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View Full Version : Livestock Budget Increase Poll (Contest Members Only)


JDigital
10-27-2008, 02:44 AM
Gonna open a poll to see if you guys would like an increase in the LIVESTOCK budget. Seems like a few would like an increase, and I know a few people joined the contest because they liked the idea of the low budget, so, I'm putting it to a vote.

This additional (amount to be determined) will be for Livestock ONLY.

Voting is for Contest Members Only.


1. No. Leave the budget as is.
2. $50 Increase
3. $100 Increase
4. $150 Increase.

Poll closes Oct 31, 2008.

AndyL
10-27-2008, 02:49 AM
I'm going to vote yes, I think we've all notice most of the livestock prices have spiked dramatically in the past month alone (due to cdn$ weakness).

michika
10-27-2008, 03:15 AM
Should I be voting?

rocketlily
10-27-2008, 03:19 AM
Would the contest then be open to people who like the new budget but originaly did not join because of the old limit? Would those not in favor of of a budget change (if it was to be voted in) be allowed to leave the contest due to the change in rules, with a refund of entry dues?

I really have to think about this, as I am sure some people, including myself, sat down and thought about the original budget and what they could achieve before signing up for the competition. If I had thought in the beginning that I couldn't do a tank for $300, I would not have entered.

I would have thought that those who alloted a major portion of their budget for equipment would have realized that it left very little for livestock. Changing the rules seems to me to be rewarded people for bad budgeting.

Quote: "I've done the best I can to alter this contest for fit into our forum here on Canreef, but the fact is that not everyone will be happy with the contest rules as they've been established. If you don't think that you can participate under the established guidelines, then your time and $$ is probably best spent on a tank that you truly will enjoy and keep in the long run."

If this change in budget happens, when will the next change be voted on and when do we stop the changes?

sphelps
10-27-2008, 03:21 AM
Should I be voting?

If you're participating then for sure, otherwise I guess not.

I figure the more budget the better, you don't need to spend a lot to have a nice tank and you don't have to use the full budget but it's better to have too much than too little.

sphelps
10-27-2008, 03:33 AM
If this change in budget happens, when will the next change be voted on and when do we stop the changes?

Rules change, this is true for every part of life. This is a good idea but never done before therefore I think everyone is learning as we go. I think increasing the budget will prevent people from cheating and producing fake receipts, plus it will produce a better variety of livestock and a little more freedom in the competition. If you budgeted for $300 nothing has changed, you don't have to use the full budget.


I've done the best I can to alter this contest for fit into our forum here on Canreef, but the fact is that not everyone will be happy with the contest rules as they've been established. If you don't think that you can participate under the established guidelines, then your time and $$ is probably best spent on a tank that you truly will enjoy and keep in the long run.
Not sure if this quote helps or hurts your argument.

Ryan_Lap
10-27-2008, 03:38 AM
Spend the money or dont. If the budget is indeed raised to $450......o well I guess thats just more options on filling the tank with coral or whatever else you need. Even with the budget possibly going up I may not spend it all as other may not aswell, but its always nice to have a bit of a cushion.

Chaloupa
10-27-2008, 03:38 AM
I'm kinda with Rocketlilly...if my budget had been bigger I might have gone for a MH on my tank...but couldn't with the budget so bought a brand new fixture that I might not have otherwise bought. I thought the challenge was to have a budgeted amt. and work with that...yep, it will be tough....but doable? Absolutely! Could I work with more money, yes.....do I want to have that and waste the way I've tried to go already....not so sure. I'm gonna be thinkin on it too.

sphelps
10-27-2008, 03:42 AM
I'm kinda with Rocketlilly...if my budget had been bigger I might have gone for a MH on my tank...but couldn't with the budget so bought a brand new fixture that I might not have otherwise bought. I thought the challenge was to have a budgeted amt. and work with that...yep, it will be tough....but doable? Absolutely! Could I work with more money, yes.....do I want to have that and waste the way I've tried to go already....not so sure. I'm gonna be thinkin on it too.

We're all in the same boat, I may have done things different to but having the extra money for livestock still works to your advantage.

Der_Iron_Chef
10-27-2008, 04:13 AM
I voted for $100 more, but I'm fine with any decision.

JDigital
10-27-2008, 04:26 AM
Should I be voting?

