No water changes

[fishdaddy3]

Has anybody ran a reef tank without doing water changes. I've ran into several people who claim that they do not do water changes they just top up evaporation. None of these folks had skimmers either. I bought a running aquarium with live rock from a lady who didn't know that I had experience with marine setups and before we sealed the deal she told me that it was important to not clean the sand or change any water. The rock was covered with nuisance algae. I did a 50 percent water change and washed the sand in the old tank water to get rid of all the dirt and stuff(the water was damn near cocoa) and 2 weeks later the algae was gone and then a month later every bit of exposed branch rock was covered with thick and bright purple coraline. the tank was about 5 years old. I just wanted to know what people on the board thought of "no water changes". I love water changes, everything looks new again.

[Interior_Reef]

I very very rairly do a water change on my reef. i just add the water to compensate for the evap, and thats about it. as for the sand bed, i do get my paws in there atleast once every week or 2 and mix it up a bit. not like a hurricane, just enough to release the nitrate gas pockets. then my skimmer goes into overkill mode for a few days, and then its clean again.

on the odd, occasion, i may do a water change, like when im starting another tank,i will take about 20% of my water and use it for the new system. and then just top off the reef tank with fresh saltwater.

i have no algae problems, and never have had actually. knock on wood.

[ElGuappo]

wow this s very interesting i have herd of no water changes but had yet to hear any feed back.

Looking forward to hearing more.

[TNTCanada]

My old system I went over a year with out a water change ... new one has been up and running sense Sept and only did the first one a couple weeks back .. depends on the BIO load ... how many fish how often and how much you feed, water volume, and filtration .. mechanical .. or natural... and what you have for a clean up crew, if you have Macro Algae ...many different factors ...

[StirCrazy]

I varried from 1 per month to 1 per year.. no real differance as loong as you adding the depleted minerals with a Ca reactor or by dosing.

Steve

[eWarren]

WOW, if this is real, but then why does all fish shop staffs recommend people to do water change? Or do you need a huge skimmer / refugium so one can get away from water change? :sad:

[Stumped]

WOW, if this is real, but then why does all fish shop staffs recommend people to do water change? Or do you need a huge skimmer / refugium so one can get away from water change? :sad:

Water changes facilitate the addition of trace elements and removal of waste. Even if you can have a healthy tank without regular water changes there is no real reason for most people not to do them. It's not like you need to do them daily/weekly, so compared to other types of tank maintenance you really don't invest a lot of time into them in the grand scheme of things.

[Doug]

WOW, if this is real, but then why does all fish shop staffs recommend people to do water change? Or do you need a huge skimmer / refugium so one can get away from water change? :sad:

Reef tanks require the removal of organic waste & detritus and as Steve said, the replacement of depleted minerals or such.

How thats achieved is variable. Water changes, good skimmers, large algae refugiums or algae turf scrubbers, carbon, ozone and the replacement parts handled by again water changes, reactors or the addition of 2-part supplements.

Most of the experienced aquarists use a combination of water changes & filtration to achieve beautiful tanks such as those displayed in our feature,s.

[castaway]

I very rarely do water changes(Last one over 6 months ago).
Both of my systems have skimmers, I add minerals and my livestock is doing great.

[StirCrazy]

WOW, if this is real, but then why does all fish shop staffs recommend people to do water change? Or do you need a huge skimmer / refugium so one can get away from water change? :sad:

same reason as they recomend you change out your bulbs befor you need to.. makes them money.

you do frequent water changes you buy more salt.

remember water changes are a tool and you still need them, but with the right equipment you can extend the time between them.

Steve

[bassman]

One very experienced reefer put it into prospective for me once.

He said changing your water is like opening a window in your house after a long winter, you don't have to but the fresh air sure is nice.

[mark]

Wonder what in-land public aquariums do? Realize we're talking larger volumes and that dilution/solution/pollution thing, but the costs and efforts for a 10% bi-weekly change on a 10,000g system...

[Myka]

with the right equipment you can extend the time between [waterchanges].

This is the key. Newbies are gonna stumble when they see a thread like this. You NEED to have good equipment to get away with no/low waterchanges. Don't be thinkin that your over stocked 'low-tech' 90g with a Remora Pro and a sack of PhosBan is gonna cut it.

Replacing the vitamins and minerals is a very important thing. As well as nutrient removal. A calcium reactor will replace the minerals and many vitamins. I use SeaChem Reef Plus to replace amino acids and vitamins, you can also use Reefresh or Polyp Lab or ZeoVit. But if you aren't doing waterchanges regularly you need to be adding something.

You will also need a good nutrient export. A very good skimmer like a Bubblemaster, EuroReef, Deltec etc will hugely lengthen the time between needed waterchanges. Incorporating a refugium will also help.

Bioload has a HUGE impact on the length of time between waterchanges. Lots of fish? Less time between.

Attempting no/low waterchanges on a low-tech tank without supplementing for minerals and vitamins is not going to work very well for you.

My tank is low-tech and I do 15% waterchanges every 3-4 weeks. The corals tell me when it's time.

[eWarren]

:biggrin: Thanks everyone for all your advise. I am glad to know I can come to this site and get lots opinion and advise. This is great. Thanks again:smile:

[ron101]

I think that feeding your fish is a significant form of supplementation.

