Would this compact auto top off system work well?>

[Oxymoron]

Found a picture of this low tech top off system and was wondering if it would do the trick?
Seems like the physics of it are right...
Any opinions would be appreciated.http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wetdryfilter.com/access3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wetdryfilter.com/accessories%2520%26%2520clearance.htm&h=253&w=194&sz=5&hl=en&start=36&usg=__XqUBNtcL2C-En2nwTLL5TdNitIU=&tbnid=ymAB3h0jA3nU5M:&tbnh=111&tbnw=85&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dauto%2Btop%2Boff%26start%3D20%26gbv%3 D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

[sphelps]

Yeap it'll work but you can make something similar for less than $20, and that one looks pretty cheap. If that top hose were to come loose all the water will drain out.

[X-Treme]

You can build your own for WAY less than 60 bucks.

[Oxymoron]

Would anyone happen to have any pictures of a home made auto top off system that they have made?

[Carmen]

tagging along as I would love to see some DIY ATO systems too!

[JDigital]

tagging along as i would love to see some diy ato systems too!

+1

[mark]

furnance humidifier float valve connected to my ro/di unit. Could be just as easily hooked up to a old salt pail holding fresh water placed above the sump.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/das75/float.jpg

[X-Treme]

I don't have a picture, but I'll explain it. I use a glass wine carboy with the rubber stopper. Drill 2 holes in the stopper and get some thin rigid plastic tubing (the size that you can push airline tubing onto it. don't remember the size). Insert 1 peice of the tubing through one of the drilled holes (make sure the tube is a snug fit in the hole. ie. drill the hole 1 or 2 drill bit sizes too small) and push this peice of tubing all the way to the bottom of the carboy leaving about 2 inches sticking out the top. Insert another peice of tubing in the other hole so it is only though about 1 inch. Insert stopper into carboy VERY snugly. Run airline tubing from the tube that goes to the bottom of the carboy to your tank or sump. Run airline tubing from the other tube to an air pump. Hook the air pump to a float switch or (in my case) a timer. As the pump pumps air into the carboy and pressurizes it, it pushes water out from the bottom. I figured out how much evap I have in a day and figured out how much the pump will pump out in 1 min. Calculate how many minutes you need to run your air pump over the day, and set your timer. My timer runs for 1 minute 4 times a day. 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, and 12am. (not overnight because much less evap with no MH lighting on).

If this was too much or you REALLY don't understand, I can take some pics, but pics won't really explain how it works.

[mike31154]

I don't have a picture, but I'll explain it. I use a glass wine carboy with the rubber stopper. Drill 2 holes in the stopper and get some thin rigid plastic tubing (the size that you can push airline tubing onto it. don't remember the size). Insert 1 peice of the tubing through one of the drilled holes (make sure the tube is a snug fit in the hole. ie. drill the hole 1 or 2 drill bit sizes too small) and push this peice of tubing all the way to the bottom of the carboy leaving about 2 inches sticking out the top. Insert another peice of tubing in the other hole so it is only though about 1 inch. Insert stopper into carboy VERY snugly. Run airline tubing from the tube that goes to the bottom of the carboy to your tank or sump. Run airline tubing from the other tube to an air pump. Hook the air pump to a float switch or (in my case) a timer. As the pump pumps air into the carboy and pressurizes it, it pushes water out from the bottom. I figured out how much evap I have in a day and figured out how much the pump will pump out in 1 min. Calculate how many minutes you need to run your air pump over the day, and set your timer. My timer runs for 1 minute 4 times a day. 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, and 12am. (not overnight because much less evap with no MH lighting on).

If this was too much or you REALLY don't understand, I can take some pics, but pics won't really explain how it works.

Neato, please elaborate on where the car boy sits (what level) in relation to your sump or tank, i.e. how much head pressure are we talking here that the air pump can overcome?

[X-Treme]

The carboy sits on the floor right beside my tank and pumps up to the tank (no sump), so from bottom of carboy to top of tank is about 4 feet. NO PROBLEMS whatsoever getting the water to move that far. When I re-fill the carboy, I must remove the top up line from in the tank because of gravity syphon. And when I turn the pump on the water starts to move out of the carboy immediately. When it's empty and I pull the stopper out to refill there is QUITE a pressure build up. The whole setup actually works QUITE well if I do say so myself.

I almost forgot....... YOU MUST PUT A CHECK VALVE IN THE AIR LINE TO THE CARBOY, so that the water doesn't syphon back down the hose from the tank.