Nope.

Would the contest then be open to people who like the new budget but originaly did not join because of the old limit? Would those not in favor of of a budget change (if it was to be voted in) be allowed to leave the contest due to the change in rules, with a refund of entry dues?

I really have to think about this, as I am sure some people, including myself, sat down and thought about the original budget and what they could achieve before signing up for the competition. If I had thought in the beginning that I couldn't do a tank for $300, I would not have entered.

I would have thought that those who alloted a major portion of their budget for equipment would have realized that it left very little for livestock. Changing the rules seems to me to be rewarded people for bad budgeting.

Quote: "I've done the best I can to alter this contest for fit into our forum here on Canreef, but the fact is that not everyone will be happy with the contest rules as they've been established. If you don't think that you can participate under the established guidelines, then your time and $$ is probably best spent on a tank that you truly will enjoy and keep in the long run."

If this change in budget happens, when will the next change be voted on and when do we stop the changes?

This is the one and only change I am putting up for vote. Like I said in my original post, some people think its a good idea, and I know others entered the contest based on the original budget.

If members are going to drop out of the contest because of this change, then I will shut this poll down, and we'll stay where we are at. There also won't be any changes made to others entering the contest. It was a headache to keep track of everyones payments the first time, I'm not doing it again. :lol:

This increase is only for Livestock. It's not meant for extra equipment and such.

I'm kinda with Rocketlilly...if my budget had been bigger I might have gone for a MH on my tank...but couldn't with the budget so bought a brand new fixture that I might not have otherwise bought. I thought the challenge was to have a budgeted amt. and work with that...yep, it will be tough....but doable? Absolutely! Could I work with more money, yes.....do I want to have that and waste the way I've tried to go already....not so sure. I'm gonna be thinkin on it too.

Again, This increase is for Livestock Only. It shouldn't affect how we have built our tanks up to this point.

Der_Iron_Chef
10-27-2008, 04:33 AM
Again, This increase is for Livestock Only. It shouldn't affect how we have built our tanks up to this point.

Just playing devil's advocate here (and because I understand Chaloupa's point), but the original budget didn't differentiate between money spent on hardware and money spent on livestock, did it? It only stated that you had $300. So if I chose to spend $200 on a light, I'd have $100 left for fish & corals....but if someone else spent $50 on a light, they'd have $250 left. Correct? So how do you say it's only for livestock when the $300 wasn't initially divided into hardware/livestock, and so on?

rocketlily
10-27-2008, 04:34 AM
Quote "Again, This increase is for Livestock Only. It shouldn't affect how we have built our tanks up to this point."

So if we went with expensive equipment to start, we now would have extra to spend on stock, but if we went thrifty on our equipement to start to allow ourselves with extra funds for livestock and our tank is now full, we cannot upgrade or add better equipment?

sphelps
10-27-2008, 04:52 AM
This latest point is mostly my fault I made the suggestion originally for the extra money to be for livestock only. However that's basically impossible since only one budget exists and it includes both equipment and livestock. So unless JDigital has something else in mind the only way to do this increase would be to increase the one and only budget which is for both equipment and livestock, but the idea was to allow for more livestock not equipment.

I also agree that if people really feel that strongly about the initial budget that they'll quit the contest we should forget about the increase. Honestly the idea was to benefit all equally and although I might argue with you all to the death if in the end you still feel no increase should take place then I guess the only fair result will be to keep things as originally decided. But remember despite some of the previous arguments this is for fun and try and think of the other people in the contest rather than just yourselves.

Chaloupa
10-27-2008, 04:56 AM
and how to do you make it so that it's only spent on livestock..others have yet to get their water flowing.....how can you be sure that it was spent on livestock and not equipment...I say if the budget is to be increased....it is just increased...not "livestock" only...I don't think that will work out very well....in the beginning we were just given x amount of dollars...make it work or don't compete....not this much to equip this much to livestock and then upping our livestock budget.

Chaloupa
10-27-2008, 04:59 AM
But remember despite some of the previous arguments this is for fun and try and think of the other people in the contest rather than just yourselves.

I don't think anyone here can be blamed for thinking only of themselves. I think we're all thinking of the fairness and the original context/guidelines of the rules.

