Algae is kikkin' my butt ?

[TANGOMAN]

Those of you who have met me will know why I'm bald ! It's because I'm constantly pulling the hair out of my head trying to control an algae problem in my 90g. Ironically, hair algae. Or a form of it. It is much "finer" than what I've seen over the years.
I've got two tanks goin'. The other is perfect. Same water supply and parameters. I was certain the 90g was suffering from lighting problems. Wrong. I had replaced the two 55w PC's (10K) and added 2x 40W NO Actinics. Pulled all the hairy rocks and scrubbed 'em. (this process surely had nothing to do with a form of parasitic irritation the fish suffered from). I began growing Caulerpa in the sump on a reverse photoperiod. I ran the tank for two weeks with no PC lighting. Things looked good and then wham, it's back with a vengeance.
With a lionfish there is no "clean-up crew", a Lemonpeel Angel and a stupid Damsel are the other occupants. Bio-load I feel is low to moderate. Yes, lions are messy eaters but the other two clean up awesomely behind him.
Rocks I'm thinkin' may be the problem ? When I bought this tank used several years back it had some live rock and a lot of "lava rock". Ya know, the pieces with big holes in it that's way over priced. I removed some of the lave rock and added live rock.
Should I "junk" the lava rock. I once read natural elements could be present and leach out over time...hmmm. Iron ? Yum yum... :eek:
It's time for something drastic. I'm sick of fighting with this tank. I just go to the other room and admire my 60g... :evil: Any thoughts on cleansing this nusiance from the live rock...I read about a week or two in a tub with tank water and maracyn in the dark...?
Help me.... :confused:

[ganowicki]

I am fairly new to this but it was my understanding that lava rock contained phospates. I had a similar problem and it was all caused by a piece of lava rock a little bit larger than my fist. I pulled the rock and it cleaned up in a couple of weeks. If it it was me I'd pull the lava rock

[ranz]

I have half a tank of lava and live rock, I can't claim that I havnt had problems with algae but it is not a nussaince. I have had bad cycles but it usually cleans up on its own...

My problem is calcium which has always made me wonder about the lava rock. I have added 7 teaspoons of Kent Turbo Calcium and 4 gallons of KALK and still only get readings of 280 ppm (THESE READING are correct). Anyways here is something I have done and it works great for algae clean-up...

1) put an extra mechanical pad in overflow to catch loose algae only until tank clears up...

2) Take a electric tooth brush and wrap a rubber glove around the electrical end and wrap two elastics to seal it.

3) Go at those rocks... sounds barbarick but works great...

4) Remove extra mechanical pad in overflow.

Ranzreef....

[Beverly]

It's because I'm constantly pulling the hair out of my head trying to control an algae problem in my 90g. Ironically, hair algae. Or a form of it. It is much "finer" than what I've seen over the years.

With a lionfish there is no "clean-up crew",

Geez, I didn't know you couldn't keep snails with a lionfish. If you could, though, I'd add a couple of dozen astreas or other snails. They'd fix your algae problem pretty quickly, ime.

[ranz]

Very good point......Beverly

simple fix

[Quinn]

lionfish will eat them apparently :neutral: i'm no expert, but i've read bad things about lava rock.

[BCOrchidGuy]

My understanding is that Lava rock releases iron into the water, which of course is a nutrient for the algae..... just some food for thought, have you tried an iron or phosphate test kit?

[ranz]

Phosphates are zero in my tank...

Ranz

[Bob I]

Here we go round and round again. This time lava rock gets it. I have used the stuff for years. At this time I have some in each of my three tanks. I have never had a problem :cool: :eek:

[Diomedes]

Hey Tango, here is what I think you should do...try to find some old/dead LR to replace the lava. It isn't natural anyhow, but I don't think it leaches phos or iron in any special quantities. IMO the maracyn thing is a little over board...and besides only cyanobacteria will be affected. Describe your algae.

Maybe this will help - it is an exerpt from an article I wrote a couple of months back. It is not in complete form, and some things have been omitted for the sake of brevity...I hope it helps...PM me if you need the entire list of 23 algae-inhibiting techniques and information.

Algae Control
There are a number of contributing factors that make algae one of the most formidable challenges in modern aquarium keeping. But lets start with a brief description of the enemy…pest algaes are usually unicellular (very small) little basic plants that thrive in the presence of Light, Nitrates, Phosphates and Carbon dioxide. Secondary contributing elements are Iron, Silicon and Iodine among others. They can overgrow rocks and make viewing an aquarium as pleasurable as looking at a transparent bucket of dirt. Their weaknesses lie in the 4 main contributing factors described above, as well as the fact that many things like to eat them.
The below methods focus on manipulating nutrient import vs. export ratios.

1)Do a water change – If you haven’t been doing water changes, algae causing compounds may be accumulating in your water. If you have been especially lazy, it may take a couple of changes over a week or two to get back to a healthy levels of pollutants.
2)Up and Out Clean – when you are cleaning the glass in your aquarium, clean from the bottom up and ‘slop’ the hand held scrubber into a waiting bucket of fresh water to rinse it out. This gets the waste matter out of your system, so that it can’t be broken down into nutrients that feed more algae. This is especially important if your current is low and you don’t run a protein skimmer.
3)Circulation – Any place in your tank where waste material settles is a prime algae growing engine. In these areas nutrients and CO2 accumulate and are released that cause algae growth.
4)Cleanup crew – These are my recommendations for the ideal cleanup crew. The number of these organisms should be individually tailored to suit your tanks needs. Keep in mind that if you are feeding these critters they will not be as inclined to eat your algae – Therefore don’t let your food hit the ground.
i)Blue-legged hermit crabs
ii)Scarlet hermit crabs
iii)Algae eating snails (I prefer Turbo, Cerith snails)
5)Source water – Reverse Osmosis/ Deionized water helps because it doesn’t contain contaminants that encourage algae. But if you are using tap water get it checked for Phosphates, Nitrates, Silicates (if poss.) and overall Total Dissolved Solids (TDS).
6)Clean Floss/Foam – the more often you clean these during an algae outbreak the better. When sitting in your filter they are not doing much good. Water is being pressured through a block of foam that is full of rotting matter. The real filtering occurs when you take the foam/floss out and clean it under the tap.
7)Limit nutrient input – Don’t overfeed and use the techniques described above in the nutrition section. One piece of krill can foul up a 50 gallon tank if left to rot. Feed slowly, let each piece be eaten before adding another.
8)Turkey baster – using a turkey baster to blow off collected waste on rocks and gravel is a very simple, effective way to clean. This mimics wave action breaking on the surface of the rock and taking away rotting sediment. Clean your sponge/floss filter out after.
10)Herbivorous fish – there are many species of fish that eat algae. My favourites are Kole’s tang (Ctenochaetus strigosus) and the Jeweled Rockskipper (Salarias fasciatus). Look into other fish in the books listed below - certain fish match certain algaes.
12) High KH, pH – In my personal experience that keeping the pH, KH high encourages less algae growth – pH 8.4, KH 10 dKH.
13)Dose Kalkwasser – this precipitates out phosphates and helps keep pH high.
14)Maintain temperature low (75 degrees) – If you are a beginner or are having real issues, this allows you to keep a better handle on the situation. The metabolic speed of everything in your tank is tied into temperature...your fishes appetite, waste production, Algae growth etc.
Make temperature adjustments slowly.
16) Protein Skimming – while protein skimming will not eliminate algae in an improperly maintained aquarium, it is capable of eliminating tons of waste before it breaks down.
23) READ, READ, READ – Read every book in the Recommended reading section and then apply that knowledge. Algae will jump out of your tank and run at the very sight of you.

Cheers
Stephen

[Bob I]

I am moved to give a bit of advice that may hurt some people's sensibilities, but half baked ideas will not cure a full blown problem.

Remember that algaes are the world's most common organism. It is in the air we breathe and the water we drink. It did not get that way by being sensitive.

By your own admission the algae is on the rocks. Ergo you must remove ALL of the rocks. Leaving the rocks out in the air will not cure the problem. You will have to kill the problem, probably with bleach.

I would got to Riverfront and pick up some Calcium Carbonate rock. It looks good, and you can leave it in the tank when you are sure all the rock you took out is put back in. You just need a few pieces as temporary decorations.

As I said at the start, half measures won't help. :onfire: :snipersm:

[Diomedes]

Sorry the text didn't convert too well...lots of numbers...

Well when you have algae problems, you can tackle them with a greater understanding of the problem, or you can just revert to bleaching and blasting your rock with medications. Learn more about algae from reading and you can destroy it without killing all the rest of the life on your rock. I have defeated very bad algae problems with husbandry based on understanding, and I will never, ever bleach or medicate my rock.

Learn or Destroy.

Stephen

[Bob I]

Sorry the text didn't convert too well...lots of numbers...

Well when you have algae problems, you can tackle them with a greater understanding of the problem, or you can just revert to bleaching and blasting your rock with medications. Learn more about algae from reading and you can destroy it without killing all the rest of the life on your rock. I have defeated very bad algae problems with husbandry based on understanding, and I will never, ever bleach or medicate my rock.

Learn or Destroy.

Stephen

Exactly right, that is the beauty of a forum such as this. The poster is left with a couple of clear choices. He can tackle the problem by using the solution that allows him to enjoy his aquarium right away, or one that will proibably take a lot longer. Both solutions are good in the final analysis, however, the choice is his, and his alone. It is also a fact that none of the folks giving advice will be affected in any way by what he does. :rolleyes:

[TANGOMAN]

"Half baked..." hmmm, that sounds like a mental state from the earlier years. :drinking: .
Bob, don't go gettin' your poop in a group... :lol: This lava rock issue seemed to hit a nerve. I'm doin' the process of elimination thing. I have with this tank for close to a year and a half. Obviously, I'm going the slower of the two processes available. Nuke it with bleach...? :eek: . That too is simply treating the symptoms, not the cause. However, I value the suggestion. I gather suggestions when I no longer know what to do and make an educated guess from that. Clean-up crew. Yes it helps to control but it is not a must in my opinion. Again, treating the symptoms. My 60g has two snails and 5 crabs. They do very little I think. :confused: Carbon has been mentioned and experimented with. Mechanical pre-filter is changed every second day. Dosed kalc for two months. Coraline increased niceley but cannot compete. I'm skimming, but just "moderately" as it's a small skimmer. I've scrubbed this crap of and gave enough blood in the process to make the Red Cross envious...
Phosphates and nitrates are the same as the 60g. Minimal to nil. I figured perhaps the evil nutrient must either be Iron or silicate. Only the 90g has lava rock so thats where I conjured up a suspision Iron may be leaching...

Over the past year, I have removed "artificial" bio-filtration. (bio-balls & Fluval 404). That should have been beneficial given all the rock I presumed. I'm goona' try this: Get the foams for the fluval established in the sump for a few weeks. Run the Fluval for bio-filtration. Pull all the rocks. Lava rock will go into storage. Live rock will be subjected to darkness for two(?) weeks in rubbermaids,(warm & wet). Hmmm, another state of mind from earlier years :cool: .
"honey, where's the Band-Aids..." :cry:

[Bob I]

. I figured perhaps the evil nutrient must either be Iron or silicate. Only the 90g has lava rock so thats where I conjured up a suspision Iron may be leaching...

Why not think the other way, as in perhaps there are no "evil nutrients" at all. I am dreaming that perhaps you brought the stuff in on a rock, or something else, and it just likes it at your place. :eek:

If you go that route there would be no harm in removing the offending material, as there is really no cause, and removal would cure the problem. :cool:

I hope you can see where I am going with this. :splat:

[StirCrazy]

Why not think the other way, as in perhaps there are no "evil nutrients" at all. I am dreaming that perhaps you brought the stuff in on a rock, or something else, and it just likes it at your place. :eek:

If you go that route there would be no harm in removing the offending material, as there is really no cause, and removal would cure the problem. :cool:

I hope you can see where I am going with this. :splat:

Bob, with out these so called "Evil nutrients" the algae would eventualy wither away to nothing. so it make more sence to find the cause of the excessive algae growth and remove it (yes the nutrients) removing the algae its self is only a bandaid not a cure. and not trying to bore you but Lava rock is a knowen leacher of iron and other minerals wich are knowen for causeing algae growth

now having said that, it does not mean that every lava rock will leach.. it all depends on the chemical make up of that perticular lava rock.

Steve

[BCOrchidGuy]

I guess I'm lucky, I have no problem algaes growing, I have lots of calupera growing in my refugium.... (knock on wood)

[EmilyB]

I'm skimming, but just "moderately" as it's a small skimmer.

Doug, doug, doug.... :lol: :mrgreen: :razz: :rolleyes: :eek: We should bring the Euro - Reef over for a visit. No big deal. You just pick them up and go. Then they skim......call it a demo :cool:

[BCOrchidGuy]

Doug Me or the other Doug?... the nice one..

[EmilyB]

I quoted him.......but all dougs apply... :cool:

However, DADDY Doug will know about Euroreefs......... :mrgreen: :razz:

[TANGOMAN]

I'm definately not the"Daddy Doug" so can I presume I'm the nice one... :confused:
Great plan Deb ! Lets bring that RO unit over here as well. How about Cooper ? You can keep Emily though 'cause she just gives gives me dirty looks... :lol: .
What about the Lava rock ? Maybe I could give it to Bob... :lol: .

[Bob I]

What about the Lava rock ? Maybe I could give it to Bob... :lol: .

Sure, why not?, it would look nice around my garden. :BIG: