View Full Version : not happy with vendor
Just looking for suggestions.
I placed an order for some coral from a canreef vendor. Box was delivery by fedex the next morning as indicated from vendor. The box arrived soaking wet. I quickly called vendor before cutting the fedex guy loose as I did not want to accept the package. The vendor said quote "just accept the package and anything that is DOA I will replace " I quickly opened the box to find 5 out of 8 bags with corals completely empty of water. The bags were not damaged. ALL the water leaked out of the bags VIA the knott!!!! I could not believe that someone would have really thought that this would have held any water:confused:
I quickly placed corals in a bucket of tank water as I had no water from the bags to slowly climatize them properly. When I opened the first bag the smell was so bad I had to do this out side. And the temprature of the items in the box was really high. Anyways most things died. A few survivors but just hanging in. Sent vendor pic's. Said everything looked alive:surprise: There was nothing he could do. Anyways I'm out a few hundred dollars and the worst part is these poor corals died because someone did not know or care about packing them.
Im out a few hundred dollars. Any suggestions? Please
Aquattro
08-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Did you pay by credit card? Have them reverse charges if you can. Also, expect to receive lots of PMs so you can relate your story with all the particulars.
Zoaelite
08-08-2008, 09:33 PM
I believe your best bet at this point is to continue with the vendor, trying to come to a solution. If your very displeased and believe that you shouldn't have to pay for any of it then technically you could contact PayPal or your credit card company and see if they can reverse the charge (of course with this time is of the essence).
Levi
Seems they haven't changed then.. :sad:
Borderjumper
08-08-2008, 09:50 PM
Seems they haven't changed then.. :sad:
I was hoping their packaging had gotten better, I guess it hasnt. Mine arrived in a soaked unlined cardboard box, they were packed in cheap ziplock baggies. What wasnt dead didnt even resemble the pictures that had been posted. I was very dissapointed.
Aquattro
08-08-2008, 09:53 PM
Why is it that a company thats been around a long time and ships frags a lot, can't spend the extra money on elastics?
I also forgot to add. The moon coral was coverd in GHA:sad:
Zoaelite
08-08-2008, 10:13 PM
Why is it that a company thats been around a long time and ships frags a lot, can't spend the extra money on elastics?
Some times companys focus a little to much on profit and then the customers suffer, it sounds like theres kind of a general dislike for this vendor though so in reality are they not just shooting themselves in the foot?
Levi
michika
08-08-2008, 10:22 PM
I also forgot to add. The moon coral was coverd in GHA:sad:
Thats just gross!
Its too bad that this particular vendor can't seem to get up to par with some of the other fantastic vendors we have. It only helps us more as a hobby when we have more options.
Holly Cow Guys,
I have over 30pms and everyone is saying the same thing. I cant believe this has happened to so many people here from the same vendor.
howdy20012002
08-08-2008, 11:03 PM
Can we not stop allowing this vendor to be a vendor?
I personally have no idea who it is you are talking about and would like to know.
In alot of people's mind (mine included) I am sure that ordering from a vendor here means that you can get what you expected.
if there is a vendor who continually has problems, do we really need to get money from this person to support this board.
if money is an issue. I know personally that I would rather pay a monthly or annual dues instead of allowing vendors to continually profit from unsuspecting customers.
just my 2 cents worth.
Neal
Oceanic
08-08-2008, 11:05 PM
Can we not stop allowing this vendor to be a vendor?
I personally have no idea who it is you are talking about and would like to know.
In alot of people's mind (mine included) I am sure that being ordering from a vendor here means that you can get what you expected.
if there is a vendor who continually has problems, do we realy need to get money from this person to support this board.
if money is an issue. I know personally that I would rather pay a monthly or annual dues instead of allowing vendors to continually profit from unsuspecting customers.
just my 2 cents worth.
Neal
Strongly agree!
Aquattro
08-08-2008, 11:07 PM
Neal, we are currently discussing options.
Until then though, a vendor on this board does not gaurantee quality solely by membership.
Realistically, before anyone sends money to any company for anything, when you haven't done business with the before, they should make some inquiries first.
I have posted that should you want to deal with Vendor X, post asking for PMs relating experiences. In this case, this could have been avoided.
Zoaelite
08-08-2008, 11:08 PM
Strongly agree!
I third this idea, in reality can this be done though I guess is the question?
Levi
Aquattro
08-08-2008, 11:11 PM
I third this idea, in reality can this be done though I guess is the question?
Levi
My post above stated we were discussing options....
Zoaelite
08-08-2008, 11:24 PM
My post above stated we were discussing options....
Didn't see your post as I was writing mine at the same time as you were writing yours, thanks for the answer though! (Feel free to edit my post) :lol: (and yes that was a good hearted inside joke using sarcasm).
Levi
Aquattro
08-08-2008, 11:25 PM
I'll allow it :)
fishytime
08-08-2008, 11:56 PM
Maybe if the vender in question wasn't paying " vender dues" they could afford some elastics.
