Vortech in a smallish cube

[kwirky]

So I purchased the vortech for my 24x24x18H tank. It was based on a sort of cost/feature ratio that seemed pretty good. The pump outputs 3000gph and has a wavemaker with some half decent features built in. it has flow control and a 10 minute feed mode. The fact it takes up almost NO room in the tank was a big plus.

So far the impression has been good. The features are pretty much how I expected them to work and the pump's performance is quite strong. It takes up very little room in the tank which is a bonus because the tank's pretty small as it is. It still allows for a nice "open" look to the tank even though there's the capability of a 66x turnover :D.

The pump's build is appears better than a koralia and a seio which are the two other "high flow" pumps I've had experience with.

Setting up the single pump was quite easy. I got the propeller assembly to stick on the first try but the 2nd time I had problems. After a thorough read through the manual I realized I have to let ALL the air escape from the propeller module before attaching it to the glass. This solved the problem.

The wavemaking modes are not bad. It has the following modes:


always on
tidepool random
reefcrest random
pulse mode


There are two buttons and a control knob. On always on you turn the control knob to adjust the pump's flow. On tidepool and reefcrest random the knob controls the pump's maximum flow. On manual pulse mode the knob works in combination with the "set" button. Pulse mode works like this:

you press the set button to toggle between pump speed and pulse frequency. Then you turn the knob to adjust the pulse speed or pulse frequency according to the "set" mode you're in. If the light's on solid then you're in pump speed setting. If the light's pulsing then you're changing the pulsation and you can notice your change right away as you play with the knob.

A fellow reefer told me they absolutely loved the reefcrest random mode but I find for my little tank the pulse mode works better. I believe this is also because I only have one pump and not two. You can get more pumps and run them either synchronously or asynchronously. Down the road if I'm feeling like splurging again I could possibly get another pump and run them asynchronously and get the water moving in both directions.

In the little tank, though, wavemaking was definately possible when using the manual pulse mode. I had to throttle the power to about 70% and tweak the pulse to about 3/4 second intervals to get the waves going. It actually made a single wave that would wrap around the tank walls. Pretty neat :) In the end I had to end the wavemaking because the tank only has 6mm side panes and I don't want to burst a seam.

I have a video of the wavemaking in action but my internet's REAL flakey tonight so youtube uploading's out of the question. I'll post the video tomorrow if the internet's better.

So after the 2nd evening of playing with it I have to say it's a pretty good product and worth the money. If you want to more control of your waterflow I think it's the most economical way to do so even for a small tank such as this. I'll post my thoughts on the vortech in the future too if I run into problems or find something I like about it I never noticed before.

[Pan]

Nice write up.
I was thinking of vortechs but i need a few and cost was a factor :(

[Der_Iron_Chef]

May I ask, Sean, what's the cost of the new Vortechs?

Nice review, btw....sounds like something to consider down the road (after tax refund :))

[spikehs]

whats the noise level like on them? I've always wanted to get one, but heard they can be noisey?

[kwirky]

May I ask, Sean, what's the cost of the new Vortechs?

Nice review, btw....sounds like something to consider down the road (after tax refund :))

thanks :)

they cost round $400. Some places sell for $440

whats the noise level like on them? I've always wanted to get one, but heard they can be noisey?

they make a hell of a noise while you're aligning the propeller with the magnet driver but once they're aligned that noise is gone. The motor itself makes this whirring noise that's more noticeable at low speeds than high speeds but that depends on which sound frequencies annoy you. Once all the other tank equipment was turned on it's only really the manual pulse mode that seems noisy because it has a constant throttle up and down that's more noticable than the random modes. The random modes blend in with the rest of the equipments' noises.

[digital-audiophile]

Sweet review. I looked at the vortechs too but just couldn't bring myself to the cost. I would need 2x so it adds up a bit. Down the road though I would really consider adding a pair.

Do you get any "sloshing" sounds in the herbie with the wave motion on?

[kwirky]

Sweet review. I looked at the vortechs too but just couldn't bring myself to the cost. I would need 2x so it adds up a bit. Down the road though I would really consider adding a pair.