JDigital
10-27-2008, 04:59 AM
Quote "Again, This increase is for Livestock Only. It shouldn't affect how we have built our tanks up to this point."

So if we went with expensive equipment to start, we now would have extra to spend on stock, but if we went thrifty on our equipement to start to allow ourselves with extra funds for livestock and our tank is now full, we cannot upgrade or add better equipment?

Yes, you do have a VERY valid point, and to be honest I never really thought about that. I was thinking the extra livestock would benefit all.

Ryan_Lap
10-27-2008, 05:06 AM
Maybe everyone should just vote. When the closing date comes then we do whatever the majority wants?

Sounds simple enough to me.

Chaloupa
10-27-2008, 06:02 AM
Sounds good to me Ryan.

Chaloupa
10-27-2008, 08:41 AM
I voted......ah well, at least with that extra $100.00 if it happens....it could be fun....but I might try to stay close to the original...just to see if I can!:biggrin:

Ryan_Lap
10-27-2008, 08:43 AM
5 more votes I believe :mrgreen:

JDigital
10-27-2008, 09:33 AM
5 more votes I believe :mrgreen:

6... Chowder and Tom R's votes don't count.. lol We got 12 people.

Ryan_Lap
10-27-2008, 01:47 PM
6... Chowder and Tom R's votes don't count.. lol We got 12 people.


Just noticed that. My bad

AndyL
10-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Course, now it appears people are getting greedy... adding 50% of initial budget - thats ridiculous.

It's one thing to adjust for inflation, it's another thing to add 50% to the budget mid stream. To me it would seem that adding 20% would be fair/equitable, just increasing for the sake of those who can't stick within the budget; that doesn't work.

rocketlily
10-27-2008, 03:21 PM
I know some of you won't agree with me on this, but since this is a Canreef contest, it would be interesting to hear some feedback from Canreef members who will ultimately be the judges in this contest.

sphelps
10-27-2008, 03:36 PM
Anyone can post there opinions, the "contenders only" was referring to pole so it doesn't get too cluttered. So Canreef members post opinions but please don't vote.

However don't over think this, only two people have voted to keep the budget as is and as far as I know those two people aren't in the contest. So far everyone has voted for some kind of increase.

christyf5
10-27-2008, 04:18 PM
Heh, I've been watching this with interest. As a non-contest member, I just wanted to say that I was really interested to see what people could do with a 5 or 10 gallon tank and $300. IMO anyone can do anything with scads of money, only the creative can, well, "get creative" with a small amount.

Just my two cents.

Carry on :razz:

Oh and I edited the poll to reflect only contest members :biggrin:

sphelps
10-27-2008, 04:43 PM
Well the way I see it the challenge is relating more to what can be done with a stock 10 gallon tank the budget just keeps everyone on the same playing field. I understand the interest in seeing what can be done with $300 but to be honest as it stands the set pricing isn't even close to being accurate anyway. For example $20 for large LPS or 15" SPS, that's not even close. Plus livestock prices vary so much and some get better deals than others. With my tank I haven't spend a dime on livestock but I'm still counting so called "fair market value" which again to be perfectly honest isn't even close. I figure we might as well let contenders have a little more freedom and stock their tanks how they choice, the budget will still exist but at least we'll see a little more variation.

To be honest I think the contest would have been better to just have a budget on equipment and not livestock, maybe next time :biggrin:

rocketlily
10-27-2008, 04:53 PM
I agree on
Quote "For example $20 for large LPS or 15" SPS, that's not even close"

This is why I don't think the large budget increase is necessary.

AndyL
10-27-2008, 05:20 PM
On this I'll choose to disagree; I think the whole system is a better competition, it allows some of us to go higher tech and make it up on the livestock or go cheap on the hardware and spend it all on livestock.

However, I don't think we should be talking 100$+ increases. I'm adjusting my budget on livestock due to increased costs in the past month on livestock; most of the LFS/LPS stock prices have risen in the 20-25% range. As this has happened between planning & contest start, I'd say we should allow for that. 50$ on the 5.5's and 60$ on the 10's to compensate for inflation sounds reasonable to me, to be hitting 100-150$ that's nuts...

sphelps
10-27-2008, 05:29 PM
On this I'll choose to disagree; I think the whole system is a better competition, it allows some of us to go higher tech and make it up on the livestock or go cheap on the hardware and spend it all on livestock.