ShrimSkin
08-09-2008, 04:31 AM
I had the a terrible exp with this vendor as well, it doesn't help living on the island, since the couriers really could care less about the package. But the first time pretty much the entire $300+ order was dead. I was told any DOA would be replaced, so I wentahead with the replacements. this time about half was DOA and two of the frags from the lot that made it where not what I ordered. They were switched out without me being notified. The packaging was a joke and no heat packes were included in the first shipment (early spring). And don't even get me started on the pictures vs. the actual frags. Not even close.
I chose to take my business elsewhere, but I do agree this vendor prolly doesn't belong on the site.
Ephraim
08-09-2008, 04:51 AM
This reflects poorly on all vendors on this site. To know that the moderators do not put as much thought as the members of this site wish to see is disconcerting. Yes, these vendors are sponsers, they pay to have thier wares advertised on this site. But as a member of this site, I would expect the moderation team to take care with selecting vendors. When I see a banner run at the top of a Canreef page, I would think that this would be a reputable vendor. I now know to take the banners that run at the top of this page with a grain of salt. With the rate that this forum charges for sponsership(compared to what other canadian forums ask for) one would think that it would be quite affordable to pass on the occasional sponsership to ensure reputable vendors.
But I guess it's buyer beware. Just becuase Canreef is willing to take thier money, doesn't mean that the vendor is trustworthy.
ottoman
08-09-2008, 04:54 AM
Can someone tell me, as beginner, who this vendor is? So that there will no future disappointment when ordering. Thanks.
i was planning on doing a frag order next week from one of the vendors on this site, but now I am a little hesitant. Would someone please pm me the name of this vendor so I do not order from them.
Thanks
ps. I wholeheartly agree with Ephraim, being a sponsor should mean something, I thought Icould trust the sponsers on this site, but now I am not so sure.
marie
08-09-2008, 05:27 AM
Don't be too quick to pick on the moderators for letting "bad vendors" advertise here, there are always 2 sides to every story and who wants to be judge and jury to decide which side is right.
I am also pretty sure you could find someone to say something bad about every vendor on this site, it doesn't necessarily mean they are a bad vendor.
Its up to us to research before buying, after all we are (for the most part) all grown up and shouldn't need someone else to look after us.
noirsphynx
08-09-2008, 05:30 AM
I would appreciate a PM to know who this vendor is as well. I have a newly set up 90g that I will be looking to stock and WAS going to go through some vendors on this site but I want to be sure that I don't get a bad deal as well.
Thanks
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 06:17 AM
Don't be too quick to pick on the moderators for letting "bad vendors" advertise here, there are always 2 sides to every story and who wants to be judge and jury to decide which side is right.
I am also pretty sure you could find someone to say something bad about every vendor on this site, it doesn't necessarily mean they are a bad vendor.
Its up to us to research before buying, after all we are (for the most part) all grown up and shouldn't need someone else to look after us.
Thanks Marie.
Xenia
08-09-2008, 07:46 AM
Well, I did my research before I shopped and searched the whole forum for people's experiences with that particular vendor.
Of course it doesn't help if you find positive reviews only, because negative comments aren't allowed/were deleted. It distorts the whole picture.
In my opinion telling people who got burned that they should "research before they buy" only adds insult to injury.
Snappy
08-09-2008, 08:21 AM
This reflects poorly on all vendors on this site. ............................................. Just becuase Canreef is willing to take thier money, doesn't mean that the vendor is trustworthy.
Not all vendors are created equal and should not be painted with the same brush. I for one work very hard to build customer confidence & earn repeat business. :idea: Don't be afraid to inquire of other members about their experiences with who you're thinking of buying something from.
Ephraim
08-09-2008, 10:21 AM
Yes, one must do research before dealing with any online vendor. Sponsership of hobby forums does not give any assurance of quality. That is an unfortunate fact that many people new to the hobby may not realize.
I for one will not be dealing with Canreef sponsers any more until there is some assurance of quality from the person/people taking the payout for the banners.
ShrimSkin
08-09-2008, 01:11 PM
I have to agree, all the excuses in the workd could be made, but the fact is that the people that use this site are being taken advantage of by a vendor. A vendor who REFUSES to give refunds and will only give you credit for product that arrives dead anyway. I was not aware of negative comments being deleted. That is BS, what kind of business owner doesn't want negative comments? Now it makes a lot of sense why I couldn't find any.
I guess the questions is who is more valuable to Canreef, the memebers or the bad sponsors. It should be posted publicly who the vendor is, there are other sponsors that are great and shouldn't have to deal with this.
fishytime
08-09-2008, 02:05 PM
So now as an employee of a shop that is a vendor here, I can expect to not get business from some canreefers because of an association with canreef? There is something soooooooo not right about this.I find it sad that anyone with a credit card # can become a vendor here? These forums are here for the hobbyest, not the vendors. This site is here to help people, not steer them towards a bad experience.
rocketlily
08-09-2008, 02:21 PM
I have been following this thread with interest and would like to share, as a person who prefers to shop online. I don't like to spend alot of time driving around. I am in no way affiliated with any vendors and I have in the past purchased from Canreef sponsors. I spend the time to check out posts regarding them and PM other members who have bought from them. If I cannot find any posts about them, I create a thread and ask for opinions.