[chevyjaxon]

ive had a 90 gal up and running for 8 weeks now not even 1 water change ive loaded up the system too ive got a tang, clown, 5 damsels, huge neon wrasse, mushroom corals, and a bubbletip anemone i use marine snow, purple up, and 2 skimmers one is a woodlimestone skimmer the other is made by instant ocean i think im doing great for a noobie:biggrin: and to think i was starting to worry about doing a water change even though my nitrates are under 20 ppm i guess that being said no water changes for atleast another month:n00b:

[adidas]

i've done about 2 water changes since September, mind you I only have 2 fish.

[Myka]

and to think i was starting to worry about doing a water change even though my nitrates are under 20 ppm i guess that being said no water changes for atleast another month:n00b:

Eek! This is exactly what I meant. Your tank isn't the type of setup that is good for a low or no waterchange scheme. This will cause you trouble. I think ALL newbies should be doing 10-15% waterchanges once a week or once every couple weeks. ESPECIALLY when your equipment isn't top of the line.

[chevyjaxon]

no my equipment isnt top of the line but i have 2 skimmers each rated for aquariums up tp 100 gallons so that being said i should be good for 200 gallons:mrgreen:

[Myka]

Just because a skimmer is rated for X gallons sometimes doesn't mean it's any good for even half the gallons. PLUS, cheap skimmers are crap on ANY size tank. Don't fool yourself...you'll be more successful.

[Okguy]

and to think i was starting to worry about doing a water change even though my nitrates are under 20 ppm i guess that being said no water changes for atleast another month:n00b:

Umm you aren't doing very well for a Newbie. Any Nitrates in your tank are bad (it burns your poor fishes gills) and any real reefer will do everything in their power to get them down to 0. I suggest a water change ASAP or you're just being mean.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Anything around 20 ppm is way too high. That means you need to do a water change. Your anenome will thank you. Try to keep them at least below 5 ppm or better yet undetectable.

[StirCrazy]

ive had a 90 gal up and running for 8 weeks now not even 1 water change ive loaded up the system too ive got a tang, clown, 5 damsels, huge neon wrasse, mushroom corals, and a bubbletip anemone i use marine snow, purple up, and 2 skimmers one is a woodlimestone skimmer the other is made by instant ocean i think im doing great for a noobie:biggrin: and to think i was starting to worry about doing a water change even though my nitrates are under 20 ppm i guess that being said no water changes for atleast another month:n00b:

I am asuming from all the happy faces you are joking, er I hope so anyways.. I am talking a system with perfect water condidions. when I did do my rare water changes, amonia, nitrate and nitrite were all still undetectable. I used both a Ca reactor and a kalk reactor, my skimmer was probably rated for 4 times my water volume, and I had low fish stalking and I feed on the lower side. don't use nitrates as a deciding factor as when you see them you should have already done one if your system can't handle them.

also don't be scared of large waterchanges.. I used to do 20% changes and if I decided I needed a big one I would do 80% and I have even done a couple 100% changes when I moved tanks ect.. as long as your salinity, PH, Ca, Alk and temp are very close you should be fine.

Steve

[Myka]

I had low fish stalking

I hate it when my fish stalk eachother. :p Sorry I just had to. :D

also don't be scared of large waterchanges.. I used to do 20% changes and if I decided I needed a big one I would do 80% and I have even done a couple 100% changes when I moved tanks ect.. as long as your salinity, PH, Ca, Alk and temp are very close you should be fine.

Steve

I find it best to steer newbies away from large waterchanges for many reasons. One being that they aren't usually very good at matching water params, and two because they often figure that doing 75% waterchanges once every 6 months is the same as doing weekly 10%. Newbies shouldn't be given some information... :lol:

[albert_dao]

Who here has an SPS tank?

[Myka]

Who here has an SPS tank?

HAHAHA! Good question.

[chevyjaxon]

well I did go out and buy a couple of jars nitrate of sponges today i put them in nylon bags and into the sump BTW i was only kidding about the water change thing, i did do one earlier this week 20% or so. but my nitrates still stayed at
20 ppm I also know that zero nitrates is an impossible level to obtain any living tank will have some nitrates a person knows they are doing exceptionally well when nitrate levels are around 5 ppm in a few weeks with the aid of this sponge material, i should expect to see my nitrates drop considerably any suggestions on how to drop them sooner would be greatly appreciated. i do know my biological filters are working because i haven't seen any detectable ammonia yet
all i can see is the nitrates that they are producing and yes i really am a newbie

[Pan]

I hate it when my fish stalk eachother. :p Sorry I just had to. :D



I find it best to steer newbies away from large waterchanges for many reasons. One being that they aren't usually very good at matching water params, and two because they often figure that doing 75% waterchanges once every 6 months is the same as doing weekly 10%. Newbies shouldn't be given some information... :lol:
If you cannot match parameters in a water change you should seek out a lite-brite for that is the limit of your capable skills. Seriously water change are the best friend to people new to marine tanks. It is simple to change water, if you know what you are doing, but then if you know what you are doing most things are simple. If you notice in this hobby for every "you can't or shouldn't do that" there is a "i did it and it work fine for me". The only thing that is for sure is as you grow in this hobby you gain experience, without the reality of learning from your mistakes and actually running an maintaining a tank you have theoretical knowledge and that is it. Theory is good in theory only. There is a reason WISDOM and AGE go hand in hand, not beacuse one is older but because chances are the older you are (in this case the longer you have run a tank for) the more mistakes you have made and learned from. Keep in mind learning for yourself when asking questions, i guarantee you have people telling you both sides of a question. The only way to find out is to try.

