complex FTOTM's

[kwirky]

It seems most "FTOTM"s from advanced aquarist and reefkeeping.org are super complex. Can anyone think of any awesome SPS tanks that are much simpler? I mean without wavemakers, calcium reactors, zeovit, combination lighting, etc etc. Is it possible or is keeping super bright SPS destined for gadgetry?

[24storm]

Have you seen Gregs (snappy). It is not that complex. It is very impressive and i think the only thing he has on your list is he doses poly labs. No reactor no Zeovit No wave maker.

Correct me if I'm wrong Greg.

Keith

[mseepman]

I agree....I just saw Greg's tank in person last weekend, it was awesome to behold and he follows the old KIS (keep it simple) methods it seems. I couldn't believe that he doesn't have a calcium reactor....

[Myka]

I agree....I just saw Greg's tank in person last weekend, it was awesome to behold and he follows the old KIS (keep it simple) methods it seems. I couldn't believe that he doesn't have a calcium reactor....

*ahem That method would be called "KISS" (keep it simple stupid). :lol:

I've seen the odd TOTM here and there that was a lot simpler, but you don't see them often. I've seen a couple simple nanos make TOTM too.

[justinl]

I recall one nano system that made RC TOTM that was based around a very simple idea. A huge sump. It was just a densely packed (and gorgeous) display with a relatively large sump. can't remember who or when though.

[kwirky]

I keep meaning to go see greg's tank. school's been SO busy lol.

[Delphinus]

You want my honest opinion? I think calcium reactors are great but they are an idea whose time peaked about say 3-4 years ago. I still run a calcium reactor because I have one, and plan to run one for a while to come (hey, it's paid for, it does the job). But ... if I had absolutely nothing and was looking for getting something, I would skip the reactor and just go straight to an automated Balling (or 2-part, or 3-part) solution. Two or three peristaltic pumps (since you don't need the lab grade controllable flowrate for this), some timers, and away we go - and you have a solution that is likely superior to a calcium reactor, and by far cheaper in the long run. AND, for what it's worth, has a smaller carbon footprint.

My prediction is that reactors will be something we see less of in the future, and more Balling or just simple 2-part/3-part dosings.

I'm not sure that I agree that a wavebox makes a system "more complicated or complex". It's a water movement device, nothing more. You have to have something that moves water ... waveboxes make for a nice effect in a long enough tank but aren't a prerequisite for an SPS tank by any stretch. However what IS a prerequisite is adequate flow, which is, IMO, something that tends to be underestimated by many in the "quest" for an SPS tank. (I include myself in that broad paintbrush stroke .. I have SPS in my 75 and I feel the flow is wholly inadequate .. however I hope to not have that issue in my 280g .. whenever I can manage to finish that little ridiculous long standing project .. let's not go there :redface: ).

Greg might not have a "wavebox", but he does have appropriate flow conditions in his tank. And there is a wave like effect happening in his tank. When it comes down to it, flow is probably the most important aspect to a tank like this (lighting and nutrient management and parameter levels do count as very close seconds though). I don't know what his total volume turnover is but it has to be fairly significant.

Zeovit, compound lighting .. ah .. well ... no, none of it is specifically mandatory but the end results that they provide kind of are. I don't mean to say that a dosing system like Zeovit or Polyplaps is mandatory, it's just a tool in the arsenal against nutrient buildup. If you can manage it otherwise, then you're set. However one nice thing about those systems is that they have the side effect of feeding the corals AND making a low nutrient system. So, no it's not mandatory, but boy is it addictive when you see what you can achieve with it.

Anyhow there's my $0.02 on this :)

[Snappy]

24stormHave you seen Gregs (snappy). It is not that complex. It is very impressive and i think the only thing he has on your list is he doses poly labs. No reactor no Zeovit No wave maker.

Correct me if I'm wrong Greg.

Keith
Thanks Keith and you are correct, my set-up is embarrassingly simple.
mseepmanI agree....I just saw Greg's tank in person last weekend, it was awesome to behold and he follows the old KIS (keep it simple) methods it seems. I couldn't believe that he doesn't have a calcium reactor....
Thank you Mark, yes I am a "kiss" kind of guy. Mostly because I'm too dumb for complicated stuff.:wink:
kwirkyI keep meaning to go see greg's tank. school's been SO busy lol.
Sean you are welcome any time.
Greg might not have a "wavebox", but he does have appropriate flow conditions in his tank. And there is a wave like effect happening in his tank. When it comes down to it, flow is probably the most important aspect to a tank like this (lighting and nutrient management and parameter levels do count as very close seconds though). I don't know what his total volume turnover is but it has to be fairly significant.

