Seachem Reef Complete

[Samw]

I've been trying out a Calcium additive since January called Reef Complete. Before I started using it, my Calcium level was at about 350.

I have been using Reef Complete as directed and I tested my Calcium levels today about 2.5 months later. With my Salifert testkit, I tested twice and the results were off the scale over 500+. I tested with my Hagen testkit twice and it shows a value of about 570.

I can conclude that this product works as advertised in my tank.

I don't have an Alk testkit so I don't know what effects on Alk this had. I will cut back on my Reef Complete dosage since it seems that I am overdosing at the moment. I will test my Alk next week after I buy a testkit and if it is low, I'll try another additive to bring Alk back up

Reef Complete also adds Magnesium and Strontium to the tank although I don't have test kits for those.


PS. Titus, can we change this forum name to be Product Review instead of Equipment Review?

http://www.seachem.com/en_products/product_pages/images/full_size/0336_reef_cmplte.jpg

[Troy F]

Sam, It would be worth your while to buy a alkalinity test kit. I'd be surprised if your alkalinity isn't really low. My suspicion is that your Ca test is out of whack for some reason, maybe something in Reef Complete confuses the regent in some way. My understanding is that Ca readings over 500ppm are suspect.

[Samw]

thanks. I'll look into it. I think its possible to have high calcium and low alk.

I found a good article for solving calcium/alk problems.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

Looks like I'm in Zone 4. After testing for Alk, if its less than 4 (most likely), I'll be adding Alk supplements to put me in Zone 1. Then let precipitation bring me back to the right levels.

[Anonymous]

Sam, I just queried Randy Holmes-Farley on how to get my Alk & CA up
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153107. And he said to avoid the liquid becuase it has polygluconates.
It is unteresting on learning how alk & CA are intermixed (and so complex!).

[Samw]

Hi Guest Jeanna. Thanks for the link. Randy only says that he doesn't like to use Seachem Reef Calcium because he doesn't know where the polygluconate goes and how it affects alk and that its not natural. He doesn't really say its a bad thing.

Reef Complete which I am using however, is a blend of ionic calcium which I guess isn't polygluconate (whatever that means). Does anyone know if it is a bad additive? I haven't found anything to that effect on the Web.

Here's a semi-interesting buyer's guide for Calcium additives:

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=2

[steve-s]

Samw,

What do you currently use to maintain the alkalinity in the water? With the constant additions of calcium, alkalinity will naturally be forced down unless it is maintained in equal additions. That along with the proper maintenance of magnesium will keep them all in solution together.

True, ionic compounds can help but I do find that they may cause imbalances in larger systems depending on bio-load.

The other thing you need to be concerned about is the constant addition of the strontium and magnesium. Although the Reef Complete is balanced going in, the calcerous animals in the tank will not use them up in the same balanced fashion. The rates of consumption will vary from week to week and will need to be tweeked on occation to keep them in line. If strontium becomes too high (above 267ppm) most test kits are not sensitive enough to tell the difference between the two ions and instead add them together.

Cheers
Steve

[christyf5]

Taken from http://www.aquariacentral.com/articles/calcium.shtml

Polygluconate Calcium:
This calcium additive is typically purchased in the form of a liquid that is poured into the aquarium. The appropriate dose is determined based on aquarium gallonage, then poured into the aquarium. The most prominent manufacturer of this product is Seachem and is sold under the name Reef Calcium. The advantage of this method of addition is the ease of use. It can be measured and poured with speed and ease. It will not affect pH or alkalinity.

The disadvantages include reports that this method of calcium addition is best used for maintenance, not increasing calcium, as the amounts of calcium that can safely be introduced are relatively small. This type of calcium is "chelated"; meaning that the calcium is released in a time released formulation. Thus, typically other methods must be utilized to increase calcium levels. Additionally, due to its chelated formulation, special test kits must be used to measure the aquarium calcium levels. False readings will be obtained with typical calcium test kits. Finally, it has been anecdotally reported that the use of polygluconate calcium can cause problem algae blooms. The manufacturer denies this is a possibility, and many hobbyists report using the product without problem algae blooms.