That being said water changes worked for me when i was new to the hobby, I have also seen water changes kill a tank in 20 minutes (yes everything was done the same, most likely bad salt....another key to many problems, test you new water before and after you mix the salt. Unless you trust your RO/DI unit religiously....I also use tap water...i also test it for many things most people do not.

[fishoholic]

I try to do 20% water changes every week. Sometimes it gets forgotten for a week but never more then two. Of course I have a very high bio load and I feed my fish lots, so for me if I didn't do water changes often I'd be in big trouble.

[StirCrazy]

Who here has an SPS tank?


me.. why?

[StirCrazy]

because they often figure that doing 75% waterchanges once every 6 months is the same as doing weekly 10%. Newbies shouldn't be given some information... :lol:

actualy it would be just under 2 months not 6 :biggrin: but interesting you bring this up as there is an old debate from about 4 or more years ago on wether leage or small waterchanges are better. then an article came out that showed the dilution effect of both small and large over time. what it boiled down to is small ones will never get rid of someting and actualy did pourly compared to 60 or 80% (can't remember exactly what they compared it againsts off hand)

Steve

[StirCrazy]

I find it best to steer newbies away from large waterchanges for many reasons. One being that they aren't usually very good at matching water params,

this is the basis for reef keeping, if they arn't very good then they should be practicing befor they even start or not start at all. after all it isn't rocket science and if retailers would take the proper time to show them how to do the measurments and what equipment they realy need instead of what would make them the most money they would be better off.

Steve

[digital-audiophile]

I'm running zeo now so I am commited to weekly water changes, although small ones.

[mark]

I find it best to steer newbies away from large waterchanges for many reasons. One being that they aren't usually very good at matching water params, and two because they often figure that doing 75% waterchanges once every 6 months is the same as doing weekly 10%. Newbies shouldn't be given some information... :lol:

We're all here to learn and all newbies to point, post your experiences.

[Aquattro]

I run an SPS tank, I've been reasonably successful over the years. I schedule a 20g water change every two weeks. This means every 10 weeks I need to spend $50 on salt. That is a requisite cost of the hobby. My corals grow at stupidly fast rates, my longest lived fish was 9 years old, and everything does well in my tank. I don't supplement magnesium, I don't use zeovit, I add nothing that doesn't come from my Ca reactor or the water change.
As it's pointed out, the water change is at the very least some "fresh air" for the inhabitants. I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would not want to do water changes. Is the 30 minutes twice a month too much time invested? $200/year in salt too much money? Or we think that fish prefer to swim in their own waste over fresh water? I don't get it. Kinda like not washing your underwear between wearings, IMO :)

[Doug]

I run an SPS tank, I've been reasonably successful over the years. I schedule a 20g water change every two weeks. This means every 10 weeks I need to spend $50 on salt. That is a requisite cost of the hobby. My corals grow at stupidly fast rates, my longest lived fish was 9 years old, and everything does well in my tank. I don't supplement magnesium, I don't use zeovit, I add nothing that doesn't come from my Ca reactor or the water change.
As it's pointed out, the water change is at the very least some "fresh air" for the inhabitants. I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would not want to do water changes. Is the 30 minutes twice a month too much time invested? $200/year in salt too much money? Or we think that fish prefer to swim in their own waste over fresh water? I don't get it. Kinda like not washing your underwear between wearings, IMO :)

Tell us how you really feel Brad. :lol: I could not agree more with your entire post.

[sumpfinfishe]

Well said there Brad :biggrin:

IMO water changes are a must too, I had a fully stocked reef tank for over ten years and not that I am boasting or anything but the reef was very successful. I owe most of that success to two things one being water changes and two education. The hobby of reef keeping IS rocket science, and not a plug and play venture. Spending hundreds of hours reading various books and articles and talking with fellow hobbyist on boards and in person was a major reason I believe my tank did so well. The water changes were the second ingredient to my success, I think in just under 11 years I could count on one hand how many month water changes I had missed. I never had to add supplements because of this until the last two years until I made the switch to sps corals, this is when I had to dose calcium as the amount of corals I had effected the balance of the system even with my regular water changes, I could not retain the calcium levels within the system. During the last year while the tank was running, my interest and focuses changed which led to less water changes and simply less attention with the tank, this started to cause problems such as algae troubles and fish and coral deaths.
Now after a year off I have set up a small fowlr tank which is doing really well, which I can say water changes and knowledge are the two main factors for things doing so well.
Finally, if a natural reef gets flushed with thousands of gallons of water every second of the day and night, I believe we owe it to the animals that we keep in our systems to provide them with a clean and stable environment as best as we can :biggrin:

[Myka]

I run an SPS tank, I've been reasonably successful over the years. I schedule a 20g water change every two weeks. This means every 10 weeks I need to spend $50 on salt. That is a requisite cost of the hobby. My corals grow at stupidly fast rates, my longest lived fish was 9 years old, and everything does well in my tank. I don't supplement magnesium, I don't use zeovit, I add nothing that doesn't come from my Ca reactor or the water change.
As it's pointed out, the water change is at the very least some "fresh air" for the inhabitants. I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would not want to do water changes. Is the 30 minutes twice a month too much time invested? $200/year in salt too much money? Or we think that fish prefer to swim in their own waste over fresh water? I don't get it. Kinda like not washing your underwear between wearings, IMO :)

Good post. I don't understand the no waterchange thing either. Laziness is the culprit most likely I think.