I regularly purchase from a supplier and when checking them out was told I would have a couple of issues. I do have these issues, and continue to deal with him because I can deal with the issues. In reading posts regarding him, I got what I expected. I have purchased twice in the last two months with another supplier and all my expectations have been met (if not exceeded) by him. In reading posts regarding him, once again, I got what I expected. I purchased from a major supplier in the US and the replies I received warned me about major Customs charges. Once again, I got what I was warned about.
I am currently dealing with another sponsor of Canreef regarding a major purchase. I have done my research, checked references and I am very confident that next month, I shall be posting a picture of my purchase, along with a big Thank You.
It is up to all of us to check thoroughly the places we spend our money. Would we walk into a dirty little shop with dirty tanks and hand over our money? Since you cannot be at the place you are spending your money when dealing online, let the other members be your eyes. I am sure that you will find that the members of Canreef can be brutally honest with you.
Delphinus
08-09-2008, 02:24 PM
First of all, for those who seem to be unhappy with the board, perhaps instead of issuing ultimatums and grandstanding, you could consider running your own board.
It has already been stated that we are discussing what options we can implement for the future. Please feel free to offer constructive advice and suggestions, but please recognize that we can't implement all of them.
As staff here I feel my shins kicked slightly after reading some of these comments. I'll say this: if the thinly veiled attacks of the staff continue, then the response from the staff will be appropriate. Constructive criticism welcome, unconstructive criticism not.
marie
08-09-2008, 02:29 PM
...
I for one will not be dealing with Canreef sponsers any more until there is some assurance of quality from the person/people taking the payout for the banners.
Your kidding right? :lol:
superduperwesman
08-09-2008, 02:48 PM
First of all, for those who seem to be unhappy with the board, perhaps instead of issuing ultimatums and grandstanding, you could consider running your own board.
It has already been stated that we are discussing what options we can implement for the future. Please feel free to offer constructive advice and suggestions, but please recognize that we can't implement all of them.
As staff here I feel my shins kicked slightly after reading some of these comments. I'll say this: if the thinly veiled attacks of the staff continue, then the response from the staff will be appropriate. Constructive criticism welcome, unconstructive criticism not.
I agree we must offer constructive criticism. Moderation of this site would not be an easy job.
I guess my only feelings on this topic are:
Truth never fears investigation ie if you are a quality vendor most will have nothing bad to say about you so have all the threads you want, and if they do go bad good vendors want to know so they can fix it. Like ebay there will always be a few yoyo's who leave bad feedback but those people are seen for what they are when standing next to everyone else's opinions.
I've seen posts bashing vendors and others are quick to the rescue because the vendor is a good one. That being said I think "vedor reviews" should not be so quickly moderated. The truth will come out, and if its a bad truth that gets deleted researching that vendor quickly become difficult.
I do know that I don't think the vendor fee should buy immunity, and if a vendor has a problem with posts about them not getting deleted they are probably not the kind of vendor we want on canreef.
marie
08-09-2008, 03:08 PM
...
I've seen posts bashing vendors and others are quick to the rescue because the vendor is a good one. That being said I think "vedor reviews" should not be so quickly moderated. The truth will come out, and if its a bad truth that gets deleted researching that vendor quickly become difficult.
.
All fine and dandy until someone threatens legal action. Are the members of the board ready to cough up money for the lawyers needed?
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 03:27 PM
I for one will not be dealing with Canreef sponsers any more until there is some assurance of quality from the person/people taking the payout for the banners.
Good for you. That has got to be the stupidest thing I've heard on here all month. What? Now we're the better business bureau? Oh, I guess you don't use yellow pages either? Or read newspapers? OMG, don't listen to the radio or watch TV, there might be untrustworthy advertisers.
Sheesh. I know. I'll call the vendors and ask them if they're stand-up guys? Hello? No, you're not, you suck? Oh, well then, you can't buy advertising space from us then. Thanks for being upfront about sucking.
Christ, I've had complaints about every vendor in town from somebody at some point. We'll kick them all off. Good plan.
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 03:31 PM
I do know that I don't think the vendor fee should buy immunity, and if a vendor has a problem with posts about them not getting deleted they are probably not the kind of vendor we want on canreef.
Just so you're aware, this is pretty much how the staff feel and are discussing options to add substance to this thought.
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 03:44 PM
I find it sad that anyone with a credit card # can become a vender here
you're right. Let's kick Snappy off the sponsor list, he's just some guy selling frags and who owns a credit card. Another wonderful comment.
sigh...
rocketlily
08-09-2008, 03:48 PM
Double Sigh... No Snappy!!! No we can't do that just because he has a credit card. Oh wait, let me check his references from other reefers.
Patrick1
08-09-2008, 03:48 PM
So rather then getting all bent out of shape, pointing fingers and saying "well until people do this or that". Your the buyer, you make the final decision. Not the people running the forum, not the people on the forum, not the vendor.
