Want to change my overflow (Herbie Question)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I hate my overflow...lol. Its ugly and takes up way too much room. My plumbing is all set up with the herbie method. So 2 drains one with a gate valve to restrict flow to match the return pump and the other as an emergency...for those who are not familiar with this method.

Anyways, I want to know what you guys think using just PVC pipes in place of my overflow? So basically one to the height where I want the water level and the emergency would actually just stay as it is. Basically I guess the PVC on the main drain would act as a very small overflow. I don't see why this wouldn't work but am I forgetting something?

I know the main downside is surface skimming but are there others?

The surface water in my tank is very agitated and I think that will help a lot with keeping to much organics from forming on the top. Actually my overflow now is toothless, and doesn't seem do the best job of surface skimming as it is anyways.

[spoot]

I don't think there will be a problem with this Justin. Conceptually you still have the same plumbing setup, just that it isn't boxed in with the overflow box.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I don't think there will be a problem with this Justin. Conceptually you still have the same plumbing setup, just that it isn't boxed in with the overflow box.

Yeah thats what I thought but for some reason it feels like Im missing something and it may be a bad idea. Don't know why though. LOL.

It would not be too hard to do either because I can just drain my overflow, make sure its totally dry and then cement in the PVC to the bulkhead.

I guess I could also use some kind of a funnel type fitting on top of the PVC to skim more surface area but that would maybe defeat the purpose of removing the ugly overflow since it too would be ugly, if not uglier!

[chevyjaxon]

I tried it and i will tell you its a real pain in the butt i just got an overflow box instead the overflow keeps the water level consistent all of the time i was sick and tired of worrying if my sump or main tank was going to overfill and flood my house its your tank do what you want but i am telling you that for me it was nothing but a nightmare good luck:wink:

[mark]

Talking about this with a guy in Edm with Herbies (removing overflow boxes and just relying on standpipes.)

Seems in principle would work if the water lvl was rocky steady. Concern would be tuning the primary Herbie drain if the water level varied from a wavebox, OM-4way or even powerheads with varying flow or on/off cycles with a wave maker. This was all discussed based on the experiences of tuning with a ball valve, not sure if a gate valve would give a wider sweet spot.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ok, well I think thats the thing I was not thinking about...Water level. I think I will stick with my ugly overflow. :(

[chevyjaxon]

good idea its ugly but it serves a purpose and its better than banging you head against the wall wasting countless days babysitting the valve for the proper flow
remember there are variables that imoe constantly affect the flow rate of your return pump and an overflow compensates for these variables BTW if generating a reliable siphon is a problem i picked up a neat little device i hooked to my overflow intake tube it starts the siphon for you even if the power goes out and you loose your siphon when the power comes on so does it it looks like an air pump only it sucks water through an airline tubing 3.5gph works great got it at big als for 30 bucks

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

good idea its ugly but it serves a purpose and its better than banging you head against the wall wasting countless days babysitting the valve for the proper flow
remember there are variables that imoe constantly affect the flow rate of your return pump and an overflow compensates for these variables BTW if generating a reliable siphon is a problem i picked up a neat little device i hooked to my overflow intake tube it starts the siphon for you even if the power goes out and you loose your siphon when the power comes on so does it it looks like an air pump only it sucks water through an airline tubing 3.5gph works great got it at big als for 30 bucks

No its not a hang on the back overflow, so no siphon is needed I have an internal overflow but I just hate how it looks and how much space it takes up. I have a few big fish and would like to give them as much room as possible. But its really not worth removing.

Thanks guys.

[spoot]

If you want the constant water level, use a reducing bushing, so that it acts like a mine overflow box.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

If you want the constant water level, use a reducing bushing, so that it acts like a mine overflow box.

How do you mean? Im not sure I understand.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

This was the idea anyways...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/OverflowIdea.jpg

[untamed]

I really didn't understand your idea until you drew it. Now that I see it, I really dislike this idea a lot (sorry).

1) IF....IF..you got the water level to where you describe and you were drawing from the surface...there is a great liklihood that you will suck air into the primary drain which defeats much/all of the Herbie's benefits.

2) It is VERY likely that you will suck all kinds of things directly into the primary drain. If you put a screen over the drain, you'll have to deal with the screen plugging up and the changes in flow that will create as the screen plugs.

3) If you shortened the primary standpipe, you could solve the problem mentioned in #1, but now you have a submerged pipe with great suction...that can only be trouble for inhabitants. With no surface skimming, you are going to get scum formation the surface, almost regardless of how much your circulation is in the tank.

Nope...I do not think this is a good idea at all.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I really didn't understand your idea until you drew it. Now that I see it, I really dislike this idea a lot (sorry).

1) IF....IF..you got the water level to where you describe and you were drawing from the surface...there is a great liklihood that you will suck air into the primary drain which defeats much/all of the Herbie's benefits.

2) It is VERY likely that you will suck all kinds of things directly into the primary drain. If you put a screen over the drain, you'll have to deal with the screen plugging up and the changes in flow that will create as the screen plugs.

3) If you shortened the primary standpipe, you could solve the problem mentioned in #1, but now you have a submerged pipe with great suction...that can only be trouble for inhabitants. With no surface skimming, you are going to get scum formation the surface, almost regardless of how much your circulation is in the tank.

Nope...I do not think this is a good idea at all.


Yeah I agree that its a terrible idea. LOL. I am looking into other ways of dealing with the ugly overflow at this point.

Thanks everyone!

[spoot]

Here's what's I'm talking about Justin:

The reducing coupling will keep the water level where you want it, and you can still have a fully submerged drain. Kinda like this, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1225992 but you will be dialing in the flow.

[dsaundry]

Think I see what you want and so long as it is set up to break the siphon should a power failure occur it looks fine if your tank is plumbed for it. Just make sure you calculate your water drainage should you lose power to the pump....

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Think I see what you want and so long as it is set up to break the siphon should a power failure occur it looks fine if your tank is plumbed for it. Just make sure you calculate your water drainage should you lose power to the pump....

Yeah thats another thing I had not thought of. Thanks.

I still don't think I will do it but man I want to!

Spoot...Im still not too sure how that would work in this case? Will it really keep the water level constant?

[spoot]

It should keep the water level constant at the top of the coupling, theorectically. I have not tried this though.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

It should keep the water level constant at the top of the coupling, theorectically. I have not tried this though.

Ok but Im not sure I understand how you intend to use the coupling? Can you draw something real quick?

Im still interested in figuring out a way to do this if possible.

[spoot]

Hey, I attached it to one of my messages. It's like 4 messages back.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Sorry didn't see that :redface:

Yeah that seems like it would work...just a mini little overflow. I have seen someone do that kind of thing and made it with teeth too.

[spoot]

Yup, exactly. Hope this works for you.