fast setting something

[rossb]

A bit ago I posted a question about a safe sealant that works underwater and will fill a gap of about 3/16th inch. As I expected it likely doesn't exist. The next best thing is something that cures quite quickly, 3-4 hours ...and then is fish safe. Does anyone know of something like that?

I have several sealants that are safe after 24 hours but I am not sure how long a person can leave their tank without the pumps running.

Any suggestions?

[StirCrazy]

Jon Eaks showed something on his show that was fish save and it was a under water construction adhesive.. look quite good to me.

Steve

[Canadian Man]

Well Ross good old silicone cures faster if you keep it damp. Some may not know that it uses moisture to cure. So I think that would be your best bet.

Drop the level in your tank a few inches, put some more powerheads in your tank. Put a heater in your tank and sump and seal away and let it dry and makesure you spray it with fresh water every few minutes.

Ciao

[StirCrazy]

silicone is poisionous untill it is cured, not a good idea.

Steve

[Canadian Man]

Well then drain your tank 4" and wait till it developes a skin and then use a damp cloth.

Cutting out a centerbrace in a 90g tank while it's full can be poisionous (to the wife :lol: ) as well but we only live once :twisted: . Well maybe but who knows.

It's not like the silicone is the same viscosity as water so it's not going to flow into your tank.

[Delphinus]

Is this going to be a structural bond? If not, how about good ol' underwater epoxy?

Actually the epoxy stuff can have some reasonable structural strength, like keeping two rocks together, although I wouldn't use it, for, say, a load bearing wall in a basement or something .... :)

[Canadian Man]

If I remember correctly Tony, Ross was having a problem with the water creeping under the plastic trim and over the glass kinda thing.
I think :?

I thought the epoxy was ok to use to hold the 2x4's together when framing a basement? Are you telling me I got to redo it all! :wink:

[rossb]

CM wrote:
creeping under the plastic trim and over the glass kinda thing

bingo.

The top of the front glass panel is exactly at the water level. A 5/8" glass brace is glued on top of the front panel and there is a 3/16 th inch gap at the water level on one side. If there are any surface ripples, a small amount of water overflows and runs down the front of the aquarium. I just have to plug a gap.

Does anyone know how long it takes silicon to cure?
Has anyone ever tried sikaflex (it is a polyurethane based adhesive that is much thinner and cures quite quickly)?

[Delphinus]

I'm sure I've read something once where wet silicone was used under water ... but I can't remember at all what the context was. Something about putting wet silicone on the glass, then scraping it off afterwards. I think it might have been something Charles J Devito said. But I can't even begin to remember what the context was, or where it was (rmar or rdo or rc or what). Or if it really was silicone he was talking about, or something else.

...

In your case, if it's just a small spot, I might consider just draining the tank 6" or so, and be doggoned sure I didn't spill any into the tank ... and then kept a fan to keep it ventilated so that the fumes don't accumulate, then let it cure the 24 hours before refilling the tank. To me anyways, I think that sounds less risky than experimenting with different materials.

What about just lowering the water level in the tank by 1/4"-3/8" or so? Is that a possibility? Might be less of a headache!

[Canadian Man]

What about just lowering the water level in the tank by 1/4"-3/8" or so? Is that a possibility? Might be less of a headache!

I'll answer for you again Ross :wink:

He can't lower the water level because his glass corner overflow/s are at a fixed height and they are a little too high.
Did I get it correct?

[Delphinus]

But the height above the overflow is a function of the water pressure from the sump return. It doesn't take much of a throttle adjustment to lower a water level 1/4". I know this because that's how I solved MY salt creep problem on my 72g. Exact same problem, little waves would sometimes splash into the tracking or whatever that plastic rim thing is called, and I'd have salt creeping down the front glass. I'd clean it up, and it would return 5 minutes later. I started going on about how to fix this, and I was envisioning the silicone in the track on the inside and all that, and I was all full of despair and expletives, and finally I decided to try throttling back and lo and behold it was all that was required. I don't think your water level should be right at the top of the glass. I think, and this is only my opinion I'm sure everyone else has their own, but I think that water should be down from the top edge of the glass by at least 1/2" for this exact reasoning. My $0.02 ...

I only suggest it just in case it hasn't already been considered. The elegant solution is the simple solution, and sometimes we don't see the simple solution right in front of our noses. If it's been considered or tried, well, no harm done then. Better than, say, risking spilling an oil based sealant (or paint, hmmmm?) into one's tank!!!!!!!!!!!! :P :P :P

One last thought: if it were me, and the sump return couldn't be throttled back ... I'd be looking at making my notches bigger in my overflows, or perhaps just some of them. If the overflows are acrylic or plastic, it'd be not a lot of effort. If they are glass, well it's not quite as trivial but basically the same principle, you'd just have to use a dremel and the appropriate bit (with the water level lowered a good 6"-12" of course!!!) (And for the love of Pete don't drop the dremel and use a GFCI and all that....)

[Delphinus]

Wait. I guess ... I guess a glass overflow doesn't have notches. Sigh .. never mind... (As usual I don't know what I'm talking about...)

[rossb]

Tony CM is correct again, and the water level will be 5/8" lower than the top once this gap is plugged.

Suppose that the aquariums 24" tall (and it is). If the front panel was 24" tall both the top brace and bottom panel would be glued to the inside this panel. If the front is cut 23 1/2" high (1/2 inch glass) then the front panel is glued to bottom panel in the same manner but the brace is glued to the top of the front panel, which is how my tank is. This is ok as long as there is not a small gap in the brace.

My overflows are out of 1/2 inch glass and I would have to trim an even amount off both of them :( .

I think I am going to have to silicon the gap, and then let it dry. It is only a problem when I place an object in the tank, and it causes ripples on the top of the water.

[Delphinus]

I never saw your other thread (http://www.canreef.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4056) until now, so I wasn't sure what you had meant. Now I can kind of visualize this now, whereas before I didn't at all understand what you were trying to describe about the gap.

Honestly, what I'd do, drain the tank maybe a couple inches (yes this will mean you are disconnecting from the sump, temporarily), and just go with silicone. I don't see why this won't work. It's not under the waterline so there shouldn't be any issues of toxicity. Maybe use a fan if the fumes/smell is a concern, but seeing as it's only a small amount I don't see why this should pose a problem.

I would go with silicone, over anything else. That other stuff ... who knows how runny it is and what would happen if you spilled some (maybe harmless, but why find out the hard way that it isn't, if it isn't?). Maybe ... put psome masking tape under the gap before applying the silicone, and then for sure none should likely spill into the water. For sure I don't think there's any reason for it to be any harder on yourself than this ... this isn't that bad a thing to do... :D

Dropping the water level isn't that big of a deal. Think of it as a prolonged water change. :)

When I first suggested the epoxy I was somehow thinking this was under the waterline.

BUT ... I still stand by my earlier assessment that your water level is too high ... if I understand this correctly you are saying that there is only 1/8" bewteen your water level and your bracing (presumably euro bracing btw). I don't think that's really enough. Just my opinion of course... Smack one to the guy who built your overflows, that's a very large oversight in my opinion... it would be one thing if you had a tremendous amount of flow from your sump return meaning your water level was >1" above your overflows... but you don't have that much if I recall correctly.

[rossb]

if I understand this correctly you are saying that there is only 1/8" bewteen your water level and your bracing (presumably euro bracing btw).


It is a pusedo ero-style but I have a center support as well, but you are correct...It's not something one thinks about when you buy the tank.

[Bob I]

CM wrote:
creeping under the plastic trim and over the glass kinda thing

bingo.

The top of the front glass panel is exactly at the water level. A 5/8" glass brace is glued on top of the front panel and there is a 3/16 th inch gap at the water level on one side. If there are any surface ripples, a small amount of water overflows and runs down the front of the aquarium. I just have to plug a gap. <br>
Does anyone know how long it takes silicon to cure?<br>Has anyone ever tried sikaflex (it is a polyurethane based adhesive that is much thinner and cures quite quickly)?

On the tube I have it says the silicone skins over in an hour, and fully cures in 24. I don't know if it helps, but when I got my new 50, the trim was a bit loose. I just lifted the whole thing, and ran a bead of silicone along the top of the glass, and put it back.

[StirCrazy]

why don;t you simpaly turn off your returm pump, drop your water level 3 to 6 inches (use a power head and a hearer in both the sump and the tank for 24 hours... then you can silicone it and not wory about anything..

Steve

[rossb]

why don;t you simpaly turn off your returm pump, drop your water level 3 to 6 inches (use a power head and a hearer in both the sump and the tank for 24 hours... then you can silicone it and not wory about anything..

exactly...I have drained the tank and applied the silicon..thanks for the tips.

Tony wrote
I'm sure I've read something once where wet silicone was used under water ... but I can't remember at all what the context was. Something about putting wet silicone on the glass, then scraping it off afterwards

Tony this is a good tip ... and I think it is what you are referring to. If you apply a bead of silicon to glass (like along a seam), and then spray the glass with water, and then smoosh the silicon in with your finger...the silicon will not stick to the wet glass but it will stick where the water isn't. When the silicone dries the excess will peel off very nicely (it is just about as good as masking tape)

[Canadian Man]

why don;t you simpaly turn off your returm pump, drop your water level 3 to 6 inches (use a power head and a hearer in both the sump and the tank for 24 hours... then you can silicone it and not wory about anything..

Steve

Just like I said earlier Steve :lol:

[Delphinus]

I was just curious how this was working out? Any update?

[rossb]

I drained the tank down 2" and carefully filled the hole with silicon. It is all fixed now.

thanks for the comments and sugestions!