SPS question

[niloc16]

i'm having an issue lately of losing the tips on a handful of colonies and i have lost a couple pieces as well. there is no sign of any pests and have dipped like crazy and magnify glassed them all with no signs. one thing i did find is my CA is 500. has anyone heard of too high of CA causing these kinds of problems

[marie]

That sounds similar to the problems I had back in Jan.
I never did find out what caused the problem but after going through 5 buckets of salt worth of water changes, the tank is recovering

*Edit* The only thing I can think of was the inteceptor treatment I did in dec., after the second treatment everything went down hill rapidly

[Ephraim]

I've had this kinda problem too. I found the best solution for me was to keep softies instead. Never happened again.

[Snappy]

Colin,
What are you other parameters? Alk, Mag, PH, etc? What are you using for magnesium?

[Oceanic]

When the tips alone are effected, this is often caused by a K+ imbalance or a generally too low nutrient situation that is not being supplemented by AAs and other organics. This often happens with to aggressive carbon filtration, but an overly efficient nutrient removal system in general will do it too.


:idea: Check your Potassium level!! buy a Kalium test kit. It should be at around 380.

[Oceanic]

When the tips alone are effected, this is often caused by a K+ imbalance or a generally too low nutrient situation that is not being supplemented by AAs and other organics. This often happens with a too aggressive carbon filtration, but an overly efficient nutrient removal system in general will do it, too.


:idea: Check your Potassium level!! buy a Kalium test kit. It should be at around 380.

[Snappy]

When the tips alone are effected, this is often caused by a K+ imbalance or a generally too low nutrient situation that is not being supplemented by AAs and other organics. This often happens with a too aggressive carbon filtration, but an overly efficient nutrient removal system in general will do it, too.


:idea: Check your Potassium level!! buy a Kalium test kit. It should be at around 380.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/goodpost.gif

I agree that is a great place to start.

[Oceanic]

:mrgreen:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/goodpost.gif

I agree that is a great place to start.

[christyf5]

Interesting, I had this problem as well earlier this year. Just the tips were affected and I noticed on a couple of corals that I accidentally brushed up against that the tips were very crumbly not hard like they should have been. I also noticed that if I broke the tips off just to where the tissue was they'd heal up pretty quickly but then later on other ones would have the same issue. I can't remember what I chalked it up to at the time, low alk perhaps. Never thought of potassium but I think I might get a kit just to scope it out even though I'm not having the issues now.

I did add a bucket of Seachem into the mix at some point after this happened, maybe it has better K+ levels than IO on its own.

[Oceanic]

Seachem reef salt does have higher K+ than Instant Ocean. IME most peoples tanks are somewhat K+ deprived when using certain salts and nutrient reduction systems.

I highly recommend the KZ Kalium test kit even though it can be hard to read sometimes. Using ZEOvit Pohl's K-Balance STRONG Potassium is what I use to raise the potasium.


Interesting, I had this problem as well earlier this year. Just the tips were affected and I noticed on a couple of corals that I accidentally brushed up against that the tips were very crumbly not hard like they should have been. I also noticed that if I broke the tips off just to where the tissue was they'd heal up pretty quickly but then later on other ones would have the same issue. I can't remember what I chalked it up to at the time, low alk perhaps. Never thought of potassium but I think I might get a kit just to scope it out even though I'm not having the issues now.

I did add a bucket of Seachem into the mix at some point after this happened, maybe it has better K+ levels than IO on its own.

[niloc16]

thanks for the input guys. i never thought of potassium i need to get a kit. low nutrients! wow and i keep getting told i've over stocked the fish.

ph 8.0
mg 1380
ca 500
dkh 10
po4 slightly detectable with elos kit
no3 undetectable

i run a big bag of carbon all the time and i also run the phosban reactor full of rowaphos all the time. both are changed out roughly once a month or when i remember :biggrin:

the thing that sucks is that my favorite pieces of the ones effected, as usual!

[Ya Dude]

as precaution i would turn off carbon + phos ban for now

[Ya Dude]

also if you dont use Zeo theres no need to test for K
zeoliths are the cause of potassium depletion

[Reefer Rob]

With all those fish in your tank it's definitely not a lack of nutrients. Burnt growth tips could be a sign of iodine depletion.

