Montipora Self Destructed!

[One_Divided]

IMO, sounds like another case of RTN (rapid tissue necrosis).. The skin will start litterally peeling off and a colony will be a white skeleton within a day or two. Many sps corals are quite suseptable.

I recommend you get the dead skeletons out of the tank asap or else there is a chance of further spreading to other sps.

The frag from the monti should do fine as long as it is sealed off to any area of prior infection.

RTN is generally thought to be stress induced.. Can you think of anything that may have occured recently that was out of the ordinary? sudden water chem change? temp? excessive light?

I'd recommend doing search on reef central for more info. good luck!

[ 23 February 2002: Message edited by: One_Divided ]</p>

[One_Divided]

Sounds like it could also be a similar thing to this..

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=65709

[Samw]

I had some quick tissue and polyp loss on my tan montipora digitata frag when I placed it too close (3-4" away) to my pearly bubble coral. Then I moved it away and it recovered. Later, when I moved it near the cabbage coral (3-4" away), it started to turn white again (The side nearest the cabbage). Now, I don't put it close to any soft corals and it is recovering quite nicely. I read that cabbage corals can be toxic to stony corals so I guess this was what was happening to mine.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=22&pCatId=638

[ 23 February 2002: Message edited by: Sam W ]</p>

[canadawest]

Has anyone had this happen before??

Last night both of my Montipora Digitata (tan) frags were looking great. Both have been growing extremely well since I got them about two months ago.

This morning I awoke to quite a shock. One of the Montipora looked like it completely self destructed. All of it's white skeleton is visible, and a tan slime is covering the entire coral.

What the h&ll happened???

Has anyone else had a Montipora do this, and do you know the cause? I haven't added anything to the tank other than Kalkwasser and the occasional buffer, and that's been a regular routine for many months. All water parameters check out great.

The odd thing is, the other frag is doing excellent (as well as a tiny piece I broke off and am starting a new frag with), so I'm pretty confidant that it's not water chemistry related?

Thoughts?

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

With my brief experience in SPS, I have found that lighting, water flow, competition and food can cause RTN. I am assuming that you got the lighting and food down...so you may want to check the water flow.

The best way to check is to place a LPS coral where the SPS sat. If the LPS is waving its little tenticles...then there is enough current. If it is barely moving...then that's you problem.

Problem with these SPS is that they don't tell you right away when they are unhappy. It is usually something I did 5 to 6 days ago...and then it tells me.

Hope that helps.

- Victor.

[SuperFudge]

Hi guy`s,

I dont believe it is RTN,

I honestly think that disease is misdiagnosed waaay too much.

In my experience this disease has only shown itself in newly aquired wild caught SPS.

Ive had many corals that have shown signs of fast tissue loss (not receeded) that have cleared up with the acclimation to a different (usually older) system at the first signs.....In RTN, ive never been able to save the main colony thru fragging or placing in a different system.

I think i would look more at a trace element loss or O.D. of some sort....like the accidental addition of kalk/buffer/element overdose.

Or even more likely,a toxin from a nieghboring coral....you could look at LPS "down stream" from your frags for a start.

Was this frag that survived on either end of the three monti frags?


FWIW,ive even seen overnight bleaching due to salt creep!
I had cleaned perimeter bracing and a big chunk of salt creep fell back into the tank and beside a frag,(of course i left it)only to bleach it completely by morning.

Anyways..thinking out loud,Marc.

[SuperFudge]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by reefburnaby:

Problem with these SPS is that they don't tell you right away when they are unhappy. It is usually something I did 5 to 6 days ago...and then it tells me.

- Victor.<hr></blockquote>


I agree with part of this Victor,the coral population as a whole may show signs of slow deterioration in five or six days....but most( mine anyways) SPS will slime within minutes,if theres a major problem.
If its minor,(like a low current)consant polyp retraction would be your first signs.

Andrew,

I would aslo check to make sure it is skeleton you see and not bleached tissue,as the latter can still easily come back...provided its causes have been remedied.