I don't supplement magnesium either, but I do test for it. IO keeps my magnesium at 1350-1360 ppm.

IMO water changes are a must too, I had a fully stocked reef tank for over ten years and not that I am boasting or anything but the reef was very successful. I owe most of that success to two things one being water changes and two education. The hobby of reef keeping IS rocket science, and not a plug and play venture. Spending hundreds of hours reading various books and articles and talking with fellow hobbyist on boards and in person was a major reason I believe my tank did so well. The water changes were the second ingredient to my success, I think in just under 11 years I could count on one hand how many month water changes I had missed. I never had to add supplements because of this until the last two years until I made the switch to sps corals, this is when I had to dose calcium as the amount of corals I had effected the balance of the system even with my regular water changes, I could not retain the calcium levels within the system. During the last year while the tank was running, my interest and focuses changed which led to less water changes and simply less attention with the tank, this started to cause problems such as algae troubles and fish and coral deaths.
Now after a year off I have set up a small fowlr tank which is doing really well, which I can say water changes and knowledge are the two main factors for things doing so well.
Finally, if a natural reef gets flushed with thousands of gallons of water every second of the day and night, I believe we owe it to the animals that we keep in our systems to provide them with a clean and stable environment as best as we can :biggrin:

Another excellent post.

[StirCrazy]

I don't supplement magnesium, I

ah, but you do.. your Ca reactor adds Mg.:mrgreen:

anyways I don't think anyone is saying they are not necessary, just that they may not be necessary as often as some people think. I know you try for two week intervals but how often do you actually make that schedule. I try for 1 month intervals and I make it about 30 to 50% of the time. On my fresh water tanks I do an 80% change once a month but now that I have some new babies in there I will have to skip it this month till they are a little bigger.

are they necessary, yes, but depending on the equipment you have they may only be necessary every second month. as for money, not an issue, heck people spend more than that on corals in a week.

as for trace elements.... does synthetic salt contain all the trace elements we need? I don't know.

and no it is not rocket science. water maintenance is simply a matter of knowing how to do a test and reading instructions to come to the results. you do not have to pick formulas to work out ionic equations, you don't need a degree. does taking a chem class in school help, ya, but remembering that class is even better:mrgreen: it is all simplified so there is not much thinking on our parts, do we read a tone of books.. yes but this is for our personal knowledge and for tips and tricks, most books are nothing more than some ones method that worked for them and for every book that shows one way there are others that say a different way, so by reading these books we are doing nothing more than deciding which way fits our needs.

Steve

[Telford]

Here's the simple question then...other than temperature, salinity, de-chlorination and taking out ammonia. Are there any other tricks, tips, neccessities when doing a water change?

[mark]

All I used to do (using ro/di water) was aerate, match temp and salinity and never seemed to have problems. Only thing I'm doing different now is ensuring the Ca and Mg are also up.

[Pan]

Here's the simple question then...other than temperature, salinity, de-chlorination and taking out ammonia. Are there any other tricks, tips, neccessities when doing a water change?
Proper Calcium levels, alk, ph etc etc.. I always test these things after water has sat for a day or two...being mixed and aerated. bad salt has and will happen again. if you are using tap water i would suggest a copper test kit as well.

[Telford]

Proper Calcium levels, alk, ph etc etc.. I always test these things after water has sat for a day or two...being mixed and aerated. bad salt has and will happen again. if you are using tap water i would suggest a copper test kit as well.

Is it very important let your water sit for a couple days after mixing it? Do you just manually aerate it or?

[Interior_Reef]

One tip i find good, is if you have to syphon the tank water out, dont swallow it! :)

I use an airstone in my water tub, and the only reason i let it sit is to allow the heater to get it to the same temperature as the tank, that and to allow the chlorine to evap.

[fishdaddy3]

Is it very important let your water sit for a couple days after mixing it? Do you just manually aerate it or?

I read an article once that said it was important to let newly mixed salt water age for a few days because it is very caustic and corrosive when just mixe and it could be hard on livestock AND equipment.

[digital-audiophile]

I usually let my water sit for 24 hours, just to have a chance to mix really well and bring it up to temperature.

[fkshiu]

I read an article once that said it was important to let newly mixed salt water age for a few days because it is very caustic and corrosive when just mixe and it could be hard on livestock AND equipment.

That's UNdissolved salt and saltcreep that's corrosive. As long as the water is clear it's fine to use. Using a high powered pump helps hasten help dissolving process. I use a DIY modded maxijet which will blast the water out of my 33 gallon Brute garbage can if I'm not careful.

[StirCrazy]

I read an article once that said it was important to let newly mixed salt water age for a few days because it is very caustic and corrosive when just mixe and it could be hard on livestock AND equipment.

I used a mixer paddle on the end of a drill, mixed it up real good :mrgreen: the only time I let it sit for more than an hour is when I felt lazy all of a sudden, but having said that overnight would be good. now I used RO water so I wasn't worried about clorine or anything.


Steve

[Aquattro]

I just added 80g to my system, it didn't sit more than an hour per batch. I added 4 20g pails over the course of the day. Every thing is fine.

[kwirky]

Wow I totally missed this thread, it got to like 50 posts in 2 days!

I'd say siphoning out detritus has the effect of changing my water. My 5 gallons or less of siphoning is my small window of opportunity to siphon out as much visible detritus as possible and I've been trying to develop my own way of getting as much as I can with each change.

As for aerating water any changes larger than 5% I aerate if the water's straight out of the RO unit. I do this for 24 hours then use it. If my RO basin has had the current batch of water in it for like a week I just dump in the resulting saltwater right away.

And I test my water going into the aquarium about every 3rd batch or so (or on a new bucket).

One "no-no" i've done is use the well water a couple times out of desperation here on the acreage (since I haul water from the city to use on the aquarium). I have comprehensive test results of the water done by the hospital and it's supposed to be better than city water except it's high in potassium (which doesn't hurt since our salt's low in it). I haven't had problems yet but I haven't really used it much out of fear of something nasty happening. I've only used about 5 gallons in total over the past 3-4 weeks.

[Pan]

The reason I let my water sit is to balance out the alk, ph etc.. sometimes i have to add things to get what i want. It is proably one of those things that can be done either way...some say its fine to add and some say no. Kent says its okay to add, but to wait preferably. I only wait because i usually have to dose something or another. I find it more convenient to do it my way. :) I don't actually use kent...well i do sometimes i have a bucket laying around...but i have found salt is salt. I'd use reefers best but my calcium reactor cracked and i am too cheap to get a new one, and the calcium is low in reeefers best on purpose.

[Jenndarlin]

I don't know how long you have to be in the hobby to not be a "Newbie" anymore but I still definately consider myself a Newbie. There's so much to know I think i always will be....lol...

I started my system about a year ago but I had been researching the logistics for about 3-4 months before the actual setup. Books; specifically "The contientious marine aquarist" and the Internet were my bibles at first, the staff at OA were later to come but have been invaluable. To me the amount of money that I was going to have to put into the setup alone, let alone then stocking the system was the reason I took the researching aspect so seriously. In everything I read, "Good Skimmers and Weekly Water Changes" was not just mentioned but described in detail. I didn't even know until reading this thread that not doing weekly water changes was an option. I just assumed that if you let it go long enough, everything would die....just another reason i love this site...I always learn something new from every post I read on here. From what I have gathered though from this thread is those who don't do weekly or even bi-weekly water changes and have successful systems are very experienced and have a way better understanding of their water paramaters and what they need to be running/supplementing to ensure those water levels. I think I'll stick with weekly water changes for now.:lol:

I started with a Coral life Super Skimmer 60, which was great in the beginning but has been up and down over the last 6 months and the motor seems to have gone, again, on the pump in the past few days but I don't think I can fix it this time. I now know this wasn't the greatest choice for skimmers and I want to look at something that will last more than a year and do a better job than this one did.

I also started with a large rubbermaid garbage bin with a heater, some airstones and a maxijet 1200 for prepping the water for water changes. I've never tested anything other than the salinity and temp before doing my water changes but I just assume my water is really good as when I take my water in, my tests have mostly been really good and if not, they tell me what to do and it goes right back down. I am now curious to know what the change water tests at.

I do 10-15% weekly water changes which seems to be the standard recommendation among books, the internet, staff at the stores I've been to and alot of people on here. That's more than enough for me and with the amount I've invested in it, the stories of the negative effects of not doing water changes is just not worth it.

Questions: :question:

1. What test kits for which tests do people use??
I've been thinking of starting to do my own testing at home. Getting to the store weekly to get my water tested just hasn't been feasible lately and I wouldn't mind getting a better idea of the different tests done. I have a cheap test kit I bought at one the big animal superstores in the beginning but i know it's not accurate. So which brand names or test kits, products does everyone use??

2. Skimmers options. What's a good skimmer for 100 - 150gal????
I have a 100 gallon system including the sump but with rock displacement I figure there's about 60-70 gallons of water in the tank (not sure if this makes a difference or not). I have a plan in the works for a bigger system (150-180gal) that I would like to be able to transfer any new skimmer to. I have heard alot of good things about the Euro Reef Skimmers, I have heard mixed reviews about remora's and I've seen alot of things about DIY...but i definately don't think i'm there yet......lol

I sometimes think I ask too many questions but I wouldn't know most of what i do if i hadn't ask lots of questions:):)

[Pan]

I don't know how long you have to be in the hobby to not be a "Newbie" anymore but I still definately consider myself a Newbie. There's so much to know I think i always will be....lol...

I started my system about a year ago but I had been researching the logistics for about 3-4 months before the actual setup. Books; specifically "The contientious marine aquarist" and the Internet were my bibles at first, the staff at OA were later to come but have been invaluable. To me the amount of money that I was going to have to put into the setup alone, let alone then stocking the system was the reason I took the researching aspect so seriously. In everything I read, "Good Skimmers and Weekly Water Changes" was not just mentioned but described in detail. I didn't even know until reading this thread that not doing weekly water changes was an option. I just assumed that if you let it go long enough, everything would die....just another reason i love this site...I always learn something new from every post I read on here. From what I have gathered though from this thread is those who don't do weekly or even bi-weekly water changes and have successful systems are very experienced and have a way better understanding of their water paramaters and what they need to be running/supplementing to ensure those water levels. I think I'll stick with weekly water changes for now.:lol:

I started with a Coral life Super Skimmer 60, which was great in the beginning but has been up and down over the last 6 months and the motor seems to have gone, again, on the pump in the past few days but I don't think I can fix it this time. I now know this wasn't the greatest choice for skimmers and I want to look at something that will last more than a year and do a better job than this one did.

I also started with a large rubbermaid garbage bin with a heater, some airstones and a maxijet 1200 for prepping the water for water changes. I've never tested anything other than the salinity and temp before doing my water changes but I just assume my water is really good as when I take my water in, my tests have mostly been really good and if not, they tell me what to do and it goes right back down. I am now curious to know what the change water tests at.

I do 10-15% weekly water changes which seems to be the standard recommendation among books, the internet, staff at the stores I've been to and alot of people on here. That's more than enough for me and with the amount I've invested in it, the stories of the negative effects of not doing water changes is just not worth it.

Questions: :question:

1. What test kits for which tests do people use??
I've been thinking of starting to do my own testing at home. Getting to the store weekly to get my water tested just hasn't been feasible lately and I wouldn't mind getting a better idea of the different tests done. I have a cheap test kit I bought at one the big animal superstores in the beginning but i know it's not accurate. So which brand names or test kits, products does everyone use??

2. Skimmers options. What's a good skimmer for 100 - 150gal????
I have a 100 gallon system including the sump but with rock displacement I figure there's about 60-70 gallons of water in the tank (not sure if this makes a difference or not). I have a plan in the works for a bigger system (150-180gal) that I would like to be able to transfer any new skimmer to. I have heard alot of good things about the Euro Reef Skimmers, I have heard mixed reviews about remora's and I've seen alot of things about DIY...but i definately don't think i'm there yet......lol

I sometimes think I ask too many questions but I wouldn't know most of what i do if i hadn't ask lots of questions:):)

1. Test kits - I use all of the test kits available from elos. (Ph, Calcium, Iodine, KH, NH4, NH3, NO3, NO2, PO4) I also have test kits from Salifert of all of the previous, in addition i have a copper test kit, a dissolved oxygen test kit, ammonia test, silicate, boron and strontium. The last three i did not buy they were given to me as an apology for a messed up online order. I find most test kits okay...the all in one box sets are fine for starting out, but i've found the elos and salifert a little more easy to interpret the results.
2. Skimmers - this get harder because you are treading a fine line between name, build quality, new technology vs old etc. I recently looked into this in more depth as i needed to get a skimmer (ended up getting three, all euro-reefs - Price was right) I like the KZ Skimmers but the price is wrong, as well as the bubblekings, the bubblemasters i liked as well but i found trying to order one and trying to get a hold of ati was ludirously hard so i gave up (was told their cus. serv. was horrible, and it is) A lot of people are recomending octopus skimmers...xtreme something or other. Again it was a hassle to get one so i gave up :) Mostly what i hear about euroreef is older technology, very wasteful energy wise pumps. That sort of thing. I like mine, i would recomend them. People still buy ASM's same performance as a euro-reef i've heard but cheaper. H&S seems nice, but waaay to pricey for me. Deltecs are always bought as well as the PM Bullets. I can only offer advice on the euro-reefs as the only other skimmers i used are so dated or diy'd it would be no use. I liked the picture at least of the foaminator 5000(?) seemed big...easy to impress people when they come over :)

I do like my euro-reefs but i think if i did not find them used i would try asm if going new. There are many many opinions on skimmers and no real consesus other than you need one...and even that is questioned by some.

One other aspect to remember with regards to skimmers is if you want an in-sump or external skimmer. OR Hang on back type...with a sump i doubt it unless room is a question. Each in-sump skimmer also requires a certain footprint (room in sump) and a certain water level in the sump to operate at peak effiency. So a Automatic top off or at least diligence in topping off helps. External skimmers are usually built tougher, require feed pumps and are more expensive than in-sumps. One other note...some of the better built/quality etc pumps use clear pvc as opposed to cell cast acrylic or extruded acrylic...i like this idea better, but the ones i wanted were out of my price range.

[kwirky]

...
Questions: :question:

1. What test kits for which tests do people use??
I've been thinking of starting to do my own testing at home. ... So which brand names or test kits, products does everyone use??

2. Skimmers options. What's a good skimmer for 100 - 150gal????
... I have a plan in the works for a bigger system (150-180gal) that I would like to be able to transfer any new skimmer to.

I sometimes think I ask too many questions but I wouldn't know most of what i do if i hadn't ask lots of questions:):)

1. I prefer Salifert kits for nitrate, calcium, and magnesium. My Elos kit for KH is just fine (each drop measures 1 dKH) and I sometimes use my Elos pH kit. For ammonia I think my aquarium pharmeceuticals is accurate enough (goes down to 0.25ppm).

2. The euroreefs are very good mid-range skimmers. I'd recommend the RS-180 if you're possibly upgrading tanks later. I wouldn't consider displaced water volume, but rather fish-load on the skimmer. Generally a large tank is stocked with more fish than a little tank no matter how much rock is inside. Larger skimmers can then help with the bioload. But I'm not condoning overstocking your tank either.