However, I don't think we should be talking 100$+ increases. I'm adjusting my budget on livestock due to increased costs in the past month on livestock; most of the LFS/LPS stock prices have risen in the 20-25% range. As this has happened between planning & contest start, I'd say we should allow for that. 50$ on the 5.5's and 60$ on the 10's to compensate for inflation sounds reasonable to me, to be hitting 100-150$ that's nuts...
Well so far you're the only one who thinks $50 is good, most are saying at least $100 so I don't think it would be fair to go against the majority, if more agree with you then fine but if not you don't have to spend the full extra $100 you can just spend the extra $50.

Also another note, at the end of the contest we can all post our total $ spent. The voters will decide what they prefer.

rocketlily
10-27-2008, 05:32 PM
so I don't think it would be fair to go against the majority

Wow, you just forced me to vote.

JDigital
10-27-2008, 06:36 PM
Heh, I've been watching this with interest. As a non-contest member, I just wanted to say that I was really interested to see what people could do with a 5 or 10 gallon tank and $300. IMO anyone can do anything with scads of money, only the creative can, well, "get creative" with a small amount.

Just my two cents.

Carry on :razz:

Oh and I edited the poll to reflect only contest members :biggrin:

Input much appreciated, and Thanks for the edit! :biggrin:


Like posted earlier, we've (sphelps and I) have already had one big argument take some of the fun out of this contest, if this increase is going to make all of us start arguing, or make contenders want to drop out entirely, we might as well scrap the idea all together.

This poll hasn't exactly received the warmest welcome from everyone. :confused:

sphelps
10-27-2008, 06:53 PM
Input much appreciated, and Thanks for the edit! :biggrin:


Like posted earlier, we've (sphelps and I) have already had one big argument take some of the fun out of this contest, if this increase is going to make all of us start arguing, or make contenders want to drop out entirely, we might as well scrap the idea all together.

This poll hasn't exactly received the warmest welcome from everyone. :confused:

Well this is a discussion so let's not get too hasty. So far no one want to keep the budget the same, so...

JDigital
10-27-2008, 06:57 PM
So far no one want to keep the budget the same, so...

Except the people who will be voting at the end. haha :lol:

rocketlily
10-27-2008, 07:00 PM
Except the people who will be voting at the end. haha :lol:

If the budget is changed, will the people at the end think the contest is a big joke and not vote? Will it hurt the integretity of the contest?

sphelps
10-27-2008, 07:00 PM
Except the people who will be voting at the end. haha :lol:

yeap that's why I said "so far" :lol:

sphelps
10-27-2008, 07:01 PM
If the budget is changed, will the people at the end think the contest is a big joke and not vote? Will it hurt the integretity of the contest?

I don't really see how that's possible, besides no one will even remember this.

Chaloupa
10-27-2008, 07:07 PM
Even if the budget goes up....we can still strive to stick to the initial budget and be proud that we did. No one has to spend the extra money. After thinking about it overnight....I wish I had voted for $50.00 if anything...yeah getting towards the end I might wish for the $150.00 to compete against some of the tanks as they stand now :biggrin:...they're some amazing ideas when we have to get creative. That's a good amount of cash when dealing with a small tank......and it doesn't take us very far away from the initial budget. HOWEVER, the tanks can be done and done well with the first amount we were given..just check out some of the other build offs on different sites...it's a challenge, and that's the idea. It's easy if you have a large budget to make anything gorgeous...but when you're limited you spend wisely and have to plan

christyf5
10-27-2008, 07:08 PM
I don't really see how that's possible, besides no one will even remember this.


Oh I think some will :wink:

rocketlily
10-27-2008, 07:13 PM
The reason I voted for the $50 increase is that I feel it brings us close to the $300 US budget used on the Nano-Reef contest.