I was under the impression that polygluconate was a sugar however seachem (http://www.seachem.com/en_support/support_faq.html) disputes this:

Gluconate is a carbohydrate; fish foods also contain carbohydrates, either directly or within cellular DNA/RNA (DNA and RNA both contain cyclic carbohydrates (5 membered furanose rings) as their backbone). So the risk of a problem from Reef Calcium™ is equivalent to the risk from using fish food. The key here is that Reef Calcium™ is not being added in excess to what the tank can support. When the calcium is utilized the carbon component is also necessarily utilized and will not build up. If you overfeed your fish you're going to cause a problem, and if your overuse Reef Calcium™ you can run into a similar problem.


They then go on to say that because the calcium is complexed with polygluconate its charge is neutralized and the complex can be passively transported across coral cell membranes and the coral doesn't have to work as hard to get the calcium.

I dunno. I'd be tempted to ask why, if calcium-polygluconate complexes are so fabulous, isn't everyone else using them except seachem??

Christy :)

[Samw]

Samw,

What do you currently use to maintain the alkalinity in the water? With the constant additions of calcium, alkalinity will naturally be forced down unless it is maintained in equal additions. That along with the proper maintenance of magnesium will keep them all in solution together.




I'm going to use Seachem Reef Carbonate

[steve-s]

I would be interested in your progress with the Reef Carbonate. I have used the liquid carbonate products myself and have found them to be very lacking when it comes to raising alkalinty any significant amount if you are trying to remedy a problem.

They can and are fine for maintaining levels that are already balanced though.

FYI, not sure if you know this but make sure you never add a carbonate product at the same time or near the same time as a product that contains magnesium. If added to closely timewise, they will form Magnesium Carbonate and do nothing for the alkalinity. They are best dosed several hours apart.

Cheers
Steve

[Samw]

Yes, I'll post again with all the before and after figures. Thanks for the tip on not dosing in conjunction with Magnesium. The Reef Complete bottle suggests alternating different days between Reef Complete and Reef Carbonate.

The bottle actually warned also against overdosing Calcium as it could lower Alk. I just happened not to realize that I was overdosing due to infrequent Calcium testing.

[BCOrchidGuy]

The bottle of reef Complete actually says on it, Ca levels above 400mg/L is NOT recommended. The bottle also recommends using Reef Carbonate or Reef builder in conjunction with the Reef Complete. "Reef Carbonate is a concentrated (4,000 mg/L) optimized blened of carbonate and bicarbonate salts designed to restore and maintain alkalinity in the reef aquarium.""Used as directed, Reef Carbonate will no deplete calcium, magnesium or strongtium which usually tent to precipitate with increasing alkalinity."

You may want to buy a SeaChem Ca test kit as it does measure all types of calcium, including calcium gluconate.

[Samw]

Yes, that's what my bottle says. I really wasn't trying to go over 500. I just didn't test for Calcium regularly and kept dosing and dosing thinking that my Calcium was being used up. My mistake. I haven't been adding any polygluconates into my tank though (which would be the Seachem Reef Calcium product). Do you think the SeaChem Ca kit will give me more accurate results than the other 2 kits? I could try it I suppose. Wouldn't hurt.

[Canadian Man]

I would be interested in your progress with the Reef Carbonate. I have used the liquid carbonate products myself and have found them to be very lacking when it comes to raising alkalinty any significant amount if you are trying to remedy a problem.

They can and are fine for maintaining levels that are already balanced though.

FYI, not sure if you know this but make sure you never add a carbonate product at the same time or near the same time as a product that contains magnesium. If added to closely timewise, they will form Magnesium Carbonate and do nothing for the alkalinity. They are best dosed several hours apart.

Cheers
Steve

Good old baking soda works wonders for raising alk. Just add it slowly and your fine.