Vendor Ratings Forum

[christyf5]

In the advent of attempting to have some sort of ratings system we have decided to create a Vendor Ratings Forum (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=138) where various vendors can be rated via a voting process only. There is no posting in this forum. As in the past any negative posting anywhere else on the board will still be removed from the board for legal purposes.

Please do not vote if you have not purchased anything from said store. If you went in, looked around and left this does not count and you should not be voting as you have not had the full experience and can not really rate a store based on looks alone.

LINK TO VENDOR RATINGS FORUM: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=138


Note to potential consumers of products sold by companies posted in the vendors rating forum:

These polls are meant as guidelines only and are not to be taken as gospel when purchasing a product from vendors. Your experience may vary/caveat emptor/buyer beware. Canreef thanks its sponsors, for they keep the board running. However we do not automatically endorse anyone. It is up to you to do the research.

If you have questions or doubts on a vendor feel free to solicit information via PRIVATE MESSAGE ONLY (ie. post a thread calling for PMs on a certain vendor).

Thanks
Canreef Staff

PS: For those of you that voted in the previous version of the vendor ratings forum, I apologise as that was only a "draft" and wasn't supposed to be released to the public. You will have to revote as they have all been reset.

[noirsphynx]

How about Blue World Aquarium & Aquarium Enthusiasts?

[EmilyB]

Gold, Ocean City, Elite?

[JDigital]

Gold, Ocean City, Elite?

Red Coral Aquariums...

[Keri]

King Ed ? :biggrin:

[JDigital]

I did think this was only going to be for Vendors on the forum. I don't see links to all the vendors that have been added to the list, and the ones that are in the vendor forums, aren't on the list yet.. :question:

[christyf5]

Are you guys not seeing the second page? Half of those should have polls already. I'll add the new ones :biggrin:

[Oceanic]

Are you guys not seeing the second page? Half of those should have polls already. I'll add the new ones :biggrin:

:lol:

[christyf5]

:lol:

:rofl: I even put a sticky saying that there were TWO pages to the forum. You guys are just too excited about voting :razz:

[JDigital]

:rofl: I even put a sticky saying that there were TWO pages to the forum. You guys are just too excited about voting :razz:

:redface: oops...

[christyf5]

So its true, you guys don't read my stickies! And after all the effort I put into posting them.....*sigh* :sad:



:razz:

[JDigital]

So its true, you guys don't read my stickies! And after all the effort I put into posting them.....*sigh* :sad:



:razz:

I read SOME... I read the "Please Read Before Voting!!!!!!" but completely missed the "two pages" one.

[wickedfrags]

I think it is unfair to have anonymous ratings for a vendor. Customers should be held accountable for their actions and comments (as should vendors of course). I could easily coordinate to have inaccurate feeback left for vendors/competitors which would be unfair and potentially negatively impact their reputation.

How can I review who has left feedback for me???

[Aquattro]

I think it is unfair to have anonymous ratings for a vendor. Customers should be held accountable for their actions and comments (as should vendors of course). I could easily coordinate to have inaccurate feeback left for vendors/competitors which would be unfair and potentially negatively impact their reputation.

How can I review who has left feedback for me???

If you feel that there has been unfair voting, please contact a staff member. We can review who voted and how they voted. We will be continually monitoring this section for just this type of abuse, and should we see multiple votes from the same IP/posting computer, they will be removed.
If multiple members live in such a location as to share their computer, they will need to average their vote. Abuse of this section will result in it's removal from the board, with no further vendor ratings offered.

[Snappy]

If you feel that there has been unfair voting, please contact a staff member. We can review who voted and how they voted. We will be continually monitoring this section for just this type of abuse, and should we see multiple votes from the same IP/posting computer, they will be removed.
If multiple members live in such a location as to share their computer, they will need to average their vote. Abuse of this section will result in it's removal from the board, with no further vendor ratings offered.
I like the idea but a rating system with no customer accountability is not very reliable making it too easy for people to be unfair while hiding behind their anonymity. For example the mods would have no idea who bought something from whatever vendor or if they even did. As an example of this I've had one negative rating so far but in actuallity I have never had any customer tell me of any complaint after their purchase that wasn't resolved to their satisfaction.

[Zoaelite]

I like the idea but a rating system with no customer accountability is not very reliable making it too easy for people to be unfair while hiding behind their anonymity. For example the mods would have no idea who bought something from whatever vendor or if they even did. As an example of this I've had one negative rating so far but in actuallity I have never had any customer tell me of any complaint after their purchase that wasn't resolved to their satisfaction.

Greg just because you have never had a customer tell you that they were unsatisfied with your services doesn't automaticly that there are none (Even though in my experiences you were fantastic :mrgreen:). I mean really your at 15 VERY satisfied customers to 1 unsatisfied, this polling system is just what you need. In actuality its weeding out bad vendors which leaves you with more buisness right?
Levi

[PoonTang]

Can we vote more than once? say if our satisfaction changes in the future?

[Aquattro]

Can we vote more than once? say if our satisfaction changes in the future?

No, were going to reset the polls every 6 months or so

[Oceanic]

No, were going to reset the polls every 6 months or so


Great idea!

[Matt]

I think it is unfair to have anonymous ratings for a vendor. Customers should be held accountable for their actions and comments (as should vendors of course). I could easily coordinate to have inaccurate feeback left for vendors/competitors which would be unfair and potentially negatively impact their reputation.

How can I review who has left feedback for me???It is a testament to the quality vendors when they want to find and fix even one unsatisfied customer. :) Some are less vigilant in their customer focus. And nobody can please everybody...

[EmilyB]

How do you know vendors aren't reviewing other vendors....not that I think they would or anything....although a few are questionable...

[Myka]

I think it should be a PUBLIC poll where we can see who voted how. That would be much more fair. I think negative votes should definately have to prove their case. If I have a grudge against an employee for example...I could easily leave a negative vote, and never have to explain myself.

[EmilyB]

Exactly, or a grudge against an owner who only talks to you if you are spending money...:lol:

[fencer]

I thimk this a good start. Really if your in the business of selling things expect to have some negatives. If your service is good people will say so. Anonymity guarantees an honest answer. I think most 99.9% of the people on this forum are honest. Considering the amounts of money being spent at these vendors I sure would like to see some opinion about the vendors performance. If I was interested in ordering from a vendor that might have a less than stellar performance, I would be inclined to ask more questions before I order about return policies and DOA polices. Gives vendors a chance to improve their service in deficent areas and ultimately more business for them. This is not a perfect system but consumers have a right to voice too.

[Myka]

Anonymity guarantees an honest answer.

You think? I would think quite the opposite! :)

[mark]

I think it should be a PUBLIC poll where we can see who voted how. That would be much more fair.

Great idea.

Vendors could PM poster to sort out problems if they wish, other users could PM for details and whole thing isn't public.

[fencer]

The system is not perfect. Giving out names will start wars and vendettas on Canreef, usually dragging personal stuff with it. I say give this a trial for a couple of months. The sys admin is watching closely for abuse. I will add one thing vendors who have more 15% negatives, (it is not just about gripes from one person but from many and it is a service problem)...should make it a practice to follow up the orders they just sent.

[midgetwaiter]

I think it's pretty useful as it is. If you expanded the scope of it to reduce anonymity or add some qualitative information to the feedback it would be more useful but a much, much larger undertaking.

IME people enter some situations with unrealistic expectations. With a few years retail experience under my belt I even notice myself doing it sometimes. It's just they way people are.

[Aquattro]

Giving out names will start wars and vendettas on Canreef, usually dragging personal stuff with it.

Exactly what we don't want. And I may want to post that I was unsatisified with a store, but I don't want to rehash out the whole issue. I'm not going to give my opinion if it means some vendor is gonna keep bugging me via PM or thread to be more satisified. Just accept that I wasn't, you can't please everyone.
Anonymity is the only way we feel we can get honest responses. Most people we spoke to would not be comfortable giving a bad rating if their name was attached. They would just say nothing, which would skew a rating to show only good replies.
Honestly, if a vendor has 50 "very satisifed" and 1 "very unsatisified", I'm gonna order from them.

[Aquattro]

How do you know vendors aren't reviewing other vendors.....


We would expect that only people who have dealt with a store would rate it. I might look into random sampling, to verify that a vendor has dealt with a "rater"...

[cprowler]

I think this is the best way to do it. Is it perfect? Absolutely not but I think it the lesser of two evils.

A lot of people are shy and/or anti-confrontational especially other cultures and won’t participate if it is not anonymous. I know people that have been members on CR for years and years that have never posted and only became members just so they can PM and buy stuff from the buy & sell forums.

What was stopping people from vendettas and grudges in a PM? They are basically anonymous, only the person receiving them can see them not the vendors or anyone else. At least this way it is monitored to some extent.

If anything I would think this may be more accurate than starting a thread, “PM me with your experiences with vendor X”. A lot of people might not take the time to reply with positive or negative feedback.

IMO :lol:

[wickedfrags]

Kindly remove wickedfrags.com from this vendor rating forum until controls are in place to ensure people leaving comments are accountable for their comments.

Like some others, I have spent considerable time time trying to establish an online feedback system on canada.frags.org which I provide a link to in my signature attached to every post I make (you can click on it below...)

Individuals who leave any type of feedback on this system (either above or below the average feedback rating) can be traced back to their username, IP address and network card from the computer they used. I can then find out if they are in fact a customer or simply a loyal customer of another sponsor, again, should I see fit under the circumstances. Thanks.

[christyf5]

Kindly remove wickedfrags.com from this vendor rating forum until controls are in place to ensure people leaving comments are accountable for their comments.



Will do.

[wickedfrags]

Thanks!

Will do.

[Chaloupa]

I think it's great....I have to agree with Aquattro...I may not like the service I had with a vendor and I am not about to continue to hash it out in public with that vendor. I would hope that people would be honest, can't ask for more than that. I think for the mod's this is the easiest way (as they do have day jobs and LIVES other than Canreef) and does provide the members of Canreef with "something" to work from without dragging arguments into it.

And again, buyer beware....if you read the stats, post a thread asking people to PM you with personal experience with "such and such" vendor...you can't ask for more...it's more than we had a week ago!

Thanks to the Mods for putting something in place to help!

[christyf5]

I think for the mod's this is the easiest way (as they do have day jobs and LIVES other than Canreef)

What? We do?? Damn! I need to get one of those life thingys! *sigh* :razz:

[Chaloupa]

What? We do?? Damn! I need to get one of those life thingys! *sigh* :razz:

Oh whoops...that's right. Amend that last post to say "and all but Christy have day jobs and LIVES":lol:

[christyf5]

Oh whoops...that's right. Amend that last post to say "and all but Christy have day jobs and LIVES":lol:

well I have a day job now but I'm still working on getting a life :razz:

[sphelps]

Christy, can you remove the vendor rating forum for Engineered Aquariums as well. Although I like the idea I don't think it has been setup appropriately.