When I joined the forum I read the rules and had a choice to accept them or not be a member. Yeah sure kick out the banner ads and we can all share the cost of running this site.
Or my understanding of things there is no rule against posting "ANY ONE DEALING WITH VENDOR 'X' PLEASE PM ME"
Is it just me or does that not make more sence then beating the staff of the forum over the rules we all agreed to.
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 03:49 PM
Oh wait, let me check his references from other reefers.
What a concept!!
rocketlily
08-09-2008, 03:51 PM
"Or my understanding of things there is no rule against posting "ANY ONE DEALING WITH VENDOR 'X' PLEASE PM ME" "
Agreed, seems the simplest way to me.
michika
08-09-2008, 03:51 PM
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/Upload/ibtl/IBTL-Dog.jpg
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 03:52 PM
Sorry Catherine, no lock here. Good try though :)
michika
08-09-2008, 03:54 PM
Its been awhile...so I thought I might as well try.
Will the mods let us know what comes of your discussion about vendors?
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 03:57 PM
Its been awhile...so I thought I might as well try.
Will the mods let us know what comes of your discussion about vendors?
You can have a future IBTL credit.
Absolutely.
Monti-Man
08-09-2008, 04:04 PM
Have we all not had this discussion already at least 10 times about this issue?
And has it not all came out the same way. Act like an adult,form your own opinions and if others ask pm them about your experience?Because in all honesty if this vendor is still up and running full swing then apparently someone is happy with the service there.And no i have no idea who everyone is talking about. I have a general idea and if it is who i think it is then i did post a question on the board. Got a few mixed reviews and went ahead and got burnt. Oh we'll i am a gotta learn the hard way kinda guy. But i won't go there again and if someone asks i will send them a pm.But to turn this all around on the moderators is insane.Why is that such a hard concept? It is not the moderators job to ensure quality service from a vendor. Last time i checked it was the vendors job. So if you have a problem with a vendor take it up with the vendor.If you receive poor service you don't go back. Happens everyday at every other store,restaurant etc...in this world.
Just my 2 cents worth though i guess.
ShrimSkin
08-09-2008, 04:05 PM
I don't think the MODS are to blame for the actions of the vendor, and there isn't a business on the planet that hasn't had a complaint. I think it's fair to say that as a MOD you should weight the amount and type of complaints about vendors and make your decision on wether to pull their sponsorship. I'm sure you are not recieveing equal complaints about all the vendors, and even though it does sound silly to say peole won't buy form other Canreef sponsors because of this (I am not one) people can choose to spend their money as they wish. This is a great board, with pretty much no issues other than this the MODS do a great all around job and I'm sure they will take care of the currnet issue.
fishytime
08-09-2008, 04:12 PM
Vender x uses this forum to reach reefers all across Canada. If said vender can not or will not do the things necessary to ensure the survival of the livestock they are "pushing" then......
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 04:17 PM
Vender x uses this forum to reach reefers all across Canada. If said vender can not or will not do the things necessary to unsure the survival of the livestock they are "pushing" then......
Vendor "Y" uses the yellow pages to get people all across the city. Do you avoid yellow pages now? Didn't think so...
A bus I rode had an ad saying Lululemon pants will make my butt sexy; they lied. I'm never riding buses again, and you shouldn't either. Right? Nah, didn't think so....
Tom R
08-09-2008, 04:25 PM
This is a very difficult area of discussion.
This is a free membership Bulletin Board, because it is a free membership Bulletin Board it requires Sponsors to pay the bills, oh yes it costs money to maintain this Bulletin Board.
This Bulletin Board runs a fine line between its Membership and its Sponsors. Without its Sponsors there is no Bulletin Board. The Staff do not have the time or background to investigate any of the complaints that get lodged here. The Membership can quickly manifest a problem into something that would have any Sponsor questioning their sponsorship.
The Staff can not take sides and represent either the Member or the Sponsor, there are other avenues that the member should follow such as.
The BBB (Better Business Bureau) is an organization set up to help protect the buying public. They actually offer method of reconciliation between Retailers and Contractors and the Buying Public.
You can also set up a polls within this Bulletin Board to get an effective answer to:
Where do you shop?
Which of these products do you use?
Or you can set up a Bulletin Board without Sponsors. One that is supported only by Memberships only.
Tom R
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 04:29 PM
Tom, thank you. I think you've hit it on the head. We are looking at options for a poll, with a rating system. No comments are accepted, just a 1-5 rating. I know every vendor I've dealt with personally will hit a 4 or 5, and those that hit all 1's like the one in this thread may, we are willing and happy to see them advertise elsewhere.
SeaHorse_Fanatic
08-09-2008, 04:30 PM
Honestly, there are very few boards that run as smoothly or with as little controversy as Canreef. As a mod on another fish forum, I can attest to the fact that when things are going this well, its because of the hard work the mods & admin are putting in behind the scene to catch things before they get out of hand.
So instead of coming dowon on fellow hobbyists who VVOLUNTEER their time here to make Canreef our online reefing home, do as the others suggest and post a "Please PM me with reviews of X vendor."
