't you tell?? :mrgreen:
He's just bored! :rolleyes: Either that or bragging...

[Van down by the river]

I'd have to say Christyf5 got it right=Echinaster echinophorus.

It has very little resemblance to any Fromia stars. I haven't seen the sprung picture but it is identical to a few found elsewhere.

Per Fossa/Nilsen:
They say it is a Caribean species reaching 7cm
"Feeds primarily on detritus and microscopic invertabrates,possibly also on algae.Will often not accept substitute foods."
Well you've obviously found the right substitute!

They go on to say it is mainly a shallow species ranging from Coral rubble/Reef/and Mangrove areas.
Fairly hardy once adapted to conditions.
As with many inverts they say it doesn't appear to be a problem with corals and inverts but it cannot be totally trusted.

This seems to coincide with the behaviour of yours quite well. References elsewhere suggests that this species or some of it's close relatives are attracted to light. Do you find yours is more active in the day?

Anyways you are lucky to have it in your tank.

[Bob I]

It is widely accepted that the term refers to the gunk that our cleaners clean. You didn't know this??

Or just bored again...

I guess I was just moved to see if the dictionary gave the same meaning as we do. The dictionary does not, so I am wondering if someone in the reefing community just invented that meaning, and we all came to accept it as being correct? Or if there is another deeper meaning. As you know I am always curious about such things. :question:

And yes Jeanna, it seemed like a perfectly legitimate question to me. I was not in any way bragging. I of course do not need to defend myself to you. You are more than welcome to think as you wish. But be so kind as to keep it a thought,.

[AJ_77]

Sheesh Bob, I quoted another definition... :rolleyes:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=detritus
While the dictionaries do give more than one definition, the common understanding here is straightforward enough.

I sure hope we can find a good source for these beautiful starfish.

Did I mention that orange is my favourite colour? Mmmm....

[christyf5]

So Bob, what kind of meaning do you think we are giving the word "detritus"??

[EmilyB]

Buy the Oxford Science Dictionary...you'll love it...it's much more applicable to the hobby..... :biggrin: Yes, detritus is in there.....just as we know it and love it ! But I'm not typing it out....... :razz:

[Bob I]

So Bob, what kind of meaning do you think we are giving the word "detritus"??

I always felt we were calling waste produced by the animals in our tanks as detritus, which seems to be somewhat different than the dictionary meaning.

[EmilyB]

Yes Van,

I thought echinaster was the closest choice when I first got it. I have the baensch atlases. However, the pic is not really anywhere close. Nor any of the online echinaster pics. :confused: Sounds for sure like a similar type starfish tho.

The echinaster in the Baensch atlas is called a red starfish as a common name (strangely enough)...and says they come from the Mediterranean and the Eastern Atlantic from Brittany to the Gold Coast. They are also much larger.

Anyway, the guy told me he has never been able to order them in. They come in accidentally with "red starfish"...... he orders.:rolleyes:

Doesn't matter, I just wanted to give a heads up, so everyone is out there watching for them :biggrin: Mystery stars !

[Tau2301]

Is it from that old musical where some lady sings to some bratty kids that if they don’t behave they will become “Supercalifradulousanxpaladetritus” or some thing like that.

[Van down by the river]

Hey EmilyB I know the one you are thinking of and it's not the same one.
Someone has my copy of the Baesch atlas so I can't check that one.
If you have a Modern Coral Reef Aquarim Vol 4 you will see an almost exact picture of your starfish.
I also believe the one you are thinking of is a sub-temperate species.
Even if you disagree with me, It is still in that family. It has the small pores on it's body that are indictive of this family. If I had a scanner I'd send you what I have,but I don't. If you search on google images you'll see a picture of it. Unfortunately the website is no longer active.
I'll see if it can be ordered through any of the suppliers I know.

[Delphinus]

Van, I agree that it is likely "within the family" but I don't think it's Echinaster echinophorus either. (I had one of this guys for a time too.) Although it is the closest looking, there are subtle enough differences to cast a slight doubt in my mind.

I was pretty sure the supplier said he had gotten them in Indo orders. (Unless he was mistaken.) In case that helps the focus a bit...

[Lofus]

It could be a Oreaster reticulatus

[StirCrazy]

I will have to put my vote in for Echinaster (Othilia) echinophorus.

Is it possable to get a macro of one of the "arms" showing the skin texture and the spines a bit better Emily?

Steve

[EmilyB]

Thanks for sending me the pic you had Christy :biggrin:

That one is the closest in resemblance for sure.....I can't find anything additional on the species or more pics online - only reseach papers come up for that species...lol

Next time he's cruising, maybe I'll try to grab some macros. Pretty much doubt anyone carries them anyway. I should have bought a bunch then and tried to get them to breed.......doh...

[Van down by the river]

Well it is definitely Not :Oreaster reticulatus
http://www.aquarium.net/0797/0797_2.shtml
http://www.seasky.org/reeflife/images/starfish_cushion.jpg

By the way O. reticulatus (<50cm)is also a Caribean species, although the similiar Oreaster occidentalis renamed Pentaceraster cf. cumingi(<20cm) is an Hawaii to Eastern Pacific species. Neither resemble Emily's star. Both are fairly large when compared to Emily's.

I am curious EmilyB and Delphinus, What about this star do you feel is different? Delphinus you mentioned "subtle enough differences", what are they? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I view this as a debate.

