Filtration Question

[Bartman]

Howdy All,

I have a nano reef with 2 Aquaclear filters filled with foam and a powerhead 301. Information I have read on the net and info from at least one LFS suggest I should clean the foam in the filters every day, which I have been doing. Another LFS, which has a nano reef setup, said I should not clean or remove the foam for months. My understanding is that if I clean the filter foam then all biological filtration will occur in the LR and organic decay will not build in the filter. The suggestion is that if I leave the foam in then copepods and other organisms will look after the organics and the foam will help with Nitrate removal. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this? I do not have a skimmer.

Best Regards,

[Bob I]

Howdy All,

I have a nano reef with 2 Aquaclear filters filled with foam and a powerhead 301. Information I have read on the net and info from at least one LFS suggest I should clean the foam in the filters every day, which I have been doing. Another LFS, which has a nano reef setup, said I should not clean or remove the foam for months. My understanding is that if I clean the filter foam then all biological filtration will occur in the LR and organic decay will not build in the filter. The suggestion is that if I leave the foam in then copepods and other organisms will look after the organics and the foam will help with Nitrate removal. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this? I do not have a skimmer.

Best Regards,

That is a tough call, however, bully for you on the skimmerless idea. In my nano I have a DSB to remove nitrates, and take care of biological filtration. Therefore what I do with the foam is relatively immaterial. I usually leave the foam be as my current nano is in its early stages.

I am puzzled about your idea of the foam helping with Nitrate removal. I frankly have not heard of that, thus I can't comment. Where did you get that idea?

[Bartman]

My understanding is that once enough goop (I believe that's the correct technical term) had accumulated in the foam and been broken down that you would have a similar situation to your sand bed in terms of nitrate removal. I am no scientist so unfortnately I cannot give you a better explanation. I just didn't want to end up with a bunch of foam full of crap :wink: if it wasn't appropriate. BTW, how deep is your sand bed?

Thanks for the reply,
Scott.

[Bartman]

Also, I'm not running any carbon. Any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated.

[CHEAPREEF]

If you leave the sponge too long it will become a nitrate factory, just like the bio ball idea. It would be good for a FOWLR but not for a reef setup. On my 7gal i run filter flose in my aquaclear 500, replace it every week. I wouldn't run carbon unless you have too, if you put medication in the tank ect.. If you do run carbon you have to change it out every few days.

Clinton

[Bob I]

My understanding is that once enough goop (I believe that's the correct technical term) had accumulated in the foam and been broken down that you would have a similar situation to your sand bed in terms of nitrate removal. I am no scientist so unfortnately I cannot give you a better explanation. I just didn't want to end up with a bunch of foam full of crap :wink: if it wasn't appropriate. BTW, how deep is your sand bed?

Thanks for the reply,
Scott.

That would be incorrect as far as I know. Nitrate is converted to Nitrogen by by anaerobic bacteria that live in the lower area of the sandbed where there is no oxygen. The foam in the filter has plenty of oxygen available, so indeed it would merely create Nitrates.

The sandbed in my nano is three inches. It should be four inches, but in a standard 10 gallon tank would only leave eight inches of water. :(

[Bartman]

Bob,

Thanks for the info.

Nitrate is converted to Nitrogen by by anaerobic bacteria that live in the lower area of the sandbed where there is no oxygen. The foam in the filter has plenty of oxygen available, so indeed it would merely create Nitrates.


That answers my question.

Regards,
Scott.

[Beverly]

Also, I'm not running any carbon. Any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated.

Carbon removes the beneficial elements from saltwater, and freshwater for that matter. I never use it unless I've had something toxic die in the tank, then I also do a 25% or larger water change along with using the carbon for a day or so then discarding it.

Foam in our AC Mini is thoroughly cleaned in outgoing changewater weekly. The amount of grunge that is exported is unbelievable, especially since we're skimmerless too.

[Bob I]

[quote=Bartman]Also, I'm not running any carbon. Any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated.
Foam in our AC Mini is thoroughly cleaned in outgoing changewater weekly. The amount of grunge that is exported is unbelievable, especially since we're skimmerless too.

This is merely an observation, and not to be construed as advice. My nano has a DSB, and therefore there is no need for using the foam in my mini for biological filtration. My nano is used as a grow out tank, and is experimental in nature, so as in my other tanks I do no water changes to speak of. I clean the foam in fresh water. No flames please. :wink: :wink:

[Beverly]

This is merely an observation, and not to be construed as advice. My nano has a DSB, and therefore there is no need for using the foam in my mini for biological filtration.

I don't use the foam for biological filtration, even though I treat it that way (rinsing in outgoing changewater). I, too, have a deep sandbed and lots of porous rock, but no skimmer. I simply use the foam to catch and export crud from our system, and lots of crud we have every week when I cleanthe foam.

Since out 7 gal is our primary tank, I just go the extra mile to keep it in tip top shape. Everybody uses their tanks in different ways, and each to their own.

Take care.

[BCOrchidGuy]

I think cleaning the foam daily is a waste of time, no good will come of it. If you want to clean it often try cleaning one foam one week and the other foam on an alternating week.

rcipema says"Nitrate is converted to Nitrogen by by anaerobic bacteria that live in the lower area of the sandbed where there is no oxygen. The foam in the filter has plenty of oxygen available, so indeed it would merely create Nitrates." I couldn't agree more, you need that lower oxygen area if you want to break down nitrates. There are a couple ways to do this. DSB is one of the best, not only do you get the nitrate removal but you end up with an increased biological diversity to your tank. You could build a DIY DE Nitrifier, they work well but like any bio filter it has to break in and establish, usually 6 weeks for this type of filter.