JDigital
10-27-2008, 07:15 PM
yeah getting towards the end I might wish for the $150.00

Tell me about it, I would be able to get the fish I WANTED with that extra cash.. lol

Chaloupa
10-27-2008, 07:19 PM
tell me about it, i would be able to get the fish i wanted with that extra cash.. Lol

oh yah!

sphelps
10-27-2008, 07:20 PM
Tell me about it, I would be able to get the fish I WANTED with that extra cash.. lol

Yeah buddy I'm really curious how you're going to stick with the Hawaiian theme. That region has specific coral and fish not found anywhere else plus you can't export coral from Hawaii so I guess fish only? :mrgreen:

JDigital
10-27-2008, 07:23 PM
Yeah buddy I'm really curious how you're going to stick with the Hawaiian theme. That region has specific coral and fish not found anywhere else plus you can't export coral from Hawaii so I guess fish only? :mrgreen:

From what I am been reading Zoas are abundant in hawaii... I can attempt to replicate.. :smilecol:

Chaloupa
10-27-2008, 07:32 PM
Oh I think some will :wink:

I couldn't agree more. Our threads are busy....our controversial conversations even more so!

Der_Iron_Chef
10-27-2008, 07:35 PM
From what I am been reading Zoas are abundant in hawaii... I can attempt to replicate.. :smilecol:

In keeping with your theme, I thought maybe you could make this your central piece:

http://xd0.xanga.com/e8ac85ea47333217742246/b170474618.jpg

Marlin65
10-27-2008, 07:46 PM
I think that if some of you spend $300 and some spent $450 my vote will take that into account for sure.:wink:
Contest was started at $300 so my 2 cents is to keep it at that now.
Next time around it can be made at a different cost.
The whole idea was to budget and by adding cash that defeats that purpose.
Also looks like you are all split on how much to add as your votes are all pretty even.
Looking forward to seeing the end results regardless on what you all decide to do.:biggrin:

ElGuappo
10-29-2008, 06:49 PM
Just noticed this thread. must have been started while i was away. i would be in for a small increase, however if this were to happen i feel we would need atlead 65% of enrooled reefers to agree.

michika
10-29-2008, 10:43 PM
Thanks Drew! I always wanted to taste what a latte was like through my nose! :D

JDigital
10-29-2008, 10:44 PM
In keeping with your theme, I thought maybe you could make this your central piece:

http://xd0.xanga.com/e8ac85ea47333217742246/b170474618.jpg

:lol: .. I'd rather not.. LOL

superduperwesman
10-30-2008, 12:03 AM
I'm glad I waited until the next contest to participate :)

sphelps
10-30-2008, 02:33 AM
I'm glad I waited until the next contest to participate :)
What if there is no next contest? Unless you're going to run it :mrgreen:

Marlin65
10-30-2008, 03:22 AM
What if there is no next contest? Unless you're going to run it :mrgreen:

I will help timing was wrong for me as well.:biggrin:

superduperwesman
10-30-2008, 05:52 AM
What if there is no next contest? Unless you're going to run it :mrgreen:

K deal. I'll run the next contest. Minimum 1200 Gallon,,, $150 budget:lol:

JDigital
10-30-2008, 08:05 PM
K deal. I'll run the next contest. Minimum 1200 Gallon,,, $150 budget:lol:

lmao!

sphelps
10-30-2008, 09:03 PM
So are we going with a $100 increase? Seems everyone is in favor of an increase and I'm sure most would be happy with the $100.

JDigital
10-30-2008, 11:40 PM
So are we going with a $100 increase? Seems everyone is in favor of an increase and I'm sure most would be happy with the $100.

Poll closes tomorrow.. and with a few people who haven't voted yet, I'll have to wait till its closed.

superduperwesman
10-31-2008, 12:08 AM
I'm just happy to be in the contest :D... but I'll vote anyway

ElGuappo
10-31-2008, 01:34 AM
K deal. I'll run the next contest. Minimum 1200 Gallon,,, $150 budget:lol:

This is display volume only right????:mrgreen:

Marlin65
10-31-2008, 04:45 AM
This is display volume only right????:mrgreen:
Yes and the tank is free including any scraps you have laying around.:wink::lol:

StirCrazy
10-31-2008, 05:01 AM
Ok, just to put my opinion in as some one who would probably have entered this if I would have knowen about it sooner.

an increase in live stock budgit is not a good idea, the final judging from what I understand is going to be by canreef members based on a paicture of the tank. sooooo someone who started under the premis of the old budgit and is pretty much done as they went high tech will be able to buy a small frag or two. but some one who is just starting (like me if I decide to get in on it) could skimp on the equipment and high tech stuf and lay everything down on live stock. the end result would be a tank that looks amazing.