[Reefmaster08]

Change 20% of the water volume in your tank every two weeks no matter what, use ro/di water use kent part a/b 2 times a week have at least 5 watts per gallon of good quality lighting like t5-mh, clean your filters 2 times a week with bleach and make sure it has no bleach on it when it goes back into the tank.

I run a protein skimmer its a must.
I also have a uv sterilizer light it does alot of good.
Def get a refugium and put rock rubble, coco pods, cheato, snails, live sand & a ok light run it when your sleeping.
Filter Sump is the only way to go.
Maxi jet power heads a must for good water flow.
check your levels once a week.
Dont clutter your tank with alot of fish (Nitrate factor)
Use very little live sand less poo.
Get a mag glass cleaner.
Fiji live rock imo.

If any body has questions let me know.

Brian.

:mrgreen:

[Myka]

^ Yessir! :lol:

[ron101]

I found the recommendations overly rigid.

[Reefmaster08]

:mrgreen:

[UnderWorldAquatics]

Where is the very old thread about no water changes and no skimmers? it had great discussions! and I dont want to type out another 4 page explanation...;)

[digital-audiophile]

Change 20% of the water volume in your tank every two weeks no matter what, use ro/di water use kent part a/b 2 times a week have at least 5 watts per gallon of good quality lighting like t5-mh, clean your filters 2 times a week with bleach and make sure it has no bleach on it when it goes back into the tank.

I run a protein skimmer its a must.
I also have a uv sterilizer light it does alot of good.
Def get a refugium and put rock rubble, coco pods, cheato, snails, live sand & a ok light run it when your sleeping.
Filter Sump is the only way to go.
Maxi jet power heads a must for good water flow.
check your levels once a week.
Dont clutter your tank with alot of fish (Nitrate factor)
Use very little live sand less poo.
Get a mag glass cleaner.
Fiji live rock imo.

If any body has questions let me know.

Brian.

:mrgreen:


My two cents in response to a few points :)

1. The "watts per gallon" rule is out dated
2. UV sterlizer is not always great ... a no-go if you are running zeo
3. There are much better power heads out there than maxi-jets (for the record I use a maxijet as my water change salt mixer :p)

[Reefmaster08]

My two cents in response to a few points :)

1. The "watts per gallon" rule is out dated
2. UV sterlizer is not always great ... a no-go if you are running zeo
3. There are much better power heads out there than maxi-jets (for the record I use a maxijet as my water change salt mixer :p)

You want a cookie ?
:biggrin:

[StirCrazy]

1. The "watts per gallon" rule is out dated


damn how did I miss that, good thing I did thought or it would have been a extra long post..

just for everyones info as there are probably a lot of people reading this the watts/gal rule should not be used.. better off to forget you ever heard it as it correlates to absolutely nothing except the exact same types of bulbs on the exact same size of tank which you can imagine is useless. if you want the big long explanation I will find one of my old ones and repost it or you can just search my name and watt/gal and you will probably find me repeating myself over and over.:mrgreen:

Steve

[Myka]

^ LOL! I've heard the speech!

Hey! I use MJs in my tank!!! They work well to blast my SPS and my Gorg. But I also use them for stirring water...lol.

What's with the attitude Reefmaster08? We are Canadians (hence CANreef), we don't like hostilities. As an American I could see how you may be confused by this. :p

I'm kidding!


.....kind of.....

[Matt]

damn how did I miss that, good thing I did thought or it would have been a extra long post..

just for everyones info as there are probably a lot of people reading this the watts/gal rule should not be used.. better off to forget you ever heard it as it correlates to absolutely nothing except the exact same types of bulbs on the exact same size of tank which you can imagine is useless. if you want the big long explanation I will find one of my old ones and repost it or you can just search my name and watt/gal and you will probably find me repeating myself over and over.:mrgreen:

SteveThe short explanation is "How would a coral know how many gallons of water it was in to determine its light requirements?"

[Reefmaster08]

Every one is going to have there own way of doing things this is mine i have 75g & 125g running for years like a charm.

This will be the last post for me in this thread.

I was just trying to help, im new to the board and didnt want people to think i was here just to buy frags.

:usa

[digital-audiophile]

You can buy frags from us just as easily as we can buy them from you :p

No harm no foul, everyone has their own opinions, all I'm suggesting is that methods and products in the hobby seem to change quickly andthat if you cling on to the past you get left behind.


ps.. where is my cookie?

[Myka]

Every one is going to have there own way of doing things this is mine i have 75g & 125g running for years like a charm.

This will be the last post for me in this thread.

I was just trying to help, im new to the board and didnt want people to think i was here just to buy frags.

:usa

It was the way you chose to express yourself. You came across very "my way or the highway". There's a million different ways to keep reef tanks, and many ways work just as well as eachother, and many ways will only work for a small group of people. If you keep that in mind, there will be no issue. There is no such thing as "my way or the highway" with reef tanks. There are A LOT of similarities in the tanks that "win" Tank of the Month, but there are also a lot of differences. What works for one person may or may not work for another...depending what exactly it is.

[Whatigot]

Not to mention that not every reefer is after creating the ultimate living microcosm regardless of cost or blood, sweat and tears involved.
I see a lot of reefs that are beautiful that people are very proud of and yet remain simplistic in their components.
There is definitely a prevailant attitude in this hobby that the more money you've spent, the better off your reef will be and the funny thing is that this is a mentality that creates and propogates itself, I'm amazed at times at how much influence the capital market and rampant consumerism can have on otherwise stable minds.