I have worked very hard making sure every customer I've had is 100% happy. To the best of my knowledge I've never had an unsatisfied customer and yet someone has voted stating they are very unsatisfied and I'm completely powerless to correct this. If a customer was unhappy I would do everything in my power to change that even if it meant a full refund. I highly doubt that this voter was a customer bur rather some random member with some kind of grudge regarding an unrelated issue.

The major problem with the system is that anyone can vote, only customers of that vendor should be able to vote. This seems like cruel and unusual punishment towards us vendors, I don't think we all need to suffer as a result of one bad egg.

Thanks,
Steven Phelps

On another note, I welcome feedback from actual customers. If you have any issues or concerns with any of my products please contact me directly. After that if you are still unsatisfied feel free to post publicly.

[fencer]

What I might suggest to vendors is that they email out a satisfaction/performance survey to each customer they sell to or deal with, surely this cannot be too much to ask. Or is it? This also provides proof that they asked if the customer was happy or not.

[Powertec]

I like this forum even if the vendors don't want to be apart of it.
I find it funny that a vendor can post all of the positive feedback on the site but don't like if someone posts negative.

I see the point that another vendor can be negative about other vendors, as I have posted send me your pm's about vendors, and i have had vendors pm me about what they have ordered from competition and how i should not order from them, I think vendors shouldn't worry if the positve outways the negative.all in all i like the ratings and good job christy.

[marie]

I don't envy the mods job at all, it appears to be a losing battle to keep anyone happy :neutral:

[Aquattro]

I don't envy the mods job at all, it appears to be a losing battle to keep anyone happy :neutral:

No kidding. A couple of negative ratings, and they're hiding under rocks :)

[Aquattro]

What I might suggest to vendors is that they email out a satisfaction/performance survey to each customer they sell to or deal with, surely this cannot be too much to ask. Or is it? This also provides proof that they asked if the customer was happy or not.


Keep in mind someone's satisfaction level may be based on service received before entering into any sale, and may not have bought anything after being disappointed in the service.

Therefore, a survey isn't going to cut it.

It's laughable, to me anyway, that a vendor can be upset about having one poor rating with dozens of positive ratings. That gets my vote for unsatisfied right there :(

[Brent F]

Kindly remove wickedfrags.com from this vendor rating forum until controls are in place to ensure people leaving comments are accountable for their comments.

Like some others, I have spent considerable time time trying to establish an online feedback system on canada.frags.org which I provide a link to in my signature attached to every post I make (you can click on it below...)

Individuals who leave any type of feedback on this system (either above or below the average feedback rating) can be traced back to their username, IP address and network card from the computer they used. I can then find out if they are in fact a customer or simply a loyal customer of another sponsor, again, should I see fit under the circumstances. Thanks.


Dave,

Since you don't want feedback posted on this site I have removed all posts where I previously commented on frags I purchased from you from this site.

[Snappy]

Coral Master is willing to be critiqued on this rating forum, customer accountability or not. I always follow up with online sales to confirm that things at the very least have met customer expectations. That is the best time for customers to complain if there is an issue, not say everything is fine and then later act like it wasn't. That said, I am for the most part pleased with the rating system but I would just appreciate if/when a customer isn't satisfied they give me an opportunity to correct the problem. My goal is to have 100% very satisfied customers but it seems impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time so I can only worry about what is actually in my control and perform my due diligence. I would also like to add that whoever those few customers are that were not satisfied, please get in touch with me. At Coral Master it's never too late to nmake things right.:biggrin:
Mods keep up the good work, we appreciate all you do!
:lol::question:I am not sure I really understand what "neutral" votes are supposed to mean?? Are they saying they are indifferent and don't have an opinion? Sorry I guess since I almost always have an opinion and more than often voice it I just don't get that option.:question::lol:

[Jason McK]

LOL This is hysterical.

[Zoaelite]

Dave,

Since you don't want feedback posted on this site I have removed all posts where I previously commented on frags I purchased from you from this site.

Have to agree, although I completely respect wickedfrags decision to pull out from our Canreef rating scale I believe that as a vendor you should have nothing to hide. If everyone on canadafrags.ca is raving that you provide excellent service then it should be the same here on canreef. I personally have made the decision to not purchase product from vendors on the site that choose not to have there services rated. When it comes down to the bottom line, if you practice good business etiquette and make sure your customers are happy then you have nothing to worry about. Yes vendors should be stopped from posting on other vendors and yes the votes should be monitored (This is canreef though and the mods do an amazing job of it!) but to say that no one can rate you because you believe you always provide 100% customer service is absolutely ridiculous!

[superduperwesman]

WHAT EVER HAPPEN TO ACCOUNTABILITY?

I think the whole point of these polls coming about was due to vendors not having to be accountably for unsatisfied customers, but all we've done now is removed customer accountability. Customers can now come and bash vendors with out any qualification or quantification. Great! Now we know some people are satisfied and others are not but we've left out the most important part... WHY?

We also don't even know if the votes are from customers? "Yeah I'm very unsatisfied with _______ because I'd have to drive all the way across town to get there."

Typically I don't like to reinvent the wheel. See what works and steal it... EBAY.

Yeah people can leave feedback (vendor accountability) but it says who left it and gives them a chance to comment and say why (customer accountability), then replies from both seller and buyer can take place which is kinda like... wait... A THREAD!

If people wanna come on a praise a vendor they should be able to at which point the vendor can say thank you.

If people want to come on a bash a vendor they should be able to at which point the vendor can come on and explain/fix the issue or just hope to many people don't see.

^ Kinda like real life. I can walk into a store and say "man everything I got is doing great thanks sooo much I'll tell all my friends about you"... or I can walk in and say "what the hell... people are gonna hear about this crap"

Sometimes people are in the store to hear and thats just life.

There will always be retarded people who are just being stupid but I think typically those people are scene for what they are... retarded

But no matter what removing accountability is a bad idea... Thats why people have a problem with vendor immunity and why vendors have a problem with anonymous voting.

Just my $1.65

[Zoaelite]

Coral Master is willing to be critiqued on this rating forum, customer accountability or not. I always follow up with online sales to confirm that things at the very least have met customer expectations. That is the best time for customers to complain if there is an issue, not say everything is fine and then later act like it wasn't. That said, I am for the most part pleased with the rating system but I would just appreciate if/when a customer isn't satisfied they give me an opportunity to correct the problem. My goal is to have 100% very satisfied customers but it seems impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time so I can only worry about what is actually in my control and perform my due diligence. I would also like to add that whoever those few customers are that were not satisfied, please get in touch with me. At Coral Master it's never too late to nmake things right.:biggrin:
Mods keep up the good work, we appreciate all you do!
:lol::question:I am not sure I really understand what "neutral" votes are supposed to mean?? Are they saying they are indifferent and don't have an opinion? Sorry I guess since I almost always have an opinion and more than often voice it I just don't get that option.:question::lol:

Thank you Greg! You sir are the type of vendor that I want on this forum, plain and simple no beating around the bush getting things done properly! I ask very politely and apprehensively for the rest of the vendors to follow Gregs lead, you are all great businesses and the populace of canreef does reward that with positive reviews!

[sphelps]

I want make it clear that I like the idea, and agree with what most people have said, but there's a right way to do things and a wrong way.

Can we setup a system where people can post rather than voting or at least both? Just having polls is pretty meaningless, as stating voters need some kind of accountability. I've never seen a system like this and I really don't think it's going to work.

It's funny how some are saying vendors are hiding but it's the members that are hiding not the vendors. It's also amusing that you're not allowed to actually post anything negative about vendors but you're now allowed to vote anonymously? This seems to be a huge contradiction.

I would rather have people freely post their experiences, good or bad. This way we could at least correct them or be aware of the problem. How can you fix a problem if you don't know what it is??

[Brent F]

I would rather have people freely post their experiences, good or bad. This way we could at least correct them or be aware of the problem. How can you fix a problem if you don't know what it is??

You hit on the root of the problem. Since feedback, good or bad, is against the rules and feedback is usefull to everyone we are stuck. This might not be the ideal solution but at least it is trying to find a solution which is great to see.

[marie]

Some of you have obviously not been around when feedback was allowed. Back then, any negative feedback often ended in childish name calling and bickering more reminiscent of a school yard then a reef board and it would go on for pages and pages like that

[sphelps]

Since feedback, good or bad, is against the rules and feedback is usefull to everyone we are stuck.

If feedback is against the rules, then we're breaking the rule with this system. Let's at least do it right. Stop beating around the bush, lets just allow all feedback. I have no problem with this.

And you're right it is good to see something being done and the mods are doing a good job. I'm just trying to help. I assure you almost all vendors will not like this system as is.

[Zoaelite]

"It's funny how some are saying vendors are hiding but it's the members that are hiding not the vendors. It's also amusing that you're not allowed to actually post anything negative about vendors but you're now allowed to vote anonymously? This seems to be a huge contradiction."

Now am I hiding by choice or because I have to? I have voiced my opinion many times before (and had my hands slapped a few also) but its not up to the members if we can post reviews, in theory its up to the mods/ admins and sponsors. I do agree, there has to be some form of accountability in this method otherwise its swinging to the far left of the pendulum. We need to find a center point ( That's why were discussing it here though :biggrin:!)
Levi

[sphelps]

^agreed

I think a quick solution would be to make the polls public. This way vendors could at least verify if the voters are customers (my major concern), if they are not we could contact the mods and have the vote removed. We could also contact members privately if someone was dissatisfied.
Also members could contact other members and inquire what they liked or disliked about the service provided. I think this is the minimal requirement of such a system.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

I like the idea. I would also support making voting public. That way, you wouldn't get the public "he said-she said" name calling game, but there would be accountability and the chance for reparation.

Having said that, I also understand if it must be left as is and hope the mods don't see this as a criticism! Go mods!

[wickedfrags]

To what end? I am not opposed to any comments in my sponsored forum and would hope staff would not modify comments without my permission.

Dave,

Since you don't want feedback posted on this site I have removed all posts where I previously commented on frags I purchased from you from this site.

Why must comments be anonoymous???????????? I fully support a system that allows discussion of issues on this board.