One of the things that got me reading this and following it for the last couple days was I was very interested to see exactly what people would come up with for 300.00

rules for entering were already set and in all fairness once some one has joined under the declaired rules then they can't be changed, or it makes a joke out of the whole contest.

that would be like paying 100.00 for a ticket to win the dream house then two weeks after you buy your ticket they add a rule saying only people over 65 can win.

Steve

superduperwesman
10-31-2008, 05:40 AM
Ok, just to put my opinion in as some one who would probably have entered this if I would have known about it sooner.

You still can

an increase in live stock budget is not a good idea, the final judging from what I understand is going to be by canreef members based on a picture of the tank. sooooo someone who started under the premise of the old budgit and is pretty much done as they went high tech will be able to buy a small frag or two. but some one who is just starting (like me if I decide to get in on it) could skimp on the equipment and high tech stuf and lay everything down on live stock. the end result would be a tank that looks amazing.

Someone who started under the old budget and went high tech on the equipment will now be able to have more live stock... someone who wanted to focus more on livestock can now focus even more on it... which I'm sure they we'll love either by increasing quantity or color and quality

At the end of the day the only people who can legitimately be disappointed are the ones who only wanted/budgeted to spend $300 and now feel that others will be at an advantage because they're now spending more... but I'm sure the voters will take into consideration... especially seeing the money spent must be posted.

Plus at the end of the day... "amazing" is a relative term... I'm sure some people in the DIY section would rather see a 10 gallon with some innovative design and 2 frags then a stock AGA stocked right full :D

rules for entering were already set and in all fairness once some one has joined under the declared rules then they can't be changed, or it makes a joke out of the whole contest.

Rule # 3b: the rules can change ahah
^ and that's the exception that proves the rule

It's not a joke it just takes time to get everything ironed out nicely.. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was this contest.. but so far I think it's starting out on a pretty good foundation for the first go round


that would be like paying 100.00 for a ticket to win the dream house then two weeks after you buy your ticket they add a rule saying only people over 65 can win.

Not the perfect parallel... increasing the budget will not omit anyone from the contest

Marlin65
10-31-2008, 05:52 AM
It does not matter to me one way or the other but I am with stirCrazy on this one. To change the rules half way though is not ethical.

superduperwesman
10-31-2008, 06:18 AM
It does not matter to me one way or the other but I am with stirCrazy on this one. To change the rules half way though is not ethical.

Yeah if everybody broke the rules all the time things would be a mess... but you can't claim that any rule change is always unethical?? If so I think my buddy Josh would be a little upset that he has to ride at the back of the bus. If the foundation of something is less than ideal from the start then a change is required and that shouldn't really be a problem as long as it follows the correct "Management of Change Process."

And in this case it is apparent that a majority of the contestants would agree that a change is required... I guess if we wanted to be more fair we could add up all of the 0's, 50's, 100's, 150's and divide the total by the number of contestants so that everyone's vote influences the actual number increase, so even though a contestant may lose to the majority they can still bring the average down oppose to being a losing majority with no actual influence on the outcome.

If we do it like that it'll kinda be like government elections... you lost on the whole but hey you still get a few seats in parliament ahah

Might be a little more representative of the true situation?

Which would mean a $95 increase given the current votes at the time of this post if my calculations are correct.

StirCrazy
10-31-2008, 02:44 PM
superduperwesman, you seem to be the only one arguing this, is it you that wants the budgit increased as you don't feel you can do it for under 300?

anyways, guess I forgot.. rules we ment to be broken :rolleyes:

guess that means we can start posting cars and table saws in the buy and sell section on the board as no one will mind if we change the rules.

Steve

superduperwesman
10-31-2008, 04:06 PM
superduperwesman, you seem to be the only one arguing this, is it you that wants the budgit increased as you don't feel you can do it for under 300?

Ahaha...... ahahah Seriously??? Says the guy who post an argument ahahah I mean it's no fun when you do my job for me. What's the point in trying when you just disprove yourself?? Better luck next time.

I just joined the contest yesterday so I just thought I'd get in my opinion before the closing date.

But yeah I guess I'm the ONLY one arguing.... oh right... and YOU blahahh. Oooh thats right it takes two to argue?? And I guess everyone on the other 5 pages don't matter either??

I've made tanks for less :D I could do it again... but it's to early to tell what I want to do so I figured add cushion and if I come in below... good. And at the end of the day everyone not in the contest seems to want the budget to remain unchanged... and then they'll probably complain about how pitiful the tanks they'll be voting on are.


anyways, guess I forgot.. rules we ment to be broken :rolleyes:

guess that means we can start posting cars and table saws in the buy and sell section on the board as no one will mind if we change the rules.

If you recall:

Yeah if everybody broke the rules all the time things would be a mess... If the foundation of something is less than ideal from the start then a change is required and that shouldn't really be a problem as long as it follows the correct "Management of Change Process."

I don't recall saying rules were meant to be broken? More like at times they need to be. I guarantee if you take the argument "rules should never be broken" over "sometimes rules need to change" (which is what you seem to be alluding too with your sarcastic eye roll) you will lose every time because arguments brake down in absolutes and because you can't judge something by it's abuse. You CAN NOT RATIONALLY DENY that rules sometimes need to be changed... and I think I've already proven that with my buddy Josh.

I think not posting your table saw on a fish forum is founded on something a little more solid than an obscure number selection.

But feel free to... not argue some more?? :D

sphelps
10-31-2008, 04:07 PM
superduperwesman, you seem to be the only one arguing this, is it you that wants the budgit increased as you don't feel you can do it for under 300?

anyways, guess I forgot.. rules we ment to be broken :rolleyes:

guess that means we can start posting cars and table saws in the buy and sell section on the board as no one will mind if we change the rules.

Steve
What's with all this rule talk? The rule would be "stay within budget", increasing the budget doesn't change the rule, it still applies.
Plus you can't say wesman is the only one, not one person in the contest voted to keep the budget the same, to me that says something.
Sorry to say but I really don't think anyone in the contest is doing all this to impress everyone on Canreef. We're doing it for the fun of it and I personally still want a nice tank to look at the end of the day and feel a budget increase will help that.
You're entitled to opinions but I don't see how ethics has anything to do with this and if we're going to use parallels and examples lets use ones that actually make sense, after all sometimes you have to flush twice, and that doesn't mean the world is going to end.

Der_Iron_Chef
10-31-2008, 05:21 PM
I'm just wondering when this contest is going to be fun? All this arguing, coupled with smiley emoticons and passive-aggressive crap is ruining my impression of this whole @^@#$ thing. Who wants my $20 entry fee? I'm about to step out.

rocketlily
10-31-2008, 05:23 PM
I'm just wondering when this contest is going to be fun? All this arguing, coupled with smiley emoticons and passive-aggressive crap is ruining my impression of this whole @^@#$ thing.

I agree. Please don't step out. We need some sanity in this contest.

Chaloupa
10-31-2008, 05:26 PM
I'm having fun...and in the end you have the tank, you decide what you do and you enjoy it...I like my little tank and am going to have fun making it look great and stay healthy...that's the main idea. So have fun with it!

sphelps
10-31-2008, 06:01 PM
I'm just wondering when this contest is going to be fun? All this arguing, coupled with smiley emoticons and passive-aggressive crap is ruining my impression of this whole @^@#$ thing. Who wants my $20 entry fee? I'm about to step out.

Well I'm having fun and I think Wes joined because he saw he was missing out on all this entertainment. A little debate is good for everyone and judging by the views we get on some of these threads others are definitely enjoying all this as well. You can't seriously be that sheltered were a little debate and a few smiley's make you run home to mommy :lol: This is all fun stuff what would you rather talk about? Rainbows and unicorns?
If you can't tell, I'm just kidding :wink:

Der_Iron_Chef
10-31-2008, 06:09 PM
I work with teenage prostitutes and drug addicts, and the last thing I need on Canreef is more bickering. And the smilies don't hide the antagonism and aggravation behind much of the "debate"...so no, it's not enjoyable for me. Sorry.

ElGuappo
10-31-2008, 06:11 PM
agreed i was in the dark when i got back from vegas . i had no interest in reading updated threads due to all the BS that has started.

rocketlily
10-31-2008, 06:29 PM
.Rainbows and unicorns?