A good way to tell,is within a day or two you will see signs of diatoms on the skeleton,this wont happen if theres any tissue on there.


Marc.

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: Superfudge ]</p>

[SuperFudge]

oops

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: Superfudge ]</p>

[Canadian]

Marc,

Just wanted to say that I agree with you about RTN diagnosis. The only time I've ever seen what I would diagnose as RTN was with wild colonies only.

Just wanted to say "good call" images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[DJ88]

Well I am going to go with Marc on this one.

I have had RTN hit wild colonies and have had tissue loss hit frags. The frags I could take off a piece and save it. Once RTN starts even the frags you try to save are toast. Tho I have only seen what I can say was RTN twice. I have also had SPS stressed out enough to drop all the Zooxanthellae.

I'd say there is something that has either stung the coral and is powerful enough to kill it all or there is a problem with your system. Water quality, lighting, levels etc.

Didn't you just change your skimmer? It may be that your old one was just at the edge of keeping up with the wastes in your tank and during the break in period of your Berlin the levels in your tank have gone up enough to stress the Montipora enough that is has died.

Take a look at what is around. Have you fragged any Xenia lately? have any wandering polyps?

Look to what may have caused it rather than what it exactly was that happened.

Start with water then go to other corals. SamW has raised a good point with softies and SPS. Any close by????

HTH

[One_Divided]

That's why I added that reef central link.. I'm thinking it's not rtn as well.. just read what borneman says about the thing on the thread.. does that look similar andrew?

[canadawest]

Well I truly appreciate all of the great replies.

I am tending to lean towards another coral attacking the Montipora, but also stress relating from the recent skimmer change could be related too?

Here are some details. Yes, the three frags I had were all located opposite each other. The two larger ones were at opposite ends of the tank, and the tiny branch is in the center. It was the frag on the right side of the tank that destructed, and it completely bright white now. The other two frags still look fine.

There are several LPS neighbours within 6-8" of the deceased Montipora. A Hammer, Green Open Brain and a frogspawn. There are also several small Xenia colonies that are next to it, even touching it, but that is common to the other large frag on the left side of the tank. The one on the left even has my BTA right next to it, occasionally a tentacle will brush against it in the current, but has never bothered that Montipora.

Now the new skimmer is mounted on the right side of the tank, nearest the dead Montipora so perhaps it is skimmer related? Also I changed the location of a powerhead in that area to accomodate the new location of the skimmer, so perhaps the change in currents in that area was also a contibutor? In any event, whatever the cause it was fast and fatal. As of today the skeleton has no slime or polyps visible on it, it's just a bright sterile white color. I'm going to leave it for another couple days to see if anything happens.

Well I guess the bright side is I still have another healthy sized frag, so hopefully I can raise that one into many others.

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: canadawest ]</p>

[DJ88]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quoteAlso I changed the location of a powerhead in that area to accomodate the new location of the skimmer, so perhaps the change in currents in that area was also a contibutor?

Was the current being directed directly at the frag? was it being hit full force with the power head? How far fom it was the frag?

[REEFLECTIONS]

Hi

Sorry to hear about your loss, I would have to conclude that your problem was caused by something you did in the tank since you stated you had these two corals for two months prior. Usually the most dromatic change temperature will cause such a decay in coral tissue. The same type of problem can happen in coral shippments were whole salers ship SPS in two small of bags and once placd in bags they slime up and the buld up of slime smuthers the corals giving you a dead arival. All in all rethink you your hose keeping did you do something or change something to bring on such a dromatic out break.

Have a great week

A team Canada A

[canadawest]

The power head was actually moved behind the frag, but was aimed to the side of it, completely missing the frag. Previously the powerhead was in a corner creating a surface current in the direction of the frag, but again not directly at it.

I don't think it makes sense to dwell on it further. The frag is gone, but everything else is great so I'll chalk it up as "one of those things" that happens from time to time. Just another reminder that any change to the "status quo" in our ecosystems can have dire and permanent consequences.