Have to agree, although I completely respect wickedfrags decision to pull out from our Canreef rating scale I believe that as a vendor you should have nothing to hide. If everyone on canadafrags.ca is raving that you provide excellent service then it should be the same here on canreef. I personally have made the decision to not purchase product from vendors on the site that choose not to have there services rated. When it comes down to the bottom line, if you practice good business etiquette and make sure your customers are happy then you have nothing to worry about. Yes vendors should be stopped from posting on other vendors and yes the votes should be monitored (This is canreef though and the mods do an amazing job of it!) but to say that no one can rate you because you believe you always provide 100% customer service is absolutely ridiculous!

[Brent F]

To what end? I am not opposed to any comments in my sponsored forum and would hope staff would not modify comments without my permission.

Why must comments be anonoymous???????????? I fully support a system that allows discussion of issues on this board.

Any negative comments are not permitted so would be removed from your sponsor forum as they would from any other. Since only positive comments are permitted I decided not to comment on any vendor who does not want to participate in the polls.

If vendors opt out they shouldn't be surprised if customers do too. I have a difficult time with the rules for one vendor being different than all others. I can post feedback on everyone except you under the current setup and decided if you don't want my feedback it is inappropriate to comment at all on any purchases.

The moderators have done well with this first attempt at trying to find something workable. I anticipate we will end up somewhere other than where we are right now. Why not work with them instead of opting out?

I see your point on anonomous comments. I don't have problems with voting being public. I also don't have problems with the current setup where voting is confidential and the vendors have the ability to ask the moderators to investigate to ensure the votes are legit.

[Monti-Man]

I have dealt with bussiness's that before i have even bought something I received the poorest customer service and choose not to shop there.So should i not be able to rate them because i never purchased anything there? i have received details(promises) on shipping,packaging etc before i actually enetered into the sale and had i known about the bussiness from some other way than i wouldn't have shopped there.Sure the product might be okay but in all reality the customer service sucks as they lied from the get go. Its not all about the purchasing power. Customer Service has alot to do with a voting system as we'll.


I would think that the vendors with good customer service and rating's have nothing to worry about when it comes to 2 upset people and 30 happy customers. Example(Snappy)
Yes indeed if you have alot of unhappy people than either something is up(pm a mod) or you need to reevaluate how you are running your bussiness.

You can't please everyone. Do you think places like Future Shop etc....Really care about the people they have ticked off along the way. They have enough "Happy" customers to still run a good bussiness.

[wickedfrags]

I agree with your thoughts and understand your rationalle, it makes sense to me.

I would be happy to work with any staff on this issue, I think forum members deserve this type of information to be available. I choose to opt out until the system adds more value for members.

Any negative comments are not permitted so would be removed from your sponsor forum as they would from any other. Since only positive comments are permitted I decided not to comment on any vendor who does not want to participate in the polls.

If vendors opt out they shouldn't be surprised if customers do too. I have a difficult time with the rules for one vendor being different than all others. I can post feedback on everyone except you under the current setup and decided if you don't want my feedback it is inappropriate to comment at all on any purchases.

The moderators have done well with this first attempt at trying to find something workable. I anticipate we will end up somewhere other than where we are right now. Why not work with them instead of opting out?

I see your point on anonomous comments. I don't have problems with voting being public. I also don't have problems with the current setup where voting is confidential and the vendors have the ability to ask the moderators to investigate to ensure the votes are legit.

[sphelps]

It's important to note not all us vendors are the same. I for one have very small customer bases and as a result, for the most part, get to know all my customers quite well. I always ensure my clients are completely satisfied so either someone took one of my posts too seriously or I have an angry customer. Either way I have no way of resolving the issue. If there's a problem I would like to fix it.

Also what about all those great local stores supporting this site? I've seen it many times, someone with little experience buys a piece of livestock without knowing much about it. It either dies or does something they don't like and they blame the store for not having mind readers. Now when they're still mad they can vote on these forums. The next day the same guy is back at the same store buying something else. And the whole time that LFS just wanted to support the site and let people know where they are.

[blaster]

I think since the venders are the ones paying for advertising on this site,there input should be heard

[fencer]

Wrong...they pay for the right to advertise, not the right to dictate how Sys Admin runs the forums.

[blaster]

same thing

[Aquattro]

Well, my recommendation to the rest of the staff is that this feature again be removed. Regardless of what we do, half like it, half don't.

You try so hard, and nobody ever gives you an inch....:(

[blaster]

I'm sure you could make it work brad.This was the first kick at the can

[Brent F]

Well, my recommendation to the rest of the staff is that this feature again be removed. Regardless of what we do, half like it, half don't.

You try so hard, and nobody ever gives you an inch....:(

Too bad, I think it is real close and I have found it very useful.

[Aquattro]

I'm sure you could make it work brad.This was the first kick at the can

Nope, seriously, half the people want it to show names, half don't. I've PM'ed many people with thoughts, and we're just not gonna win here.

My only other suggestion was to have a review lounge, and people can post whatever they want, and the sponsors can argue with them there, and the staff stays out. Although when we allowed anything near that, some of our other sponsors offered to advertise elsewhere....so......

[sphelps]

You try so hard, and nobody ever gives you an inch....:(

Are you talking about vendors or staff. I don't remember being asked or even told about this feature, it just showed up. All I want and others may agree is a public voting system and the choice of participation. This is not much to ask so who's not given what?

[Brent F]

That's too bad, Brad.

I quickly viewed the results and found the polls very similar to my own experiences and with the results of PM reference checks. PM's and discussions at parties can provide the same info. It was just nice to see it in one place instead of having to PM a bunch of people.

Thanks for the effort.

[Aquattro]

Too bad, I think it is real close and I have found it very useful.

Yup, real close, but we can't get any closer and please anymore people thatn we have now. Some people will not vote negatively if they're gonna get called out, and therefore we get good reviews on a place that might not deserve it.

So here is a scenario. I go into your store, and I'm just not impressed. I don't like the way you greeted me, or didn't greet me. I look around, I don't like what I see, and I leave without buying anything. I come on here, I put a review that I was not satisified with the store, because things just weren't right. Next, I get a PM from you hounding me for reasons, and really, I just don't want to deal with you, that's why I left the store in the first place. But you won't leave it, or don't agree, so you pester the mods to remove what you feel is a wrongful review. Well, it was my honest review, and I'm allowed to offer it. I tell anyone I meet the same thing without you being able to monitor my conversation, so what gives you access to my vote? Nothing.

Now vendors like Snappy who are able to carry on regardless of getting a single poor review, and understands that maybe, just maybe, someone he dealt with, or almost dealt with, didn't like his Albertan accent, decided to post something dumb. But everyone else, because of his customer service skills, has posted great reviews. He's ok with great reviews, and can handle that maybe someone out of 6 billion people doesn't like him and he carries on doing what he does. Gives good service. I haven't bought from him, but I read the review and am confident that his service is good. It isn't skewed to be good because people were afraid to vote. I feel that I could order frags from Greg and he'll live up to what 99% of the reviews state. So there was one bad one, so freaking what?

[Aquattro]

Are you talking about vendors or staff. I don't remember being asked or even told about this feature, it just showed up. All I want and others may agree is a public voting system and the choice of participation. This is not much to ask so who's not given what?

I'm talking about people in general. I have spoken with people on and off the board that do not feel they would vote if they had a negative review, they don't want the hassle and don't want to get chased down by vendors. Why can't you just accept that someone wasn't happy?

[sphelps]

Well, I think if you're not brave enough to stand up for what you say, you shouldn't say it. Of course you couldn't tolerate vendor abuse, I wouldn't harass anyone like you stated and I don't think anyone who would should be here. I think maybe you're over thinking that one, honestly who would do that?
I'm talking about solving a problem not creating one.


Why can't you just accept that someone wasn't happy?
I'm not necessarily saying I can't accept it, but if that is the case I would like to correct it. One dissatisfied customer is too much in my line of work.

[Aquattro]

Well, I think if you're not brave enough to stand up for what you say, you shouldn't say it.

Well that's just silly. Lots of people are afraid to express their opinions for fear of conflict, etc. Me, If I think you suck, I'm gonna say it, but my Mom, she'd never say anything bad, just not deal with you ever again. Which is what we're trying to accomplish here, is getting an honest vote going by removing that conflict.
Personally, if this gets changed to post names, I will disregard any info the reviews claim and stick to PMs.

we can argue this all night, and we're not going to agree.

[sphelps]

we can argue this all night, and we're not going to agree.

Fair enough, if things change I will gladly participate. I think it's extremely important you contact all vendors and give them the option of participation. The way this was sprung on the vendors was very unprofessional which I found quite surprising for this site.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Canreef is a very civil forum. We are all generally quite respectful. We can strongly agree, but it doesn't get catty. I think this mentality will transfer to the vender review forum. I don't expect to get Jerry Springer all of a sudden.

Thanks to the mods for all your hard work. To the vendors, I hope you find that the review results only reflect the high quality product and service you've provided again and again to the members of this board! I trust that they will.

[Aquattro]

Fair enough, if things change I will gladly participate. I think it's extremely important you contact all vendors and give them the option of participation. The way this was sprung on the vendors was very unprofessional which I found quite surprising for this site.

Actually, we run the board for the users, not the sponsors. We do NOT need to consult you to run our board. Thanks though. I'm already unsatisifed with you and I haven't even dealt with you.

[christyf5]

Vendors --> http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44236

[sphelps]

Actually, we run the board for the users, not the sponsors. We do NOT need to consult you to run our board. Thanks though. I'm already unsatisifed with you and I haven't even dealt with you.

Well to a point this is also a business where the vendors are customers who paid for a certain type of advertisement, if you change the terms and conditions of the agreement before the year is up the least you can do is send them a copy. Where's my customer service :cry:

:mrgreen:

[Aquattro]

Well to a point this is also a business where the vendors are customers who paid for a certain type of advertisement, if you change the terms and conditions of the agreement before the year is up the least you can do is send them a copy. Where's my customer service :cry:

:mrgreen:

I'd have to review the agreement before commenting, as for service, I'll ask Christy to put up a poll for Canreef. :)

[Der_Iron_Chef]

So, how about this weather we're having?.....:eek:

[Aquattro]

So, how about this weather we're having?.....:eek:

Stinkin' hot, eh??

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Stinkin' hot, eh??

It is! For Calgary, for sure. At least for me. But I wear a fat suit :D

[Ephraim]

i thought it was hot in Calgary. But i am in Vancouve for the weekend. I dont know how people live here with the humidity and this heat. I am hiding in a well air conditioned hotel room.

[cprowler]

I don't expect to get Jerry Springer all of a sudden.


Is that the one where the audience throw chars and smash the guests faces in? Because I've got my chair above my head ready to go.:twised:

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Is that the one where the audience throw chars and smash the guest faces in? Because I've got my chair above my head ready to go.:twised:

Spot on! But also, right before you throw the chair, you need to scream something like, "Oh no, you DI'N'T! You ain't my baby's momma!...."

Then all hell breaks loose.

[Underwater]

First you have to take off your shirt and drop your pants (I think that helps with aiming...)

[cprowler]

Oh...ok...I'm new to this.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

First you have to take off your shirt and drop your pants (I think that helps with aiming...)

LOL. You're absolutely right. But chances are, regardless what you do, you'll have to take a paternity test.

[Aquattro]

jeez, I go eat and you guys start smashing shite.....I'm out...

[ShrimSkin]

I've been in management at a high level for a long time. I know I know you're happy for me, it's just hilarious to me that any vendor would object to being rated. There are multi-zillion dollar corporations that pay top dollar to have people anonymously surveyed, they rely on ANONYMOUS info on a scale MUCH larger than vendors on this site (no offense), I would think most vendors on this site could have somewhat decent relationships with their base, I mean I've shopped at J&L like three times and they know my name, where I live, my livestock etc etc.. Do you write your name down next to your votes in elections? No, to prevent possible backlash. If a vendor has sooo many bad ratings, or a prticular post that they think is negative they can easily challenge it. Dodging customer feedback in any form is a big big business mistake. FInd a way to make it work for you.

[Mattgesy]

I think it is unfair to have anonymous ratings for a vendor. Customers should be held accountable for their actions and comments (as should vendors of course). I could easily coordinate to have inaccurate feeback left for vendors/competitors which would be unfair and potentially negatively impact their reputation.

How can I review who has left feedback for me???

I agree!

[michika]

I am so confused now...

So at this very moment are the polls anonymous?

On a somewhat separate tangent, if this goes forward in some way, anonymous or not, will it just be the one vote? I guess I am curious as to if, assuming something works, the staff would expand on on the voting? E.g. polls for how you feel the pricing is in relation to the rest of the city, selection of drygoods, etc. Granted this may be some ways out from the current model, but I'm curious, so I have to ask.

P.S. All bran bars really do taste great!

[Red Coral Aquariums]

Dodging customer feedback in any form is a big big business mistake. FInd a way to make it work for you.

Agreed

Thank you CanReef Staff. Red Coral Aquarium believes this rating system is a valuable first step in Internet (Canreef) customer service. We try to ensure ALL our customers are Very Satisfied and feel this is a positive way to keep customer service and Very Satisfied customers at the forefront of our business.
Thank You.
Kevin
Red Coral Aquarium
(403) 338-1880

[christyf5]

I am so confused now...

So at this very moment are the polls anonymous?

On a somewhat separate tangent, if this goes forward in some way, anonymous or not, will it just be the one vote? I guess I am curious as to if, assuming something works, the staff would expand on on the voting? E.g. polls for how you feel the pricing is in relation to the rest of the city, selection of drygoods, etc. Granted this may be some ways out from the current model, but I'm curious, so I have to ask.

P.S. All bran bars really do taste great!

At this time, the polls are anonymous. We are looking into making them non-anonymous (can't think of the word at the moment) however it would likely only be for canreef vendors and thats only if they're interested in that.

Yes its just going to be one vote. "We" (meaning me because I did all the polls) aren't really interesting in expanding on the voting. If people are really that concerned about drygoods selection they should go to the store or ask for PMs. As for pricing, I doubt we'll ever do that as it gets into a grey area. At this point we're pretty much happy where its at. All we're looking at doing is resetting the polls every 6 months to give vendors an opportunity to change votes (hopefully for the better) as time goes by.

I dunno about those all bran bars, they may taste great but they still look like turds :razz:

[PoonTang]

Really, were all reasonable adults here (for the most part). We all expect honesty from each other and generally get it here with no problems. And i think we can all expect that the ratings will be a pretty reasonable indication of how someone is operating thier business. Its really no different than someone asking for an opinion on a piece of equiptment. Why not just make the whole thing optional? Vendors can chose to partisipate if they want. If they cant handle the fact that someone can, and most likely will, at some point leave a negative feedback then dont sign up. No harm, No foul. And voters, vote if you want to or dont vote, look at the polls or don't, its your choice. Also i would like to see the voter having the OPTION of leaving his/her name, whether they vote good or bad. I think its a extremely useful tool for both parties and just take the results with a small grain of salt.

[fishytime]

By the way....there is a canadian reef website that is dedicated to vender reviews.It was started by someone from canreef that was unhappy with the way things were. It hasnt really taken off yet but.....

[Canadian]

I'm in the same boat as Brad with respect to having no problem leaving onymous (by the way that's the antonym for anonymous for those who were wondering) feedback and dealing with angry or upset vendors. I can see that anonymous feedback probably ensures greater numbers of responses. However, I can also appreciate that onymous feedback where members can post comments would facilitate more comprehensive feedback. In addition, this would allow other members the potential to see how a vendor deals with dissatisfied customers.

But any way it's done I'm happy that the staff has instituted a feedback system that allows for both positive AND negative feedback. In an ideal world, yes, I'd love to see both positive and negative comments with responses from vendors. Those vendors who ascribe to the Cartman mentality of "screw you guys, I'm going home" given their dissatisfaction with the current system may or may not have something to hide. But guys like Greg who evidently understand how to run a successful business and how to utilize any and all feedback provided are without a question an appreciated asset to the reefkeeping community in BC and Canada.

[sharuq1]

Sorry for the "novel".

I'm talking about people in general. I have spoken with people on and off the board that do not feel they would vote if they had a negative review, they don't want the hassle and don't want to get chased down by vendors. Why can't you just accept that someone wasn't happy?
______________

Everyone is showing valid points but I just had to comment on this particular one. While I do agree on the accountability issues on both sides of the argument I have to pointedly agree with this. This is not because I am afraid to tell people my opinion. On the contrary--I pretty much tell anyone I talk to what vendors in the universe I think are fantastic and what vendors I think are terrible and why. Don't worry canreef sponsors, the following paragraph is not about any of you, just a personal experience I had with a business to show a reason besides being "cowardly" that someone might choose not to post a negative when they felt one should be posted.

Unfortunately, not all vendors in the world are of the same mind that they need to act like mature and responsible businessmen (or women) who's main job is to satisfy their customers (thus perpetuating more business). I had a very bad experience with a particular business. I tell every single person I meet that I think they are terrible, why, and recommend no one shop there. And yet, I think were this business in a rating forum such as this one, where that vendor could access my vote-- I might just be afraid to post something negative about them for my own personal safety and the safety of my family. That bad you ask? Yes, not kidding, not everyone is upstanding or honest and when you live in a smaller area and everyone knows you and where you live that can be pretty scary.

Now that is just a case in the extreme, and I highly doubt that something such as that would be a worry from anyone from a canreef sponsor. It is just to show that there can be other reasons why a person would choose not to have a negative vote posted. From my personal standpoint, the anonymous voting should remain anonymous for reasons like the above. From a business standpoint, yes that could of course be bad for all the reasons other people have stated previously.

I hate to say it, but useful as this is for canreef members I just don't see us being able to find a way to keep our sponsors happy the way it is currently set up.

Now I'm just going to throw out some ideas here for discussion purposes (not "let's bash" purposes :lol:). Some have already been done many times, not original, already there are inherent problems, yada, yada, yada. (But hey that is what brainstorming is for.) Somewhere there has got to be a happy medium.

Here's my meager contribution. I have taken the liberty of throwing in some ideas that people posted in this thread because they were really good ideas and deserve an 'I second that'. I am already aware of positives and negatives to the ideas (that are actually mine) posted as well as the fact some don't work, aren't mine, or have been done. The point is that maybe eventually someone will post an idea that would work. Maybe it will end up as a collaboration of several ideas by several people.

--Steal the Ebay way. Customer posts comment and rating. Vendor has chance to respond. Only so many responses from each allowed so it doesn't degenerate.

--Polls optional for vendors.

--We post everyone BUT our sponsors for the polls and leave everything else the way it is

--We go back to the way it was prior to the polls and so be it. Mods do everything they can to make sure it stays fair (one vote per ip, etc.)

--We leave it as is and so be it. Site was fine to begin with.

--We make it so members themselves can choose whether or not their vote is anonymous for the vendor rating poll.

--We leave the polls as they are, take the sponsors only off the polls, and have a "less negative looking" star system and all you see is rated 4 stars out of five or somesuch above sponsor names. This way one bad "vote" has relatively no effect on the star rating, but several unsatisfied votes would. Star votes would be monitored by the mods to ensure that people aren't using the same IP address to cheat, using it from a business, etc. etc.
-Could be anonymous
-Could be reset every so often.
-Could be accessible ONLY by canreef members and/or with so many posts to ensure "Joe Roe" from Fiddletown is a real person with a real opinion and not a made-up person by a friend of 'Mr Ron's Ocean of Hullaballoo' who hates 'Coral Freaks R Us' because the guy running it dated his little sister in high school and stole her pet monkey. (On a side note making up fake names to coral stores for this post is amusing me. :razz: )

--Our sponsors could have their own rating system that can only be accessed by customers through a link and not bother with our poll at all.

--For sponsors only (everyone else leave in the polls, sponsors taken out of polls)--because let's face it they are the ones we need to worry about, continue with the "what do you think of so and so threads: reply via pm?", but have these threads in a section only for those threads so at least they are easy to find by anyone wanting to know the information--> The person wanting to know about said store can just re-post "they want to hear too-please pm" (thus keeping sponsors names from appearing in the bad in public format and keeping opinions from pm'rs new and fresh). There could be a sticky for each name, and whoever wanted to hear about 'Mr. Ron's Ocean of Hullaballoo' could bump it up. It would show up when you click "view new posts", and if you had an opinion on Mr. Ron and his Hullaballoo you could pm said recent person who wants to know.

--Those of us having a negative experience could create an "ugh" thread in a general type section and leave out the stores' name and just tell people to pm them if they want to hear about it. (this has been done ++ before)

There have got to be more suggestions from other people, so let's continue to post them. Vendors, surely you have some ideas too.

[midgetwaiter]

I think everybody needs to really consider what they are asking the canreef staff to do when they want more features added to this. They not only have to set all this up they have to keep on top of it and make sure things stay civil. They're going to be put in the middle of stupid conflicts all the time that can't be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. It's a big job and a crappy one.

[EmilyB]

I might just be afraid to post something negative about them for my own personal safety and the safety of my family


:surprise: http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-038.gif

[EmilyB]

LOL, just read your sticky Christy and didn't understand a word...:razz::lol:

[superduperwesman]

Reefcentral's review system seems pretty good

[niloc16]

good god i'm glad i'm not a mod :biggrin:

[christyf5]

good god i'm glad i'm not a mod :biggrin:

:rofl: Believe me, some days its tempting to just go back to being a regular Joe. I think about it all the time :razz:

[wickedfrags]

Agreed. Open discussion of an issue for 2 weeks then it is removed. Both members and vendors are free to discuss the issue. Exceptions include leaving the thread online longer than 2 weeks due to issues associated with suspected fraud or other suspicious activity.