I have tried, in the past, to warn fellow reefers if a particular vendor was not a good LFS to deal with through PMs. However, if nobody knows you're planning to do this, then nobody can tell you about good or bad experiences.
Just my $.02
Anthony
rocketlily
08-09-2008, 04:31 PM
Tom, thank you. I think you've hit it on the head. We are looking at options for a poll, with a rating system. No comments are accepted, just a 1-5 rating. I know every vendor I've dealt with personally will hit a 4 or 5, and those that hit all 1's like the one in this thread, we are willing and happy to see them advertise elsewhere.
I think this would be a wonderful addition to this site.
"Please PM me with reviews of X vendor."
This really does work.
I asked fellow members to pm me their frag vendor experiences & my inbox quickly filled with replies.
1 had amazing reviews all across the board.
1 had mostly good reviews.
1 had mostly bad reviews.
I chose accordingly & was very pleased with the result.
Plain & simple.
.
Zoaelite
08-09-2008, 04:46 PM
Good for you. That has got to be the stupidest thing I've heard on here all month. What? Now we're the better business bureau? Oh, I guess you don't use yellow pages either? Or read newspapers? OMG, don't listen to the radio or watch TV, there might be untrustworthy advertisers.
Sheesh. I know. I'll call the vendors and ask them if they're stand-up guys? Hello? No, you're not, you suck? Oh, well then, you can't buy advertising space from us then. Thanks for being upfront about sucking.
Christ, I've had complaints about every vendor in town from somebody at some point. We'll kick them all off. Good plan.
Constructive criticism is appreciated from the members of canreef also, no need to start a big flame war over an issue that in reality requires a final consensus of both staff and mods right? I have to agree with Brad though Ephraim, to say that your not going to shop with any of the vendors because of a single one (That I'm sure you know the identity of and if not shoot me a PM) is like saying "One store in Calgary treated me wrongly so I'm never shopping in Calgary again". All of the vendors are competitors not a giant team hell bent on bad service towards the canreef populace. If anything having more vendors creates competition and better service (As I have personally seen from MULTIPLE vendors here). As others have said to fix the problem the vendor "Immunity" idol has to be taken away or replaced with a better action plan.
Levi
Snappy
08-09-2008, 04:52 PM
Since I am not the sponsor in question that got this thread started I guess I should have just ignored it but I don't like how it's turned into an attack on the "mod squad" and lumping all vendors together in a negative manner. And for the record I'm not just some guy with a credit card #
I for one will not be dealing with Canreef sponsers any more until there is some assurance of quality from the person/people taking the payout for the banners.
That is your right but obviously not very well thought out.
It's irresponsible statements like this that are quickly typed in the heat of the moment that contribute to the reasons "bad reviews" are not allowed. There will sometimes be issues with what one purchases anywhere but some people tend to get carried away and would post negative comments about a vendor before they are given an opportunity to correct whatever the issue was. Should the vendors start posting bad customer experiences with the members as well or perhaps publish a list of known "tire kickers" who never follow up their promised purchases. The whole thing is just silly.
It should be posted publicly who the vendor is, there are other sponsors that are great and shouldn't have to deal with this.
I agree with this 100% if there are unresolved issues. Again that is on the assumption that the vendor was contacted and given the opportunity to make things right.
We are looking at options for a poll, with a rating system.
Great idea as long as when the "poll rating" idea is used it's not anonymous. There needs to be accountability from the members who post there in the same way it is expected from the vendors. If people have to give their name and others can see how they voted they are more likely to be honest.
As mentioned by several members PM'ing works very well and I endorse that as the best course of action to get your own vendor reviews.
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 04:56 PM
Great idea as long as when the "poll rating" idea is used it's not anonymous. There needs to be accountability from the members who post there in the same way it is expected from the vendors. If people have to give their name and others can see how they voted they are more likely to be honest.
As mentioned by several members PM'ing works very well and I endorse that as the best course of action to get your own vendor reviews.
Greg, I'm not sure we have that option, but we'll look into it. To my knowledge, at this time we can only internally audit who voted.
And thank you for your well tempered and professional thoughts on this issue.
To all those that have posted here, supporting the Canreef "staff", THANK-YOU.
To those that dont, {I still dont get it}, well I deleted my post from first thing this morning as I would have likely had to resign after posting it. My mind cant grasp, how members can run down and call staff members some of the names they get called, just because they offer their time freely to help run an aquarium board, for the hobby we all love.
If we posted a list of some of the names we have been called, you would be shocked. Well maybe not. As mentioned, some options are being discussed. But they need to be done so with the boards owner, who foots the bills and deals with our sponsers.
Thanks
Jason McK
08-09-2008, 05:17 PM
Having been on canreef for awhile. I can remember a time when Vendor rating type posts where able to live for a few days until they got stupid.
What I noticed was that the majority of people complaining about vendor never bothered to contact the vendor to seek some form of corrective action. They would simply spew off about what a crappy experience they had and they will never shop there again.
I always felt this was unfair to the store as there might have been a valid reason for the poor performance that day and compensation could resolve the issue.
I think people need to be mature about how they rate each vendor and ensure your rating is valid and not just emotional.
Jason
Aquattro
08-09-2008, 05:43 PM
I think people need to be mature about how they rate each vendor and ensure your rating is valid and not just emotional.
Jason
Thanks Jason. That is exactly the reason vendor ratings got pulled. While most of the posts remained mature and intelligent, there was always someone willing to ruin it for everyone by spewing pure stupidity. In a perfect world this wouldn't happen, but unfortunately, here, like everywhere, a few ruin it for all.
People who want to review businesses are free to create their own site for that. There are lots of places where you can post for free or create a website for free.
Examples:
http://groups.yahoo.com/
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/learn2/HowItWorks4_Free.html
Here are examples of people publishing their reviews.
http://askville.amazon.com/aquarium-store-websites/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=5341079
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/travel/Norfolk_VAS_III.html
http://www.theaquarians.net/ArticlesandWallpapers/exotic_aquarium_store_review.htm
Lance
08-09-2008, 06:15 PM
I live in a small town that has very limited SW shopping, so I depend almost entirely on out-of-town supply. I have PM'ed other members for information about various vendors and in every instance the responses were timely and accurate. In fact, when I first read this thread I PM'ed the thread starter and was given the information within minutes. Most of the members of Canreef seem to me to be very willing to help out fellow reefers. I have on several occasions been PM'ed by the moderators as well and been given good advice.
If members would use this practice more often there would not nearly be as many unfortunate incidents; and vendors who do not provide a decent service would soon have to change their ways or face reduced sales.
Seems simple enough to me.
fencer
08-09-2008, 06:47 PM
I think vendors should have their return policies clearly stated. As a consumer I would feel better and as a seller I think it would reduce complications for DOA issues.
I think vendors should have their return policies clearly stated. As a consumer I would feel better and as a seller I think it would reduce complications for DOA issues.
While I agree with you Wayne.. I also think its not hard to ask the vendor before you place an order what his or her stance on certain issues that you are concerned about are. :wink:
Veng68
08-09-2008, 07:22 PM
As a consumer we have to take responsibility for our own purchasing decisions....... "Caveat Emptor" ............. "Let the Buyer Beware"
Do your own research..... like others said........ post a thread asking for PM's on dealings with the vendor you want to buy from.
I know that I have PM'd other board members my own experiences and I have asked people I know on the board about there experiences with vendors I want to deal with (or other members with stuff to sell).
Some people ask for vendor rating threads........ the majority of the threads quickly degenerate into personal name calling and serve no constructive purpose......... which is why a majority of boards (not just reef related) do not allow vendor rating threads.
The mods have other things to worry about like spammers and keeping threads on topic, etc. It's a thankless job that can be time consuming. I think the mods on this board are doing an excellent job. Thanks to all the Staff!!! :)
Just my 0.02 on the matter.
Cheers,
Vic [veng68]
If the vendor has unethical business practices like the one I dealt with, they will just tell you what you want to hear before you place an order. I asked do you use a styrofoam box to ship. Then the stuff arrives in a wet cardboard box with styrofoam popcorn.:surprise:Then when something goes wrong they already have your money and tell you to pound sand. THe lesson I have learned is use this fourm to your advantage and ask members advice or opinions on the vendor you plan to use before hand. Looking at the 200 pms I have received I'm sure I would have gotten the idea on this vendor. My fault. :redface: I will still continue to use other online vendors, but not without doing my home work first.
And to everyone that has pm'd me on this thread, thanks for sharing your tips and ideas with me I really appreciate it.:biggrin:
which is why a majority of boards (not just reef related) do not allow vendor rating threads.
Exactly. Thanks for that Vic. Sometimes one would think the Canreef staff is a lone dictatorship and all the other boards let all this crap go on. Although there are some.
Underwater
08-09-2008, 07:56 PM
I agree with what Vic said. I know a couple of the mods and they really are trying to do the best possible job. With that, however, I do think there is a "responsibility" (if you will), we all have to help out others in our community.
I think (most of us) are mature enough to be able to give feedback on vendors without turning it into a mudslinging contest. Facts are facts-period...If there is a company that is taking advantage of our reefing community, why would we all want to ignore it? It's the elephant in the room and serves no one-including the company. I have been on the receiving end of a bad deals, and I have even had another who have felt like I gave them a bad deal. With both scenarios it was nice to be able to try to resolve the issue. Sometimes they can be resolved peacefully-and sometimes not. But, I wouldn't have known that there was even an issue had I not been told. And I would much rather try to remedy a situation-and maybe fail-than not to know about it at all and be known as the "cheater".
I know that the mods are in a difficult position-ethically and legally-but Canreef is a place we choose to turn to for information, advice, a place to vent, to help others, etc. We all have one thing in common, and that is our love for this hobby. I would think that is one of the main reasons Canreef was created...not so we could be preyed on by the unscrupulous with no warning. In all honesty, how many vendors would risk losing our community's business? One, two? Good riddance! It just allows a greater opportunity for the quality vendors to make more sales and allows us the opportunity to go into a transaction with our eyes open-not on blind faith.