Do you get any "sloshing" sounds in the herbie with the wave motion on?

no sloshing sounds. I have the tubes in the overflow all the way up so that there's not much of a waterfall going into the overflow. Yeah I agree on the cost of 2 being a little high. I'm all excited about the potential of adding a second one in antisync mode but alas I don't have that much munnies.

here's a video of me playing with the pump while I was waiting for the salt to mix in the aquarium:
www.kwirky88.com/video/wavemaker.wmv (http://www.kwirky88.com/video/wavemaker.wmv)

[Delphinus]

I'd love to hear more about what the various modes actually do? Ie., what's reef crest mode and what's tidepool mode?

Great review BTW, thanks for posting such a detailed writeup. My biggest complaint, or frustration if you will (and this is not a knock on the stores, I realize they can't do everything), is that it's really hard to visualize what these products will do for your setup until you've gone and bought one and tried it on your tank, and although the cost is not unreasonable considering what you get, it's still daunting when you don't know ahead of time what you're getting yourself into.

One comment regarding the cost of multiple units - part of the cost is the controller - it seems to me that the incremental cost for additional propellers must be less than say a completely linear increase? Ie., two props and one controller would surely not be 2x$400? Considering the cost of Tunzes nowadays, the Vortechs don't seem all that pricey an alternative anymore (seems to me a few years ago they were the pricier, now maybe due to the $Cdn/USD they're not as bad?)

[kwirky]

I'd love to hear more about what the various modes actually do? Ie., what's reef crest mode and what's tidepool mode?

this is from the manual:
http://www.kwirky88.com/images/aquarium/modecomparison.jpg

I think if you had another unit in antisynch then when one pump's at 20% the other'd be at 80% and vice versa.

One comment regarding the cost of multiple units - part of the cost is the controller - it seems to me that the incremental cost for additional propellers must be less than say a completely linear increase? Ie., two props and one controller would surely not be 2x$400?

yeah two units would run 2 x $400 because the wavemaker controllers are included whether you like it or not. That's cheaper than two tunze turbelle stream 6101's and a multicontroller which would run about $1000 for equivelent flow (600-3000 gph on the 6101). I think the tunze multicontroller has more automatic flow features though. The vortechs have the benefit of size. They take up MUCH less tank space than turbelle streams.

Some people on reefcentral complain of having to replace the magnet on their vortech in about a year and a half which runs about $40 directly from the manufacturer. Some people don't mind some do. I don't know my thoughts on that cuz I don't have to replace mine yet :)

btw my fiance left for the day I'm preferring reef crest random mode now instead of manual pulse because today I've been cleaning off the rock. I've found it's been working better at keeping detritus water born.

My biggest complaint, or frustration if you will (and this is not a knock on the stores, I realize they can't do everything), is that it's really hard to visualize what these products will do for your setup until you've gone and bought one and tried it on your tank...

on a side note I agree with you. I worked at radioshack where everything had to be "powered up" but it seems that's not the case for the aquarium industry. The other day was the first time I saw a tunze wavebox working at Wai's and gave me more of an urge to plunge into wavemaking myself. From the stores' perspective about 10-15 units have to be sold to make up for the loss of the single unit put on display. That's before any profit would be made too. Then another model will come out once the store's sold about 20 and the new one would have to be put on display. When I told dennis I'm getting one the other evening he said "they're a LOT of money sean are you SURE you want to buy it? *smiling*". He's only seen videos and heard second hand from people what they do but he had never seen one first hand.

I figured I'd write a thorough review of it because I saw a fair bit of hype on the product from reefcentral and I know some other people are humming n hawing over the price and wondering if it's really worth it. Take all this with a grain of salt though because like i said earlier all I've experienced for powerheads otherwise are maxijets, seios and koralias. Of all those powerheads my favorite is the maxijet but that's for their utility value :)

[digital-audiophile]

Isn't there a single cortech running on the tank in the back of the store?

[kwirky]

Isn't there a single cortech running on the tank in the back of the store?

that's the old model, the non-wireless/non-wavemaker unit. They don't make the MP40 any more and it's been replaced with the MP40W. Dennis and albert tried to put the wireless upgrade on it but it didn't work for some reason.

[digital-audiophile]

Damnit! Why did I have to watch your video! Now I want one.. or a couple!

[ElGuappo]

That does look pretty incredible.

Can you post a pick of the actual unit PLS. cant get a good look in the vid

[Delphinus]

I must be dense but I can't find the link to the video? I checked your other thread too and seemed to overlook it. Can you repost it in here?