Reefcentral's review system seems pretty good

[superduperwesman]

Here's an example of what I'm talking about... but the review goes back to March 07 so you must be talking about something else wicked? But I'd be curious to see what you're talking about too?

http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=160

[wickedfrags]

This is the one I was thinking about. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=8

Think if there was one like this on this site, and it could hit the homepage/be bumped, may be some value in that. Then you could hear the vendors thoughts should they choose to have their story heard.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about... but the review goes back to March 07 so you must be talking about something else wicked? But I'd be curious to see what you're talking about too?

http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=160

[Canadian]

Agreed. Open discussion of an issue for 2 weeks then it is removed. Both members and vendors are free to discuss the issue. Exceptions include leaving the thread online longer than 2 weeks due to issues associated with suspected fraud or other suspicious activity.

Why would removing the thread after 2 weeks be at all beneficial to potential customers? Sure, it seems like a great way for vendors to sweep bad feedback under the rug, but as a consumer that's exactly the type of history I want to see in order to help me make my decisions. I could see something akin to eBay where the "issue" is left open for discussion between the vendor and the customer for let's say a couple weeks, but it should certainly be left online for significantly longer than 2 weeks so other customers can utilize the dialogue as Canreef intended - to enable customers to determine if a certain vendor's business practices and quality of products fall in line with what they are seeking.

[wickedfrags]

I think their intent is to remove it once the issue has been addressed/resolved and once members have had the opportunity discuss publicly. I agree than an ebay type system would work.

Why would removing the thread after 2 weeks be at all beneficial to potential customers? Sure, it seems like a great way for vendors to sweep bad feedback under the rug, but as a consumer that's exactly the type of history I want to see in order to help me make my decisions. I could see something akin to eBay where the "issue" is left open for discussion between the vendor and the customer for let's say a couple weeks, but it should certainly be left online for significantly longer than 2 weeks so other customers can utilize the dialogue as Canreef intended - to enable customers to determine if a certain vendor's business practices and quality of products fall in line with what they are seeking.

[Aquattro]

Keep in mind people, that all these things require a significant amount of time from staff, and well, we have better things to do. My recommendation to pull this whole thing still stands. If members want info, PM other members. Pretty simple, and the staff get to do things other than sit here trying (hopelessly) to please people.

[Snappy]

The ratings forum is what it is. No one is getting a perfect score but that's just life in the business world.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/deadhorse.gif

[blaster]

It seems a couple of venders have been deleted.Why?

[Aquattro]

It seems a couple of venders have been deleted.Why?

2 requested to be removed. They got a bad rating and weren't happy about it.

[Aquattro]

The ratings forum is what it is. No one is getting a perfect score but that's just life in the business world.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/deadhorse.gif

You get my next order Greg :)

[fencer]

Good one Snappy...i like your satisfaction policy too...goes along way to your credibilty(not that anything was wrong with it in the first place).
Consumers drive the business. You can't please everybody. Hopefully there are more positives than negatives. If not, a vendor has too really look at the way business is conducted and how they treat the customer base. I also have a small business on the side and reputation carries alot of weight. You really have to earn it. Consdiering in the frag business a whole lot of money is pluncked down to buy frags. So the cash value is not trivial. As a consumer I would like to think I am getting a quality product with service before and after the sale.Sorry for wandering....

[Chin_Lee]

The ratings forum is what it is. No one is getting a perfect score but that's just life in the business world.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/deadhorse.gif

I sure hope that horse is dead and not sleeping.

[wickedfrags]

I requested to be removed at this time, see my post on page 4 (and subsequent posts thereafter) for rationalle. Dave @ wicked

It seems a couple of venders have been deleted.Why?

[Aquattro]

I sure hope that horse is dead and not sleeping.

I thought the saying involved beating a sleeping horse...oops...hmm, I'm sure it's dead. Well, it's dead now for sure.

[Oceanic]

I happen to think the rating system is a good start, resetting once every six months works for me. Accountability is a good thing! I would not want to opt out if I had a negative review especially if the greater portion is positive!

[Murminator]

WOW really walking on a double edged sword here. I like the anonymous feedbacks beacuse then you know there are true feedbacks. If someone is not happy with a vendor they are not going to post in a vendor forums what the problem is to have an online p*ssing match. I have bought frags from vendors that I thought were way over priced for what I got size/quality...guess the money went towards a good photoshop program :wink: but I guess that is my own stupidity for not asking the right questions.
Now if I was getting bad/good ratings from customers I would be asking why? I see only 2 vendors want feedback Wicked frags and Coral Master how come vendors don't set up there own polls on why they like/dislike there shopping experience? and keep it anonymous to help there respective businesses EVERYONE will always give good feedback not everyone will give poor feedback with repercussions. Like Snappy said he got an unsatified customer ...but why? not who? was it price? quaility? experience? maybe if he knew why it wasn't perfect I know he would strive to make it perfect....(Sorry to use you as an example Greg). If some vendors want to pull out of it or some bad reviews so be it guess some want to hide what reallity is
I mod on several boards that do not allow any vendor reviews PERIOD good or bad, it results in hard feeling and p*ssing matches BUT I am going to propose to my boards what you guys have done here the the condtion of anonymity, to ensure a true rating.
Kudos to the Mods for the the vendor rating...keep up the good work :mrgreen:

[Jason McK]

Never mind

[mark]

maybe I'm being naive but why would anonymity give true results. If I got a bad experience or a good why would it make a difference you could see my name. I always have the option not to participate in the poll whatever my experiences.

As for vendors hounding with PM's can't see that being a problem. If they're trying to contact to make right, great, if just hassling I always have the option just to delete (not sure if on this forum one can block) but I really don't think they're that childish or that much time to waste. If the vendor sends me 100 PMs and blocks my inbox, I'll let the mods know.

Believe the easiest would just be having a public poll where one could vote only (not post) and if there was a unsatisfactory vote and the problem resolved the poster contacts the mod to delete the vote, if unresolved the vote stands. Can't see a whole lot of bad votes needing efforts of the mods.

[yeeg]

I happen to think the rating system is a good start, resetting once every six months works for me. Accountability is a good thing! I would not want to opt out if I had a negative review especially if the greater portion is positive!

I dont think it needs to be reset every 6 months...The long terrm average will show the true results moreso than short term stuff...

Also, in response to what wicked frags stated on page 4,

Individuals who leave any type of feedback on this system (either above or below the average feedback rating) can be traced back to their username, IP address and network card from the computer they used. I can then find out if they are in fact a customer or simply a loyal customer of another sponsor, again, should I see fit under the circumstances. Thanks.

Even if the person who voted isnt a customer, that shouldnt discredit their judgement of the said store...For example, lets say my cousin buys a bunch of frags from Joe's Frag Shoppe and loves every bit of the experience...I then go over to his place to see what all the hype about and then realize it doesnt turn my crank due to whatever reason...Of course I would feel the opposite towards Joe's Frag Shoppe than what he feels but its just an opinion...

When I look at these ratings, I am more than happy with a vendor who has 80% in the first 2 categories and would be willing to do business with them...Lets face it, we are all human and no one is perfect...If I see one that has 100% in the top categiory, I would think its too good to be true...If you're perfect, it goes to your head but if you're not, then you strive to get better...

Its normal business practise to have someone who is not entirely satisfied with everything you have...Like someone else said, "you cant please everyone all of the time"...I see it all the time at my office...People look for reasons to b*tch...

[Delphinus]

Wow, I'm gone for 2 weeks and this is what I come back to? You know it's bad when the work pileup to sift through after a two week vacation is a tiny fraction of the Canreef pileup to sift through.

I'm going to throw my two bits in here. Until I'm paid a salary to sort through this stuff, I opt for a system that requires less intervention from me. At this point I'm tempted to support the notion that vendor reviews once again be removed from this site. I really see little to no benefit for the headaches and heartaches that this causes. Canreef exists to share information related to the hobby and in particular the husbandry of captive reef specimens. The emphasis being on information, not trade or business. Canreef is not a surrogate for ebay or other buy/sell type boards. The bandwidth that is required for this site is staggering - thus the costs to keep the board running reflect that - thus we enlisted the aid of vendors to sponsor the site to be able to keep it as a free resource for all. We thank vendors for their support because without them there will be no Canreef as it exists right now. As with all things, caveat emptor. We are not the better business bureau, we are not ebay, we are not reefcentral. We are Canreef and we strive to provide a unique stamp onto the hobby in this country.

[Treebeard]

I completely agree with Tony and think the polls are a waste of the Admins time and completely unnessary! Do your own homework, make your own purchase decisions. If you feel you've been screwed, lesson learned!
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me!

[muck]

Welcome back Tony.. :lol:

[Canadian]

Here, I'll offer this:

Evidently it's too much work for the existing moderators to manage the burden of the current and proposed vendor review systems. Perhaps more moderators are needed. I'm way too busy to do this but I do have a gap usually between 12 and 2 where I don't have many patients to see so I'll volunteer to help moderate things if needed.

[OCDP]

I completely agree with Tony and think the polls are a waste of the Admins time and completely unnessary! Do your own homework, make your own purchase decisions. If you feel you've been screwed, lesson learned!
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me!

I agree. This seems to be a big burden on Canreef. IMO, we were doing just fine without the Vendor Ratings Forum (I guess I am speaking for myself here) but I do agree with Treebeard's post.

[superduperwesman]

Wow, I'm gone for 2 weeks and this is what I come back to? You know it's bad when the work pileup to sift through after a two week vacation is a tiny fraction of the Canreef pileup to sift through.

I'm going to throw my two bits in here. Until I'm paid a salary to sort through this stuff, I opt for a system that requires less intervention from me. At this point I'm tempted to support the notion that vendor reviews once again be removed from this site. I really see little to no benefit for the headaches and heartaches that this causes. Canreef exists to share information related to the hobby and in particular the husbandry of captive reef specimens. The emphasis being on information, not trade or business. Canreef is not a surrogate for ebay or other buy/sell type boards. The bandwidth that is required for this site is staggering - thus the costs to keep the board running reflect that - thus we enlisted the aid of vendors to sponsor the site to be able to keep it as a free resource for all. We thank vendors for their support because without them there will be no Canreef as it exists right now. As with all things, caveat emptor. We are not the better business bureau, we are not ebay, we are not reefcentral. We are Canreef and we strive to provide a unique stamp onto the hobby in this country.

