rant

[Quinn]

not against anyone on canreef, more against people on RDO and RC. what is with all the senseless, empty, and repeated posts? what do you name your fish? what do i need to keep an anemone? what kind of fish should i put in my tank? honestly, you wonder why some people even bother.

[Aquattro]

Aside from the naming fish thread, it's better to ask a question, even if it's dumb, than kill something because you didn't want to post an "empty" question. RC and RDO have a new option whereby you can choose not to read a thread :wink:

[Quinn]

i guess i should add "you mean they publish books about this?". but yes, good point :lol:

[DJ88]

honestly, you wonder why some people even bother

Would you rather than some of those newbies didn't ask questions then get flamed when they do ask for help? Everyone has to start somewhere.

A lot of time on the bigger boards people that are new to the hobby aren't familiar with how a search engine works. And in many cases people now a days want instant gratification.

If you don't like those kinds of posts, why make one yourself? hmmm?

:D

[Van down by the river]

I agree with you both, reef_raf is right in that you don't have to read it, and I also agree people Should ask lots of questions............but....

I also agree with teevee that people should make more of an effort to learn about the animals they intend to keep. Even though a specific question may be answered as to the specific topic, the general associated knowledge to apply the info is missing. Eg: " How do I keep anemones?" questions of this type shows that very little effort has been made towards general knowledge. What's next? "Can guppies go in my reef?"
I often wonder if they even have a basic understanding of their water parameters to start with eg: PH,Ammonia,Nitrite,Nitrate, Salinity etc....

Yes I feel the flames heating up under me as I write this!(After this teevee I'll take most of the heat for your rant I'm sure)

I just wish the question was more like:" I really like anemones, and I would like some suggestions on a good book/website to learn more. Also which would be a good hardy anemone for a beginner to start with?"

What do I base this opinion on?
I've worked/managed aquarium stores, and too many customers don't want to learn.
They'd rather impulse buy, and ask questions later hoping for the "magic answer". The sad thing is they'll go to another store until they hear the easy answer they want to hear. In the end the animals lose.
Yes, I have refused to sell items that the hobbyist was unprepared to care for, but I always made an attempt to redirect them to a more appropriate item or teach them what they need to know.

Unfortunately books are one of a stores slowest sellers...... :(

There are no shortcuts, and yes I do enjoy helping beginners.

I've mentored many beginners over the years and I myself continue to be taught by others. I feel that this has been a big part of my success.


Golden rules for Succesful Reef keeping:
1- Patience
2- Knowledge
3- Luck ( Had to add this one )

First thing to buy for a Successful Reef Aquarium:

A book........

The BEST money saving Reef Aquarium item:

A book.........


When the student is ready,.... the teacher appears..........

[justaguy]

Teevee and Van, you to could not be more off track.. Teevee questions are made to be asked and like what was told to you.. if you don't find the subject interesting.. don't read them.. Van although I have enjoyed some of your posts I don't agree with this one as far as books go. I did my homework and bought $500.00 worth of books (all recomended by the LFS) not one of them was worth it.. they were all outdated and lacking in info.. I could have saved myself 500.00 if I would have started learking on the boards 4 months sooner. you speak highly of books but there are very few infact that are worth owning.. and I would be tempted to say even fewer than can match the amount of information you can find on the internet.

Why do people ask stupid questions.. simple.. you can get hundreds of opinions with one question whare a book only has one opinion.

Oh I just wanted to say, sence I am not a total learker anymore, HI!

Jeff

[Van down by the river]

Well just a guy,
Great reply, by the way if your LFS recommended $500 worth of books that are no good, I hope you don't shop there anymore. I think that a combination of books and online work well, combined with good hands on. Believe me there is TONS of incorrect crap online too!
It's all part of the learning process.
If this hobby was easy as 1..2..3.. It wouldn't be so fun, right?

There is always a flipside to my opinion (thank God!)

By the way.......
I chose the Chris Farley as: Matt Foley the down and out motivational speaker as I think it adds a satirical homour to my rants...... I'm actually kinda nice in person, just ask me!!....

[Van down by the river]

Oh yeah,
Welcome to the board "ex-lurker"

[Samw]

Well, there's a reason why these websites are called Discussion Groups or Discussion Forums. They are there for discussions (see def'n of forum). There's nothing wrong with asking people what they name their fish or what kind of fish they like to keep, etc as long as the discussions are in the relevant forum group, though many of them should probably go in the Lounge (that is where the moderators step in). Not all discussions have to be serious as far as I'm concerned. Quite often, the discussions can be humourous and entertaining.

As has been said, reading and replying to posts are optional. I agree that some questions are dumb but that's life. I'm sure I've asked my share of dumb questions.

There are libraries and bookstores for those who aren't interested in participating in forums.

[EmilyB]

I presume you will not be asking any stupid questions on here when you get your tank set up, eh Quinn.... :P :wink:

[Aquattro]

Oh I just wanted to say, sence I am not a total learker anymore, HI!

Jeff

Jeff, welcome to the board.

[Bob I]

There really is no such a thing as a stupid question, only those of us who are too stupid to answer them. Of course the questions these "stupid people" ask can be found by looking in the archives. For most folks it is easier to type a question than to do a search. Even if we were to do a FAQ, people woould still ask what we consider to be dumb questions. All we can really do is "build a bridge and cross it" :D :D

[AJ_77]

All we can really do is "build a bridge and cross it" :D :D
And then, blow it up.

:wink:

[Quinn]

ok you're right i take it all back, stupid of me to post. but also what bob said... :?

let's end this here before i embarass myself even more :P

[BC_Grl]

I -for one- have asked many "stupid questions" both here and elsewhere. Yes, I have read a fair bit of books, articles online and still don't know the answer! There are a thousand answers to a handful of questions and who is correct? In a sea of so much information, it's easy to get lost. Now, I go to Amazon website and read the reviews since just because so-so wrote a book, doesn't mean it's going to be up-to-date and informative --or even easy to comprehend. Chemistry & plumbing- it doesn't matter how many articles I've read, I still can't "get it". And yes, I've been flamed for asking dumb questions.

While we ARE in the world that people want someone else to do their homework, it is more kind to suggest a really good book on the subject rather than b*tch about why don't they do their own studying??

Teevee, on a board, you can develop a relationship with people and the Lounge is a great place to "sit down and get to know these people". Why else do you think it was made for? To ask reef questions?

[BCOrchidGuy]

I used to frequent a board and if you asked a question that had been asked in the last week or two, you got spamed, flamed, abused, sworn at, and generally insulted until you cried... (so I hear) lol
They were a mean bunch, and then the worst spammers of the bunch assumed the moderator was letting them spam because they KNOW EVERYTHING... actually he was out of town... lol

Stupid questions can be annoying, if you have seen that question a dozen or more times. Books are great I love em, but like was said.... out of date can be a problem. Heck I've got the Baensch Marine Atlas 1 & 2, some of the stuff in these books is ... questionable, so how do you know... ya ask questions... you make mistakes, you open your wallet and you make more mistakes.... HOPEFULLY you learn as you go. I think we all agree we have all made stupid mistakes, and we have all probably asked more than our share of stupid questions, but when we asked them they weren't so stupid to us.
Teevee. I know it gets frustrating, but just think, one day one of those people may write a book and say, some dude goes by Teevee finally got me to understand this concept.... and BANG your famous....well.. kinda.

[Delphinus]

I am reminded of the one South Park episode where Mr. Garrison says to Cartman: "That's OK, Eric, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people." (And then proceeds to ignore Cartman's question ... )

I guess that, as with most things, you can take the good along with the bad. If people have a genuine interest in learning, they'll get better, and if they don't, likely they'll just lose interest and move on. I agree, sometimes when when a question is asked that was asked only a couple of days prior by someone, the tendency must be there to not want to retype all the same info all over again ... but maybe at least someone can provide a pointer to the other discussion or something.

In the end, it's all good as long as we all learn something ...