PDA

View Full Version : 'Fringe Benefits'... On hold...


BlueAbyss
10-23-2008, 07:35 AM
I've been putting a lot of thought into my tank build, and in the end I think I've decided to build my own 60 G acrylic tank. That is, after I experiment a bit with something on a smaller scale :biggrin:

So I'm starting up the 20 after all. As it goes (and it will go slow, I have a lot of ideas I want to implement and experiment with) I will document it here, including pics (when there's something to see), and costs involved (including time). Here's where I'm at so far:

I went to Walmart today and bought 2 Aquarium Products 100w heaters, thinking they were a cheap model (not the case, Aquarium Products makes Instant Ocean salt which for being around as long as it has must be a decent product). They were hanging on a rack that said 4.17, and the boxes are not at all flashy or overly interesting looking. After getting them for that price instead of the over 20 bucks that I paid at the till (when I noticed they had been mislabeled), I got them home and did some research and sure enough got an awesome deal on a pair of good quality (hopefully) heaters.

While I was down there I went to Canadian Tire and checked out some prices on PVC and other plumbing stuff. I'll be making a trip to Home Hardware to check stuff out there too, one of these days. I have a feeling I'm going to be doing some... lets say interesting plumbing, so this little foray to the plumbing section helped me get an idea of the cost of what I'm thinking about.

So here's a couple things I want to experiment with:


Surge devices. I have a couple ideas about this and have done some research, so I want to play with this. I'm thinking of a super low velocity, high flow system...
LED lighting. I eventually want to build my own fixture...
Building my own downdraft skimmer (more on this later). I decided that I would build my own, related to the build of my sump / algae filter (I say algae filter since most of those little critters that live in refugiums apparently don't survive the trip through the impeller in the pump)

That's where I'm at. Like I said earlier, this will be a slow build as both time and money (mostly money ;) and my lack of experience are factors here. There will be pics when there is something to show everyone!

michika
10-23-2008, 01:45 PM
I hope your going to be taking photos, because this sounds really cool!

Whatigot
10-23-2008, 01:57 PM
yeah...
this hs tank journal written all over it.

BlueAbyss
10-24-2008, 05:43 AM
After discovering that the floor where I'm choosing to put the tank (and the furniture it's sitting on) isn't level and that I'm going to have to shim before I decide to fill it (which will be in a few months at best), I spent the day thinking deeply and doing more research on surge devices.

EDIT: Having done a bit more research, I've settled on a CSD. I will be building an accessory baffle chamber to remove the bubbles incorporated into the CSDs siphon.

I will be updating this thread later this month with some of my new ideas, to gauge what more experienced people think. My plan has evolved a bit since it's inception, partially because I feel I need a bigger tank to accomplish what I want, and some other reasons... more to come.

BlueAbyss
01-25-2009, 09:20 AM
So here's what I've come to...

20 gallon display, half seagrass planted, half reef.

The seagrass will be Halophila spp. (Oar, Paddle, or Star grass), with some Halodule spp. (Shoal grass) for contrast. These will be planted in a substrate of 'mud' in a container hidden under the sand, making for easy removal (when it comes time to thin the stands and to help contain the mud).

The reef will start off as uncured live rock, probably about 30 lbs worth... I was looking at J&L's website, and would likely go with half Irian Jaya, and half Vanuatu. This may seem like a lot of live rock but this way I can pick and choose which pieces I like best, and also because it's uncured, anything that will live in the conditions that I can provide will survive and multiply. I realize that this is a bad idea in most cases, but since the tank is just starting out I can likely just use this as the tank cycle. I will give it normal light, change water daily, and skim heavily... I'll lay it all out in detail later, in a further post, with a proposed stocking list etc.

The display and sump...
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/TheVastMajority/011.jpg

Detail of chipped sump edge, I water tested it though and it's good... I'll silicone it double just to be safe.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/TheVastMajority/013.jpg

Stripping silicone really sucks. Is it true that acetone will take off the residue left from stripping it with a blade?
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/TheVastMajority/016.jpg

BlueAbyss
01-25-2009, 08:45 PM
Alright, so here's the proposed tank plan, if anyone would like to critique...

20 gallon display, 15 gallon sump.

I was thinking that I'd like to go with a coast-to-coast across the back of the tank because the vast majority of the water flow through this tank will be surged, and I don't think I'm gonna bother with trying to make it all quiet beyond making the siphon for the CSD quieter... Herbie's don't work overly well with surge. There will be a 1" bulkhead returning the water from the tank to the sump, which should be enough to handle the 600 gph I want to run through this tank. But without further ado, lets talk about flow and surge!

I will be running 2 pumps on timers. Pump 1 will run during the day, turning over the tank at a total rate of roughly 600 gph or around 30X. Most of this will run through a tuned surge tank that will drop a volume of about 1.5 liters every 2.5 seconds, the balance will run through the tank directly. Pump 2 will run at night, about 300 gph... 15X turnover. More of this will make it through the tank without being surged, though there will be a smaller surge of 1 liter every 4 or 5 seconds. Both surge and direct flow will be piped into the tank through a plenum system built into the rockwork... likely 4" acrylic tube will be used for this.

I will be running a skimmer (I've been looking at the Tunze 9005 or 9205), at least during the startup phase (first 4 months). I also have a pair of 100W heaters...
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/TheVastMajority/020.jpg
that will reside in the sump with the pumps and skimmer. I may also consider an ATO, though probably not unless the need is shown ie: the fluctuations in the sump are severe enough to warrant it. This tank will be uncovered, so evaporation may become a problem but I'll welcome the extra humidity in the mean time.

As far as lighting goes, I'm currently torn. MH seems like the way to go, but I'll still need T5s to go with it, so I'm not 'light-shocking' the tank when the MHs come on. It may be better to just get T5HO to start off with... any thoughts here would be greatly appreciated. One problem with MHs is I find many to be too blue for my liking, but I still want to be able to get some fluorescence out of my corals and zoos... and I love the shimmer they produce. So what is everyone's experience with lighting? I could really use some insight.

TENTATIVE STOCKING LIST!

Plants:
Halimeda spp., calcareous algae
Chlorodemsis spp. (Maidens Hair algae)
Peyssonnelia spp. (Red Plate algae)
Halophila spp. (Oar, Paddle, or Star grass)
Halodule spp. (Shoal grass)

Sessile Inverts:
Christmas Tree Worm Rock, with Porites spp. coral... I love feather dusters :smile:
Photosynthetic sponges Halichondria or Haliclona spp.
Zoanthids, I'll be running carbon.
Montipora / Acropora spp.
Caulastrea or some other LPS coral that will keeps it's tentacles to itself. Maybe Blastomussa?
Muriceopsis flavida, Purple plume gorgonian, or some other photosynthetic gorgonian.

Benthic Inverts:
Gnathophyllum americanum (Bumblebee Shrimp) - probably a group of 5
Lybia tesselata (Pom Pom Crab) - single. I may decide against this one, I haven't decided yet.
Snails - I haven't decided if I will buy snails for this tank, I'm hoping something comes in on my live rock. If not (or if nothing survives) I'll go with a couple Nerite spp.

Fishes:
Doryrhamphus excisus (Bluestriped Pipefish) - a pair. These will likely be the only fish in the tank.
Discordipinna griessingeri (Flaming Prawn Goby) or Stonogobiops yasha (Yasha Goby) - single if I decide that I need another fish, and the 'pod population can handle it.

Thoughts are appreciated, thanks for reading :biggrin:

BlueAbyss
01-26-2009, 10:50 AM
The section of the reef I am trying to replicate is called the 'fringe', where seagrass beds meet the edge of the reef. Hence the change in name to this thread. A little wierd, I know... but I'm up late reading about aquarium stuff, so I'm probably slightly delerious :lol:

Whatigot
01-27-2009, 09:34 PM
can't wait to see it in action.
sounds like a lot of planning, and that always seems to translate into a very nice tank.

BlueAbyss
01-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Yeah, planning partially because it's my first saltwater tank, partially because I'm sort of going overboard in my plans what with the variety of stuff I plan to keep (and have yet to find a source for seagrasses in Canada), and partially because I'm on a slim budget.

But if things go well I should end up with something I can brag about :twised:

Whatigot
01-27-2009, 09:38 PM
your best bet for seagrass may be from a fellow reefer...
When your at the stage that you need it, try posting in the classifieds for some.
People get all kinds of cool macro hitch hikers and you might get lucky.

BlueAbyss
01-28-2009, 04:46 AM
Yes I'll be doing that, I've figured out that much of what I need will not be available through mail order... photosynthetic gorgonians and sponges, macroalgae, and seagrass mainly, but we'll see. I won't be at the stage where I'm ready to plant the seagrass, which will occupy approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of the tank, until 6 months after I have the tank set up and the rock, sand, and mud in the tank. By then it will likely be winter and I will probably have to wait to find the seagrass from someone who wouldn't mind shipping.

I don't think I'll mind waiting, watching all the things that survive the cycle with the uncured rock grow and take over a predator free tank will be interesting :biggrin:

BlueAbyss
01-28-2009, 10:53 PM
So I was doing some measuring today, and the stand that I had intended on using... well not really a stand, but that's beside the point... isn't going to have enough room to have a very large skimmer at all. I have a total of 16" of height where I want to put my sump, so with the height of the sump (around 13" with the trim on the tank) that leaves me with 3" of headroom, not enough to remove the cup on a skimmer. AND I'll have to pull out the sump to do any maintenance, requiring me to have spaflex shipped to me...

ARGH! :redface: Why didn't I think of this before?

So, now I need to build a stand. This is actually a blessing in disguise though, for a number of reasons.

1. It will cut down on noise, having all the components enclosed in a cabinet.
2. I can hide ALL of the plumbing by drilling a short side of the tank.
3. I can build an overflow into the same short side, saving some space in the tank AND allowing the tank to be viewable from 3 sides.

Hmm this is gonna work out to be cheaper in the long run, because I don't need to buy good looking equipment... nothing will be exposed. I can also use both MH and T5HO, a la retrofit kits. I still need to do some research on reflectors though...

Marlin65
01-28-2009, 11:09 PM
Stripping silicone really sucks. Is it true that acetone will take off the residue left from stripping it with a blade?
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/TheVastMajority/016.jpg
No that won't work probably too late with my response, but they make some silicone remover look for it at home depot.

BlueAbyss
01-29-2009, 06:08 AM
No that won't work probably too late with my response, but they make some silicone remover look for it at home depot.

Nope not too late, I'm drawing on the tank with a whiteboard marker to figure out where the holes are going and what my proposed aquascape will look like... I'll be ordering a couple glass drill bits once I get the stand built. Part of the system will now become a 'fuge, namely part of the surge tank... more on this later as I work out the details.

Thanks for the info, I'll ask at Can Tire or Home Hardware to see what they have.

BlueAbyss
01-29-2009, 08:25 PM
So I spent some time in front of the white board last night, trying to come up with a basic idea of what I want to do with this build now that I need to build a stand... You all will think I'm crazy but here goes...

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/TheVastMajority/002-1.jpg

The plan for the sump has changed already, I've decided to build a passive skimmer... that one I drew on paper and couldn't get a good shot of it, but it's basically a couple of tall tubes of bioballs with ALL of the tanks flow going through them... more on that later.

GreenSpottedPuffer
01-30-2009, 06:08 AM
Looks like you have planned things well. Going to be interesting to see this in action :)

Your white board reminded me that I have been meaning to go get one for the new tank. I want to keep better track of my ZEO and 2 part dosing. I figure I would use a whiteboard this time. I use paper now but they always seem to go missing.

BlueAbyss
01-30-2009, 07:46 AM
Yup, that was the idea behind the whiteboard. Both a place to plan things now and a place to write instructions for dosing and feeding... both for myself and if I go out of town. Probably a good investment for any fish room :lol:

BlueAbyss
02-18-2009, 04:00 AM
I've started a pico build (see my signature) so this build will be sidelined for a while... but I'll soon be receiving a 30 gallon FW system with a few small fish (whatever is left, the tank is terribly neglected). That tank will become this build. The few fish will move into a smaller system built from an ice cream pail :lol:

On that note, and since the tank will be notably larger, I can make a few adjustments to this build :biggrin: First I will probably change my choice of fish... Now the main species in the tank will be a larger species of pipefish... I've read that the Red Banded pipefish has interesting behavior as a pair. My choices for everything will change actually, though I'll still be limited to Halodule and Halophila seagrasses. I may build a 'shallow end' like a tank I read about (I was sort of planning something like this already), which will be lit evenly (T5), and the rest of the tank will be lit with either regular MH or a spotlight system (MH, Xenon, or LED). This depending on how much of the tank will be non-photosynthetic, which is something I've been researching.

Much of the reason for the pico build is experimental. I want to test my surge system on a smaller scale, which will be much cheaper, less work (no custom stand, though a lot more DIY... wait for my LED spotlight build thread) and take up the space I originally wanted the 20 gallon to occupy, before I started getting all geeky and experimental.

So this project is on hold. For now. :wink:

Rbacchiega
02-18-2009, 04:59 AM
....you have very neat writing.


just so you know LOL

BlueAbyss
02-18-2009, 06:39 AM
Lol... I get that a lot, thanks I guess. Do you mean concise, or my style? :mrgreen:

Oh, yeah, way to hijack my thread :lol: :wink:

Rbacchiega
02-18-2009, 06:44 AM
I'm pretty sure I'm the queen of hijacking.... I write in all caps too. I had a handwriting tech (geek, whatever) tell me it's because of my need to feel powerful and in control of everything that surrounds me... whatever.


But back to the original post. I dont' know what I'm more excited to see. The surge tank or this. I havn't seen too many well designed planted reef tanks, so I vote this one.

Get back on it already

BlueAbyss
02-18-2009, 07:02 AM
Well, to be honest, this build (the fringe reef) will also be a surged build. I just need to test my theories (and calculations... I suck at math) on a smaller (cheaper :wink:) scale. Though I suppose there will be notable differences... the pico will not have seagrass, or a skimmer (at least in the beginning). Or a second display tank :wink: This build won't have LED lighting as the main source of PAR either.

And this will give me an introduction to SW. I just don't want to spend a huge amount of money to have my idea fail on a large scale. And (this one is the big one) I've yet to see seagrasses available anywhere, but then I don't live in the city.

EDIT Just to be clear, the pico will still count as a planted tank, I still intend to give 1/3 to 1/2 of the space in the tank to plants. Similar to this build in almost all ways.