Herbie Overflow

[mseepman]

Could some of you that have Herbie overflows take a pic of your plumbing under the tank. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing but it wouldn't hurt to see how you've set up your gate valve, etc. In searching on the forum, everyone seems to take pics of the overflow side of it only.

Thanks.

[TJSlayer]

Here is what I did when I built mine....

Follow through the thread not too big....

http://saskreef.ca/forums/showthread.php?threadid=5263

Works very well pretty much silent.....

Cheers
Todd

[LeeR]

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k329/LeeRoz_2008/DSC_0016.jpg

1/2" return with check valve in the back, main 1" drain on the right with true union ball valve and back up 1" drain on the left with true union.

[JDigital]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/JDigital/54G%20Reef%20Tank/moreplumbing2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/JDigital/54G%20Reef%20Tank/sumpplumbed.jpg
Blue tube you can see, is my emergency drain, ABOVE the water line, so you can hear it... the lines coming off the gate valve are the main drain, one into the skimmer section, and one into the fuge.

[fishytime]

Heres mine. Dual corner/dual Herbies. I used flex to try and minimize flow restrictions due to elbows and 45s. And its a 4' sump under a 6' tank

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/fishytime/IMGP1687.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/fishytime/IMGP1685.jpg
Skimmer side
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/fishytime/IMGP1713.jpg
Fuge side
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/fishytime/IMGP1710.jpg
Return in the middle
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/fishytime/IMGP1708.jpg

[mseepman]

Thanks you everyone for the shots so far. This is what I thought it would look like but better to ask now rather than get it wrong and have to fix.

[jvision]

I think I've got mine set up fine, but is there a way to Set-it-and-forget-it? I keep having to fiddle with the ball valve to keep the level up or down in my sump. The return end of the sump is about 12gal, but the levels fluctuate as much as 4-5" during the day.

[mark]

Does the display stay constant?

Easier to tune btw with a gate valve.

[untamed]

I think I've got mine set up fine, but is there a way to Set-it-and-forget-it? I keep having to fiddle with the ball valve to keep the level up or down in my sump. The return end of the sump is about 12gal, but the levels fluctuate as much as 4-5" during the day.

They do tend to be fiddly...and I agree with whomever said that gate valves work better. Ball valves are better used for on/off applications. I frequently walk by and give one of the herbie gate valves a 1/32 or less rotation turn.

However...Are you saying that your sump is fluctuating 4-5" during the day? If that is the case, where do you think that 4"-5" of water is going? That would likely mess up your evaporative replacement system.

[brizzo]

Would it be best to install your gate valve at the lowest point you can? (lowest practical point) ... More pressure/volume up to the valve ??

[fishytime]

I think I've got mine set up fine, but is there a way to Set-it-and-forget-it? I keep having to fiddle with the ball valve to keep the level up or down in my sump. The return end of the sump is about 12gal, but the levels fluctuate as much as 4-5" during the day.

Replace the ball valve with a gate. If you are seeing that much fluctuation I am assuming that it is due to the rising and falling level in the overflow caused by the inaccurate adjustment of the ball valve. Either that or you are having some serious evaporation happening. Gate valves are minutely adjustable and allow for the fine tuning required to maintain the proper water level in the overflow.

Doug.

[fishytime]

Would it be best to install your gate valve at the lowest point you can? (lowest practical point) ... More pressure/volume up to the valve ??

The gate valve placement doesnt matter. The gate is used to limit the flow out of the display to the point that the water level inside the overflow box is high enough not to make any noise falling but low enough not to go down the emergency drain.

[mseepman]

Yeah...therein lies my mistake...I didn't figure out the height thing properly...now the plumbing is "permanent" at least until I decide to empty the tank to fix it. I don't get much noise...less than my regular overflow...but still not completely silent because of my calculation error.