[Snappy]

also if you dont use Zeo theres no need to test for K
zeoliths are the cause of potassium depletion
I don't disagree that the zeolite depletes potasium but corals do use it and if you don't replenish it you may have problems in a well stocked sps tank. I don't run zeo but still dose with Kbalance daily and I think it makes quite a difference in the overall health of my corals. I also dose iodine, strontium and several other trace elements.
Colin, there are so many variables to what the cause could be, whether it's one thing or a bunch combined it's hard for us to tell here. I would give some hard thought as to what may have changed in your routine, etc. If that isn't the case I would test as many parameters as possible and see where that takes you. How old are the cartridges for your RO and when was the membrane last changed? Also why are you running carbon 24/7? Do you have a lot of softies and LPS in your system? If not the carbon is probably just pulling out some trace elements, etc. If you are skimming heavy I doubt you need the rowaphos unless you're seeing an algae build up. It's not always easy to get the right balance but sps still needs some nutrients to thrive.

[Oceanic]

MY TURN!!

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/goodpost.gif


I agree, you don't have to run Zeolites to be low in potasium, any tank can be low in potasium for a number of reasons. The potasium may never get as low as a zeovit tank; however, the levels may still get low enough in combination with another low or missing element causing issues such as tip regression. Iodine is also another idea and is easily fixed. I dose two drops of Lugols every monday and friday to keep some free iodine available for the corals.

I run carbon passivly in a filter sock and works perfectly. Using carbon in a reactor can be too aggressive if run 24/7 with a high flow rate.


:mrgreen:


I don't disagree that the zeolite depletes potasium but corals do use it and if you don't replenish it you may have problems in a well stocked sps tank. I don't run zeo but still dose with Kbalance daily and I think it makes quite a difference in the overall health of my corals. I also dose iodine, strontium and several other trace elements.
Colin, there are so many variables to what the cause could be, whether it's one thing or a bunch combined it's hard for us to tell here. I would give some hard thought as to what may have changed in your routine, etc. If that isn't the case I would test as many parameters as possible and see where that takes you. How old are the cartridges for your RO and when was the membrane last changed? Also why are you running carbon 24/7? Do you have a lot of softies and LPS in your system? If not the carbon is probably just pulling out some trace elements, etc. If you are skimming heavy I doubt you need the rowaphos unless you're seeing an algae build up. It's not always easy to get the right balance but sps still needs some nutrients to thrive.

[Chin_Lee]

I had problems awhile back when I forgot to dose my iodine weekly. I started again and whenever I dose with iodine i get a good reaction of expansion with my softies. I also use Lugols and I'm too cheap to get an iodine test kit. So I've been dosing 3-4 drops of Lugols every week to 600g of water volume. One tank is heavy LPS and another tank is heavy SPS.
Oceanic - whats your water volume to Lugol drops ratio?

[Oceanic]

I dose 4 drops weekly to 160 gallons, I find this gives me the best results and I also do not test for iodine.

Lugols directions does say to dose 1 drop per 25G per week. This would be 6 drops for me; however, I have just stuck to 4. I also dose 8 drops of Kent Fe (iron) monday and friday.



I had problems awhile back when I forgot to dose my iodine weekly. I started again and whenever I dose with iodine i get a good reaction of expansion with my softies. I also use Lugols and I'm too cheap to get an iodine test kit. So I've been dosing 3-4 drops of Lugols every week to 600g of water volume. One tank is heavy LPS and another tank is heavy SPS.
Oceanic - whats your water volume to Lugol drops ratio?

[niloc16]

i have NEVER dosed iodine, maybe its something i should look into. my carbon is in a filter sock but all water through the sump is forced through it. actually i have never dosed anything aside from using rowaphos. the only thing that has changed in the last month or so is switching to seachem reef salt. ca and alk was a lot better in this salt over IO. i honestly dont know why i ever leave IO, ive never had problems with it and the 2 times i tried different salts something happens. initially i was getting really good results from the seachem but maybe in the end, this is the problem

[Chin_Lee]

Colin
i woudl consider dosing iodine if you are running carbon all the time. Carbon unfortunately absorbs the good, the bad and the ugly.

[Oceanic]

Are you now using the Seachem Reef Salt?

If so your ALK tests may be inacurate causing your issues. Seachem reef salt has a high borate content giving false result to true alk.

The high borate alk-portion involved with Seachem Reef Salt does not contribute to the bicarbonate & carbonate, which are the main components of alkalinity in our tanks but our alk. test kits read it as such, thus with Seachem Reef Salt, if your test result reads say 9.5 DkH the real, effective alkalinity is in the low 8's. In order to keep the DKH stable with Seachem you need to account for about 1.2-1.3 DKH to borate ALK meaning you need to keep your level about this much higher than with IO salt.

Make sense? :neutral:



i have NEVER dosed iodine, maybe its something i should look into. my carbon is in a filter sock but all water through the sump is forced through it. actually i have never dosed anything aside from using rowaphos. the only thing that has changed in the last month or so is switching to seachem reef salt. ca and alk was a lot better in this salt over IO. i honestly dont know why i ever leave IO, ive never had problems with it and the 2 times i tried different salts something happens. initially i was getting really good results from the seachem but maybe in the end, this is the problem

[christyf5]

i have NEVER dosed iodine, maybe its something i should look into. my carbon is in a filter sock but all water through the sump is forced through it. actually i have never dosed anything aside from using rowaphos. the only thing that has changed in the last month or so is switching to seachem reef salt. ca and alk was a lot better in this salt over IO. i honestly dont know why i ever leave IO, ive never had problems with it and the 2 times i tried different salts something happens. initially i was getting really good results from the seachem but maybe in the end, this is the problem

Colin, I had switched to Seachem at one point. All it took was one bucket and I was back to IO. My corals weren't happy campers and I attributed this to the higher borate levels (I cant' remember specifically what it was doing to my tank though). This time I had to get Seachem as my LFS didn't have anything else and I was desperate. I just did a couple of small waterchanges with it and by the time my next waterchange they had IO in. I've been mixing the two equally until the seachem bucket is done and then I'll be back to IO. I have heard some people use seachem without problems but I'm not a fan.

[Snappy]

I also tried one bucket of sea chem and changed back to reef crystals within a few weeks as I thought the stuff was terrible. I'll never use it again. FYI, I have dosed iodine for years as well. Something else you may want to try is iron, is helps the greens stay brighter. Like Chin said and I eluded to earlier, carbon isn't very selective about what it will absorb so you need to replenish some of the elements from time to time.

[Oceanic]

Exactly right on with the iron suggestion!

I dose 4 drops weekly to 160 gallons, I find this gives me the best results and I also do not test for iodine.

Lugols directions does say to dose 1 drop per 25G per week. This would be 6 drops for me; however, I have just stuck to 4. I also dose 8 drops of Kent Fe (iron) monday and friday.

[niloc16]

wow, lots of awesome info guys thanks. i'll go back to IO. the last time i switched i told myself i wouldnt do it again, well that didnt last long. i gotta go pick up some stuff by the sounds of it.

[niloc16]

i guess salt is liking going to a party. if you stick with one salt everything usually stays happy and healthy, when you change it up disaster is on the edge. well when you go to a party and drink beer only, you are good to go and have a good time, then if you switch to shots or hard liquor then again disaster is just around the corner waiting for you......:biggrin:

[Reefer Rob]

I know what you mean... about the switching salt thing. Not sure about the shots and hard liquor analogy, I don't see a problem there.

[christyf5]

i guess salt is liking going to a party. if you stick with one salt everything usually stays happy and healthy, when you change it up disaster is on the edge. well when you go to a party and drink beer only, you are good to go and have a good time, then if you switch to shots or hard liquor then again disaster is just around the corner waiting for you......:biggrin:

:rofl:

I was going to say I've usually never had a problem waffling between salts but then there was that kent issue I had awhile back.... :razz:

[Oceanic]

Any updates on the tank?

[niloc16]

well it seems death has stopped i've done 30 gallon water changes for the past 4 days with IO salt. i'm letting it settle and then do another 4 in a couple days. i've some of my favorite pieces, **** me off, but thats reefing for ya