Beverly says " Carbon removes the beneficial elements from saltwater, and freshwater for that matter. " I would have to disagree. It CAN remove beneficial elements, but it has not been out and out proved. The idea that Carbon removes the beneficial elements is mostly speculation, and there are different qualities of carbon. I wouldn't use carbon often simply because of its perpensity to leach phosphates. There are many carbon substitutes on the market that don't leach phosphates, and there are a number of reef safe carbons to use that advertise they don't leach phosphates or remove trace elements. Your water conditioner will probably be more at blame for removing or binding essential elements from the water than the carbon its self.

If you leave the foam in yes your pod density will increase. If your coral/fish etc consume the pods you can take out your foam rinse it lightly in tank water and then drain that water through a brine shrimp net and feed that to the fish. The pods copepods, amphipods etc will consume ditrius (fish poop) and waste food as well as other organic waste.

Live rock is the best filter period, the more porous the better in my opinion. Live rock has bacteria that live in oxygen rich areas, and in oxygen poor areas. When the live rock is established it can do a great job of taking care of your bio filtration but the foam in your aquaclear wont hurt. If you put a clam in your tank the foam will actually help as clams consume nitrates.

[Beverly]

I think cleaning the foam daily is a waste of time, no good will come of it. If you want to clean it often try cleaning one foam one week and the other foam on an alternating week.

Yeah, once a day foam cleaning is obsessive, for sure. I do mine weekly, which is obsessive enough ;-)


Beverly says " Carbon removes the beneficial elements from saltwater, and freshwater for that matter. " I would have to disagree. It CAN remove beneficial elements, but it has not been out and out proved.

I prefer to err on the side of caution and will only ever use carbon in the case of catastrophe.

I wouldn't use carbon often simply because of its perpensity to leach phosphates. Your water conditioner will probably be more at blame for removing or binding essential elements from the water than the carbon its self.

I did a series of tests a few years ago regarding phosphate leaching and most commonly available carbon did indeed leach phosphate.

I use RO water with salt without any water conditioner, so no binding of trace elements to the conditioner in our tank.

The pods copepods, amphipods etc will consume ditrius (fish poop) and waste food as well as other organic waste.

Funny thing about pods, etc. is that they also add to the detritus: what goes in must come out, so to speak. So there must be a way of exporting the accumulated detritus which in my tanks always shows up as a light brown dust on the sandbed. A light turkey basting gets the stuff up into the water column and the foam sucks it out. Then I clean the foam to export.

Live rock is the best filter period, the more porous the better in my opinion. Live rock has bacteria that live in oxygen rich areas, and in oxygen poor areas.

Live rock and, as you've stated previously, a deep sandbed certainly are the way to go.


If you put a clam in your tank the foam will actually help as clams consume nitrates.

Saw some clams at the lfs this morning. How much light do they need? Did a little shopping while I was at it and brought home a 2.5 gal acrylic bowfront, enough new sugar-sized sand for a 4" bed, 2.5 lb of uncured Tonga branch, and some halimeda. Upgraded the light from the crappy 15 watt incandescent bulb to one of those curly 15 watt envirolites. IYO, would this be enough light for a clam or two once the 2.5 gal cycles?

[BCOrchidGuy]

For a T. derasa yes maybe, but for maxima, probably not.. they really need the intensity of a MH. T. derasa will do okay under that light but it may eventually loose its colour. T. maxima needs to be set on rock to attatch, derasa should be in the sand.

[Samw]

An alternative to using regular foam would be to use the patented 'Polyfilter' product from Poly-Bio-Marine. I've read very good things about it on RC and around the Net.

Product Info
http://www.poly-bio-marine.com/polyprod.htm

Review
http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blank/blPRpbiomarinepad.htm

[Bartman]

Has anyone used this Poly Filter product? Did you have good results? Where can it be purchased?

[Scavenger]

Howdy All,

I have a nano reef with 2 Aquaclear filters filled with foam and a powerhead 301. Information I have read on the net and info from at least one LFS suggest I should clean the foam in the filters every day, which I have been doing. Another LFS, which has a nano reef setup, said I should not clean or remove the foam for months. My understanding is that if I clean the filter foam then all biological filtration will occur in the LR and organic decay will not build in the filter. The suggestion is that if I leave the foam in then copepods and other organisms will look after the organics and the foam will help with Nitrate removal. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this? I do not have a skimmer.

Best Regards,

I beleive I read an article on the same subject. The premise of the foam cleaned daily to elimiate nitrate was based on the same principle as a skimmer. By cleaning the foam daily, you remove wastes from the system before it decays and enters the nitrogen cycle, the same as a skimmer. I'm looking into this myself as a skimmerless nano idea. If it doesn't work, I can always get a skimmer. I still have quite a way to go building a large tank so I thought I'd get a nano running while working on the big tank. Maybe I'll learn a trick or two doing so.

[little reef]

if you are looking for foam try ponds beautiful on 61ave
and roughly 219st rodger has some of the best foam
for filters. also he has a prett :biggrin: y awsome koi setup.dave[/quote]