[jvision]

OK, so my problem is the ball-valve - I'll change it to a gate valve. Do they make 1.5" gate valves?
The fluctuation in my sump happens because the ball valve is either closed too much or open too much, and the pump either pumps out faster than it gets to the sump, or the sump fills faster than it can pump out.

[untamed]

Yes, they make 1.5" gate valves. They aren't too difficult to find.

Your explanation for the sump water level doesn't make sense, though. Is the water from the tank falling into an overflow box? Basically, the amount water that you pump INTO the display tank ALWAYS equals the amount that falls out. It just does.

If you are pumping 400gph into the display tank...and only getting 300gph back into the sump...your display tank would be overflowing!

The key to a Herbie is the fact that a given pipe size will actually handle a variable maximum amount dependent on the water pressure behind it. So if you dial back your Herbie valve, the water in your overflow box should start to rise....but it won't rise forever...as the water behind the valve rises, more pressure is exerted which forces more water down the pipe. This hits equilibrium and the water height behind the valve stays constant.

[fishytime]

OK, so my problem is the ball-valve - I'll change it to a gate valve. Do they make 1.5" gate valves?
The fluctuation in my sump happens because the ball valve is either closed too much or open too much, and the pump either pumps out faster than it gets to the sump, or the sump fills faster than it can pump out.

Could you post pics of you overflow and plumbing? Sorry mseepman if we are taking over your thread, but this will be a good read for peeps wanting to do a herbie style overflow. Properly set up a herbie should be silent and fail safe.

Doug.

[mseepman]

No worries...I thought I was so smart doing a herbie...yet I still made mistakes that have made it less than a "true" herbie.

[jvision]

I believe the problem was with the fact that I didn't have a stand pipe on the Herbie. I stuck one in the drain and it's been steady since.

[untamed]

I believe the problem was with the fact that I didn't have a stand pipe on the Herbie. I stuck one in the drain and it's been steady since.

You really should post a photo of what you've got there... It is necessary to have a standpipe on the emergency overflow drain, but not in the drain that actually gets used. (the one with the valve on it).

I'm curious to see what you've done there.

[gerrygab]

I have a 90 gallon with dual corner overflows. One is a 2" the other is a 1.5", can use those in a Herbie style setup? Maybe if I used the 1.5" for the main adjustable drain and the other side for the emergecy overflow. The thing I cant see working would be that both sides would have water overflowing through the skimmer holes.
Also, how would I incorperate a sock filter in the sump?

Gerry

[untamed]

I have a 90 gallon with dual corner overflows. One is a 2" the other is a 1.5", can use those in a Herbie style setup? Maybe if I used the 1.5" for the main adjustable drain and the other side for the emergecy overflow. The thing I cant see working would be that both sides would have water overflowing through the skimmer holes.
Also, how would I incorperate a sock filter in the sump?

Gerry

That could mostly work. You would lose the surface skimming action from the 2" box.

You put a standpipe on the 2", emergency, overflow. Make it just, just higher than the operating water level in your display tank. That box should then fill right up to tank level.

Then put a gate valve on the 1.5" overflow and dial it back until you have a stable water level in that overflow box. (don't put a standpipe on this drain).

As you should have 100% of the flow going through the 1.5" gate valve'd drain, you can have that water drop through a filter sock if you like. Have this pipe exit below the surface of the sump. Your filter sock would therefore be submerged as well.

Of course, once you have all that running...try shutting off the gate valve and see what happens! All the water should immediately begin to fall down the 2" emergency which should create enough noise to alert you that the system needs attention.

[jvision]

You really should post a photo of what you've got there... It is necessary to have a standpipe on the emergency overflow drain, but not in the drain that actually gets used. (the one with the valve on it).

I'm curious to see what you've done there.

I'll get a pic later in the week. I'm just home for a day before heading back out of town...

[apex82]

Bringing back an old thread... I cant find a PVC gate anywhere on the island. Tried everything... anyone know where I can get one for the herbie?
Thanks