Spend lots of money and feel good about your reef because you have spent as much money on it as you possibly could and have everything looked after by your electric monitors and wallet or adversely, try maintaining a reef with very little technological aid and bust your *** making it work.
You can always try a mix of both of these methods as well and just see what works for your preferred level of spending and man hours....

[StirCrazy]

The short explanation is "How would a coral know how many gallons of water it was in to determine its light requirements?"

nope not even close:mrgreen:

[Myka]

Not to mention that not every reefer is after creating the ultimate living microcosm regardless of cost or blood, sweat and tears involved.
I see a lot of reefs that are beautiful that people are very proud of and yet remain simplistic in their components.
There is definitely a prevailant attitude in this hobby that the more money you've spent, the better off your reef will be and the funny thing is that this is a mentality that creates and propogates itself, I'm amazed at times at how much influence the capital market and rampant consumerism can have on otherwise stable minds.

Spend lots of money and feel good about your reef because you have spent as much money on it as you possibly could and have everything looked after by your electric monitors and wallet or adversely, try maintaining a reef with very little technological aid and bust your *** making it work.
You can always try a mix of both of these methods as well and just see what works for your preferred level of spending and man hours....


Well you said that a lot better than me...

[Samw]

I haven't done a water change in about 8 months and I'm way overstocked. So far so good. My tank has never been better. I think it has to do with additives that I started using last year. Hope my luck continues. I keep wanting to do a water change but I'm lazy and my corals and fish haven't complained yet.

[Lance]

This is a method of a friend of mine, who has been in the hobby for years. I'm using it and it seems to work pretty well. I do it every 2 weeks.

- turn off all pumps, powerheads, skimmer, etc.
- using a diatom filter with an extension on the exhaust, blow detritus, etc
up into the water
- run the diatom filter for about 1 hour, until water is very clear
- perform a 20% water change
- test all parameters, as diatom filters take out some good stuff as well
- turn on pumps, etc.

Diatom Filters get the water nice and clear. Also has the benefit of filtering any parasites from the tank.

What do you think?

[Whatigot]

having no experience with diatom filters, this seems like a lot of work for what could essentially be accomplished with a good siphoning/waterchange?

[Lance]

having no experience with diatom filters, this seems like a lot of work for what could essentially be accomplished with a good siphoning/waterchange?

No, They're not a lot of work. It is actually easier than siphoning by hand. Just set in on the floor, hang the exhaust and intake tubes into the tank and turn it on. I've used them for years on FW tanks and they work great. Many LFS use them to quickly clean the tanks. I figure if I'm doing a water change anyway, why not clean the water real well.

[super7]

At the pet stores I have worked at I have always just done watetr changes. Lance your way would work but it is doing the same thing as a good syphoning and a good syphoning is a lot quicker than using a diatom then a water change.
Super7

[Oscar]

I just got my tank up and running 1 week ago. I have LR LS and 2 hermits to knock back the hair algae.

Other than a slightly elevated phosphate level and a ph of 7.8 my other parameters are good. Should I already be starting water changes or wait a bit?

[Myka]

^ Keep your tanks lights off for the first month or so. I'd wait until the cycle is over (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate <5ppm) before doing any waterchanges. At which time I like to do a 50% waterchange.

[Oscar]

^ Keep your tanks lights off for the first month or so. I'd wait until the cycle is over (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate <5ppm) before doing any waterchanges. At which time I like to do a 50% waterchange.

Could my cycle may be over already? Although the tank has only been set up since last Saturday I had well cured live rock in my rubbermaid tub for almost 2 weeks. I have been turning on the halide for about 2 hours each evening just so I could gaze at the rock and watch the hermits at work.

I will keep testing to see what happens.

[i2ik]

I used to have an 180G tank, mainly SPS and a few LPS. It was well stock with fishes and i was doing no water change. Had a big skimmer on that tank, a small refugium and all seem to be doing fine. The tank was up for 2 years, done 1 water change during those 2 years. All the fishes was healthy and fat. The corals was growing fast looks ok too! In the end of the 2 years, i started having a really big problem with algea! None of my snails would eat it and the spreading time was crazy fast! I tried to get rid of that algea with no success, my nitrate level was high and could not go down with even all the water changes and the AZ No3 that i bought did nothing!

Now having my new tank up and running, i learned something from my previous tank. Doing water changes not also bring back some elements, its also a prevention. The colors of the corals also seem more vibrant and the polyps extention after each water change is impressive! A tank could survive without water change, but after a while, you might come by some problem and then, that is really hard to get out of it.

Please note this is my personal opinion on my own experience :)

[bv_reefer]

i do one every 3-4 days, about 15% each time, and the tanks doing great, mind you i'm skimmerless. i dose alot of supplements about twice a week though to pay up for the lost trace elements

[Richard_Dicosimo]

i think if i was doing a water change every 3-4 days i would get rid of my tank lol, you must be very dedicated.

Richard

[bv_reefer]

i think if i was doing a water change every 3-4 days i would get rid of my tank lol, you must be very dedicated.

Richard used to do one every week, but now i switched from mixed reef to sps growout/fragtank, so gotta keep up with water quality