Hmmm, see the one thing for me is you keep comparing these to just straight Tunzes and I keep comparing it to a Tunze wavebox. Cost wise the wavebox is more expensive, but a straight Tunze can at least be controlled by tank controllers as well as their own controllers, and is aimable. Although maybe the fact that the Vortech isn't aimable isn't a big deal, but to me I guess I just can't wrap my head around the fact that I can't just fine tune the direction.

I was somehow thinking I'd look into one of these Vortech's as a substitute for a wavebox (I just can't get over the "big black box in a tank corner" aesthetic of those .. as much as I love the effect they give) but still go with Tunzes on Wavysea's elsewhere in the tank. Although ... I dunno, I guess until I see said video I should keep an open mind! :)

[victornguyen]

Good Review Sean. I have 2 on my tank plus the Tunze wave box. The Vortechs are powerful and create havoc in my tank. I had to turn both of them down to 60% of their potential otherwise my corals would get banged up. If I could I would get one more to replace my wave box but no space to put one more with my overflows on both sides.

[dreef]

Here it is Tony



here's a video of me playing with the pump while I was waiting for the salt to mix in the aquarium:
www.kwirky88.com/video/wavemaker.wmv

[Delphinus]

Thanks D, dunno why I couldn't just see it when I was looking for it. :redface:

[kwirky]

Hmmm, see the one thing for me is you keep comparing these to just straight Tunzes and I keep comparing it to a Tunze wavebox.
... (I just can't get over the "big black box in a tank corner" aesthetic of those .. as much as I love the effect they give)

I compared them to tunze streams because for my own tank a wavebox is out of the question because of it's small size. It would take up like 15% of the tank. So for my own tank the choice was between the tunzes and the vortech.

As for running the tunzes on an AC wave controller you then lose the ability to throttle the pumps and other things. Not as many features as the tunze single controller or the multi controller.

And yeah I've seen videos of tunzes on a wavy sea but again it would be too large for my tank and would block probably 25% of the tank surface unfortunately. Hence the thread title "vortech in a smallish cube" ;) If I had a larger tank, like if I were ever to set up another 120g, I would be debating between a multi-vortech system or a couple tunzes on wavyseas. or both if I had the cash :D

[Delphinus]

Sorry, I realize that my questions are I guess out of context for a small cube which is what you were going for with your review, it's just that you were a convenient outlet for me to pose MY questions about the product. ;) Be patient, I have no life and I have no friends and now you are the ONLY person I know (who speaks to me anyhow) who has one of these, so you're now the "expert on all things Vortech" in my world. :p

[digital-audiophile]

I youtubed some vids last night to.. and I am starting to wonder if I would really need 2 units in a 90G one on the side might just be enough.. hmmmm....

[ElGuappo]

Sorry, I realize that my questions are I guess out of context for a small cube which is what you were going for with your review, it's just that you were a convenient outlet for me to pose MY questions about the product. ;) Be patient, I have no life and I have no friends and now you are the ONLY person I know (who speaks to me anyhow) who has one of these, so you're now the "expert on all things Vortech" in my world. :p


I found your ranting quite helpful i was totaly unaware that you could not aim these. its a bit of a big deal for me as i have an even smaller tank.

Sean working at an lfs must give you all kinds of perspective on things sich as this.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

You can't REALLY *aim* the tunze waveboxes either....but I think one of the draws of the (new) Vortech is its wavemaking capability. And apparently this works so well that you don't really need to aim it.

Just speaking from what I've read...no personal experience here :)

[ElGuappo]

And apparently this works so well that you don't really need to aim it.

Just speaking from what I've read...no personal experience here :)

ya i noticed in the vid that ther probably wouldnt need to be any other PHs in a tank with this runing.

If sean would be so kind as to take another vid with something in the tank to show the flow that would be MUCH appreciated. even if it was just a dose of purple up or sumething so the curren could be veiwed.

[kwirky]

You can't REALLY *aim* the tunze waveboxes either....but I think one of the draws of the (new) Vortech is its wavemaking capability. And apparently this works so well that you don't really need to aim it.

Just speaking from what I've read...no personal experience here :)

you know what I never even thought about that. With any other powerheads I'm constantly playing with their position and direction. I never even thought about direction with my vortech until you mentioned it because as soon as the rock was in the tank I was satisfied with the water flow and direction.

ya i noticed in the vid that ther probably wouldnt need to be any other PHs in a tank with this runing.

If sean would be so kind as to take another vid with something in the tank to show the flow that would be MUCH appreciated. even if it was just a dose of purple up or sumething so the curren could be veiwed.

here's another video that should show the flow better (40mb 1800kbps windows media video):
http://www.kwirky88.com/video/wavemaker05.wmv

Sean working at an lfs must give you all kinds of perspective on things sich as this.

I'm usually too busy bagging fish or changing water to learn anything. I try to squeeze info out of some of the regulars at the store who run nice systems. Most of my "product knowledge" has to be learned at home or during rare moments of slowness where nothing else needs to be done. :) When I am learning stuff it's usually for the benefit of my own tank. I consider myself a hobbyist before an employee.

I youtubed some vids last night to.. and I am starting to wonder if I would really need 2 units in a 90G one on the side might just be enough.. hmmmm....

you'll probably want another one though ;). I want another one already lol but I'll have to wait a while. I started the nano tank because it was SUPPOSED to be cheaper than running the 120g tank again lol. But I keep thinking of the potential of 2 units on reef crest random mode in antisync. There's random movement but some areas of the tank have more laminar flow than random flow. That's mostly in the outer regions of the tank where the flow is wrapping along the glass instead of through the rocks.

[Delphinus]

Thanks for the new video Sean.

It looks like a great unit. For sure it looks like you wouldn't need anything else for flow in your tank.

So, if each unit comes with a controller of its own, how does one determine which one is the "base unit" when you have multiple units?

I do love the stealthy aspect of it. See, what Drew said about the waveboxes not being aimable is why I was thinking it was a question of "Vortech versus wavebox" not "Vortech versus streams". But this is clearly more versatile than a wavebox on its own AND it's cheaper than a wavebox.

[kwirky]

Thanks for the new video Sean.

It looks like a great unit. For sure it looks like you wouldn't need anything else for flow in your tank.

So, if each unit comes with a controller of its own, how does one determine which one is the "base unit" when you have multiple units?

I do love the stealthy aspect of it. See, what Drew said about the waveboxes not being aimable is why I was thinking it was a question of "Vortech versus wavebox" not "Vortech versus streams". But this is clearly more versatile than a wavebox on its own AND it's cheaper than a wavebox.

there's a holding of buttons combination you enter to change the pumps between master and slave and then sync/antisync.

As for making real waves with the single unit I don't know how it'd work on a larger tank with only one. But wavemaking is a gimick I think compared to random water flow. Reefs don't experience "waves," they experience the random water flow swirling around the corals n such. I think areas in nature that have actual waves are those macroalgae reefs. I saw one mimicked at the vancouver aquarium a while ago that was probably using one of those gravity powered wavemakers you can DIY. It had macroalgae waving back & forth, no coral.

buying two vortechs would be more expensive than a wavebox but I predict it'd provide better flow than a single wavebox. When looking at a wavebox in action it seemed like the water wasn't really getting anywhere, just back & forth. The reef crest random mode or lagoon random mode would get the water places.

And waves aren't good for the tank, structurally. A wavebox and a vortech are capable of making extreme waves like you see in youtube videos. I asked gary (the contractor who built my tank) about using a wavemaker and he immediatly gave me a big fat no :). Aghast is how I could describe his answer lol. He said even if the tank were built with 10mm glass he'd rather it not be done. He said lots of random turbulent flow would be ok on the tank.

those are the reasons I was comparing it to the streams on a controller rather than a wavebox. Or even a stream on a wavysea. That'd be the ultimate but the most expensive (and bulkiest) I believe.

Wai's has a wavebox setup if you're in calgary and want to see one in action yourself. I was nowhere near impressed with as I am with the vortech. I saw another one in action at a reefer's house like a year ago. He had it cranked up crazy high and lots of his corals reacted poorly to it.

[Delphinus]

Thanks, I realize that, but it's OK - I already have 2 ready to go. Like I said earlier though it's my frustration that there aren't displays where you can go and see and compare each in person that makes preguessing beforehand what is the better choice for you somewhat difficult. If I could have seen both in person I might have made a different choice in how to spend the investment.

I kind of agree, kind of disagree that waves are a gimmick. I would put it as, water flow is just the most important aspect of modeling the biotope. The whoosh whoosh back and forth effect is a nice aesthetic but the more important part of the equation is the dispersion of the flow and the distribution. When Rob Toonen came to town a few years back I had a great conversation with him about water movement. (I'm quoting him now because I don't have any references handy, sorry), he told me that water movement from opposing directions (as opposed to a static flow condition) can influence coral growth by as much as ten times. That's not insignificant, and if you think about it, it makes sense that a reef doesn't see water coming in the same direction 100% of the time.

So I think it depends on how you're using it and why.

At any rate, I keep trying to say that I think the Vortech is a good unit and it feels like you keep trying to argue with me. :p I don't get it. So, I guess I'll just stop playing now. You're right ... um .. whatever it is you're trying to say, you're right, and I'm wrong. Peace out. :mrgreen: (J/K - note the smileys. I like the Vortech, I'm sort of second guessing my choices now is all.)

[kwirky]

I'm sorry if I sounded argumentative tony. unfortunately typed text doesn't work as well as face to face and online conversations suffers because of it. call the previous post ranting/thinking aloud :). I respect you and your experience, really I do.

[Delphinus]

Ditto :) (Sorry, I edited my post to show that I am just playing around here, but I was slow on the draw so you might have missed the edits - sorry.)

I am excited for the effect it has on your tank. It really looks like a great investment.

[ElGuappo]

I'm sorry if I sounded argumentative tony. unfortunately typed text doesn't work as well as face to face and online conversations suffers because of it. call the previous post ranting/thinking aloud :). I respect you and your experience, really I do.

Ya its hard to get the feeling for tone and sarcasm. but what can you do.:mrgreen:

[quote]I'm usually too busy bagging fish or changing water to learn anything. I try to squeeze info out of some of the regulars at the store who run nice systems. Most of my "product knowledge" has to be learned at home or during rare moments of slowness where nothing else needs to be done. When I am learning stuff it's usually for the benefit of my own tank. I consider myself a hobbyist before an employee.[quote]

Good call on this account hobbiest first.

[lastlight]

in the video when the lights on the controller light up i assume this is when the pump is pumping. you can REALLY hear the pulses. would one of these in my livingroom be annoying? I didn't think these things were so loud you could hear each pulse?

I'm looking at one to center on the back wall of a 30x30x18 cube...

Thanks,

Brett

[kwirky]

in the video when the lights on the controller light up i assume this is when the pump is pumping. you can REALLY hear the pulses. would one of these in my livingroom be annoying? I didn't think these things were so loud you could hear each pulse?

I'm looking at one to center on the back wall of a 30x30x18 cube...

Thanks,

Brett

in the first video the pulsing noise is very noticable because none of the other equipment is on. in the second video you hear it when the camera's RIGHT up to the powerhead. I don't hear the vortech unless I listen for it because of all the other equipment running and the sound of the water flow through the overflow box. It's been getting quieter with time too. If you have lots of super silent equipment (like bubbleking skimmer, reefflo pump, herbie overflow, etc etc) then you'll probably notice the vortech. Otherwise if you're running a mag for the sump, a euroreef or the likes protein skimmer, standpipe overflow, then you probably won't notice it.

yeah and no worries tony.

[digital-audiophile]

Sean, so a couple weeks in are you still happy with the unit?

I wa sin the store this morning and picked one up :) So far I do like it, but I will still need to compliment with a powerheads.. allthough not as many as I have now. A nother unit will be in the fututre works for me.. but the wallet is still smarting today.. for what's in the box the pricetag is up there :p

[kwirky]

yeah after this time no gripes yet. I like the amount of flow I get. Yeah it's a little pricey but worth it in the long run I think. Now I've gotta start saving up for some actual coral lol. Finals have hit me really hard financially this year, having to take some time off. My tank's going to fall behind schedule because of it. But yeah the pump was worth it.

[digital-audiophile]

Cool. You do get a great deal more flow in the smaller tank though with the one unit. How do you find the noise? It's a litle bit louder than I had expected?

[kwirky]

ok I think I had a defective unit from the get go. The whirring noise has changed into a constant clacking noise. Soaking the prop unit in vinegar didn't fix it. I'm going to exchange it on the weekend hopefully if one's still in stock.

Now that i've had it for over a month I can say even though it needs an exchange I really like the unit. It's out of sight and produces a LOT of good flow. I run it on reef crest random full time full power.

edit:problem fixed lol. I realized I had it on the wrong glass thickness setting. I set it to 1/4" when I have 3/8" glass. duh! So it still whirrs but the clacking's gone.

[Oscar]

Kwirky: Thanks for the great review and discussion on this unit. I am having a serious detritus problem which I blame on my aquascaping and poor flow.

How is the unit hangin in there?