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View Full Version : Probably the most provocative article in a long while...


kwirky
08-17-2008, 06:18 AM
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

It's a LONG read but holy cow, there's a lot in there... Feldman and Maers are on to something here I think...

First they provide actual data explaining the reason why excessive dosing of carbon systems bleaches coral. The TOC (total organic carbon) increase causes the corals' natural bacteria population to double and kill the coral. Hence why dosing too much zeostart or vodka can nuke a tank.

Then they looked at data comparing TOC of their tank running the skimmer and without and found that the TOC didn't change much. They did say it's early evidence and requires more testing of other aquariums, but the results show that heavy skimming didn't affect the TOC of the tank a whole lot. How scandalous!?

It's a provocative article that follows the current trends in the hobby (and the environmental issues surrounding coral reef bleaching in the wild). But really, who is going to give up their meshwheel skimmers when they empty their collection cup from that nasty brown stuff? ;)

But yah, read the article. It's not an easy read but there's just SO much interesting stuff to talk about in there :)

Myka
08-17-2008, 07:06 AM
Awesome! Thanks for posting! :)

midgetwaiter
08-17-2008, 07:54 AM
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

It's a LONG read but holy cow, there's a lot in there... Feldman and Maers are on to something here I think...



They're on to a few things there, you could start 5 different threads looking at different implications of this.


First they provide actual data explaining the reason why excessive dosing of carbon systems bleaches coral. The TOC (total organic carbon) increase causes the corals' natural bacteria population to double and kill the coral. Hence why dosing too much zeostart or vodka can nuke a tank.


I found the most interesting aspect of that information the differences that Rohwer et al. found when they tried similar dosing on different species. If you also consider the differences between aquarium and wild specimens they cited from Kooperman it leads you to some interesting questions. It really highlights the fact that each reef aquarium is unique, so unique we aren't even able to describe the extent of the differences.

I think holobiont is my new favorite word.

Interesting question: If we are encouraging certain species of bacteria to flourish through carbon addition are we also risking increased bacteriophage growth? Could some of these bacteriophages also be able to infect the bacteria colonies that are part of the coral holobiont? That could have serious implications.


Then they looked at data comparing TOC of their tank running the skimmer and without and found that the TOC didn't change much. They did say it's early evidence and requires more testing of other aquariums, but the results show that heavy skimming didn't affect the TOC of the tank a whole lot. How scandalous!?


Somebody at Royal-Exclusive just fainted. :)

i have crabs
08-17-2008, 03:22 PM
i didnt read the article yet but skimmers are not just aimed at organic carbons thier is alot more to consider like dissolved organics, micro organisms that assimilate phosphate and other nutrients also the removal of surfactants that hinder gas exchange.
ive has tanks run quite well with and without a skimmer but im not gonna unplug any skimmers

Myka
08-17-2008, 04:04 PM
Ive has tanks run quite well with and without a skimmer but im not gonna unplug any skimmers

:lol: Me too. In fact, I have yet to notice any significant difference when I add a (high quality or otherwise) skimmer!

marie
08-17-2008, 04:12 PM
:lol: Me too. In fact, I have yet to notice any significant difference when I add a (high quality or otherwise) skimmer!

I noticed a difference when I added the bubbleking. It noticably improved the water clarity

Myka
08-17-2008, 05:55 PM
I noticed a difference when I added the bubbleking. It noticably improved the water clarity

That's the only thing I've ever really noticed with the use of skimmers. That and they help with nutrient buildup (production of phosphates and nitrates primarily), which is indispensible in an SPS tank where a nutrient poor environment is the goal.

I have found though, that if you keep a healthy population of fast growing corals that absorb nutrients out of the water readily (gsp, xenia, anthelia, etc) they can keep up with nutrient removal in the average "well maintained" and considerately stocked tank. I prefer to use gsp as it's growth is easier to control - just keep it off the rocks. I've never kept clams, but I would venture to guess that it's likely they would contribute significantly as well. In fact, I have found that many LPS corals thrive BETTER without a skimmer, or at least with a crappy skimmer.

I didn't say any of that though...that's a can of worms that I don't normally care to discuss. ;)

PoonTang
08-18-2008, 04:32 AM
I prefer to use gsp as it's growth is easier to control - just keep it off the rocks. I've never kept clams, but I would venture to guess that it's likely they would contribute significantly as well. In fact, I have found that many LPS corals thrive BETTER without a skimmer, or at least with a crappy skimmer.

I wonder if Marie would trade me her Bubble king for a GSP encrusted SeaClone? Might be just the ticket for her tank :twised:

midgetwaiter
08-18-2008, 04:43 AM
All jokes aside, all you can really infer from this is that the skimmer doesn't seem to do what we thought it did in terms of DOC, at least not directly. Nobody can really advocate ditching their skimmers based on this.

i have crabs
08-18-2008, 12:38 PM
All jokes aside, all you can really infer from this is that the skimmer doesn't seem to do what we thought it did in terms of DOC, at least not directly. Nobody can really advocate ditching their skimmers based on this.

speak for yourself, i just ditched 2 rs250's in the trash

Delphinus
08-18-2008, 07:38 PM
Hmmm, interesting. Without reading the article as yet (I'll try to read it later if I can), for me though, I guess it comes down to this: My skimmer produces dark nasty smelly goop water. I assume it's fish poo that makes it like this. If I didn't have the skimmer, that goop would stay in the tank. Whether it's DOC or TOC or ABC doesn't really matter to me very much, what matter is that it smells bad and I think my tank is better off having it taken out than left in.

Myka
08-18-2008, 07:41 PM
I wonder if Marie would trade me her Bubble king for a GSP encrusted SeaClone? Might be just the ticket for her tank :twised:

Exactly why I don't usually bother mentioning anything on my experiences regarding skimmers. :p Not quite what I meant! ;)

marie
08-18-2008, 08:08 PM
Just for the record, Marie is NOT going to give up her bubbleking for anything even something as tempting as a GSP encrusted seaclone :razz:

albert_dao
08-19-2008, 12:13 AM
What about a sugar-encrusted Delphinus?

OCDP
08-19-2008, 12:28 AM
What about a sugar-encrusted Delphinus?

:lol:

I also agree, my skimmer gives me much more water clarity. When I add in carbon, even moreso. The brown gunk is much better out than in, IMO as well.

marie
08-19-2008, 12:58 AM
What about a sugar-encrusted Delphinus?

I'll have to think about that one...I'll get back to you :lol:

bv_reefer
08-19-2008, 09:15 PM
nothing beats a good skimmer IMO, as delphinus mentioned , at the end of the day, that brown gunk is in the collection cup and not in the tank causing algae out breaks and other crap...and besides with out a good skimmer where would we get that nice therapeutic smell of skimmate:mrgreen:

PoonTang
09-17-2008, 03:39 AM
Part 2 is now out...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2
Throw away your skimmers and buy more carbon :)