I know this has been a touchy topic for quite a while, but I hope we can resolve this in a manner that serves all involved.
Take care.
~M
Der_Iron_Chef
08-09-2008, 08:21 PM
Wow, I go camping for one night and miss all the drama. *sigh*
While it's already been said a few times, I feel the need to reiterate my support for Canreef and its Moderators, who give freely of their time and energy to make this place run smoothly. I'm not sure how in the world any of them are responsible for a dead box of coral that arrived at someone's doorstep? That's the most obtuse line of "reasoning" I've heard all day (and I was just camping with four high-risk youth who define "obtuse" on an almost minute-to-minute basis).
I appreciate the message of the original poster: frustration, seeking advice/resolution, and warning others. That's fair; that's Canreef-ish. Although at times I've wished I could jump online and air my frustrations publically, I know it doesn't make Canreef a good place to be.
Let's continue to be grown up and pro-active. In the future, if I'm going to spend $300 online, I'll be sure to ask around first, as I'm sure will the original poster. As I'm sure will ever rational person who's followed this thread. I think that's the point....right?
Zoaelite
08-09-2008, 08:32 PM
If the vendor has unethical business practices like the one I dealt with, they will just tell you what you want to hear before you place an order. I asked do you use a styrofoam box to ship. Then the stuff arrives in a wet cardboard box with styrofoam popcorn.:surprise:Then when something goes wrong they already have your money and tell you to pound sand. THe lesson I have learned is use this fourm to your advantage and ask members advice or opinions on the vendor you plan to use before hand. Looking at the 200 pms I have received I'm sure I would have gotten the idea on this vendor. My fault. :redface: I will still continue to use other online vendors, but not without doing my home work first.
And to everyone that has pm'd me on this thread, thanks for sharing your tips and ideas with me I really appreciate it.:biggrin:
Thanks for the initial post I think a large amount of things that needed to be discussed between member and mod alike have been covered! Goes to show that even when this community is at each others throats were still here for each other.
Levi
marie
08-09-2008, 08:44 PM
Holy cow, this is already at 8 pages. Am I the only one around here that has to work on saturday? :lol:
Oceanic
08-09-2008, 09:27 PM
I am at work too! This has been some good reading! :lol:
ImprezaSTi
08-10-2008, 12:21 AM
I did not read through the whole 8 pages, skimmed through some posts, and read some posts.
As with other members, I do believe that canreef staff are not be blamed for this unfortunate event. Being a vendor is simply paying to advertise on this website, and that is all.
However IMO, since this is an open public forum, we should not need to use the "underground" PM system to find out the quality of any vendor. We should be able to read publically on the forum, what other people's experiences are of any local retailers and online vendors. Just my opinion.
Edit: can someone PM me which vendor(s) I should be avoiding? :lol:
kwirky
08-10-2008, 12:32 AM
it's reasons like this that customer service is SO much more important nowadays than advertising. Spending time and money on satisfying customers ON THE FIRST TRY yields far better returns than just throwing money at advertising because people are more connected than ever and WILL tell their friends about poor experiences.
Yes, the vendor could have a chance to correct the problem but if another vendor doesn't have to put out fires all the time than people will go there instead.
The bottom line is customers are more savvy than ever and in any service industry your business HAS to recognize that and provide what people want or else there WILL be ramifications. Long term ramifications.
The statistic is that if someone has poor experience at a store they're 50% likely to never shop there again. However, if a trusted friend tells them of a bad experience at a store the chance is 80% that they won't go there in the first place. Word of mouth is extremely powerful because of the internet and vendors must make sure they provide the best customer service experience possible on the first try. Putting out customer service fires is pointless if you stop the fires from happening in the first place.
Veng68
08-10-2008, 12:34 AM
That's the rub......... this is not a public forum......... it's a private forum.
I remember way back a LFS (not an advertiser) threatened to sue the board because of people making unfavourable comments about their business.
All the mods ask is that we don't make vendor rating threads because they just are not constructive. If you really want to know about a vendor...... ask for pm's or pm some of your friends who you trust on the board for their opinions.
Eventhough this is a private forum, the mods give us plenty of freedom and it a pretty good place to exchange idea.
Cheers,
Vic [veng68]
Canadian
08-10-2008, 12:43 AM
I agree with the concept that buyers need to take the responsibility to research a potential vendor fully on their own. PM is a good way to accomplish this.
However, I don't think it's unreasonable for a consumer to be frustrated given the policy that negative reviews are censored while positive ones are left - it clearly leaves a hugely skewed impression. Say for instance I move to Victoria from Seattle. I get on Google and search for something like "coral frag online vendors in Canada reviews" and some cached links to posts on Canreef come up. I read some positive reviews about numerous vendors and draw the conclusion that they're all great so I pick the one that has the prices I like only to discover that the particular vendor is atrocious and all negative reviews have been censored. I think this situation is very likely and if I was the victim I would certainly be miffed.
marie
08-10-2008, 01:12 AM
I agree with the concept that buyers need to take the responsibility to research a potential vendor fully on their own. PM is a good way to accomplish this.