I never understand why mods complain about how they don't get paid and how much time they volunteer... exactly you don't do it because you have to. You do it because you want to. You volunteer. You made that choice and all of this is just part of the job description.

In the same breath I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying you should all just quit because obviously we need you as much as you need us but I'm just saying we all make the beds we sleep in.

Canreef does have buy/sell forums which does kinda put you in the ebay category > buyer and seller meeting ground. And wherever that happens problems arise.. again for whatever reason Canreef choose to have those types of forums and this all kinda goes with the territory.

Being "Canreef" and not ebay or reefcentral does not mean there is nothing that can be learned from these other successful sites, which is why they have been mentioned, not to bash Canreef but to make it better and like this thread has established no one is ever 100% including Canreef and the sucky part is it takes work to get things great which is what we are ALL doing in this thread... working to make Canreef better

[Treebeard]

This ought to be interesting.

Snipped!

[Underwater]

There go the chairs again....everyone duck!!!

[Myka]

Aw...I missed the "interesting" part!!! Dangit!

The bandwidth that is required for this site is staggering - thus the costs to keep the board running reflect that - thus we enlisted the aid of vendors to sponsor the site to be able to keep it as a free resource for all. We thank vendors for their support because without them there will be no Canreef as it exists right now.

I see both sides to the story, although I tend to agree with this A LOT.

You can find out how reputable a vendor is just by asking a simple question: "Can you guys recommend a good vendor for ______ in my area.online/etc please?" Simple. Done. You can bet you will receive a PM or two about vendors to avoid as well. ;)

[superduperwesman]

Again just offering what others have done to help find the best solution for everyone:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5968

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showforum=16

[Aquattro]

You made that choice and all of this is just part of the job description.



That's crap. We do this to enjoy the hobby, not as full time jobs, and our "job description" will be what we decide it is, not what anyone else thinks it should be. IMO, Canreef was just fine last week without this, and I vote we go back to it. At this point, it's that, or it stays the way it is and we'll review it in the fall. This has gone on enough.

[sharuq1]

Agreed

IMO, Canreef was just fine last week without this, and I vote we go back to it.

Despite posting suggestions on this thread to try to help, I also think it was fine before all this. Just my .02

[Myka]

superduperwesman has a mere 64 posts, but succeeds in ****ing off the mods fully. :p

[Aquattro]

superduperwesman has a mere 64 posts, but succeeds in ****ing off the mods fully. :p

And I was just thinking I never welcomed him to the board :)

[superduperwesman]

That's crap. We do this to enjoy the hobby, not as full time jobs, and our "job description" will be what we decide it is, not what anyone else thinks it should be. IMO, Canreef was just fine last week without this, and I vote we go back to it. At this point, it's that, or it stays the way it is and we'll review it in the fall. This has gone on enough.

With great power comes great responsibility :biggrin:

Like I said... it's not and easy job

But I honestly think everyone is just trying to make things better and sometimes you gotta go through the crap to get to the other side and right now thats what we're all doing

If Canreef was "just fine last week" this never would have started

[Aquattro]

No, everyone is mostly not helping or trying to make things better. Some are whining, some are dictating, some are just being difficult. When the crap gets this deep, I'm thinking we're just gonna turn around, or do what we wanted to begin with.

Thanks for all the help to those trying to help, but the staff will decide from here. Have a great day..

Catherine, that would be your queue :)

[superduperwesman]

superduperwesman has a mere 64 posts, but succeeds in ****ing off the mods fully. :p

You don't have to be a fish pro to understand life in general or see problems ;)

Honestly I'm just trying to help and just so there is no DOUBT

I LOVE THIS FORUM!! :biggrin:

[Delphinus]

I never understand why mods complain about how they don't get paid and how much time they volunteer... exactly you don't do it because you have to. You do it because you want to. You volunteer. You made that choice and all of this is just part of the job description.

In the same breath I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying you should all just quit because obviously we need you as much as you need us but I'm just saying we all make the beds we sleep in.


Exactly. And if given the option, I choose to make a bed that is comfortable for me to sleep in, not one made of nails.

My point being is that there is no incentive to make something harder than it needs to be. It's not about a financial incentive, it's about doing something that reaps a reward. I see little reward in repeated hashing over the same points again and again. Thus, until membership asks for me to be removed ... or until the day I decide to leave the board ... you have to put up with me as a moderator here. And my position on this is it this issue needlessly polarizes the membership, and there is little to be gained from it all. Luckily, I am but one voice on the staff here so if you feel this unreasonable, feel free to garner support from any of the other staff members who you feel might be sympathetic to your cause.


Canreef does have buy/sell forums which does kinda put you in the ebay category > buyer and seller meeting ground. And wherever that happens problems arise.. again for whatever reason Canreef choose to have those types of forums and this all kinda goes with the territory.

Respectfully, I disagree with this as well. The buy/sell/trade function is intended as a sideline because we all end up with equipment weno longer use. Ebay is as close to a free-for-all, if it's sellable, you likely can buy it on ebay. And good for them, I'm glad they're there, I use them all the time. But ebay is about business and each and every transaction on ebay results in revenue to the enterprise. Canreef is in no such category nor does it wish to be.


Being "Canreef" and not ebay or reefcentral does not mean there is nothing that can be learned from these other successful sites, which is why they have been mentioned, not to bash Canreef but to make it better and like this thread has established no one is ever 100% including Canreef and the sucky part is it takes work to get things great which is what we are ALL doing in this thread... working to make Canreef better

Frankly I think Canreef is doing just fine being Canreef. And who's to say those other sites can't learn something from us? If it wasn't already a somewhat successful model then the bandwidth costs would likely be far less than what they are. So while suggestions for improvement are always welcomed, recognize that not all of them are workable and thus not all will always be adopted.

[Underwater]

I never got welcomed to the board...
:razz:

[Aquattro]

I never got welcomed to the board...
:razz:

Michelle, welcome to Canreef!!! Ignore all this sillyness, ok? :)

[marie]

Catherine, that would be your queue :)

Just in case Catherines busy :mrgreen:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6493/inbeforethelock3zd.jpg

[Aquattro]

Luckily, I am but one voice on the staff here so if you feel this unreasonable, feel free to garner support from any of the other staff members who you feel might be sympathetic to your cause.



Tony, you mirror everyone else's thoughts on the staff. Thanks again for your input.

[Aquattro]

Just in case Catherines busy :mrgreen:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6493/inbeforethelock3zd.jpg

Figured I was gonna wait for her anyway, but good try.

[muck]

I never got welcomed to the board...
:razz:
LOL... Welcome Michelle!! :mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Delphinus]

Welcome to Canreef to one and all!!!!!!! :lol:

[Underwater]

Michelle, welcome to Canreef!!! Ignore all this sillyness, ok? :)

Why, thank you one and all...It's a pleasure to be here.

If nothing else, you can't say that the Canreef members aren't interesting....:lol:

I don't know what I would do if I didn't have this entertainment. I might have to actually get some work done or something....eeek!

[littlesilvermax]

SWC?

I don't think I saw them.

[Aquattro]

SWC?

I don't think I saw them.

Not sure he's still going. Is Jason still around?

[superduperwesman]

Exactly. And if given the option, I choose to make a bed that is comfortable for me to sleep in, not one made of nails.

My point being is that there is no incentive to make something harder than it needs to be. It's not about a financial incentive, it's about doing something that reaps a reward. I see little reward in repeated hashing over the same points again and again. Thus, until membership asks for me to be removed ... or until the day I decide to leave the board ... you have to put up with me as a moderator here. And my position on this is it this issue needlessly polarizes the membership, and there is little to be gained from it all. Luckily, I am but one voice on the staff here so if you feel this unreasonable, feel free to garner support from any of the other staff members who you feel might be sympathetic to your cause.



Respectfully, I disagree with this as well. The buy/sell/trade function is intended as a sideline because we all end up with equipment weno longer use. Ebay is as close to a free-for-all, if it's sellable, you likely can buy it on ebay. And good for them, I'm glad they're there, I use them all the time. But ebay is about business and each and every transaction on ebay results in revenue to the enterprise. Canreef is in no such category nor does it wish to be.



Frankly I think Canreef is doing just fine being Canreef. And who's to say those other sites can't learn something from us? If it wasn't already a somewhat successful model then the bandwidth costs would likely be far less than what they are. So while suggestions for improvement are always welcomed, recognize that not all of them are workable and thus not all will always be adopted.

You say "put up" like I want you gone? I don't! I do think the mods do a good job and sometimes the "one voice" just needs a little help from some other voices. I'm glad people help me which is why I try to offer a useful opinion because no one has all the answers. And I don't claim to either which is why I keep referencing others (reencentral, nanoreef, ebay).


I said it was kinda the same as ebay (sideline buy/sell = kinda) which is why things might be able to be borrowed from them.


I never said that other sites couldn't learn from Canreef I think they could... and I know not all suggests are workable I'm just throwing some out. Not even ones I can take credit for because I stole them:smile:

[Underwater]

Let's add superduperwesman as a mod and make him in charge of the vendor ratings....

hahaha!! (sorry man-had to be done.)
:razz:

[Treebeard]

Excellent idea! Shall we start a poll? All in favor......:mrgreen:

Let's add superduperwesman as a mod and make him in charge of the vendor ratings....

hahaha!! (sorry man-had to be done.)
:razz:

[superduperwesman]

Let's add superduperwesman as a mod and make him in charge of the vendor ratings....

hahaha!! (sorry man-had to be done.)
:razz:

:neutral: PASS. Thats very ok... like I said I'm very very sure it is not an easy job and as it stands my bed is comfortable.

[Aquattro]

Oh, Catherine, we can't wait all day......

[muck]

Lol... wish we would get this much participation in some of the actual reef related discussions. :lol:

[OCDP]

Lol... wish we would get this much participation in some of the actual reef related discussions. :lol:

:lol: This sucker grew fast. For every page I would finish reading, you guy's would be another 2 pages ahead of me!

[JDigital]

Lol... wish we would get this much participation in some of the actual reef related discussions. :lol:

16 pages in 2 days... :twised: That's crazy!

[sphelps]

It seems pretty obvious at this point what needs to be done, it was a good idea with potential but I fail to see how somewhat random votes from every Joe Smoe being a customer or not represents a vendors reputation. This is certainly not how I want my business represented. I don't have anything to hide but I don't want to feel the need to suck up to ever member on the site either.

Word of mouth travels, and I think people could easily find out what they needed to know before this system was implemented. If someone what's feedback all they have to do is ask.