Zeovit, compound lighting .. ah .. well ... no, none of it is specifically mandatory but the end results that they provide kind of are. I don't mean to say that a dosing system like Zeovit or Polyplaps is mandatory, it's just a tool in the arsenal against nutrient buildup. If you can manage it otherwise, then you're set. However one nice thing about those systems is that they have the side effect of feeding the corals AND making a low nutrient system. So, no it's not mandatory, but boy is it addictive when you see what you can achieve with it.

Tony, yes I do have reasonable flow however with a heavily stocked sps tank it needs to be upgraded and tweeked at least every 6 months to a year as the corals grow and block flow, creating some "low flow" areas. This is where a wave box would be handy as even with some blockage there is still the surge of water movement. Dosing "reef-resh" allows me to stock on the heavy side but keep the nitrates lower. Having a large over-rated skimmer doesn't hurt either. I am actually considering a calcium reactor soon so things will be more automated. The drawback to the dosing pumps is mineral build up causing a little more maintenance and something needs to be installed into the dosing buckets to keep things stirred and in solution. There are ways around this though so I haven't decided for sure which way I am going to go. The other thing with automated dosing is I would make a min of 5 gallons at a time so it would require a fair bit more space than a reactor. For dosing right now what I do (talk about simple) is I take two 500 ml cups set on a rack over my sump with a pin hole in the bottom's and each day fill up one with ca solution and one with alk and they dose the tank drop by drop over several hours.

Long story short, are the "gadgets" necessary? no. Convenient? yes.

Sean you mentioned TOTM for Advanced Aquarist & Reef Keeping online magazines in your first post. Ironically at the moment my tank is actually being featured in AA however I think it unlikely RC(reef keeping) would give me the same invitation. They had actually sent me a notice that my tank was nominated there but I think it will go nowhere. They are very big on the "high end" tanks with more equipment than I use. Since they are a world class site I think it is only right they should concentrate on what can be achieved with the proper equipment and help others aspire to new heights. I'm not sure they need to make room for low tech tanks when they have so many awesome tanks from around the world to choose from.

Sean, sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread but since my tank came up I thought I would jump in. Anyway thanks for the kindness from those that posted nice things about my humble set up.
All the best,
Cheers

[Jaws]

I think it comes down to what Greg said about automation. I don't think anyone can contest that it's possible to keep a highend system without overloading it with equipment but your time investment will definitely be a lot greater going this route. It usually takes a year or more I've found before you're able to find YOUR balance between your time and automated equipment designed to make your life easier. There are three main components I can think of off the top of my head that I wouldn't skimp on and that's flow, lighting, and skimming, but even those are debatable. In short, it's more than possible but it involves more husbandry in my opinion. Just make sure you've got the time because nobody wants to waste their money even on a low tech system if you're just going to be growing hair algae. JMO.

[mseepman]

Haha...Myka, I was trying to be politically correct...I wasn't sure if anyone would pick up on the fact that an "S" was missing

*ahem That method would be called "KISS" (keep it simple stupid). :lol:

I've seen the odd TOTM here and there that was a lot simpler, but you don't see them often. I've seen a couple simple nanos make TOTM too.

[kwirky]

u didn't hijack the thread greg :)

I totally didn't notice greg's tank on FTOTM in AA. after reading it his tank could probably have been even more simple as lots of things were added before the real problems were discovered (like RO/DI when it was the skimmer acting up).

I like that idea of the dripping of the 2 part.

I agree calcium reactors take less space than the basins for 2 part when using dosing pumps. Using a dosing pump like a litermeter would probably be WAY less work than a calcium reactor I'm thinking. There are people who've used them for 2 years before having to change the surgical tubing and they have a little beeper alarm reminding you when to calibrate them (every 6 months i think?)

I'm considering a litermeter 2 part doser for my own tank because it seems much simpler than a calcium reactor (and most reactors would be overkill for a 45 gallon tank). Also I see an advantage of a dosing pump being able to scale for any size tank. just increase the dosage.

I've been thinking hard about whether to not bother hauling water in RO/DI water from my mom's in the city any more. I have an analysis from foothill's hospital of the well water here and it says it's absolutely perfect except it's abnormally high in potassium. leaves white residue on the sinks n such. everything else is even BETER than city water. I've been using out of lazyness for the past month and my corals haven't been complaining. dkh ends up around 12 or 13 but most calcium reactors bring it there anyways I think.

but anyways I'm hijacking my own thread here lol :redface:

edit: scratch using the well water. it tests at a whopping 24 dkh when the salt is added!!!

[super7]

this tank is pretty simple but it is also a nano.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/totm/index.php

[Snappy]

Sean I used tap water for quite a while when I started out but have had much better success with R/O. I would not go back.