Local live stock…?

[fortheloveofcrabs]

Hello,

I purchased a wonderful Yellow Tang from a local retailer here in Edmonton six days ago.

Anyways, this Yellow Tang was doing great. Yesterday it was swimming around, looking sharp and eating. This morning I woke up and to my dismay he had passed away something during the night. I quickly removed the poor little guy and tested my water.

Everything checked out:

Temp 80
SG was 1.023
Ammonium was 0ppm
No2 was 5ppm
No3 was 0ppm
and the PH was 8.11

The fairy wrasse which I had purchased with the tang was and still is doing just fine.

I haven’t done a water change or added anything since adding the new fish.

He looks good (the tang) – no abrasions, no marks, nothing.

Anyways, I purchased a yellow head jaw fish from this same retailer about 6 months ago that only lasted a few days and again everything checked out. They wouldn’t help me out (which I can understand to a degree) and said that sometimes that sort of thing just happens (a fish just dies unexpectedly).

Yes, it can happen.

Well, the next fish I get from them dies again? Hmmm, now I’m suspicious – everything else in my tank is doing great – fish and corals – so why the sudden death. I called today and spoke to the assistant manager and he said that I should put the fish in the freezer and that he will call me back tomorrow.

I’ve purchased fish from other stores and have had pretty good success with them – yes, I’ve lost some fish, but the vast majority I still have. Five years and counting for some.

The “less than a week” mortality rate of the fish from this retailer, for me, is high. So much so that if I don’t get some help from the retailer I won’t be shopping with them anymore, and that’s a real shame, because I like the store, but I can’t trust their live stock.

Anyways, they are going to tell me how this story ends tomorrow.

Either I will be thrilled that they are interested in customer service and maintain a standard or I will be disappointed that I have to go somewhere else…

Anyways, I feel it is important for us, the fish community, is fully aware of what happens, good or bad, at our stores because it affects us all. I’m not trying to take a stab at them, or put them down – I’ve had some really great experiences with them.

I will keep you posted…

[jvision]

Some stores in the city are just for harware and dry goods, IME... their livestock just cannot be trusted.

[fortheloveofcrabs]

The store did call me back the next day, just as promised.

They didn’t do much for me, however. They offered me 25% off of the purchase of my next fish from them. That’s not really the issue, now is it?

The fact of the matter is the “less than a week” mortality rate from this retailer is in the 50% rage – yikes. If I buy a $60 fish, I want more than six days out of it. Offering me $15 off another fish, which only has a 50/50 shot of living more than 7 days just isn’t good enough. I realize that most saltwater live stock retailers don’t offer a warranty on their stuff, but having been a retail manager for several years, I know there are always exceptions.

They did offer to help trouble shoot what happened – it could have been my sand bed. It could have been the fact that I added new fish. Fine. The fellow was very nice on the phone, understanding and sympathetic.

I’ve shopped this store for as long as I’ve been into the hobby. I’m a strong believer in customer loyalty, but it is a two way street. I’ve always liked the store and the staff.

The issue here, for me, is that although I’ve shopped with them for six years – they know my face and have my customer file – for the price of one fish, they are willing to write all of that off. They are willing to write off all the future business.

The only other bad experience I had there was when I purchased a flowerpot coral from them (albeit, this was half my fault because I should have done my homework first) but I was assured that it was an easy to care for LPS provided I buy “Reef Roids” and fed regularly. Sadly, just like most people out there, my alveopora did melt away a year later.

They are a little more expensive for some things, but I didn’t mind because I wanted to support local businesses. I had hoped that local business would have supported their customers – I guess I was wrong.

I’m off to find a new retailer - and not happy about it.

[fencer]

PM Kelly at the reef shoppe

[Underwater]

Kelly and his wife, Carla are FANTASTIC!! I drove all the way up there from Calgary...and it was worth it. They are pleasant, understanding and even have an emergency fish rescue set-up. I would check them out before going anywhere else. They may do this on the side, but it is because of their love of the hobby-not just to turn a quick buck.

JMO-
~M

[des_merc]

Where is the reed shoppe located so I can check it out.

thanks

[toxic111]

Kelly runs the Reef Shoppe out of his basement in Lloydminster... http://www.thereefshoppe.ca for his contact info.

Its best to call him after 5:30 in the evening, as he has a regular day job...

He is great to deal with, and will help you out with what he can.

[Doo]

Kelly is great to deal with and he comes to Edmonton all the time. His prices are also fantastic :)

[hillbillyreefer]

I just ordered a skimmer from Kelly this afternoon. It'll be here by the weekend. Great people to deal with.

[midgetwaiter]

Everything checked out:

Temp 80
SG was 1.023
Ammonium was 0ppm
No2 was 5ppm
No3 was 0ppm
and the PH was 8.11


You had a nitrite level of 5ppm. That's bad.

[fortheloveofcrabs]

When I spoke to the guy from the store, that struck him as well. I couldn't figure it out - why was my NO2 so high... I went to retest and, well, my test kit only goes up to 3.3ppm...

Ahem.

It's supposed to read 0.5ppm. Sorry about that.

[Big Al's BC]

The store did call me back the next day, just as promised.

They didn’t do much for me, however. They offered me 25% off of the purchase of my next fish from them. That’s not really the issue, now is it?

The fact of the matter is the “less than a week” mortality rate from this retailer is in the 50% rage – yikes. If I buy a $60 fish, I want more than six days out of it. Offering me $15 off another fish, which only has a 50/50 shot of living more than 7 days just isn’t good enough. I realize that most saltwater live stock retailers don’t offer a warranty on their stuff, but having been a retail manager for several years, I know there are always exceptions.

They did offer to help trouble shoot what happened – it could have been my sand bed. It could have been the fact that I added new fish. Fine. The fellow was very nice on the phone, understanding and sympathetic.

I’ve shopped this store for as long as I’ve been into the hobby. I’m a strong believer in customer loyalty, but it is a two way street. I’ve always liked the store and the staff.

The issue here, for me, is that although I’ve shopped with them for six years – they know my face and have my customer file – for the price of one fish, they are willing to write all of that off. They are willing to write off all the future business.

The only other bad experience I had there was when I purchased a flowerpot coral from them (albeit, this was half my fault because I should have done my homework first) but I was assured that it was an easy to care for LPS provided I buy “Reef Roids” and fed regularly. Sadly, just like most people out there, my alveopora did melt away a year later.

They are a little more expensive for some things, but I didn’t mind because I wanted to support local businesses. I had hoped that local business would have supported their customers – I guess I was wrong.

I’m off to find a new retailer - and not happy about it.

fortheloveofcrabs,

We wanted to address your experience with what we feel may be helpful to you and others in understanding this particular industry.
The two fish you purchased in this 6 month period are very hardy. One likely from Brazil and the other from Hawaii, collecting neglect is unlikely but let's address a stores responsibility.
Any store keeping marine ornamentals should do their best to maintain the health of these animals. Provided these particular fish were healthy in appearance and feeding, it is fairly safe to say those needs were met.
Generally there is no guarantee from an exporter to a wholesaler or retailer other than live arrival. This guarantee would only reflect substantial loss which is rarely the case. Once a retailer has said fish in their care, there is no guarantee to them whatsoever.
Now, to use your case as an example, any compensation they offer you is a direct loss to that particular company. Obviously the bigger picture is keeping a customer happy but how far will a store go to do this? We feel their offer is generous and sympathetic to a situation that could likely have nothing to do with the store itself. This sort of compensation probably comes from your history with that particular operator. Of course we are generalizing here by not knowing all the facts. A Yellow Tang is extremely hardy but as you say, your DSB could be an issue. Possibly the NO2 level which is strange that it is even present or it could be random caused by the stress of it's last few weeks of travels and have nothing to do with you directly. It is impossible to say for sure. Even if there was a physical contributor, where would that blame fall?
Any hobbyist is taking a risk with any live purchase made for any aquarium. Stress is a huge factor and the quality of the particular fish.
As you have said, you have had good experiences with this particular shop as well and the fact that they are offering to compensate you even partially is strictly out of good faith, and likely not out of any sort of sense of wrong doing.
This sort of situation is not easy to deal with from a retailers side because often a customer will interpret the "no guarantee policy" as it must be the customer's fault. The customer is ultimately responsible once the fish is taken from a store. Just as the store is responsible for the fish once it arrives in the store. It is equally as difficult for a customer as yourself who does everything they can to provide a comfortable housing for these fish only to lose one with no obvious reason. No one likes to feel as if they have thrown money away and losing a newly purchased fish is an awful feeling.

We hope you determine the eventual cause to this loss but unfortunately in this hobby sometimes you don't find that answer.
Best if luck in the future,

Big Al's BC

[Boomboy]

umm you never mentioned the store how am is supposed to know what store to NOT shop at???

[christyf5]

umm you never mentioned the store how am is supposed to know what store to NOT shop at???

send them a PM to find out.

[mark]

When I spoke to the guy from the store, that struck him as well. I couldn't figure it out - why was my NO2 so high... I went to retest and, well, my test kit only goes up to 3.3ppm...

Ahem.

It's supposed to read 0.5ppm. Sorry about that.

0.5 is high as well for Nitrite, basically should be zero or near zero for an established tank

[Dabbler]

I will let you know my experiences. I got 2 2 spot gobys$35 each, the store had them for 3 weeks before I bought them. Got them home put them in the tank, and the one just decided not to eat and withered away to nothing. I bought a beautiful elegance coral (also not researching) and fought to keep it alive for over a month but it died $220 gone. I went through 3 copper band butterfly’s ($100 each) before I got one that lived and they all ate when I got them, the last one just up and died 1 year later. Loved my Sea hare it got caught in my overflow after 1 1/2 years then went through 3 more cuz they just up and died, and it wasn't due to lack of food. I feel with this hobby both salt and fresh water fish you roll the dice. There are only a few Local Stores that I know that actually QT there fish for 2 weeks + even before they let them out to be seen for purchase ( unless you are good friends and they take you back to the Qt room) so they can observe and feed and treat as necessary from shipping, pick you LFS and look at what they do If you like what you see they most likly all is good you just got a bad fish...it happens. With fresh water I had some bad luck too I bought a zebra plecko I put him in my tank and he swam onece around my drift wood and went to sleep and never came back. You say hummm bad water... new tank? Well it was a New tank but it had been running 2 months with an overflow and cycled with 10 giant diano's and it was 120 gallons so not a prob with water chem. ( and yes I check my water with test kits all was good) he just died