[Chin_Lee]

Excuse me sir, do you have any Grey Poupon?
http://blogs.mddailyrecord.com/ontherecord/files/2008/07/greypoupon.jpg

[Doug]

That's crap. We do this to enjoy the hobby, not as full time jobs, and our "job description" will be what we decide it is, not what anyone else thinks it should be. IMO, Canreef was just fine last week without this, and I vote we go back to it. At this point, it's that, or it stays the way it is and we'll review it in the fall. This has gone on enough.

Sorry, I,m missing this dandy "DISCUSSION". Seems I,m a bit busy. Gee, we have a life. :lol:

Was kind of my thoughts to Brad, but as Christy has put so much work into it and wishes to try another way, I ok with that.

I for one, never understood the need for vendor reviews. This is an aquarium board, "HOBBY". Since when the heck did we become responsible for retailers, regardless if they sponsor the board or not.

They sponsor to advertise, like all business does. It does not make Canreef or any other boards, responsible for any one particular stores business practice.

Anyways, right or wrong, thats my thoughts. Look at this mess now, because we tried to make it better. :sad:

Either way will not please everyone. Nowhere, on any public board. Period.

[EmilyB]

I thought it was pretty informative, even in that the polls pretty much echoed what I've read and what you'd expect people to say about the stores.

For the stores that pulled out, I don't know. I guess they think they are perfect. :lol:

[superduperwesman]

I thought it was pretty informative, even in that the polls pretty much echoed what I've read and what you'd expect people to say about the stores.

For the stores that pulled out, I don't know. I guess they think they are perfect. :lol:

I agree and think feedback is a good idea because it is informative.

I doubt it.. probably just want to know why they're not perfect. I don't think most people have a problem with constructive criticisms... but a bad vote on an anonymous poll is just criticism on the vendor side, and is still not as constructive as it could be for the buyers.

[superduperwesman]

Can anyone tell I had a slow day at the office? :biggrin:

[Snappy]

I think it's going on 4 years since I was welcomed to Canreef!!:lol:

Hey I recently saw a signature on another forum I quite liked and it went something like:
"Let's work to stop Global Whining"


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/action-smiley-075.gif

[Zoaelite]

Can anyone tell I had a slow day at the office? :biggrin:

Yes, mind you thanks my slow day at the office was a little better because of your posts.
Levi

[wickedfrags]

While I hardly consider myself a store, I am a sponsor, and I think your comment below is short sighted. This thread is a useful and perhaps something that will improve this site for everyone. I hope you were joking....perhaps suggested by the :lol:

For the stores that pulled out, I don't know. I guess they think they are perfect. :lol:

[OCDP]

I never understood the need for Vendor Ratings either... but that's me.

IMO, we put so much time into reasearching WHAT we buy (most of us) What's the extra researching in to WHERE we buy? I know all's I did was ask around as to what's hot and what's not.. simple as that.

Anyways, my .02 cents in all of this... good luck to the Mod's, and a big thanks for all your time and efforts. I am not going to deny that the polls weren't informative, because they were indeed.

[sharuq1]

good luck to the Mod's, and a big thanks for all your time and efforts.
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/funny-pictures-cat-scratches-post.jpg
Well before the thread is locked :razz:

http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/takeanumber.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/3398/canreefpuffer1286358144eq7.jpg

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2425/piranhasonanescalatorql6.jpg

http://www.ancientwarriors.org/forum/images/smilies/361.gif

[Aquattro]

Canreef Puffer...too funny :)

[superduperwesman]

One more just because I do find what others have done interesting

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18

Not saying it'll work here just a FYI and I know you PDC (probably don't care) but I mean no harm

[Aquattro]

Sorry, my mistake. No other thread, false alarm. Let's continue here.

[Aquattro]

Re-opened, closed originally cause I don't read so good :)

[Aquattro]

Ok, synopsis of the morning.

Wes thought posting comments was a good idea.

Dave thought so too

I explained that it will never happen, and why

Wes said never say never

I said never

Shrimskin called me a power tripper

I laughed, said bye

Chin came to my defense, saying it's not power tripping, it's just the ugly truth, and comments will never be allowed in open forums.

Jaws had a reply and I've asked him to put it here.

That about covers it.

Oh, and we love Wes, he wasn't feeling any love.


This was all removed from a thread some mod hijacked before coffee. We should be good now.

Carry on :)

[superduperwesman]

Ok, synopsis of the morning.

Wes thought posting comments was a good idea.

Dave thought so too

I explained that it will never happen, and why

Wes said never say never

I said never

Shrimskin called me a power tripper

I laughed, said bye

Chin came to my defense, saying it's not power tripping, it's just the ugly truth, and comments will never be allowed in open forums.

Jaws had a reply and I've asked him to put it here.

That about covers it.

Oh, and we love Wes, he wasn't feeling any love.


This was all removed from a thread some mod hijacked before coffee. We should be good now.

Carry on :)

I think that does about cover it.. nice summary.

As for the love...:redface: ahah

[superduperwesman]

JAWS Comment

"
I can see this thread getting a little out of control and I contemplated not saying anything but I think I have to fully agree with the vendors here. I understand that the majority of the members are mature enough to post without causing conflict but I've been visiting this board for over five years now and there have always been enough members on this board that don't show the proper discretion enough either to justify not allowing posts in these forums or else it would be a fulltime job policing them. Especially since it's a heat of the moment thing some or most of the time. I know that I don't have enough time to police this board and the staff have done an excellent job with everything I've seen of them thus far. Considering that the names of members are now displayed in the voting results to allow everyone a chance to PM these people personally for their experiences, and it saves the possibility of public slander of the paying vendors, which in turn makes the jobs o!
f the staff easier to administer the rest of the board and not waste most of their time policing a minor detail overall, which in turn makes it so I don't have to do it - makes sense to me. Just my opinion though of course. I can tell you that out off all the threads I've seen get out of hand and heat up at an alarming rate, the majority of the time it involves either bashing or protecting a vendor. Thanks to those that are voting. I appreciate it.

"

[superduperwesman]

JAWS Comment

"
I can see this thread getting a little out of control and I contemplated not saying anything but I think I have to fully agree with the vendors here. I understand that the majority of the members are mature enough to post without causing conflict but I've been visiting this board for over five years now and there have always been enough members on this board that don't show the proper discretion enough either to justify not allowing posts in these forums or else it would be a fulltime job policing them. Especially since it's a heat of the moment thing some or most of the time. I know that I don't have enough time to police this board and the staff have done an excellent job with everything I've seen of them thus far. Considering that the names of "members are now displayed in the voting results to allow everyone a chance to PM these people personally for their experiences, and it saves the possibility of public slander of the paying vendors, which in turn makes the jobs o!
f the staff easier to administer the rest of the board and not waste most of their time policing a minor detail overall, which in turn makes it so I don't have to do it - makes sense to me. Just my opinion though of course. I can tell you that out off all the threads I've seen get out of hand and heat up at an alarming rate, the majority of the time it involves either bashing or protecting a vendor. Thanks to those that are voting. I appreciate it.

"

All I'm saying is once they are established it can't be thatttt bad or reefcentral, nanoreef, and reef2reef wouldn't have those threads... or I guess they just have full time employees?

You just need rules

"A forum for members to share and evaluate their experiences with on-line companies in the Aquaria hobby. Please be sure to stick to the facts when posting comments about your experiences."

"Rules for posting about a Trader:

This forum was created to provide everyone with a bit of a database to find out if a trader was honest, shipped on time, etc.

This is not a forum for bashing for fighting. If you have been ripped off in a trade, simply post the facts to the situation and move on. Your post is a warning to others - not a call to fight.

This forum is also in place to provide praise to users who are fair in their trades, courteous, and helpful during the deal. If you've had a good trading experience, please give everyone a heads up! The more successful trades the better.

Rules for posting about Vendors:

This forum was also put in place to provide an area to give feedback about experiences with businesses catering to the hobby. Please share your experiences whether good or bad if you wish to do so, but please STICK TO THE FACTS.

If you are posting a complaint, do not just bash the business. Simply post the FACTS and let the members decide. Also be understanding that every company will make mistakes, and if the issue is rectified, please post a response telling us so."

A few people are always going to get out of hand with or without vendor reviews but for the most part i think with rules things would be ok, and allow for better constructive comments for both vendors and buyers. Which in turn will make the world a better place FULL OF LOVE, peace and knowledge :)

Maybe I just have too much faith in people?

[StirCrazy]

Ok Kids, why do I have to come on from 1/2 way around the world to tell you all to stop being silly :mrgreen: Vender ratings never work as the boards are to scared they will be sued if anything bad is posted about them.

Now if we can get over this it is a good idea, but it stinks to have it anonomous.. thats just a cop out for some one who won't stand by there words.

If I am going to make a post about so an so's store, I would like it to have a few options on a scale. like 1 to 5 one being "it sucks" and 5 being "I've found nervana" then have a few catagories, service, selection, knowlage, ect... and have the companies split into catagories, like hard ware, live stock, mail order, ect.. so you can easily compare apples to apples.

the way I see it if I do a review on a store, to make up a name we'll say Brads fish emporium, and service I felt he did a real good job so I give him a 4 "sorry Brad you ain't no nervana :mrgreen:", selection I thought sucked so I gave him a 2, and knowlage I felt he was average so I gave him a 3. why would I want my name to be hidden, I stand behind my words. this also give the vender the opertunity to privatly e-mail you and ask what you think he could have done to improve his image in your eyes. and if it is possable maybe he could fix it and change your opinion.

this leads me to the next point, have some way for the person who left the review to modify his votes, so if this are fixed and he is happy now he can make his opinion reflect this.

deleting them and restarting them every 6 months is no good either as it has no accoutability. if they stay there the vendors will be encouraged to do more to "fix" there immage.

Now I know Christy loves polls, but I don't know if it is possable to do what I have said but I am sure if it is she would know how:mrgreen: you can thank me later Christy.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Maybe I just have too much faith in people?

Yup, we're just not interested in doing any of that. We like it now :) Well, we don't even like it now, we don't want ANY reviews, but it's a battle trying to control the threads anyway, so we've provided some basis function in our "Satisfaction Survey". It's not a review, it's not a rating, just a friendly survey to help everyone, online and retail shoppers alike, get an idea of other's experiences.

Really, thanks for all the ideas, but we're good.

[Aquattro]

"sorry Brad you ain't no nervana
Steve

you're banned. Go away. You're buying the pizza, by the way...:)

oh, and my money says Christy kills you :)

[StirCrazy]

Oh, I almost forgot, just don't put one up for IceCap, I don't have enought time anymore to express my opinions about the product or the owner...:mrgreen:

Steve

[JDigital]

I like the new setup for the sponsoring vendors... how come we can't make it public for the non-sponsors?:smile:

[StirCrazy]

you're banned. Go away. You're buying the pizza, by the way...:)

oh, and my money says Christy kills you :)

bah, she can't find me right now, we don't exhist :wink:

[Aquattro]

I like the new setup for the sponsoring vendors... how come we can't make it public for the non-sponsors?:smile:

Because they won't view it anyway, and we're just trying to give an overview of satisfaction. Staff will monitor the voting for "repeat customers"

[superduperwesman]

Ok Kids, why do I have to come on from 1/2 way around the world to tell you all to stop being silly :mrgreen: Vender ratings never work as the boards are to scared they will be sued if anything bad is posted about them.

Now if we can get over this it is a good idea, but it stinks to have it anonomous.. thats just a cop out for some one who won't stand by there words.

If I am going to make a post about so an so's store, I would like it to have a few options on a scale. like 1 to 5 one being "it sucks" and 5 being "I've found nervana" then have a few catagories, service, selection, knowlage, ect... and have the companies split into catagories, like hard ware, live stock, mail order, ect.. so you can easily compare apples to apples.

the way I see it if I do a review on a store, to make up a name we'll say Brads fish emporium, and service I felt he did a real good job so I give him a 4 "sorry Brad you ain't no nervana :mrgreen:", selection I thought sucked so I gave him a 2, and knowlage I felt he was average so I gave him a 3. why would I want my name to be hidden, I stand behind my words. this also give the vender the opertunity to privatly e-mail you and ask what you think he could have done to improve his image in your eyes. and if it is possable maybe he could fix it and change your opinion.

this leads me to the next point, have some way for the person who left the review to modify his votes, so if this are fixed and he is happy now he can make his opinion reflect this.

deleting them and restarting them every 6 months is no good either as it has no accoutability. if they stay there the vendors will be encouraged to do more to "fix" there immage.

Now I know Christy loves polls, but I don't know if it is possable to do what I have said but I am sure if it is she would know how:mrgreen: you can thank me later Christy.

Steve

I think resetting them is a good idea. Look at Big Als Calgary the place has hardly been open. All the tanks are not even full yet and people are leaving reviews.. reviews that wont be representative for very long.

[Aquattro]

Resetting will be done multiple times per year

[fishoholic]

WOW! I finally got to the end :lol: Thanks for all the laughs and thanks to the mods for being the wonderful people you are and putting up with us! :mrgreen:

On a personal note I like the polls, easy way for me to see what type of service I might get from that store.

[fishoholic]

question:I am not sure I really understand what "neutral" votes are supposed to mean?? Are they saying they are indifferent and don't have an opinion? Sorry I guess since I almost always have an opinion and more than often voice it I just don't get that option.:question::lol:

For me I voted places "neutral" when I thought the store was ok, meaning not great but not bad either. For example the one store I rated neutral has a good selction of fish but about 1/4 of them aren't very healthy, their frozen food selection is great and they have the best prices for frozen food in town, their tanks are decently priced however their skimmers and lights are way over priced. So for me a neutral vote seemed right.

Hope that helped.

[christyf5]

For me, I suppose "neutral" would be that I could take it or leave it. The store was hit or miss. I guess if sometimes you're satisfied and sometines you're unsatisfied you'd have to vote somewhere in the middle?

[superduperwesman]

For me I voted places "neutral" when I thought the store was ok, meaning not great but not bad either. For example the one store I rated neutral has a good selction of fish but about 1/4 of them aren't very healthy, their frozen food selection is great and they have the best prices for frozen food in town, their tanks are decently priced however their skimmers and lights are way over priced. So for me a neutral vote seemed right.

Hope that helped.

Wow! Is it just me or was that way more useful to myself and the vendor than a simple "neutral"... just saying

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/deadhorse.gif

[muck]

I thought you were going to be busier today Wes.. :razz::razz:

[fencer]

neutral = no opinion?

[JDigital]

Wow! Is it just me or was that way more useful to myself and the vendor than a simple "neutral"... just saying

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/deadhorse.gif

What if the vendor doesn't like the person saying that the skimmers and lighting are way overpriced... Then we are back to square one... :confused:

[fishoholic]

What if the vendor doesn't like the person saying that the skimmers and lighting are way overpriced... Then we are back to square one... :confused:

FYI the store I was refering to is not a canreef sponser.

You are right though, too much information can cause problems especially when it's negitive.

[superduperwesman]

What if the vendor doesn't like the person saying that the skimmers and lighting are way overpriced... Then we are back to square one... :confused:

I guess I assumed they want to know something like that... and that as long as things are facts that they have the control to change I don't know how they can blame anyone but themselves.

If they care so much about people stating facts they should change it.

The truth should never fear investigation

Anyone who cares enough to do research (ie view the poll) is gonna do enough to know the item is cheaper somewhere else anyway.

I walk into a store and tell them stuff is cheaper else where... they match it or tell me to go else where... same deal applies here. If vendors care they'll match it if not they must not mind the loss in business or make up for it in customer service... or hope people will just buy it because they are in for the cheaper fish, don't wanna make another trip, or whatever... thats just business in general.

Some people have no problem paying more if it supports local business.

Fact: It was raining the other day and I hated it but I can't change that so I can be mad about it.. but I guess I just don't understand how you can be mad about something you can change?

What if a vendor is mad about a "neutral"... are we still back to square one? Just because someone might get mad doesn't mean you toss the idea or should toss the polls too because guess what... someone "might" be mad.

You can't judge something by it's abuse

I just think they would be happier if things were qualified.

Generally when things are obscure people think the worst.

"You are not gonna believe what I heard about...?" They're not thinking something nice :).. alot of times they're thinking worse than it actually is.

Just some thoughts

[superduperwesman]

I thought you were going to be busier today Wes.. :razz::razz:

Yeah me too.

The vendors I need to get in touch with are on holiday or something? How do you build a pipeline without being able to order the pipe?

[Aquattro]

Wow! Is it just me or was that way more useful to myself and the vendor than a simple "neutral"... just saying

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/deadhorse.gif

never gonna happen, give it up

[Aquattro]

Just some thoughts

you think too much. Get back to work.

[superduperwesman]

never gonna happen, give it up

ahah I have a very strong feeling it wont...

I don't even know why I care I only voted on 4 vendors.

I guess I just see strong logic for the one side and I like to share... or maybe I want to start a company an sell frags from my 2.5 gallon and I want people to be able to post about how great those frags are :neutral:

[superduperwesman]

you think too much. Get back to work.

I get paid to think... but my brain is a little tired today

Ok ok seriously... this is me going back to work

Wes out

[troni]

?

[Aquattro]

?

?? :)

[muck]

??? :surprise:

[Aquattro]

??? :surprise:

huh????
?

[fishoholic]

???????? (just cause) lol

[parkinsn]

One more for good measure.

?

[Aquattro]

Can you repeat the question???

[parkinsn]

Can you repeat the question???

I will do it for you. Please see below. :razz:

?

[Aquattro]

Thanks for clearing that up. I've thought about it, and it's a definite maybe.

[parkinsn]

I would have though no for sure, but thats why you're a mod and I'm not.

[Aquattro]

I would have though no for sure, but thats why you're a mod and I'm not.

I was going to say no, but I'm trying to be unpredictable :)

[reefwars]

I was going to say no, but I'm trying to be unpredictable :)



i didnt see that coming:P

[reefwars]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????????/
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????



:P

[Aquattro]

i didnt see that coming:P

See??

[parkinsn]

See??

Sea? or C?

I'm confused?

[reefwars]

Sea? or C?

I'm confused?


???

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

WoW by only reading the last couple pages I was left with a loss of 40 seconds that will never get back and I feel funny in a way like http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/question-mark.jpg

[christyf5]

yeah I should probably fix that, haven't had time lately

[Aquattro]

yeah I should probably fix that, haven't had time lately

?

[christyf5]

well its a sponsoring vendor forum and half of them aren't there to rate...??

[christyf5]

I mean, I'm assuming the original question mark was because they were wondering where it was, I looked and there it is, then noticed it needed some modification. I'll try to get to it tonight :biggrin:

[paddyob]

Its a public poll.

Ever consider making it private. Might get more votes... honest votes.

[Blue World Aquariums]

Its a public poll.

Ever consider making it private. Might get more votes... honest votes.
Competitive sabotage, vendors boosting their own ratings, disgruntled customers creating multiple accounts to influence ratings... just to name a few scenarios we'd probably see with private voting.

[Aquattro]

Competitive sabotage, vendors boosting their own ratings, disgruntled customers creating multiple accounts to influence ratings... just to name a few scenarios we'd probably see with private voting.

Correct.

[The Grizz]

Don't see why we need vendor rating at all, we all like or dislike different shops & vendors because we all have different opinions.

[fishytime]

Don't see why we need vendor rating at all, we all like different shops & vendors because where all different.

no.....it's just you that's different Greg:razz::mrgreen:

[The Grizz]

no.....it's just you that's different Greg:razz::mrgreen:

Your the wacko that is moving to Edmonton of all places :razz:

Besides I'm different in a good way not a short bus way, like a few others around here

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

Competitive sabotage, vendors boosting their own ratings, disgruntled customers creating multiple accounts to influence ratings... just to name a few scenarios we'd probably see with private voting.

I will have to agree with you :thumb:

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

Oh Yeh,I would like to see me http://caco3reef.com/ (http://caco3reef.com/)on there to :biggrin: Cheers

[troni]

Your the wacko that is moving to Edmonton of all places :razz:

whoa...lets not go there.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt5DuqBCKUzpD98jYhIBMNIpyKXRJ3u xuezJvCnvBsLX4k2v9JVA

[ensquire]

whoa...lets not go there.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt5DuqBCKUzpD98jYhIBMNIpyKXRJ3u xuezJvCnvBsLX4k2v9JVA


:high5:
True DAT ....

[fishoholic]

Your the wacko that is moving to Edmonton of all places :razz:


Yes that's because he's smart not a wacko :mrgreen:

whoa...lets not go there.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt5DuqBCKUzpD98jYhIBMNIpyKXRJ3u xuezJvCnvBsLX4k2v9JVA

AWESOME!!!!!!! :thumb:

[Aquattro]

What the hell is this thread about???

[reefwars]

What the hell is this thread about???



oh man too funny i just was about to post that lol :)

i honestly thought this was the random thought thread:P

[techdetects]

Great job, I was doing a google search and your site came up for homes for sale in Altamonte Springs, FL but anyway, I have enjoyed reading it, keep it up!

[houlisam87]

What are you guys talking about actually
The best knowlegable retailer in Canada is Wai Aquarium in Calgary... hands down
right Danny ?