As to the store owner saying he thinks it is Indo....I think that was just a standard reply. A majority of store owners/employees are anything but knowledgable, and before every store owner posts a reply to that....notice I said a "majority" not ALL. Anyways It may have come through an LA shipment from QM or a similiar supplier that consolidate shipments from around the world for their availability list.

Even though Emily is probably tired of this debate by now, I too would like to see a closer picture too.



I couldn't get the link to work sorry.
This is what I believe you have:
http://www.nhm.org/guana/bvi-invt/bvi-surv/images/echi-i03/06x32.htm

[StirCrazy]

Just another possability, the Echinaster (othilia) sentus from Florida, has longer arms that are a little less spiny than thoes of the Echinaster (Othilia) echinophorus.

This is the Echinaster (Othilia) echinophorus.

http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/star.jpg

here is the one you posted (I just want to see them togeather.)
http://www.members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/orangeknobtop.jpg

Steve

[Delphinus]

Oh, just subtle differences I thought in the size of the "warts." When I was determined to find out what this was, when I was trying to find out, I had discounted that species ID, going on that it was "definitely from Indonesia." But you're right, it was probably a wholesaler who threw it in there. Who knows.

It looks way more like E. echinophorus than E. sentus though. But the more I see more pictures of Echinaster sp. in general the more I think the general shape, and descriptions of habits and behaviours, sound about right.

So EmilyB what do YOU think?

[EmilyB]

Well, the only other hint I have is that he said he ONLY gets them in when he does his indonesian order and orders red starfish like these below, and the little orange ones just show up mixed in...

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=23&pCatId=578

Guess I could compare them if I could ever even FIND one.... :lol:

[EmilyB]

Is it possable to get a macro of one of the "arms" showing the skin texture and the spines a bit better Emily?

Steve

http://www.members.shaw.ca/beans666/StarDSC00007_rs.JPG

[EmilyB]

one more

http://www.members.shaw.ca/beans666/Starhello.jpg

[Buccaneer]

LOL :smile:

[StirCrazy]

Damn, I almost spit my coffee :eek:

hehe.. ya my guess will still say as "Echinaster (Othilia) echinophorus" the only thing that looks different is the color and that is close enuf to be just a natrual varaiation.

Steve

[Samw]

Deb I predict computer-generated imagery will be your next hobby.

[Bob I]

I need more wine.
:BIG:

[Van down by the river]

Well you can all accuse me of beating a dead horse, but here goes......
Thud.....Thud........Thud........

It seemed there was still doubt as to the identity of this little critter... :confused: Well I enjoy a challenge......I would also like to point out that something as simple as slight color variation is not enough to cast doubt on what species this is.
I always like to back myself up with facts (If I don't know something, I find someone that does). Maybe a crazy guy(me) :eek: on a web forum has no weight but maybe an extremely well published author/diver/photographer/researcher would, so I asked Neville Coleman for his opinion.
If you don't know who he is, I'll give a brief synopsis:

He is the founder and curator of the Australian Marine Photographic Index.
which is the largest scientifically curated visual identification system in the southern hemisphere. Since he started in 1969 he has logged over 100 expeditions around the world, with over 12,000 dives, and he is responsible for discovering more than 400 species new to science.
The catalog covers over 11,000 species! He has done TV programs for National Geographic, spoken at many conferences such as MACNA, published articles in over 150 magazine's including National geographic and Time Life. He has also Authored over 50 books.

So basically.... he knows his stuff, and I'll take his word over a local store owner any day. He said:

"the sea star is a beauty, nothing like I have ever seen in the INDO-PACIFIC and I have most of the shallow water (to 40 metres ) species photographed.It is not in Rowe's INDO-PACIFIC (black and white listings book, certainly not figured anyway)
Unfortunately that's the best I can do as my literature on other areas is limited. Best Wishes Neville "

As he focuses on Indo-Pacific both with his work and literature he had no record of this starfish (because it's a Caribbean species).

Like I mentioned before this star most likely was on a tranship order from a wholesaler. Most areas without a direct flight to Indonesia, Hong Kong, Singapore,etc get their fish through transhippers, or wholesalers. Wholesalers consolidate shipments from around the world and provide the greatest selection to stores. You can get Purple tangs, Royal Grammas, and Flame Angels on the same order.

Anyways, I enjoyed this debate, and who says no one posts anymore?! Who would have thought Emily's simple picture of a starfish would get 45 replies and 500 views and counting!!!
For the record, I am now 100% confident that this is: Echinaster (Othilia) echinophorus
from the Caribbean

[Van down by the river]

I do have to say you've totally stumped me with the "smiling face star", it may be new to science or a Calgarian anomaly :exclaim:

Maybe it's a mutation from the water out there?
I guess it's a mystery that may never be solved........

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Buccaneer]

I do have to say you've totally stumped me with the "smiling face star", it may be new to science or a Calgarian anomaly :exclaim:

Maybe it's a mutation from the water out there?
I guess it's a mystery that may never be solved........

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Could not be the water as she uses RO/DI :rofl:

Cheers

[Delphinus]

Thanks for doing the homework, Van. I had serached every online resource I could find listing Indo species and really came up empty, so it's good to know that my lack of findings wasn't because I was overlooking something but rather that it was because there was nothing to find! :smile:

Anyways, nice to have that little mystery solved.

[Van down by the river]

I try online first but I find most sites only have general info. Besides I enjoy the detective work.

[EmilyB]

:cool: I'll take six when you find them... :mrgreen: