Cutting frag's...

[TANGOMAN]

I'm kinda' goona' direct this question to ol' Bob. Any other "hackers with advice are requested to join in. That's why I avoided a "PM" to the ol' grump. :lol: . Besides, I know ya'll enjoy reading my dumb questions...

So Bob gave me pretty nice Colt Coral at the last meeting. No, actually, he sold it to me! (after all the nice names I call him... :rolleyes: ). It's been doin' awesome and I'd like to cut a frag and see if I can make two. That's the concept isn't it? The last time I "butchered" a coral (finger-leather) it leaked for a bit and then died... :frown: . A.J. set me straight and informed I should have allowed the specimen to acclimate prior to surgery. I should have known better and now I do for sure.
Do I make a full vertical cut at one of the "branches" or a vertical cut to where the branch meets the "base" and then a small horizontal cut... ? :confused:

[AJ_77]

I enjoy your questions, Doug, but I won't call them dumb.
:biggrin:
I disagree with cutting up a coral as a reward for it doing really well. If it's in high demand or rare, then okay, but if it's doing well then let it grow and become a mature specimen. Our typical little pieces are nothing close to what they could be, anyways.

Don't start chopping for the sake of chopping (been there done that) - wait until fragging is necessary, like when they start to overgrow the space allotted. Just my take on things, I think the concept is to grow them up to be large and healthy.

Zoos are different, though. There's a bit of a frenzy lately, so we're fragging our frags... :mrgreen:

[Dresden]

from what i sawat the last meeting, u can use the following to obtain frags..

clippers
wire cutters
chisel and hammer
sledge hammer
small explosive device

course some tools are easier to control the size of the frags

[eposer]

Take a nice clean razor blade and cut off a "branch" just below where it forks. This will give you a nice V, to elastic it to some LR so it won’t come off. Don't bother trying to glue the colt to the LR. It won't hold for more than a day or two. Believe me I have tried. Where you have taken the cutting from the parent colony you will see many small exposed circular filaments. These will form the pharynx for new polyps, which will become visible within a week or less and full-grown in two. It's quite amazing how quickly they recover. Your frags will take a couple weeks or more to attach themselves as well.

[Bob I]

OK, let's try to bring a little sense to this thread. I don't want to tell Alan he is wrong, especially after the nice zoos he left me. However, Alan in this case you are not quite right. And Evan your description probably is correct in most cases. However, in the case of my Colt on which you tried that trick, it did not work. The elastic cut through the frag, and it became two free floating frags. So far I have managed to get one piece to attach by trapping it in a small tupperware container surrounded by rubble. I am still waiting for another piece to anchor.
The Colt I sold Doug is quite different. It is what they call White Colt. It is an encrusting, low growing coral. The way I fragged it was by chopping up the rock it came in on into a number of pieces. That coral spreads from the base. So if you place it next to another rock, it will grow onto that rock, and you can easily divide it by cutting, and both will be attached. Alternatively you can attach the small piece of rock the coral arrived on onto a bigger rock using epoxy or Krazy Glue. Then when it has spread, you can chop up the rock like I did.

:crazyeye: :onfire:

[AJ_77]

OK, let's try to bring a little sense to this thread.TOO funny... I don't want to tell Alan he is wrong... However, Alan in this case you are not quite right.Hello? Is that English? If I'm not wrong but still not quite right, then what is wrong? I posted no technique, just opinion and advice. Which of these is wrong??

If he is set on fragging, then he now has ample advice. Thanks for clearing things up.

:confused:

[Bob I]

Hello? Is that English? If I'm not wrong but still not quite right, then what is wrong? I posted no technique, just opinion and advice. Which of these is wrong??

I am not sure about the maturity of this coral, as it grows laterally, it may be as mature as it gets.

If he is set on fragging, then he had ample advice before your post. Thanks for clearing things up.


I just wanted to say that the advice given was not correct for this particular coral, as I think Iam the only person in our group who has a lot of experience with this coral I feel my advice is more correct. :rolleyes: :eek:

[AJ_77]

Right you are.

[kari]

How about a hammer drill in a plastic bag to break up the rock? Also, a heavy guage grounding probe might help if drilling right in the tank.

Sorry but I'm not of much help with Colts. I tried fragging an overgrown colt once long time ago with poor results. As for the encrusting type, if its similar to the one I have, it seems easiest to let it encrust onto to the rock of your choice. Then seperate them.

Note:these softies really, really don't admire star polyps. If you have star polyps nearby don't let them spead on the same piece. I found out the hard way :sad:

kari

[TANGOMAN]

Way to go Alan ! Gettin' Bob's blood pressure up...Kari, a hammer drill in a plastic bag ??? :eek: . You've been spending too many hours in the bush my man... :drinking: And Bob, you are NOT the only person in our group that has a lot of experience with this coral. It's my coral and I paid for it. It's in my tank and I look at it every day. Does that not entitle me to say I have experience...aaah, never mind. Just tryin' to spike your blood pressure... :razz:
Maybe what I will do is just let it continue to spread and "cut it loose" at a later date... :confused:

[Delphinus]

I have to back up Bob on this one. Elastics used to secure some frags, espescially softer liquid filled (for lack of a better term) corals such as mushrooms and colts, can sometimes just cut through the frag leaving you with two or more smaller (and unattached) frags. Colt frags in particular are notorious for not cooperating when you want them to attach to something. Some people suggest (I have never tried this myself) that "sewing" the frag onto a rock with nylon, cotton, or fishing line might help. Either the frag simply grows over the thread, or if you use something like cotton it will eventually disintegrate. But like I said I have never tried this myself, so take such advice with the appropriate sized grain of salt (or whatever your favourite condiment may be -- perhaps some cayenne pepper might be nice?)

[AJ_77]

As it's encrusting, probably a similar process to fragging zoanthids - a well-placed chisel and a few taps from a mallet? This works really well for controlled rock-splitting, although with the larger base of the leather some cutting is also involved?

[Canadian Man]

The sewing trick works very well and I bring it up everytime that the colt or other softies are mentioned. Drill two holes in the rock you want it attached to and sew the frag on in an X pattern and all is done. the coral grows over the thread and all is good.

[eposer]

I find elastics work very well as long as they're not too tight and not too thin. Maybe it's just my super mutant colt though?

Good luck.

Evan.

[Seriak]

All my tree corals have been fragged using the V method and with an elastic. Like evan said, the elastic has to be fairly loose so it is not realkly putting pressure on the coral just a force holding it down. For a couple of bucks you should be able to get a vaiety pack of elastics with every imaginable size. This seems to be the easiest method I have found.

[Bob I]

Does that not entitle me to say I have experience...aaah, never mind. Just tryin' to spike your blood pressure... :razz:
Maybe what I will do is just let it continue to spread and "cut it loose" at a later date... :confused:

You are entitled to say anything you desire. If that Colt I sold you (inexpensively too) is doing the same as a piece I still have, you will notice small growths on the base. These growths usually anchor to the rock it is on, and it spreads. It might be better to surround the rock with other rocks, and allow it to grow onto them. When it has done that (some time down the road), you can either cut them apart or even just pull them apart. Then you will have more to sell to recoup your large investment.http://www.crazypics.de/smilies_froehlich/froehlich026.gif

[Bob I]

All my tree corals have been fragged using the V method and with an elastic. Like evan said, the elastic has to be fairly loose so it is not realkly putting pressure on the coral just a force holding it down. For a couple of bucks you should be able to get a vaiety pack of elastics with every imaginable size. This seems to be the easiest method I have found.

I don't doubt you fellows have a lot of experience with tree corals, but we are NOT talking about the treelike forms here. We are speaking of a low growing, encrusting type of Colt. It seems to not get any taller than 2.5 inches, and spreads from the base. Thus it handles differently, and much easier too. :2gunfire:

[Seriak]

I would like to see a picture of this coral. My Colt is definatley taller than 2 1'2 inches.

[Bob I]

I would like to see a picture of this coral. My Colt is definatley taller than 2 1'2 inches.

I will do that as soon as you spell definitely correctly. Up to the blackboard, and write definitely 1000 times. :rofl:

Sometimes called "White Colt" or when I bought it , it had been invoiced as "Baby Leather"

http://members.shaw.ca/rcipema/cladiella_sp.jpg

[Seriak]

Hey, I have not done lines since grade four and I am not about to take up that hobby again. Too much other stuff needs to be done first. Let's see, count the holes in the ceiling above me...
:smile:

[TANGOMAN]

Hey Bob, that's not my coral... :confused:
The one you sold me for a bargain price. Did you think I was complaining I paid too much ? :redface: Never ! You set me up with some awesome specimens !!! I two wus thinking uf pooting roks uround it two alow et two spred unto...me smart. just like boB !

[Bob I]

Hey Bob, that's not my coral... :confused:

Well it should look something like that. I have only one other Colt, and I still have both frags I made of it. :evil:

[Delphinus]

I found using elastics to be a rather delicate balance. If too tight, it will cut through (depends on the type of coral though ... some I'm sure wouldn't have that problem), and if too loose, then the frag can wiggle out. Some frags have a mind of their own and just completely refuse to cooperate. But hey if it's worked for you then it's a method not to be knocked. I'm just speaking from my own experience (my experience is only ever about "things that didn't work." :confused: Just once I'd like to be able to share an experience such as "hey here's an idea that I tried and that WORKED!!! for me." :neutral: Until that day comes though, then I just throw in my comments from the peanut gallery ... which is all my comments are worth.) :smile:

[kari]

Hey Bob;
Is the latin name not Cladiella sp.? (I suck at ID) Is that the same as you seem in my tank? If so, I am sticky to the method of placing another rock beside it (just like you also noted.) Easy, painless and no stress to the mother. I watched mine encrust onto another rock and produce a piece matching the original one within 30 days +/- (3" diameter.) :smile:
Unfortunately, star polyp swallowed up the mother.
:sad:

kari
( a hammer drill is much like a chisel and mallet except less effort )

[Bob I]

Hey Bob;
Is the latin name not Cladiella sp.?

Yup, that's what I came up with, but I am sorry, I can't recall seeing it in your tank. However, I am sure it is there. The method you used seems the best. If you leave it grow on the same rock, you get many heads, and then you have to split the rock. :turn-l: