Nevin's 14G + 5.5G sump

[Nevin]

This is to document the build of my 14G reef tank, which will replace my 10G:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=38635

The 10G has only been running for a few months, but wasn't really intended to do anything more than get me started learning about saltwater systems. It served that purpose well, and now it's time for something new.

My intent is to build this new system as a nano version of a full system, fully customized and designed for easy maintenance. Thanks to a few good bargains, I am able to do so sooner than expected with the features that I want--halides, Herbie overflow, sump, skimmer.

I don't have much of a plan for livestock. Currently I have:

1 clownfish
1 urchin
5-6 astrea and margarita snails
8-10 blue-legged hermits
1 red scarlet hermit
moon coral
small zoas
few mushrooms
digitata
3 varieties of macro algae

Pics will follow in a separate post.

[Nevin]

Here's the current 10G. The stand will be customized for the new tank and all livestock will be transferred.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07092.jpg

Here's the new lighting in the hood that came with it (I'll probably make an oak pendant fixture to match the stand), 175w MH:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07181.jpg

Here's the new tank (small at 14G, but it's hard to find anything without plastic trim):

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07179.jpg

Here it is after drilling by Seahorse Fanatic (thanks!) and painted with black Krylon Fusion:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07188.jpg

I figured I would indulge myself spending some of my tax return on lights or a nice tank, but so far I've gotten some great deals and haven't spent much on anything. I'll just have to make up for it when it's time for livestock!

Next post: plumbing.

[Nevin]

Here's the back of the tank with plumbing parts:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07191.jpg

My plan:

Herbie overflow on the left (viewed from the front, not the back as the picture above). I'll make an internal overflow from black acrylic from the top to midway down the back. Return will be on the right.

Plumbing will be as follows, from top to bottom:

Return: bulkhead, 90 elbow, union, check valve, ball valve, pump, strainer/sponge
Overflow: strainer, 90 elbow, bulkhead, 90 elbow, union, gate valve, outlet
Emergency: strainer, 90 elbow, bulkhead, 90 elbow, outlet

I will attach the plumbing to the stand so the glass doesn't bear all the weight.

I don't intend to use the return as the main source of flow in the tank, so I'm thinking of using a Mag 2 for about 200 GPH against 2' head per the Reef Central calculator vs. the Mag 3 for about 300 GPH. I don't have the experience to know what 200 GPH looks like, but I'm guessing more than that would stir up the sand too much and might be hard on the chaeto in my tiny 5.5G sump/refugium. I'll add a Koralia in the display--I have a nano and a 1.

I've never plumbed a tank before, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Nevin]

The last picture was not intended in any way as advocacy for the National Post, whose editorial policy I despise.

I just tried to add up the costs for this build, and came up with almost $500. This does not include everything I have spent on the old setup, but does include the rock, livestock and existing stand to be transferred from the old system. It includes a few items that I will likely sell to recover some money. It also includes upcoming expenses that I am aware of, the Mag 2 and PC actinic bulb.

This figure seems shockingly high to me, given that I have gone with a low-budget, do-it-yourself approach. I know, though, that a basic biocube with stand and the same livestock would be boring and ugly at about the same price.

Regards,
Nevin

[Nevin]

Any opinions on the plumbing layout and Mag 2 vs. 3 before I start putting it together?

I'm not sure if I should be worried about syphon from the return. Is the check valve enough? Would an airline inserted down the return work to bring in air and break syphon if the pump shut down and check valve failed?

By the way, comments about biocubes in a previous post here weren't intended to disparage those who use them. I know some people do amazing things with them, it's just not the way I want to go.

Regards,
Nevin

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Tank is looking good and really coming together. Part of me would argue that the Mag3 would not be too powerful for this setup since I know lots of people with multiple HydorKoralias in their nano. I guess worse comes to worse, if you find the flow too much, you could add another piece of pvc to split the return.

Anthony

[Nevin]

Thanks Anthony. I'm leaning toward 300GPH rather than 200. Looks like I'll probably run the pump submerged. See return pump thread:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=321922#post321922

Sounds like the Mag pumps aren't as bulletproof as I thought, so I might just go for something cheaper. Quietone 1200 would work if I can buy one locally (could get 3 of them for the price of a Mag 3 at drsfostersmith if it weren't for the shipping, taxes, waiting for delivery, etc.) or a Rio 1100.

The plumbing is starting to come together. Some pics:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07235.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07236.jpg

The flex tubing is a waterproof electrical conduit called Liquidtight (about $0.90/ft at Home Depot). Has anyone here used it? Doesn't say anything on it about antibacterial agents added.

Anyone have suggestions on the plumbing before I break out the glue?

Regards,
Nevin

[Nevin]

Slow progress on modifying the stand as I've been obsessed with plumbing. The bowfront poses an interesting woodworking challenge. My first attempt is basically diy plywood--laminating together strips of oak veneer around a curve. Looks like I'll need 6+ plies to get it thick enough. I'm laminating the first 3 plies today to see how it looks.

Picture:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07233.jpg

Hope it works!

[mark]

Looks good.

See why you where thinking about running the pump external with a 175W.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have used mag pumps for returns as well as Quiet One pumps and I personally prefer the Quiet One pumps. They may not last as long as a MAG but are way cheaper, quieter and give off much less heat. I would prefer to replace it every two years than use a MAG pump again. Thats just my experience though.

[Nevin]

GreenSpottedPuffer,

That's good to hear as I was leaning toward the Quietone 1200 as a cheaper option. Do you know where to get them locally?

Thanks,
Nevin

[mseepman]

J&L sells Quiet One's. Not sure about the 1200 but I just bought a 3000 two weeks ago there.

[Nevin]

Not on their website--just the bigger Quietones. Anyone know where to get the 1200 in the Lower Mainland? Sorry if this is a duplicate post--first one didn't show up.

Regards,
Nevin

[saltysurfer]

In my opinion I wouldn't use that liquid tight conduit. It's just a raceway for wires. Its designed to keep water out, not hold it in. The manufacturing process uses oil to form the metal inside to provide mechanical protection for the wires.

[Nevin]

Bought an Eheim 1048 (158 gph) and tried out the plumbing. The first thing I found is that my check valve is cutting the flow in half. The Reef Central calculator I was using refers to a swing-type check valve. The valve I have has a rubber disc which is pushed by water pressure so the water can flow around, and contributes significantly to head loss.

Even without the check valve, the Eheim is adequate for circulation but doesn't contribute much to flow. So I'll be trading in the Eheim for a Mag 3 unless anyone can tell me where to buy a Quietone 1200 or assure me that the Rio 1100 is not crap.

Saltysurfer, are you sure about the Liquidtight? It looks like a white PVC core with grey coating (nylon??) inside and out. Should keep water in as well as out. Definitely not metallic--requires a ground wire for electrical applications. I would prefer something a little more flexible, though.

Regards,
Nevin

[saltysurfer]

Bought an Eheim 1048 (158 gph) and tried out the plumbing. The first thing I found is that my check valve is cutting the flow in half. The Reef Central calculator I was using refers to a swing-type check valve. The valve I have has a rubber disc which is pushed by water pressure so the water can flow around, and contributes significantly to head loss.

Even without the check valve, the Eheim is adequate for circulation but doesn't contribute much to flow. So I'll be trading in the Eheim for a Mag 3 unless anyone can tell me where to buy a Quietone 1200 or assure me that the Rio 1100 is not crap.

Saltysurfer, are you sure about the Liquidtight? It looks like a white PVC core with grey coating (nylon??) inside and out. Should keep water in as well as out. Definitely not metallic--requires a ground wire for electrical applications. I would prefer something a little more flexible, though.

Regards,
Nevin

That conduit should be alright, Some of the flex conduit is metal coated in plastic. Sorry to alarm you. BTW nice tank!

[Nevin]

Traded in the Eheim 1048 for a 1250, which is just right at 300GPH. Still need a swing check valve for 3/4" PVC (thread or slip) if anyone knows where to get one...

Slow progress on the stand, but I'll have to get moving on it if I want to get the tank set up. The curved piece for the front, which I made by laminating 6 plies of oak veneer, is too flimsy. Currently I'm trying to glue some thicker strips of oak on the back. Hope it works!

Regards,
Nevin

[Nevin]

My progress has been very gradual and it's too long since I updated. My stand is done! Well, almost--have to build the light fixture. The bowfront tank presented a real challenge in adapting the stand. The curved front piece is made from 9 separate strips of wood glued together and even though the front layer of veneer bubbled up a little I'm more than happy with the final results.

I found a swing check valve at Ocean Aquatics and I think I have everything I need to plumb it. Oops, except for the sump which broke.

The stand:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07403.jpg

Close-up of the top:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07404.jpg

That's all for now. Hope I can move along a little faster and update soon.

Regards,
Nevin

[Nevin]

Here are a couple of pics with the tank on the stand and plumbing in place. I haven't put water in it yet. Hope it works!

Tank on stand:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07414.jpg

Plumbing (warning: it's not pretty!):
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07412.jpg

I just bought another 5.5G sump.

Regards,
Nevin

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Good progress on this new system. Waiting patiently to see pics of it finally wet:biggrin:

[Nevin]

First leak test tonight. The return plumbing is pretty leaky--I used a few pieces of plumbing intended for sprinklers that seem not to be a perfect fit with the rest of the 3/4" PVC. It's glued well enough that I can't pull it apart, but not well enough to hold water... I have most of the parts I need to redo it, but I'll have to try to drill out a part that's glued into the check valve tailpiece. Though the check valve is a true union type that comes apart, I don't think I can buy just a replacement tailpiece.

The tank picture follows, finally with some water. I'll probably try to bring the sump water level down a bit. As it is, a pump and check valve failure would likely cause an overflow into the stand (which is sealed with silicone), but not onto the floor (which would be a disaster).

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07419.jpg

[Nevin]

Finally, saltwater in the tank! I ripped apart the return plumbing and redid it. Much better now with no leaks. The only issue is the swing check valve--when I cut power to the return pump the flap in the valve jitters back and forth making a loud noise and allowing a significant amount of water through before closing. It also allows a trickle of water through when closed. I think I've read that they're adjustable--would I just tighten the screw(s) holding the flap to make it close quicker? Here is the valve I have:

3/4 true union swing check valve (http://oceanaquatics.com/store/product/796/True-Union-Check-Valve-3-4%22/)

Otherwise I'll have to lower the sump water level, put some plumbing on the return inside the tank to prevent syphon, put an aqualifter on battery backup to compensate or all of the above... I don't want to be too dependent on the check valve but there aren't a lot of other options.

I have put some of my existing live rock and sand, plus some new sand in the tank and will allow to cycle as I'm going out of town for a few days. I don't expect there will be much of a cycle just transferring from the old tank to the new one, will there?

Pictures follow and see my old 10G thread for new pictures as well.

Leak test:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07533.jpg

Plumbing:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07535.jpg

Cycling:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07538.jpg

Any suggestions appreciated as usual.

Regards,
Nevin

[Midknight]

Hey Nevin,
Keep building beautiful stands like that and I may have to invite you over (ok begging on my knees:redface:) to help with my stands.:lol:

[Nevin]

Thanks Midnight! Trouble is, with the amount of time I spend on this stuff I would have to work for about $2/hour to be competitive if I were doing it for anyone else (and they would have to be willing to wait a year or two to get it done!).

Anyone have any thoughts on the check valve?

Regards,
Nevin

[Sebae again]

The thing about check valves is that they require head pressure to make them close. So at 6 inches bellow water height you would have .217 psi pushing down and at 1foot .433 psi . Therefore, the lower the better.

[Midknight]

Thanks Midnight! Trouble is, with the amount of time I spend on this stuff I would have to work for about $2/hour to be competitive if I were doing it for anyone else (and they would have to be willing to wait a year or two to get it done!).

Anyone have any thoughts on the check valve?

Regards,
Nevin

$2/Hr?? Is that all??? be careful someone might take you up on an offer that cheep. :lol:

[Nevin]

It's finally running! I transferred all the livestock and fixed up the sump last night. Found my pom pom crab in the process--glad he's still alive, but I wish he would come out once in a while.

I wasn't able to fix the check valve--no way to move it down lower to get more pressure--but it does seem to consistently close after a few seconds. I dropped the sump water level by an inch to allow an extra margin.

I don't know much about what my urchin needs. Ultimately it will likely go in the refugium. In the interim, would it be better off in the display tank (live rock, no macroalgae) or the refugium (base rock, macroalgae)?

The old 10G tank, nearly empty:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07599.jpg

The new tank in the process of transferring livestock:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07603.jpg

The new sump/refugium:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07605.jpg

I'll take a picture today of the full system in operation--the lights were already off by the time I took pictures.

[Nevin]

Here's a full tank shot after the move (lighting is temporary). Still looking for opinions on whether the urchin would be better in the refugium or the main tank. Also ideas on a second fish--something with interesting behaviour that will get along with Nemo and won't jump. I like shrimp gobies--are there any that wouldn't jump?

Regards,
Nevin

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC07609.jpg

[Nevin]

I finally got a jigsaw (what a pleasure to use!) and found a little time to finish the light fixture. It's custom-built in oak to match the stand, with 175w halide, 18w PC actinic and 2 x .75w moonlights. I gutted a 2 x 9w Coralife fixture for the actinics, already had one moonlight and got a second moonlight and the halide ballasts, reflectors and socket used. No fans (will add if needed), but there's room for hot air to flow around the reflector and out the top vent. Pictures follow. Obviously I'll find a better way to hold it up--probably adjustable pegs in the ends. And I assume it will be mounted lower once the livestock acclimates. Looking forward to getting a clam now that I have enough light!

The tank is looking pretty good as it grows out a bit. I'll get some pictures when the lights are on. On the down side, my 3-year-old daughter is crying because I gave away our urchin (a few weeks ago) and she has now realized that he was her best friend. Ah well...

Guts
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC08316.jpg

Exterior
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC08319.jpg

Moonlights
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC08320.jpg

Actinics
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC08321.jpg

Halide
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC08322.jpg

Full tank
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj151/nmassing/DSC08324.jpg

Regards,
Nevin