However, I don't think it's unreasonable for a consumer to be frustrated given the policy that negative reviews are censored while positive ones are left - it clearly leaves a hugely skewed impression. Say for instance I move to Victoria from Seattle. I get on Google and search for something like "coral frag online vendors in Canada reviews" and some cached links to posts on Canreef come up. I read some positive reviews about numerous vendors and draw the conclusion that they're all great so I pick the one that has the prices I like only to discover that the particular vendor is atrocious and all negative reviews have been censored. I think this situation is very likely and if I was the victim I would certainly be miffed.
I don't know about everyone else but when I'm looking for a vendor and there are no reviews about them at all and others have rave reviews, to me thats the same as a bad review and therefore should be avoided
blaster
08-10-2008, 01:16 AM
This is getting boring
ImprezaSTi
08-10-2008, 01:36 AM
That's the rub......... this is not a public forum......... it's a private forum.
I remember way back a LFS (not an advertiser) threatened to sue the board because of people making unfavourable comments about their business.
All the mods ask is that we don't make vendor rating threads because they just are not constructive. If you really want to know about a vendor...... ask for pm's or pm some of your friends who you trust on the board for their opinions.
Eventhough this is a private forum, the mods give us plenty of freedom and it a pretty good place to exchange idea.
Cheers,
Vic [veng68]
There is nothing illegal about posting negative opinions on a forum. Even if any retailer or vendor seeks legal action against canreef, nothing will happen in the end. After all, we are in Canada and we do have the right of freedom of speech. I do understand that the owner of this board may not have the financial support or time to go to court, but IMO, it is the right thing to do.
Of course, what canreef decides to do, is their own choice. As other people have said, if you don't like this board go to another one or make your own.
However, I don't think it's unreasonable for a consumer to be frustrated given the policy that negative reviews are censored while positive ones are left - it clearly leaves a hugely skewed impression. Say for instance I move to Victoria from Seattle. I get on Google and search for something like "coral frag online vendors in Canada reviews" and some cached links to posts on Canreef come up. I read some positive reviews about numerous vendors and draw the conclusion that they're all great so I pick the one that has the prices I like only to discover that the particular vendor is atrocious and all negative reviews have been censored. I think this situation is very likely and if I was the victim I would certainly be miffed.
100% agree, I would be mad too if I were in that kind of situation.
Guys, the solution is very easy. Create your own vendor review forums. I've already shown how easy it is. Leave Canreef alone.
Veng68
08-10-2008, 02:29 AM
Sure it's not illegal to voice a negative opinion but if the boards rules say you can't then don't do it. In a way there is no such thing as free speech on Private boards. Follow the rules and your more then welcome to say what you want. Don't follow the rules and expect the post to be deleted.
As to fighting any legal action....... it's fine and dandy to say that unless you are the one that is having legal action taken against you. Even if your right........ the time and money used to fight litigation is such a hassle. It can also be very mentally draining (thank goodness we are not in the US).
Cheers,
Vic [veng68]
fkshiu
08-10-2008, 02:59 AM
This is getting boring
:)
Veng68
08-10-2008, 03:03 AM
Okie dokie......... getting boring......... so that is all I have to say on the subject.
Cheers,
Vic [veng68] :)
JDigital
08-10-2008, 03:50 AM
Holy cow, this is already at 8 pages. Am I the only one around here that has to work on saturday? :lol:
Nope, I am having to catch up on 6 pages of reading material.. lol
Aquattro
08-10-2008, 03:57 AM
I'll address one issue, because, well, I'm getting bored too. We ask that NO vendor reviews are posted, good or bad. We try to remain neutral. However, when a sponsor gives exellent service and Canreef members want to pay kudos, we tend to leave that alone.
We also do try and consider the members, and most of us don't like this policy anymore than you, but we don't have any good ways around it. When we zig, the members are mad. Zag, and the vendors are mad. So in the end, if we lose 4 members that are mad, we stay open. If we lose 3 vendors that are mad, well, we all go away. (numbers used as example only, I have no idea what we need to stay afloat.)
I first suggested the PM method, and it appears to work for the majority. I'm sorry if some people didn't catch on to this method before negative dealings, but it's the best we have right now.
We're looking at options, and if we can provide a service in this area AND keep almost everyone happy, we'll do it. If something is going to jeopordize the board, well, then we won't.
While everyone likes to think this is a great public forum, and they should be able to say and do what they want, it is in fact a private business, just like everything else. The mods' job here is to enforce such actions as to ensure that the business runs smoothly, most of the time. So while I'd personally love to name off every business that ever rooked me, it isn't in the interest of the company, and therefore I do what needs to be done in order to maintain the board.
Anyway, again, we've run the course of vendor reviews, I don't see any more point in discussing further.
Yes Catherine, you're IBTL :)
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