[mark]

Found a picture of this low tech top off system and was wondering if it would do the trick?
Seems like the physics of it are right...
Any opinions would be appreciated.http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wetdryfilter.com/access3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wetdryfilter.com/accessories%2520%26%2520clearance.htm&h=253&w=194&sz=5&hl=en&start=36&usg=__XqUBNtcL2C-En2nwTLL5TdNitIU=&tbnid=ymAB3h0jA3nU5M:&tbnh=111&tbnw=85&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dauto%2Btop%2Boff%26start%3D20%26gbv%3 D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

Well spent about 1/2 hour trying to dig up a link but found to be dead. Was aqualan.com and was for their Nurce. Was basically the same as the jug in your link but made from acrylic. The web site had a neat little animation and in principle seen no reason wouldn't work. No pumps, switches etc., just needed to set the bottom of the container at the desired water level of the sump.

Still a fan of my $12.00 HD float valve though.

[Oxymoron]

I found an interesting design here.
I emailed them and am hoping to hear back from them tommorow.

http://www.c-horsesystems.com/clevel.htm

[Rippin]

I just use a small water pump or peristaltic pump in a pail of fresh water hooked up to a digital timer that can turn on/off in 1 minute increments. Once you've determined the amount of evaporation, you can set how much and how frequently the pump turns on. This assumes that the amount of evaporation is constant throughout the year. Also, if there is a power outage, the digital timers have a back-up battery, so it won't stop topping up.

[Oxymoron]

I recieved a reply email from
http://www.c-horsesystems.com/clevel.htm
They do ship to Canada and are willing to make me a custom sized system that will fit inside of my cabinet.
I willl be able to provide them with measurements when I return from out of town and hopefully get the process started ASAP.
I will update the thread with pics when it is all said and done.

[X-Treme]

Still think that's WAY expensive for an ATO system. I built mine for about 60 bucks, and that's only because I didn't have an air pump. would have been 20 without the air pump.

[mike31154]

I've set up the carboy/air pump rig on my system & it works well, although I've found that as the water level goes down in the carboy, the flow is also dropping. Could be because my stopper is not sealing perfectly. I had to use a glue gun to fill the hole in the center of the stopper since I've been unable to get hold of a solid stopper. But I'm inclined to think the main reason is due to the drop in water level in the carboy - more volume of air needs to be pressurized.

This is fine for when I'm at home since I can manually run the air pump longer or put the carboy up a little higher to compensate. Not sure I would trust it for more than 4 to 5 days unattended though. I have a timer set up to pump for 5 minutes 4 times in 24 hrs and that was keeping the DT topped up nicely until the level in the container dropped to half. That's when I upped the timing to 10 minutes on one of the cycles and also put the carboy up on an inverted salt bucket.

I think once I get a sump set up, I'd like to use a similar system but instead of using a timer, I'd be inclined to take things a step further and use a float switch contolling a relay to run the air pump. Nevertheless, I like the the simplicity of the current set up and it sure beats topping up manually with a 1 gallon ice cream bucket.

[X-Treme]

Did you put a check valve in the air feed line? I used a solid stopper and drilled my holes VERY tight, and push the stopper in very tight as well, and have NEVER noticed any flow problems. Same flow full or empty. I think the check valve is the main reason for this (keeps constant pressure in the carboy)

[mike31154]

Yes on the checkvalve. It's between the air pump and the carboy input tube which won't prevent any air leakage at the stopper. Both tubes are very tight in the stopper but as I mentioned earlier, I suspect there's some air escaping around the glue plug in the middle of the stopper. So between cycles I can see the water level in the line to the tank drop but this just means it takes 30 seconds after the air pump starts to repressurize the carboy and get the water back over the hump into the tank. I just noticed that once this started happening, the flow from the tube into the tank was more of a drip than a flow for the 5 minute on cycle. Once I raised the carboy it improved the flow which should make sense since there's less static head to overcome. Once I get a new stopper and refill the carboy, I'll see what happens and post my findings.

Thanks again for the idea. One of the things I like about it is if for some reason the carboy runs dry the air pump will just do what it does, pump air. If you let an ATO with a water pump or power head run dry, you run the risk of burning out the pump, tripping a breaker or even starting a fire from an overheated pump. Still, I'm thinking when I set up my new 90 with a basement sump, I'll go with a mechanical gravity feed with the humidifier float switch to control the flow. Even simpler and uses absolutely no power. Just have to mount the feed container above the sump.

[Okguy]

I have the exact same set up that I've been running for 2 years now. But instead of using carboy I use 5 gallon water jugs. That way I just have to switch the jugs out when they need to be replaced. You have to probably use a little more silicon where the airline goes through the lid. I find I have to re-silicon once every 6-8 months to keep a good seal. I also discovered that the seal will last a bit longer if you scuff the lid with sandpaper prior to adding the silicon. Another thing I do is I keep the water jug below my sump, so that I can purposefully add extra water into the sump. Any excess water will just siphon back into the jug (a way to ensure I'm not underwatering when I'm away).

In my tank a 5 gallon jug will last 7 days in the winter and 5 in the summer. To make it last longer, I will set up 2 jugs on the same air pump using one of these.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/images/airpumps/accessories/gv-plastic2.jpg

When I do this I find I can go away for 10 days with little worries (ok less worries).

HTH