That would be different.

superduperwesman
10-31-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm just wondering when this contest is going to be fun? All this arguing, coupled with smiley emoticons and passive-aggressive crap is ruining my impression of this whole @^@#$ thing. Who wants my $20 entry fee? I'm about to step out.

I'm having fun :)

Every debate/discussion is beneficial and builds you either by reinforcing what you already know or making you realize that you might need to rethink something... in either case you're better off. People learn by discussion which includes debate which is PART of the reason these forums like this exist, so we all can learn. So far I've learned about more than just fish :) And generally when people always agree nothing changes... and then things would never improve... we've got so much important stuff ironed out so that in the future there will slowly be less and less problem sources.

If you don't like the debate/discussion you don't have to participate... just build your tank... but I don't really understand how you have problems with discussions like this and then you contribute something completely unproductive like the above statement^.

sphelps
10-31-2008, 06:36 PM
We all make our own beds and do what we do for a reason, some people like helping others but you can't expect special treatment for it. Nobody's forcing anyone to participate in any of these discusions or even read them for that matter. So if you don't enjoy reading something the obvious solution would be to....

The earth revolves around the sun, not individual people and their opinions.

sphelps
10-31-2008, 06:41 PM
+1

Der_Iron_Chef
10-31-2008, 06:51 PM
Ridiculous AND offensive.

superduperwesman
10-31-2008, 07:05 PM
Seriously... I absolutely do NOT want you to drop out.

That being said I don't mind a good discussion or even debate... and to be perfectly honest I think you don't mind one either or you wouldn't be playing the "devils advocate" as often as you do and so clearly state.

So there are a few hiccups and a few rule changes... it's the first go around... lets just weather the storm and I'm sure we'll all have a good time

Der_Iron_Chef
10-31-2008, 07:07 PM
I am sure we will. I think I found my halloween costume: devil's advocate.

OCDP
10-31-2008, 07:52 PM
edited

OCDP
10-31-2008, 07:54 PM
edited

rocketlily
10-31-2008, 08:24 PM
This is getting ridiculus and has absolutely nothing to do with a budget increase poll

superduperwesman
10-31-2008, 08:39 PM
edited

superduperwesman
10-31-2008, 08:40 PM
This is getting ridiculus and has absolutely nothing to do with a budget increase poll

That's the beauty of debate/discussion you learn way more then you ever set out to

JDigital
10-31-2008, 09:36 PM
That's enough!

I go out for the night and check in mid afternoon, and I got 3 pages of useless banter about nothing pertaining to the increase other than ONE post by wesman that I think is a good idea, and that's the average increase based on votes per the poll. Which I am going to use.

StirCrazy
10-31-2008, 10:28 PM
That's enough!

I go out for the night and check in mid afternoon, and I got 3 pages of useless banter about nothing pertaining to the increase other than ONE post by wesman that I think is a good idea, and that's the average increase based on votes per the poll. Which I am going to use.

bah, your no fun, well thats enough controversy for this contest.. if was fun while it lasted.. :mrgreen:

whens the next contest? :lol:

Steve

Doug
10-31-2008, 10:49 PM
That's enough!

I go out for the night and check in mid afternoon, and I got 3 pages of useless banter about nothing pertaining to the increase other than ONE post by wesman that I think is a good idea, and that's the average increase based on votes per the poll. Which I am going to use.

Agreed. I edited the banter for you. It would be nice if it stayed on topic.

Thanks

sphelps
10-31-2008, 11:12 PM
bah, your no fun, well thats enough controversy for this contest.. it was fun while it lasted.. :mrgreen:

I'm pretty sure we're all just getting warmed up

JDigital
11-01-2008, 09:14 PM
Now that the poll is closed. All contestant votes have been taken accounted for so everyones votes means something.

Average turned out to be:

$95.45

Spend wisely. :mrgreen:

ElGuappo
11-01-2008, 09:39 PM
Now that the poll is closed. All contestant votes have been taken accounted for so everyones votes means something.

Average turned out to be:

$95.45

Spend wisely. :mrgreen:

So to clarify we have an additional $95.45 bringing the total budget up to $395.48?

JDigital
11-01-2008, 09:55 PM
So to clarify we have an additional $95.45 bringing the total budget up to $395.48?

Well original was $300, so the addition of $95.45, would make it $395.45...:wink: