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View Full Version : Coral Frags and what makes them *LE*


Jason McK
04-25-2008, 05:50 PM
We have all heard the term LE before. Many people use the term to promote frag sales or describe a special piece they have in their tanks.
But what is the term really mean. Who makes the distinction and should it be a term held in high regard.

I for one have no problem asking high prices for pieces I consider "high end" or displaying above average colouration but I do not believe I have, in all seriousness, called something LE.

Is LE bunk or just another way to classify a priced piece?

christyf5
04-25-2008, 06:00 PM
I think its just another way to generate hype. Granted those pieces that are labelled LE are usually pretty fantastic looking :wink: I don't know about the whole "limited edition" label anyways as after awhile, many people have them through sales/trades and they're not so limited IMO.

tang daddy
04-25-2008, 06:13 PM
Jason as soon as people hear LE they think rare and hard to get, not alot of the bloodline is floating around atleast in my mind. For me I don't really care about the name but more how appealing the coral is and really how it makes me feel everytime I see it. As we progress with sps keeping and the more we collect, we try to get more and more unique pieces. Typically LE pieces demand a bigger $$ value or does it? if everyone had the same LE piece I think prices would drive down making a once rare piece not too rare anymore. Heck I bet a few of us spsers have what we like to think as our own LE pieces. LE,SE is all in the eye of the beholder.

niloc16
04-25-2008, 06:14 PM
i've always thought of LE as being pieces that are extremely slow growing or rarely seen meaning that when they are fragged it is usually 1 maybe 2 frags a year. Also i think wild colonies that become amazing looking are LE because little to no one will have the pieces. thats what i've been taught anyway

Joe Reefer
04-25-2008, 06:59 PM
"Limited Edition" and "Show Piece" are things I don't understand. Why not make some goofy name for it, kinda like how zoos are named.

Snappy
04-25-2008, 08:04 PM
Jason,
Corals that start as "LE" are labled as such because they are a rare piece that is only fragged on a limited basis and often have a waiting list to get one at least initially. Once more people have it and start fragging the pieces themselves making it more available and more common it should loose the "LE" lable.

Lando,
There are some crazy names for sps out there particularily in the States.
Here but a few examples off the top of my head:
Cali tort
purple monster
strawberry lemonade
bubble gum acro
super man monti
poker star monti
Hulk acro
Idaho grape
etc.

Jason McK
04-25-2008, 08:11 PM
Yes I understand what the concept of LE is. My intent was to start a thread dealing with the legitamacy of the term, not just the defenition. Plus there are LE SPS, LPS, and Soft coral. It's not just SPS anymore

J

michika
04-25-2008, 08:23 PM
I think it can be a legitimate term, when dealing with a slow growing piece, but it shouldn't trigger high prices. When I had slow growers I would classify them as LE, but would specify that it was because of their slow growth, I charged the same regardless, $10-20 per frag of about 1"-2".

Jason McK
04-25-2008, 09:07 PM
Ok so as an example I have a Green milli. no one that I know has a green milli like mine it's really green. Do I have the right to say it's a LE green Milli. 50 people would likely say "I have a Green milli" what makes yours LE.

I guess I've sort of answer my own question. LE is in the eye of the buyer.


J

untamed
04-25-2008, 09:51 PM
"LE" means nothing to me as a buyer. In fact, if someone names it like that I might shy away because It feels like I'm being conned. If I like it, I'll pay more for it. This is true regardless what fancy name it has or whether it has LE in front or not.

I have one or two corals that seem to be exceptionally slow growers. If I have a frag of those, I would ask for a higher price because my investment in producing it was so much more. However...if that frag isn't particularly beautiful, I doubt I would achieve that price.

michika
04-25-2008, 09:52 PM
"LE" means nothing to me as a buyer. In fact, if someone names it like that I might shy away because It feels like I'm being conned. If I like it, I'll pay more for it. This is true regardless what fancy name it has or whether it has LE in front or not.

Agreed!

Atomikk
04-25-2008, 11:33 PM
I knew this would come up sometime this year.. great topic for discussion.

Originally, corals are either LE for their slow growth or for their wild harvesting. Of course, they have to be in spectacular colour and shape to be considered in this category.

People that aquire or move a lot of corals, would know which are more common and which aren't. Also, there are a number of people who come to shipment days to unpack these corals. These people usually get to know what comes in and can validate the LE stamp.

Now, as Greg mentioned, the LE stamp is lost over time as these corals are distributed. Its unfortunate, but it is the case.

I am fortunate to be in the hotspot of coral shipments in Canada, so I have a pretty good idea what comes in. I am also very careful when placing this LE tag on my corals, as I know people that abuse it.

Pan
04-26-2008, 12:57 AM
Agreed!
I've been following a few threads on rc about this one. I tend to think as a few on there do. "Rarity in the trade" turned into LE to justify a higher resale value for frags. Someone aquires a pice and wishes to re-coup expenses. Or there is a very colorful morph of a certain type and because no one has ever seen it before it gets dubbed limited. It's also big business in the states. And lets face it there are plenty of people who have the money for these types of things in this hobby. As long as people pay to have a nice things in their tanks there will always be a market. There are many people who don't think before they open their bank book. They just do. If it is rare in the trade fine, many super colorful peices are, but nature doesn't make limited editions. There are plenty more thy are just not available. LE implies a know traceable complete history, which will never ever happen with coral.

Ya Dude
04-26-2008, 04:37 AM
I wonder if in Europe or Asia they have names tagged behind a corals name,like Tyree or who-ever.last time I checked corals came from the ocean

Jason McK
04-26-2008, 05:33 AM
I am fortunate to be in the hotspot of coral shipments in Canada, so I have a pretty good idea what comes in. I am also very careful when placing this LE tag on my corals, as I know people that abuse it.

Atomikk, I'm sorry I do not mean to put you in the spotlight. But I know Ontario and the GTA is a large Reefing community. But I believe what is rare in TO may not be as rare in other metro areas around Canada or the US. For example we have a wholesaler locally that frequently hand pick coral from Bali, Indo, and Clams from Vietnam. Now his distribution chain probable stretches to Calgary at best. While I'm sure there is a similar wholesaler in Ontario the corals will be different. As well BC reefers have in the past brought several orders up from Ultimate frags or the frag farm. This would introduce different genes to BC area while omitting other regions of Canada.
So who really has the right to Globally declare their piece an LE coral.

Or I guess the better question is. Does LE really mean anything in an international or even national market

J

Reefer Rob
04-26-2008, 02:55 PM
I don't think LE really means anything really. I take it to mean that the seller thinks it's nice, that in his opinion it's a limited edition, and they're going to want more money for it :cry: Now if it's a named coral that's different. If some one advertises for instance a "Tyee Retired LE Eddie’s Purple Monster" I can Google or do an RC search to find out if it really is a collector's coral. I can find out that a "Lime In The Sky" has a waiting list almost 2 years long at Frag Farmer's. This adds value to a coral IMO, and will influence my decision way more than "LE"

Jason McK
04-27-2008, 01:37 AM
Great point Rob

J

Atomikk
04-27-2008, 12:59 PM
No worries.

I find it really funny how many stores in the GTA area get the same corals in a 3 week period. Just recently Tonga was a big hit. I found the same montiporas, acroporas, and mushrooms in 5 different stores within that period. What I am getting to is this (in regards to importation of corals from other regions in Canada), eventually most stores get the same types of species. Some might be different in coloration, but for the most part, they will be the same (in GTA or Vancouver, or Illinois). Those who are a part of these shipments, and can see what comes in, would eventually know what is rare or unusual. LE is another way of saying rare or unusual.

You know the reef farmers had to start from somewhere. They too were/are a part of a lot of shipments that are coming into US. So they do have a grasp on what is rare in the hobby.

And, just to be clear, LE is defining corals that are imported and not its rarity in the wild!! I am sure in the wild there is a vast number of its kind. OR, sometimes they are soo deep in the water, that is harder to harvest.

Now there are those people who all they want is top dollar for their corals. Those are the people who wear out the LE stamp. The only thing that you can do, as a buyer, is go by reputation. Buy your LE corals from a reputable seller, and you will know that you are getting a true LE coral.

Atomikk, I'm sorry I do not mean to put you in the spotlight. But I know Ontario and the GTA is a large Reefing community. But I believe what is rare in TO may not be as rare in other metro areas around Canada or the US. For example we have a wholesaler locally that frequently hand pick coral from Bali, Indo, and Clams from Vietnam. Now his distribution chain probable stretches to Calgary at best. While I'm sure there is a similar wholesaler in Ontario the corals will be different. As well BC reefers have in the past brought several orders up from Ultimate frags or the frag farm. This would introduce different genes to BC area while omitting other regions of Canada.
So who really has the right to Globally declare their piece an LE coral.

Or I guess the better question is. Does LE really mean anything in an international or even national market

J

Pan
04-27-2008, 01:27 PM
Limited edition -restricted to a specific number of copies

Rare - Not widely known; especially valued for its uncommonness
or Possibly - Not widely known; especially valued for its uncommonness
or even Not widely distributed

If one is to use LE and Rare interchagealby then one does not have a grasp of the english language, or is modifying meaning to suit taste.
I'm not accusing anyone btw, just offering up my opinion. LE would mean there is ONE or TWO (i would think more would confer another title) sources known of a particular mother colony/frag from that the frags provided are the only ones available anywhere or anyhow. If there is a way to prove records of something being the only mother colony in existence (aquarium trade, not nature) and these are the only available frags from said colony then an LE stamp would be okay. Without the proof if means nothing. If you could document all stages with proof of every step from wild gatering up to reering and fragging then one could easily confer the title of LE. But to do this there would have to be an independent group/agency that is impartial that would monitor. Giving the term LE to a maricultured/aquacultured frag whose history is unknown is pure marketing and strictly a money grab. If you cannot prove there is no other sources available out there then you cannot label LE. But again people pay what they will, even with fish its done. But in fish it is a rare color morph that commands a higher price not a LE Gem tang...a rare gem tang. Even the blue morph of the potters angel is not a LE it's rare. LE sells, it commands a higher price because people let it. No one questions the term because people who can afford the prices really, in all likelyhood could care less.